The end of IT jobs as we know them.

[LordMagnusKain]

http://www.cioinsight.com/article2/0,1397,1819113,00.asp

I think this is a rather insightful look at the future of the use of my degree.

Although I believe i'm better of than CS majors, who will loose there jobs to the low-cost well-educated Indian, we have more job security as CIS is more of a service job.

The problem is that CIS is like Radio Information Systems was in the 50s. It?s turning into something that involves a replaceable black-box and a few high-level administrators. The competitive advantage is no longer in implementing these systems, but in finding ways to most efficiently reduce the manpower needed.

time to retrain and i'm not even out of school.

 

[StageLeft]

Did you provide the right link? I see him just talking about trimming IT budgets by consolidating and reusing and things of that nature...

IT is not over, and won't be. The outsourcing scare is already proving to be overblown. We've been hearing about it for years, and guess what? IT is easier to find a job in now than it was three years ago. It's sorting itself out with jobs.

I think you're right about IS though because it relies more on client interactions and generic business, and these are always assets.

 

[cKGunslinger]

CS major + Defense Contractor employer --> no foreign outsoucing of my job, buddy

 

[shurato]

Great, ruin my day... I'm in the process of getting a new IT job... leaving my current IT position which I don't like... poop.

 

[Train]

Assuming the world of programming is confined to its current platforms, yes Indian labor is a huge threat. But there are lots of new areas opening up that will keep demand high.

Mobile Devices - these arent just cell phones anymore, youve got Phone/Camera/Mp3 players/GPS/game systems/PDA's, etc all merging together, basically becoming as fully functional as desktop computers. These will require applications, as well as web sites and web services targetted at these platforms.

Media Centers - Computers are moving off the desk and into the living room, your DVD, VCR, Cable Box, Xbox/Playstation, and Even your TV are merging into a single entity, and gaining broadband access, this expands the computer market to a lot of people who dont normally use computers. These systems will have specialized operating systems to manage movies, games, music, etc. These systems will also be able to communicate with traditional computers. These specialized systems will also need a lot of new/customized software.

Embedded Software - The logic that controls your microwave, dishwasher, and even the electronic components of your car, are no longer confined to the small groups of highly specialized, super geeky, embedded programmers. These controls are becoming more mainstream as far as thier programming. They will also be interacting with other systems around the house, because of this, thier data structures will be forced into more standardized formats. Look for embedded programming to finnaly break out of its "niche" heritage.

 

[judasmachine]

Originally posted by: cKGunslinger
CS major + Defense Contractor employer --> no foreign outsoucing of my job, buddy

My little brother works for a big defense contractor, and only spent 4 years in the navy (under clinton) to get the job. he's a network specialist, and software guy. He says the same thing all the time, but he's going to school now to keep the promotion they gave him.

 

[Infohawk]

Originally posted by: judasmachine

Originally posted by: cKGunslinger
CS major + Defense Contractor employer --> no foreign outsoucing of my job, buddy

My little brother works for a big defense contractor, and only spent 4 years in the navy (under clinton) to get the job. he's a network specialist, and software guy. He says the same thing all the time, but he's going to school now to keep the promotion they gave him.

Too bad these jobs are just money sinks for the rest of us... Sure, we need some defense spending but nothing like the current levels.

 

[judasmachine]

Originally posted by: Infohawk

Originally posted by: judasmachine

Originally posted by: cKGunslinger
CS major + Defense Contractor employer --> no foreign outsoucing of my job, buddy

My little brother works for a big defense contractor, and only spent 4 years in the navy (under clinton) to get the job. he's a network specialist, and software guy. He says the same thing all the time, but he's going to school now to keep the promotion they gave him.

Too bad these jobs are just money sinks for the rest of us... Sure, we need some defense spending but nothing like the current levels.

Oh yeah man. Even my brother takes it kind of hard. He knows what his work is used for.

 

[Genx87]

One thing about being more on the hardware side of the industry is I dont know anybody who can physically work on a machine from 14,000 miles away

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: Genx87
One thing about being more on the hardware side of the industry is I dont know anybody who can physically work on a machine from 14,000 miles away

Heh, that's a good point. Actually, that's true of many of the more highly skilled computer jobs (although hardware is even better). Being a relativly unskilled code monkey is not a very safe field at the moment.

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: judasmachine

Originally posted by: Infohawk

Originally posted by: judasmachine

Originally posted by: cKGunslinger
CS major + Defense Contractor employer --> no foreign outsoucing of my job, buddy

My little brother works for a big defense contractor, and only spent 4 years in the navy (under clinton) to get the job. he's a network specialist, and software guy. He says the same thing all the time, but he's going to school now to keep the promotion they gave him.

