The election and what really happened.

Sep 29, 2004
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OK, this should open some eyes and also help people understand why it was so close. You will also see why Hillary is an excelent candidate for Pres or VP in 2008. Just look at where she is from. She might get all of those states that went red this year. Please take note that this map helps explain why Clinton won in a landslide.

Beyond Red and Blue

Compare that to:
Nation wide county election map

Look at the California coast for an example of similarities. The reason Kerry lost was greatly due to the localities from which they originate.
 

CaptnKirk

Lifer
Jul 25, 2002
10,053
0
71
This is what actually won the election for Bush, no question about it

Washington Post <CLIP>

As the presidential race was heating up in June and July, a pair of leaked documents showed that the Bush-Cheney reelection campaign was urging Christian supporters to turn over their church directories and was seeking to identify "friendly congregations" in battleground states.

Those revelations produced a flurry of accusations that the Bush campaign was leading churches to violate laws against partisan activities by tax-exempt organizations, and even some of the White House's closest religious allies said the campaign had gone too far.

But the untold story of the 2004 election, according to national religious leaders and grass-roots activists, is that evangelical Christian groups were often more aggressive and sometimes better organized on the ground than the Bush campaign. The White House struggled to stay abreast of the Christian right and consulted with the movement's leaders in weekly conference calls. But in many respects, Christian activists led the charge that GOP operatives followed and capitalized upon.

This was particularly true of the same-sex marriage issue. One of the most successful tactics of social conservatives -- the ballot referendums against same-sex marriage in 13 states -- bubbled up from below and initially met resistance from White House aides, Christian leaders said.

In dozens of interviews since the election, grass-roots activists in Ohio, Michigan and Florida credited President Bush's chief political adviser, Karl Rove, with setting a clear goal that became a mantra among conservatives: To win, Bush had to draw 4 million more evangelicals to the polls than he did in 2000. But they also described a mobilization of evangelical Protestants and conservative Roman Catholics that took off under its own power.

In battlegrounds such as Ohio, scores of clergy members attended legal sessions explaining how they could talk about the election from the pulpit. Hundreds of churches launched registration drives, thousands of churchgoers registered to vote, and millions of voter guides were distributed by Christian and antiabortion groups.

The rallying cry for many social conservatives was opposition to same-sex marriage. But concern about the Supreme Court, abortion, school prayer and pornography also motivated these "values voters." Same-sex marriage, said Tony Perkins, president of the Family Research Council, was "the hood ornament on the family values wagon that carried the president to a second term."

How Conservative Turnout Soared

Whether evangelical turnout rose nationally this year, and by how much, is unclear. Without question, however, Bush's conservative Christian base was essential to his victory.

According to surveys of voters leaving the polls, Bush won 79 percent of the 26.5 million evangelical votes and 52 percent of the 31 million Catholic votes. Turnout soared in conservative areas such as Ohio's Warren County, where Bush picked up 18,000 more votes than in 2000, and local activists said churches were the reason.

Over the summer, the Rev. Bruce Moore, pastor of Warren County's Clearcreek Christian Assembly, gave two sermons explaining a Christian's responsibility to vote. Then he passed out voter registration cards. His 400 congregants circulated them among like-minded friends, registering hundreds more voters.

"On this election, because of the issues before the state of Ohio and the nation, they were passionate," Moore said. "It was all hands on deck. I have never seen a rush for voter registration cards in my life as a minister."

Nationally, the backdrop for the mobilization of social conservatives fell into place when Massachusetts's highest court sanctioned same-sex marriage in November.

Some Christian leaders perceived not only a threat to biblical morality, but also a winning political issue. Same-sex marriage "is different from abortion," said the Rev. Ronnie Floyd, pastor of First Baptist Church of Springdale, Ark. "It touches every segment of society, schools, the media, television, government, churches. No one is left out."

Yet Bush was slow to endorse a constitutional amendment to define marriage as between a man and a woman. In a January conference call, Rove promised impatient Christian leaders that an endorsement would be forthcoming, and it finally came Feb. 24, nearly two weeks after same-sex couples began lining up for nuptials in San Francisco.
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There's 2 more pages . . .
 
Sep 29, 2004
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Originally posted by: IHateMyJob2004
OK, this should open some eyes and also help people understand why it was so close. You will also see why Hillary is an excelent candidate for Pres or VP in 2008. Just look at where she is from. She might get all of those states that went red this year. Please take note that this map helps explain why Clinton won in a landslide.

