The Dunning-Kruger Effect: The real problem with America

[Atreus21]

This is what even bamacre (who agrees with me on...practically nothing) can recognize. The Republican party is devolving into a bunch of "not me's" and knuckle dragging freaks.

Instead of utterly disowning them (as I have), they just keep accepting whoever is tossed at them, without any consideration as to their intellectual, logical, or moral viability.

Intellectual viability? There are democrats who will vote for Alvin Green.
Logical viability? Where are the stalwart champions of logic who populate the democrat party?
Moral viability? You have got to be kidding me. You guys supported partial birth abortion until a republican repealed it.

I mean, for fucks sake, the *LAST* person who should be preaching family values is McCain (who dumped his wife who was in an accident for a beauty queen), or Palin (my daughter is a slut), or O'Donnel (who has never had a family)...etc.

It is very easy for people on the left, who are not constrained by any such principles, to laugh at the those who have principles and fail on occasion to live up to them.

Yet, somehow, these people are their heroes. When was the last time you saw Cyclo, Fear, or anybody else starting a thread deriding Palin or her ilk? You won't because they can't be intellectually honest and say..."Wow, these people are fucking morons, do I really want them to represent me?"

Would you deride Obama and his ilk? Of course not, because you don't think he's a fucking moron. But we do.

But of course you can't be wrong, right?

This self deception and devolution of their party, their intelligence, and their logic, has resulted in a brain-dead dittohead mentality led by the likes of Beck (Cash4Gold!) and Limbaugh (who himself is a drugged out man-whore who has no morality or scruples).

Effectively the right has sold their soul for what? A handful of platitudes and money (I will eat my own lunch and not share, fuck all of you poor people).

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/03/conservatives_more_liberal_giv.html

I mean, seriously, can you guys honestly justify your party anymore? Can you honestly say that you aren't deceiving yourselves?

Quite frankly, I don't think you can because one can just look at this thread and see Dunning Kruger in effect.

Yes, one need look no further than the original post, and poster.

 

[Moonbeam]

One thing is now, I think, very clear to anybody who has some intelligence, at least. The stupid Right is too stupid to see how stupid it is and will argue the point instead.

Nobody with even a modicum of brain cells to rub together can't see that the folk the right worships are anti-intellectual. As I said before about Reagan being the worst vegetable to ever be elected, he's the worst because he made being a moron acceptable for a President.

The cause for all this is very easy to see if you are in touch with what we've been made to feel. We were put down for being stupid all our lives and if we are smart we can be titanic egotists flaunting our gifts or rejecting assholes who hate anything that looks like it has a brain. Brains, sadly, don't help with knowing or transcending what we feel.

 

[Atreus21]

One thing is now, I think, very clear to anybody who has some intelligence, at least. The stupid left is too stupid to see how stupid it is and will argue the point instead.

Nobody with even a modicum of brain cells to rub together can't see that the folk the left worships are anti-intellectual. As I said before about Clinton being the worst vegetable to ever be elected, he's the worst because he made being a moron acceptable for a President.

The cause for all this is very easy to see if you are in touch with what we've been made to feel. We were put down for being stupid all our lives and if we are smart we can be titanic egotists flaunting our gifts or rejecting assholes who hate anything that looks like it has a brain. Brains, sadly, don't help with knowing or transcending what we feel.

Fixed.

 

[CycloWizard]

Wow, calm down. You are the one that baited him when you took umbrage to a demographic generalization. You came at him first, and he was immature to be flippant back, but your response here is not warranted. You do nothing for your position with this post.

I don't have a position here - I've only pointed out the folly of LK's position. Everything I said to you was exactly warranted.

 

[HumblePie]

I don't have a position here - I've only pointed out the folly of LK's position. Everything I said to you was exactly warranted.

To me? Now what exactly are you directing at me?

 

[CycloWizard]

This is what even bamacre (who agrees with me on...practically nothing) can recognize. The Republican party is devolving into a bunch of "not me's" and knuckle dragging freaks.

