The economics of car ownership and buying new versus used

[Vdubchaos]

Heck, I saved almost CAD$20000 just this weekend alone simply by buying a used Prius and haggling, for a car that looks brand new.

So you think someone lost money on this deal?

 

[Torn Mind]

It does pay to know a little about how things work, so scumbag mechs don't pull off common trick like a you need an alternator upsell when all you need just a new battery. But, the amount of time available varies from person to person. Those without the time just have to pony up the $$$$, hopefully after vetting the mechanic they plan to use.

Some things are worth paying a mechanic, but if you have a 1.8L Toyota, the mechanic is laughing all the way to the bank each time he installs a $16-19 serpentine belt while charging 70+ bucks to do the work.

 

[Vdubchaos]

It does pay to know a little about how things work, so scumbag mechs don't pull off common trick like a you need an alternator upsell when all you need just a new battery. But, the amount of time available varies from person to person. Those without the time just have to pony up the $$$$, hopefully after vetting the mechanic they plan to use.

Some things are worth paying a mechanic, but if you have a 1.8L Toyota, the mechanic is laughing all the way to the bank each time he installs a $16-19 serpentine belt while charging 70+ bucks to do the work.

Correct

It doesn't hurt to learn ANYTHING new. Knowledge is power. And in our society lack of knowledge is used against people quite often (especially in the business world).

For example, I wouldn't send my wife/mom to a dealership for service or to buy a car. Their goal is to extract as much money as possible from a person. Women are easy targets (to them).

 

[Eug]

So you think someone lost money on this deal?

I don't see how you could possibly think I suggested that at all in post. Don't be daft.

The point is I get a near brand new car with partial warranty, and don't have to spend a bazillion hours fixing up and cleaning up a shit bucket car I don't want in the first place, using up time I don't have either.

BTW, my newly purchased car actually costs less to insure than my wife's 7 year low end old car that is worth about 1/5th of the price on the used market.

 

[NutBucket]

Of course, it might take you 3 times longer to do the same job... but we won't go there.

So it only "saved" me $40/hr. I can live with that!

 

[SearchMaster]

If you bought a car with a "multimedia display" that costs that much......well, there si your problem.

Buy simple, proven technology.

Any time you get "latest and greatest" you buy at premium price and buy technology that hasn't been proven and has 0 track record.

Also, there is 0 knowledge out there to help you when there is trouble.

When it comes to cars, less is more. More option you get, less reliable car will be in the future.

It's fine to have that opinion, but you're missing out on some great technology in today's vehicles that make the experience that much better. I used to feel the way you do until I got a more modern car. With push button start and proximity sensing, I never have to remove my keys from my pocket. With Bluetooth and voice control, I never have to remove my phone from my pocket. My heated seats? Sure, they could break at which point I wouldn't have heated seats any more...but until then, I have heated seats and you don't

 

[Eug]

I have heated seats, push button start and proximity sensing, and Bluetooth, among other things.

Out of those mentioned above, I value heated seats the least. I couldn't care less about that, whereas push button start and proximity sensing is a requirement for me. Mind you push button start and proximity sensing isn't exactly new. I've had that since 2004, and that was not on a luxury car either.

BTW, it's nice that my workplace eats the cost for charging my car at work. Yesterday I drove home purely on electric power. My gasoline utilization was exactly zero.

But the car wasn't even new when I bought it. It was a 2012 model, and about 2.5 years old. It's not as if I'm advocating buying brand new. In fact, I've said before that probably the best bang for the buck is in the 2-4 year-old range, because after that you often have to deal with a lot more repairs, so either you spend your own time doing those repairs or else you pay someone else for them.

 

[Tweak155]

A lot of this depends on the convenience level you're looking for. People value all sorts of things differently.

For those that spend $100/mo on cable TV, I might apply that same $100 to a lease instead, as I don't value cable TV.

In the end, you just have to decide what your preference is, don't always focus on saving the most money. Over a lifetime, even if you bought a brand new car every 5 years (let's say $30k, and you NEVER got money for the previous one, which is not going to be the case...), you might buy something like 12 cars. That's ~$360k total for a lifetime. You could spend that much just on your house, and a car you spend a good portion of your life using. I'd argue it is a worthwhile investment, even ignoring that it wont cost you the full $360k.