Beyond Red and Blue

kfh

Actually, the point is, go compare that map to this one:
Nation wide county election map
 

nakedfrog

No Lifer
Apr 3, 2001
63,536
19,964
136
Argh... this is America, I'm supposed to be free to live the way I want to live, not free to live the way THEY want me to live.
 

Darkhawk28

Diamond Member
Dec 22, 2000
6,759
0
0
Originally posted by: Pliablemoose
Originally posted by: conjur
Time to start revoking tax-exempt status for churches.

That'll be popular.

Well why not? You guys were screaming that the black church in Florida should have it's exempt status revoke for have Kerry speak at it... but I guess it only applies to "those" type of churches. Ok, got it.
 

ElFenix

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Mar 20, 2000
102,407
8,595
126
Originally posted by: IHateMyJob2004
OK, this should open some eyes and also help people understand why it was so close. You will also see why Hillary is an excelent candidate for Pres or VP in 2008. Just look at where she is from. She might get all of those states that went red this year. Please take note that this map helps explain why Clinton won in a landslide.

i think hilary gave up her southern credentials by being the jr. senator from new york.

plus she never got the political experience working with southern conservatives that bill got.
 

KK

Lifer
Jan 2, 2001
15,903
4
81
Originally posted by: Darkhawk28
Originally posted by: Pliablemoose
Originally posted by: conjur
Time to start revoking tax-exempt status for churches.

That'll be popular.

Well why not? You guys were screaming that the black church in Florida should have it's exempt status revoke for have Kerry speak at it... but I guess it only applies to "those" type of churches. Ok, got it.

No churches should get tax-exempt status. Period.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,959
6,798
126
Remember that bigotry toward gays is nothing but hate but it's Democrats who are being tarred with that label. The struggle for equality for gays is inverted to be called shoving gayness down our throats. What happens actually is that gays reveal the hate that's bottled up and showing "GOOD" people how filled with hate they are pisses them off. Nobody likes to know he's a hypocrite and secretly in league with the Devil.
 
Sep 12, 2004
16,852
59
86
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Remember that bigotry toward gays is nothing but hate but it's Democrats who are being tarred with that label. The struggle for equality for gays is inverted to be called shoving gayness down our throats. What happens actually is that gays reveal the hate that's bottled up and showing "GOOD" people how filled with hate they are pisses them off. Nobody likes to know he's a hypocrite and secretly in league with the Devil.

I voted against the high-speed rail in Florida. By your definition, I suppose it was because I hate trains? :roll:
 

ElFenix

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Mar 20, 2000
102,407
8,595
126
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Remember that bigotry toward gays is nothing but hate but it's Democrats who are being tarred with that label. The struggle for equality for gays is inverted to be called shoving gayness down our throats. What happens actually is that gays reveal the hate that's bottled up and showing "GOOD" people how filled with hate they are pisses them off. Nobody likes to know he's a hypocrite and secretly in league with the Devil.

democrats hate black people.
 

Darkhawk28

Diamond Member
Dec 22, 2000
6,759
0
0
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Remember that bigotry toward gays is nothing but hate but it's Democrats who are being tarred with that label. The struggle for equality for gays is inverted to be called shoving gayness down our throats. What happens actually is that gays reveal the hate that's bottled up and showing "GOOD" people how filled with hate they are pisses them off. Nobody likes to know he's a hypocrite and secretly in league with the Devil.

I voted against the high-speed rail in Florida. By your definition, I suppose it was because I hate trains? :roll:

I nominate this for "Worst I missed the point" reply. :laugh:
 

Darkhawk28

Diamond Member
Dec 22, 2000
6,759
0
0
Sep 12, 2004
16,852
59
86
Originally posted by: Darkhawk28
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Remember that bigotry toward gays is nothing but hate but it's Democrats who are being tarred with that label. The struggle for equality for gays is inverted to be called shoving gayness down our throats. What happens actually is that gays reveal the hate that's bottled up and showing "GOOD" people how filled with hate they are pisses them off. Nobody likes to know he's a hypocrite and secretly in league with the Devil.

I voted against the high-speed rail in Florida. By your definition, I suppose it was because I hate trains? :roll:

I nominate this for "Worst I missed the point" reply. :laugh:
If you believe that then you missed my point entirely.

Pointing to the vote against allowing gay marriage as proof that people "hate" gays is no more valid then claiming I hate trains because I voted against the high-speed rail. This hate crap is a patently false characterization, meant to slur and malign those who did vote against gay marriage, that leaps to an erroneous conclusion. Many people, even a lot of Christians, are ambivalent about gays. For them the vote was about the sanctity of marriage and that they consider marriage to be the union of a man and a woman. To extrapolate it to mean they hate gays is ridiculously assumptive.