Instead of utterly disowning them (as I have), they just keep accepting whoever is tossed at them, without any consideration as to their intellectual, logical, or moral viability.

I mean, for fucks sake, the *LAST* person who should be preaching family values is McCain (who dumped his wife who was in an accident for a beauty queen), or Palin (my daughter is a slut), or O'Donnel (who has never had a family)...etc.

Yet, somehow, these people are their heroes. When was the last time you saw Cyclo, Fear, or anybody else starting a thread deriding Palin or her ilk? You won't because they can't be intellectually honest and say..."Wow, these people are fucking morons, do I really want them to represent me?"

This self deception and devolution of their party, their intelligence, and their logic, has resulted in a brain-dead dittohead mentality led by the likes of Beck (Cash4Gold!) and Limbaugh (who himself is a drugged out man-whore who has no morality or scruples).

Effectively the right has sold their soul for what? A handful of platitudes and money (I will eat my own lunch and not share, fuck all of you poor people).


I mean, seriously, can you guys honestly justify your party anymore? Can you honestly say that you aren't deceiving yourselves?

Quite frankly, I don't think you can because one can just look at this thread and see Dunning Kruger in effect.

What I find amazing is that the single person I would call a Republican in this thread, actually is the only one who has stood up and recognized the reality of the situation. I applaud that and admire him massively for it.

The rest of you are RINOs.

Really? You want to go to the mat because I don't start threads discussing every idiotic politician? I never gave you sufficient credit before, but you really are a mouth breather. When was the last time I started a thread about ANY politician? A quick search indicates that I have never started a thread about a politician on either side of the aisle. You're so rabid to prove that those who don't share your every opinion are legally retarded that you fail to realize that you are at least as bad as they are. I stand by my previous statement: you are an ignorant prick. Go find a hole to quietly die in before you forget how to feed yourself.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

Really? You want to go to the mat because I don't start threads discussing every idiotic politician? I never gave you sufficient credit before, but you really are a mouth breather. When was the last time I started a thread about ANY politician? A quick search indicates that I have never started a thread about a politician on either side of the aisle. You're so rabid to prove that those who don't share your every opinion are legally retarded that you fail to realize that you are at least as bad as they are. I stand by my previous statement: you are an ignorant prick. Go find a hole to quietly die in before you forget how to feed yourself.

Not worth getting pissed...this guy is a first class moron....and too fucking stupid to realize it. It's funny in one way...but really sad in another as he reflects a growing element of our society.

 

[Moonbeam]

Fixed.

Yes you fixed it all right and now anybody can see just how right I was.

 

[Moonbeam]

Really? You want to go to the mat because I don't start threads discussing every idiotic politician? I never gave you sufficient credit before, but you really are a mouth breather. When was the last time I started a thread about ANY politician? A quick search indicates that I have never started a thread about a politician on either side of the aisle. You're so rabid to prove that those who don't share your every opinion are legally retarded that you fail to realize that you are at least as bad as they are. I stand by my previous statement: you are an ignorant prick. Go find a hole to quietly die in before you forget how to feed yourself.

This is a stupid reaction to somebody even if they are wrong. I think the point is not who shares whose position or doesn't and what that says about their brains, but that the Republican party in general is anti-intellectual, that many of them are in fact so stupid they can't see how stupid they are. All this talk of proof is just a waste of time because you can't show the stupid they are stupid. They are protected by stupidity.

 

[LegendKiller]

Really? You want to go to the mat because I don't start threads discussing every idiotic politician? I never gave you sufficient credit before, but you really are a mouth breather. When was the last time I started a thread about ANY politician? A quick search indicates that I have never started a thread about a politician on either side of the aisle. You're so rabid to prove that those who don't share your every opinion are legally retarded that you fail to realize that you are at least as bad as they are. I stand by my previous statement: you are an ignorant prick. Go find a hole to quietly die in before you forget how to feed yourself.