Too bad these jobs are just money sinks for the rest of us... Sure, we need some defense spending but nothing like the current levels.

Oh yeah man. Even my brother takes it kind of hard. He knows what his work is used for.

I don't know though, computer spending (especially in security areas) is something I have no problem with in the government. They really need more resources in that area, I think. Especially compared to everything else they spend money on.

 

[irwincur]

Which is why demand for IT workers increases every year and we have hardly dented the 'computer revolution'. Think of computer people more as mechanics. Cars have been around for a long time, and we still need people to work on them.

 

[shurato]

Originally posted by: Genx87
One thing about being more on the hardware side of the industry is I dont know anybody who can physically work on a machine from 14,000 miles away

Good point.. I feel better now

 

[shira]

I work for a large software firm, and we use a combination of domestic and outsourced labor. I work directly with some of our Bangalore help. All I can say is that it's no panacea. The time difference is a real problem, and I spend significant time providing technical oversight. But their contribution is real and significant, and I benefit from it. On the other hand, unless a whole project can be assigned to just let them run with it (not even remotely on the horizen for my company), there's no way we could get by without significant stateside labor.

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: shira
I work for a large software firm, and we use a combination of domestic and outsourced labor. I work directly with some of our Bangalore help. All I can say is that it's no panacea. The time difference is a real problem, and I spend significant time providing technical oversight. But their contribution is real and significant, and I benefit from it. On the other hand, unless a whole project can be assigned to just let them run with it (not even remotely on the horizen for my company), there's no way we could get by without significant stateside labor.

I don't know about the people you've dealt with, but from what I've seen, Americans are still better at a lot of the creative, design and planning stuff. Now I believe that before long other countries will start to catch up there, but for right now only the lower level jobs seem to be threatened.

 

[ValuedCustomer]

I wouldn't call it outsourcing but its hard not to notice that easily 75+% of the developers in the data/dev center I work in are Indian or Pakistani. Most are fresh off the boat.. so to speak. - It's also hard not to notice that there are 0 Indians or Pakistanis working on the network admin/eng/storage side. - This is my first position in a non-local, start-up so I haven't had a lot of exposure to the global/multi-national corporate side (like I do now) but I'm curious, is this sort of racial/nationality variegation typical?

 

[irwincur]

A side note. These so called Indian universities are hardly up to caliber - think of them as technical schools. Even then they are lacking the one thing that major first world educations include - the Liberal Arts curriculum. Yes, it is a pain in the a$$ but it makes graduates much more well rounded. This is one of the key reasons why University grads are held to be better job candidates than technical school grads.

I had a professor explain it to me this way a long time ago. College is not about learning specifics, it is about learning theory and applying it in current situations. Doing this, you will be more capable in the future to evolve your skill set to suit job needs. Technical schools teach only specifics and no theory, leaving your future as secure as the future of the one field that you studied.

 

[KidViciou$]

what makes u think a CS major couldn't do the job of an IS major? because we didn't spend an entire semester studying the waterfall method??? BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: LordMagnusKain
Topic Title: The end of IT jobs as we know them.

http://www.cioinsight.com/article2/0,1397,1819113,00.asp

I think this is a rather insightful look at the future of the use of my degree.

Although I believe i'm better of than CS majors, who will loose there jobs to the low-cost well-educated Indian, we have more job security as CIS is more of a service job.

The problem is that CIS is like Radio Information Systems was in the 50s. It?s turning into something that involves a replaceable black-box and a few high-level administrators. The competitive advantage is no longer in implementing these systems, but in finding ways to most efficiently reduce the manpower needed.

time to retrain and i'm not even out of school.

Nothing new here. I'm about to be replaced by one Tech Center that will handle the whole Country. It is run by Foreigners that speak Covenience Store English.

 

[KidViciou$]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: LordMagnusKain
Topic Title: The end of IT jobs as we know them.

http://www.cioinsight.com/article2/0,1397,1819113,00.asp

I think this is a rather insightful look at the future of the use of my degree.

Although I believe i'm better of than CS majors, who will loose there jobs to the low-cost well-educated Indian, we have more job security as CIS is more of a service job.

The problem is that CIS is like Radio Information Systems was in the 50s. It?s turning into something that involves a replaceable black-box and a few high-level administrators. The competitive advantage is no longer in implementing these systems, but in finding ways to most efficiently reduce the manpower needed.

time to retrain and i'm not even out of school.

