The end of all censorship memo.cash

[Dr. Zaus]

Hi,

I've known for a while that the block chain COULD be used to end all censorship... now it HAS been used to end all censorship.

https://memo.cash/

This web page is just an interface with the block chain. On the block chain nothing can be destroyed or deleted. All information posted to this web page will forever, and irrevocably, be accessible to everyone everywhere any time.

Uploading to the block chain requires paying a fee, so it's not free, at today's price for bch it costs about 1c per tweet, $1.30 to upload an HD picture and about 8k to upload a 90min 1080p movie.

So what do you think of this new world we've created? What are the consequences of eliminating censorship?

 

[WelshBloke]

All information posted to this web page will forever, and irrevocably, be accessible to everyone everywhere any time.

*snip*
So what do you think of this new world we've created? What are the consequences of eliminating censorship?

I think that the consequences there will be that that web page gets filled with shit posts, 'clever' memes, and teenagers thinking that they are being edgy at best. At worst it gets filled with racism and child porn.

 

[Dr. Zaus]

I think that the consequences there will be that that web page gets filled with shit posts, 'clever' memes, and teenagers thinking that they are being edgy at best. At worst it gets filled with racism and child porn.

Right! 4 chan without boundaries.

Now consider the fact that this web page can never be taken down and never censored in any way.

Not because you can't take down memo.cash, but because memo.cash is only an interface for the block chain, which is the data base storing all this info, a database that is unalterable, a data base accessible with any interface using the same protocols.

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

It's an idea right up there with pet rocks and bottled water. Nothing says civilization like garbage preserved forever.

 

[Dr. Zaus]

It's an idea right up there with pet rocks and bottled water. Nothing says civilization like garbage preserved forever.

Pet rocks never held the formula for bathtub chem weapons...

 

[WelshBloke]

Now consider the fact that this web page can never be taken down and never censored in any way.

Well it can just be deleted though, and given the questionable content that'll invariably end up in it it'll probably be illegal to host or even keep a copy of.

 

[pete6032]

Does this rely on people running nodes? If so, if this gets filled with crap or questionable material people will be less likely to run nodes.

Also if this relies on people running nodes them it really isn't "forever."

 

[Red Squirrel]

Funny I was kinda thinking a while back that the blockchain could be used for some sort of forum type interface where stuff can't be censored. Though I don't know if blockchain is truly the right approach. Some kind of p2p meshnet where data is backed up across nodes (but not all) is probably more scalable. Basically something like torrents, but decentralized. The more popular a piece of data is (it can be a post, or a file) the more nodes it ends up getting hosted to. The only way to actually delete something would be for node operators to agree to delete it all from their nodes before it spreads to others. So this would still give a certain amount of control to prevent things that most of humanity agrees is bad, like child porn.

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

Pet rocks never held the formula for bathtub chem weapons...

I think you made my point.

 

[Dr. Zaus]

Well it can just be deleted though, and given the questionable content that'll invariably end up in it it'll probably be illegal to host or even keep a copy of.

You have misunderstood the block chain then.

Every single computer that mines BCH is holding every single thing that web page presents. The web page is just a presentation protocol for some of the data in the BCH block chain. The block chain can never be altered or deleted (without destroying BCH).

No node is required, every miner has a full and perfect copy of all the data. One could create a client that doesn't require any web server at all to display or upload this data. The back end is a database everyone, everywhere, can access all of, any time.

China, for example, could never censor this data. Terrorists could never be censored. Military coordination could occur without any chance of a wrong order getting in; and as long as internet access exists, the data would get through.

Funny I was kinda thinking a while back that the blockchain could be used for some sort of forum type interface where stuff can't be censored. Though I don't know if blockchain is truly the right approach. Some kind of p2p meshnet where data is backed up across nodes (but not all) is probably more scalable. Basically something like torrents, but decentralized. The more popular a piece of data is (it can be a post, or a file) the more nodes it ends up getting hosted to. The only way to actually delete something would be for node operators to agree to delete it all from their nodes before it spreads to others. So this would still give a certain amount of control to prevent things that most of humanity agrees is bad, like child porn.

Using the BitCoin block chain means, that unlike a swarm for torrents, lots of legitimate data is also being held on the servers AND shutting them down would destroy billions of dollars of wealth unrelated to the data stored.

I agree, your idea is more scalable; but this is billions of dollars of other activity that can't be distinguished between this and legitimate transactions.

 

[WelshBloke]

You have misunderstood the block chain then.

Every single computer that mines BCH is holding every single thing that web page presents. The web page is just a presentation protocol for some of the data in the BCH block chain. The block chain can never be altered or deleted (without destroying BCH).

Hold on then.
If anyone can write anything to the block chain how is any data valid? You could just swamp any data there with a bunch of similar data.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

It's an idea right up there with pet rocks and bottled water. Nothing says civilization like garbage preserved forever.

so just out of curiosity, do you drink your water everyday out of your garden hose or something? Just curious, no judgement - just wondering if people still did that.

 

[Dr. Zaus]

Hold on then.
If anyone can write anything to the block chain how is any data valid? You could just swamp any data there with a bunch of similar data.

That's what all the hashing is for.

Every single computer works together to make sure that the private key used to upload data goes with the public key it is claiming. Right now security can only be broken by exceeding 15,000,000 TERA HASHES

https://blockchain.info/charts/hash-rate

I remember how I felt when this all made sense to me... I realized this would happen, I realized what we had done... I was aghast, I didn't want to believe it.

But it's true.

 

[DaveSimmons]

The domain and servers could easily be taken over by some government, even if the blockchain still exists somewhere.