 

RobCur

Banned
Oct 4, 2002
3,076
0
0
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Originally posted by: Darkhawk28
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Remember that bigotry toward gays is nothing but hate but it's Democrats who are being tarred with that label. The struggle for equality for gays is inverted to be called shoving gayness down our throats. What happens actually is that gays reveal the hate that's bottled up and showing "GOOD" people how filled with hate they are pisses them off. Nobody likes to know he's a hypocrite and secretly in league with the Devil.

I voted against the high-speed rail in Florida. By your definition, I suppose it was because I hate trains? :roll:

I nominate this for "Worst I missed the point" reply. :laugh:
If you believe that then you missed my point entirely.

Pointing to the vote against allowing gay marriage as proof that people "hate" gays is no more valid then claiming I hate trains because I voted against the high-speed rail. This hate crap is a patently false characterization, meant to slur and malign those who did vote against gay marriage, that leaps to an erroneous conclusion. Many people, even a lot of Christians, are ambivalent about gays. For them the vote was about the sanctity of marriage and that they consider marriage to be the union of a man and a woman. To extrapolate it to mean they hate gays is ridiculously assumptive.
i like gays, gays are cool. their people, leave them alone.

 

cquark

Golden Member
Apr 4, 2004
1,741
0
0
Originally posted by: b0mbrman
Originally posted by: cquark
and some population cartograms, like this one by state:
http://www.kieranhealy.org/files/misc/cartogram.png
Those maps make me madder than ever :|

I bet if we counted up the blue area, it would be bigger than the red area (just from my eyeball estimate). Looks like Bush stole another election :|

They're about even actually. The purple map is interesting because there is more blue than red, indicating that there is more heavily Democratic area than heavily Republican, though of course many areas are shades of purple, indicating a close division.

The biggest division that all the maps point to is between urban and rural areas.
 

CPA

Elite Member
Nov 19, 2001
30,322
4
0
Originally posted by: nakedfrog
Argh... this is America, I'm supposed to be free to live the way I want to live, not free to live the way THEY want me to live.

hahahahaha.......
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,959
6,798
126
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Originally posted by: Darkhawk28
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Remember that bigotry toward gays is nothing but hate but it's Democrats who are being tarred with that label. The struggle for equality for gays is inverted to be called shoving gayness down our throats. What happens actually is that gays reveal the hate that's bottled up and showing "GOOD" people how filled with hate they are pisses them off. Nobody likes to know he's a hypocrite and secretly in league with the Devil.

I voted against the high-speed rail in Florida. By your definition, I suppose it was because I hate trains? :roll:

I nominate this for "Worst I missed the point" reply. :laugh:
If you believe that then you missed my point entirely.

Pointing to the vote against allowing gay marriage as proof that people "hate" gays is no more valid then claiming I hate trains because I voted against the high-speed rail. This hate crap is a patently false characterization, meant to slur and malign those who did vote against gay marriage, that leaps to an erroneous conclusion. Many people, even a lot of Christians, are ambivalent about gays. For them the vote was about the sanctity of marriage and that they consider marriage to be the union of a man and a woman. To extrapolate it to mean they hate gays is ridiculously assumptive.
You don't hate trains. You drive a car and don't give a f@ck about rapid transit cause you care more about yourself and your tax dollar than you do about the welfare of the system. You are like that because you hate yourself and correspondingly inflate and make sick the ego you created to hide that hate from yourself. What you call assumptive I call seeing into that which is dark for you. I know you because I know myself. You are full of hate just like me. :D Unfortunately truth is known by experience and you can't be given that. You have to earn it by doing. You must become the Hero with a thousand faces.

 

irwincur

Golden Member
Jul 8, 2002
1,899
0
0
I bet if we counted up the blue area, it would be bigger than the red area (just from my eyeball estimate). Looks like Bush stole another election

You libs never fail to amaze me.

If you had noticed the key on the map - ONE BOX EQUALS ONE ELECTORAL VOTE. So I bet if you count them up, and include both NM and IA, it would be correct.

The whole 'looks like Bush stole another election' statement is just STUPID. He actually won by fairly large historic margins, and with almost a 4 million raw vote lead his win in the EC follows previous trends correctly.
 

NeoV

Diamond Member
Apr 18, 2000
9,504
2
81
settle down irwincur, only nut-jobs are saying Bush stole the election (this year)...relax...breathe in....

Moonbeam, WTH was that? I thought you had gotten through that phase of your life....

I think any church that gets involved in the political process should not be tax exempt in any way, shape, or form.