Nothing new here. I'm about to be replaced by one Tech Center that will handle the whole Country. It is run by Foreigners that speak Covenience Store English.

nm, republicans are in favor of outsourcing afaik, so my joke doesn't work

 

[tontod]

Originally posted by: irwincur
A side note. These so called Indian universities are hardly up to caliber - think of them as technical schools. Even then they are lacking the one thing that major first world educations include - the Liberal Arts curriculum. Yes, it is a pain in the a$$ but it makes graduates much more well rounded. This is one of the key reasons why University grads are held to be better job candidates than technical school grads.

I had a professor explain it to me this way a long time ago. College is not about learning specifics, it is about learning theory and applying it in current situations. Doing this, you will be more capable in the future to evolve your skill set to suit job needs. Technical schools teach only specifics and no theory, leaving your future as secure as the future of the one field that you studied.

Actually, you are incorrect. A top tier school in India like an IIT (Indian Institute of Technology) is at par or even above a place like MIT. Dont let the name Technology fool you. Going by your logic, MIT is not that good?

 

[alent1234]

I work in IT and the reason people hire us is to save money and not to have an army of people hovering around a stack of boxes with flashing lights. I think as a whole the industry is growing. Some jobs may be dissappearing because of productivity improvements, but others are opening up.

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: tontod

Originally posted by: irwincur
A side note. These so called Indian universities are hardly up to caliber - think of them as technical schools. Even then they are lacking the one thing that major first world educations include - the Liberal Arts curriculum. Yes, it is a pain in the a$$ but it makes graduates much more well rounded. This is one of the key reasons why University grads are held to be better job candidates than technical school grads.

I had a professor explain it to me this way a long time ago. College is not about learning specifics, it is about learning theory and applying it in current situations. Doing this, you will be more capable in the future to evolve your skill set to suit job needs. Technical schools teach only specifics and no theory, leaving your future as secure as the future of the one field that you studied.

Actually, you are incorrect. A top tier school in India like an IIT (Indian Institute of Technology) is at par or even above a place like MIT. Dont let the name Technology fool you. Going by your logic, MIT is not that good?

Heh, you wish. That is the propaganda, but I've met people from MIT and people from IIT, and there is no comparison. Maybe in terms of the facts they know, but education (and job performance) is not about knowing a lot of facts, like irwincur said, it's about theory and application.

Let's be serious for the moment. It took us years and years to build up our college level schools to the high standard they are today. There is no way another country, no matter how smart they are, can beat that in a matter of a few years. Indians are not supermen, they have to go throug the same development we did when the US first got into the tech market. There is a reason most of the work being done over there is low level stuff.

 

[LordMagnusKain]

Originally posted by: alent1234
I work in IT and the reason people hire us is to save money and not to have an army of people hovering around a stack of boxes with flashing lights. I think as a whole the industry is growing. Some jobs may be dissappearing because of productivity improvements, but others are opening up.

the same could have been said in the 50s of radio techs. What happens when the connectivity is as far along as it needs to be for optimal productivity,

 

[tontod]

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: tontod

Originally posted by: irwincur
A side note. These so called Indian universities are hardly up to caliber - think of them as technical schools. Even then they are lacking the one thing that major first world educations include - the Liberal Arts curriculum. Yes, it is a pain in the a$$ but it makes graduates much more well rounded. This is one of the key reasons why University grads are held to be better job candidates than technical school grads.

I had a professor explain it to me this way a long time ago. College is not about learning specifics, it is about learning theory and applying it in current situations. Doing this, you will be more capable in the future to evolve your skill set to suit job needs. Technical schools teach only specifics and no theory, leaving your future as secure as the future of the one field that you studied.

Actually, you are incorrect. A top tier school in India like an IIT (Indian Institute of Technology) is at par or even above a place like MIT. Dont let the name Technology fool you. Going by your logic, MIT is not that good?

Heh, you wish. That is the propaganda, but I've met people from MIT and people from IIT, and there is no comparison. Maybe in terms of the facts they know, but education (and job performance) is not about knowing a lot of facts, like irwincur said, it's about theory and application.

Let's be serious for the moment. It took us years and years to build up our college level schools to the high standard they are today. There is no way another country, no matter how smart they are, can beat that in a matter of a few years. Indians are not supermen, they have to go throug the same development we did when the US first got into the tech market. There is a reason most of the work being done over there is low level stuff.

Do you know anyone that went there? IIT, though not as old as MIT has been around some time, its only a matter of time before higher level jobs are shipped there.