The blockchain can't be edited but it could easily be abandoned and all copies discarded.

The value of a tweet or facebook post or forum post comes from people being able to easily find the content, which they will not be able to do in a scrambled mishmash of data stored in a chain.

So it's not really much of a forever home.

 

[Dr. Zaus]

The domain and servers could easily be taken over by some government, even if the blockchain still exists somewhere.

The blockchain can't be edited but it could easily be abandoned and all copies discarded.

The value of a tweet or facebook post or forum post comes from people being able to easily find the content, which they will not be able to do in a scrambled mishmash of data stored in a chain.

So it's not really much of a forever home.

Except that anyone could run a little Java applet and access the data any time.

 

[WelshBloke]

That's what all the hashing is for.

Every single computer works together to make sure that the private key used to upload data goes with the public key it is claiming. Right now security can only be broken by exceeding 15,000,000 TERA HASHES

https://blockchain.info/charts/hash-rate

I remember how I felt when this all made sense to me... I realized this would happen, I realized what we had done... I was aghast, I didn't want to believe it.

But it's true.

I still dont get this.
If anyone can write to it what's to stop me writing petabytes of data to it and making it unusable? And if only some people are able to write to it why would they post questionable material to it if it's a perfect record of them doing this?

 

[DaveSimmons]

Except that anyone could run a little Java applet and access the data any time.

Millions of people are not going to bother installing a Java applet and then try to sort through an un-ordered mess of tweets, blog posts, images, podcasts, movies, text docs, PDFs, etc.

The content may theoretically be there, but almost no one will actually see it.

Contrast that to the the "censored" sites like Facebook and Twitter -- the content is organized, linked, searchable and offered to everyone that the site thinks might want it.

That's why the racists, fascists, and conspiracy nutters are so incensed by not being able to spew on those sites when they can still run a $5/month website with all the offensive content that they want. They want new victims for their alternative facts, not just to post for the hardcore faithful.

 

[Dr. Zaus]

Millions of people are not going to bother installing a Java applet and then try to sort through an un-ordered mess of tweets, blog posts, images, podcasts, movies, text docs, PDFs, etc.

The content may theoretically be there, but almost no one will actually see it.

Contrast that to the the "censored" sites like Facebook and Twitter -- the content is organized, linked, searchable and offered to everyone that the site thinks might want it.

That's why the racists, fascists, and conspiracy nutters are so incensed by not being able to spew on those sites when they can still run a $5/month website with all the offensive content that they want. They want new victims for their alternative facts, not just to post for the hardcore faithful.

I'm not disagreeing. But people selling/accessing, drugs, bath tub chemical weapons, and videos of bums fighting to the death for bit-coin, are all going to now have a completely unalterable, untraceable, forum.

I still dont get this.
If anyone can write to it what's to stop me writing petabytes of data to it and making it unusable? And if only some people are able to write to it why would they post questionable material to it if it's a perfect record of them doing this?

The only limit right now is that it costs a about .00000300 bch to post 80 characters.

The total system is limited to 5mb every 10 min; in May it'll go to 32mb, and the plan is eventually to bring it up from there.

 

[ultimatebob]

Pet rocks never held the formula for bathtub chem weapons...

You say that like it's a good thing. As it is now, people are struggling to convince governments not to ban cryptocurrency technology in certain nations who are concerned (and rightfully so) the the only people really using it are drug dealers and money launderers. Now you get to add terrorists, software pirates, child porn fans sending darkweb links to each other to that list.

The people developing this tech better keep a low profile, or their homes are going to get raided and they'll get charged for aiding criminals with information sharing.

 

[Dr. Zaus]

You say that like it's a good thing. As it is now, people are struggling to convince governments not to ban cryptocurrency technology in certain nations who are concerned (and rightfully so) the the only people really using it are drug dealers and money launderers. Now you get to add terrorists, software pirates, child porn fans sending darkweb links to each other to that list.

The people developing this tech better keep a low profile, or their homes are going to get raided and they'll get charged for aiding criminals with information sharing.

I want to be clear: I’m afraid, I’m scared as hell, I know that even after that raid the public execution will do nothing to stop what the block chain has unleashed on society.

My question is not “is it good” that’s like asking “is fire good” the question is “what to we do now that this is a fact.”

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

so just out of curiosity, do you drink your water everyday out of your garden hose or something? Just curious, no judgement - just wondering if people still did that.

The majority of people in the US have perfectly fine water coming right out of their faucets. My reference was to a similar grab for cash under the guise of free speech/lack of censorship.

 

[pete6032]

This is going to be the new "name a star after your wife" present.

Honey, for our anniversary I had our names and wedding date written to memo.cash. I love you so much!

 

[Skunk-Works]

Nothing get preserved forever on a hard drive that can be taken out with an EMP. You need to backup your data to M-disk which apparently lasts a 1,000 years.

 

[Dr. Zaus]

Nothing get preserved forever on a hard drive that can be taken out with an EMP. You need to backup your data to M-disk which apparently lasts a 1,000 years.

loss of this data would required a world wide EMP, as 1) the full block chain is mirrored on every moner’s hard driveand 2) taking out even 99% of the block chain miners instances will lead to others coming back online and mirroring it.

 

[ultimatebob]

It doesn't take anything as dramatic as an EMP to stop Bitcoin transactions. All you really need to do is get the telcos to block traffic on the default ports that it uses.

Sure, you can change the port that Bitcoin uses or attempt to cover your tracks with a VPN, but a coordinated attack from the a major telco provider like the likes of a Comcast or a Verizon would probably be enough to cause a panic sale of cryptocurrency around the world.