But, it's all about your preference. Don't worry about maximizing the money difference unless you really need / want that money for something else.

 

[JulesMaximus]

So it only "saved" me $40/hr. I can live with that!

And you might have to buy tools and then you have to store the tools... might end up costing you more in time and investment than you save.

 

[Eug]

Re: The last two posts:

I probably spend about as much on cars as many people making less money than me spend on booze and cigarettes. (I don't smoke and I on occasionally have a drink, a glass or two of wine, or a beer or two on a night out, once every few weeks.)

 

[exar333]

And you might have to buy tools and then you have to store the tools... might end up costing you more in time and investment than you save.

Good point.

Also, it is difficult to be an expert in EVERYTHING. Personally, I consider myself reasonably 'handy', can build and repair computers/laptops/etc. and am competent enough to design and build home theater setups and the like as well.

With cars, I am reasonably 'handy' but I do what I can with limited tools, because the investment into more expensive and specialized tools just doesn't make sense to me. I enjoy auto diagnostics and repair to a point, but am not interested in doing major work myself. This might change, but not right now.

I agree with others though that it helps a LOT to have some knowledge with your car to at least know where it makes sense to do something yourself vs. hiring. Good example of this was after I showed my wife how easy it was to replace her cabin air filter in her car (noticed the AC was weak, and it ended-up being the filter restricting airflow due to it being really old). $10 and 10 minutes later, it was all good. Later that year, she scoffed at the dealership after they asked her if she wanted a new cabin filter for $80. She said it was $10 to do it herself. No tools either.

Last point I will make is that model-specific forums can be a GREAT source of information for annoying, strange issues with your car. Folks there often will know more than a generic mechanic (not specialized for your vehicle) and the help there is free.

 

[Tweak155]

Re: The last two posts:

I probably spend about as much on cars as many people making less money than me spend on booze and cigarettes. (I don't smoke and I on occasionally have a drink, a glass or two of wine, or a beer or two on a night out, once every few weeks.)

How does this apply to my post other than reinforcing that it is all about preference? Unless that is your point.

 

[Eug]

I'm just agreeing with you.

It's like my sister. She used to criticize me for spending way more than her on computers, saying it was a waste of money, until I pointed out to her that she buys luxury cars that cost twice as much as mine, and cars cost a lot more than computers.

 

[Vdubchaos]

I don't see how you could possibly think I suggested that at all in post. Don't be daft.

The point is I get a near brand new car with partial warranty, and don't have to spend a bazillion hours fixing up and cleaning up a shit bucket car I don't want in the first place, using up time I don't have either.

So your definition of used car = shit bucket

When the car you JUST bought is already used.

BTW, my newly purchased car actually costs less to insure than my wife's 7 year low end old car that is worth about 1/5th of the price on the used market.

Insurance savings etc is petty shit not even worth talking about. But I will take you up on it.

Used paid off car doesn't require full coverage. And in general used cars/as they age are cheaper on insurance anyways.

And insurance rates are not just based on cars, mostly drivers. Yes it can be 10x the price if you wife has DUI, tickets and accidents.

 

[Vdubchaos]

It's fine to have that opinion, but you're missing out on some great technology in today's vehicles that make the experience that much better. I used to feel the way you do until I got a more modern car. With push button start and proximity sensing, I never have to remove my keys from my pocket. With Bluetooth and voice control, I never have to remove my phone from my pocket. My heated seats? Sure, they could break at which point I wouldn't have heated seats any more...but until then, I have heated seats and you don't

THere is nothing modern about heated seats, my 99 Passat has those.....

Rest of the stuff is complete garbage I care nothing about.

I look at all of these technologies and it makes me cringe. No thanks to push button , bluetooth or voice controls.

It's all more overpriced crap they put in cars that have potential to break more often.

no thanks

 

[JulesMaximus]

So your definition of used car = shit bucket

When the car you JUST bought is already used.





Insurance savings etc is petty shit not even worth talking about. But I will take you up on it.

Used paid off car doesn't require full coverage. And in general used cars/as they age are cheaper on insurance anyways.

And insurance rates are not just based on cars, mostly drivers. Yes it can be 10x the price if you wife has DUI, tickets and accidents.

To drop full coverage on my last car after it was paid off only decreased my annual rates by less than $100. It was literally a few bucks a month.

 

[JulesMaximus]

THere is nothing modern about heated seats, my 99 Passat has those.....

Rest of the stuff is complete garbage I care nothing about.

I look at all of these technologies and it makes me cringe. No thanks to push button , bluetooth or voice controls.

It's all more overpriced crap they put in cars that have potential to break more often.

no thanks

My 1973 SAAB had heated seats.

 

[Midwayman]

Good point.

Also, it is difficult to be an expert in EVERYTHING. Personally, I consider myself reasonably 'handy', can build and repair computers/laptops/etc. and am competent enough to design and build home theater setups and the like as well.

With cars, I am reasonably 'handy' but I do what I can with limited tools, because the investment into more expensive and specialized tools just doesn't make sense to me. I enjoy auto diagnostics and repair to a point, but am not interested in doing major work myself. This might change, but not right now.
.

Sometimes its just easier to pay someone else to do the 'handy' for you.

 

[Yuriman]

Sometimes its just easier to pay someone else to do the 'handy' for you.

If you don't enjoy it, it makes sense.

I enjoy fixing things, so I'd be paying someone to do something I like, so I can... what, sit in front of Anandtech refreshing pages, waiting for someone to respond to the threads I'm watching?

 

[Vdubchaos]

My 1973 SAAB had heated seats.

And electric cars have been around for centuries too, yet people think they are some kind of a god's gift/greatest thing since sliced bread.

 

[Vdubchaos]

If you don't enjoy it, it makes sense.

I enjoy fixing things, so I'd be paying someone to do something I like, so I can... what, sit in front of Anandtech refreshing pages, waiting for someone to respond to the threads I'm watching?

x2

Sense of accomplishment is important.

If you end up with a life filled with "doing nothing", is the life really worth living?

There are SO many things in life that we do that accomplish absolute crap........and people strive for more NOTHING!!!

It almost seems like "doing things" is taboo.

 

[Vdubchaos]

To drop full coverage on my last car after it was paid off only decreased my annual rates by less than $100. It was literally a few bucks a month.

And to do it on my cars it cut the insurance rates in 1/2.

It varies, I understand.

 

[Tweak155]

I dropped full coverage on my 12 yo vehicle because I only drove it 3-5k miles / yr and like 6mos after that I got rear ended at a light and it was totaled.

The doucher took off (this was in Detroit) and I got stuck with a total loss. You win some you lose some.

 

[thedarkwolf]

I enjoy driving an engaging vehicle. That doesn't mean $$$ all the time, but how hard would you want to push a $800 20-year old car that you rely on to get to/from work?

Well in my case I actually loved driving my 89 dodge caravan but then it was a turbo LOL and I doubled the stock boost pressure and did all kinds of other tweaks. Had a lot of fun with that thing. I rebuilt the engine and trans and still spent almost nothing on it. In my case though I always have two cars so I never really have to worry about it. My other car being a $2k miata that I used for autox.

 

[Vdubchaos]

I dropped full coverage on my 12 yo vehicle because I only drove it 3-5k miles / yr and like 6mos after that I got rear ended at a light and it was totaled.

The doucher took off (this was in Detroit) and I got stuck with a total loss. You win some you lose some.

Same here. 2 cars 15 years old. At this point, if anything happens, they are totaled and if I have to pay the deductible......buying full coverage simply doesn't make any sense.

Best part about it, there is nothing better than having a car you simply don't give a shit about/or care what happens to it.

Mind you, they are not junks or anything extreme like that. Both good cars/nice looking/we took care of them well.

I can go buy 2 new cars today, I just don't want to have 0 desire for anything new (or even used).

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.