Again, you've taken up the banner personally. You know damn well that "you people" may or may not mean you specifically. However, you've chosen the mantle.

 

[LegendKiller]

Not worth getting pissed...this guy is a first class moron....and too fucking stupid to realize it. It's funny in one way...but really sad in another as he reflects a growing element of our society.

Yeah, sure there buckwheat. Sorry to say, it's your party that's leading the charge to stupidity.

You're right though, it is not worth getting pissed about. People like you can't realize what the Effect really means. Your intellectual superiors in this thread have tried to point it out but you're too dense. Then, instead of debating the truth, as many of the real Republicans, have, you simply toss around trash like this, further highlighting your lack of real substance, just like Palin.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

Yeah, sure there buckwheat. Sorry to say, it's your party that's leading the charge to stupidity.

You're right though, it is not worth getting pissed about. People like you can't realize what the Effect really means. Your intellectual superiors in this thread have tried to point it out but you're too dense. Then, instead of debating the truth, as many of the real Republicans, have, you simply toss around trash like this, further highlighting your lack of real substance, just like Palin.

Yep...you've got it all figured out...and have a truly amazing intellect to boot. I'm beside myself in awe!

 

[Moonbeam]

Yep...you've got it all figured out...and have a truly amazing intellect to boot. I'm beside myself in awe!

Actually you're just trying to make somebody else feel stupid as if it would help you somehow. You're besides yourself because you don't want to see who you are.

 

[nobodyknows]

Because it might at least indicate that you have an argument.

Some day you will learn what a wonderful thing experience is. It enables you to recognize a mistake the second time you've made it. That is why I won't continue arguing with you, not that I expect you to unerstand that, but I figured I owed you an explanation even if you don't understand it. Understand?

 

[CycloWizard]

This is a stupid reaction to somebody even if they are wrong. I think the point is not who shares whose position or doesn't and what that says about their brains, but that the Republican party in general is anti-intellectual, that many of them are in fact so stupid they can't see how stupid they are. All this talk of proof is just a waste of time because you can't show the stupid they are stupid. They are protected by stupidity.

You're living proof that you're correct - you think the Democrats are any better. The English shake their heads in amazement that Americans in general believe any of the earnest platitudes our politicians throw at us.

 

[CycloWizard]

Yeah, sure there buckwheat. Sorry to say, it's your party that's leading the charge to stupidity.

You're right though, it is not worth getting pissed about. People like you can't realize what the Effect really means. Your intellectual superiors in this thread have tried to point it out but you're too dense. Then, instead of debating the truth, as many of the real Republicans, have, you simply toss around trash like this, further highlighting your lack of real substance, just like Palin.

You have no room to talk - about stupidity, the DK effect, and certainly not lying or a lack of real substance. I noticed you didn't bother to reply when I called you out in my previous post for making completely baseless claims. I guess it's easier to hope it just disappears than own up to the fact that you're nothing but another partisan hack. The only difference between you and the idiots you so deplore is the side of the aisle you stand on.

 

[Moonbeam]

You're living proof that you're correct - you think the Democrats are any better. The English shake their heads in amazement that Americans in general believe any of the earnest platitudes our politicians throw at us.

There you go again, but where's the beef. Literacy, my friend, literacy.

I didn't say Democrats are better, I said they are less anti-intellectual than Republicans. I said that Republicans play and promote anti-intellectualism to get the votes of folk who feel stupid and hate folk who can think for that reason. Democrats are all ivory tower intellectuals that can't tie their shoes, they are pansies who can't defend the nation, they have no feel for the common moron on the street, etc. etc. etc.

Now in my opinion this means that Republicans will elect folk who are so stupid they will destroy the nation, that being stupid is dangerous if you're a politician. Imagine having Sarah Palin a heart beat from being President. It's reckless insanity but it got votes. Folk who can't see that are too stupid to know how stupid they are. But they don't care because they are full of hate and hate makes you very very stupid.

 

[Atreus21]

Some day you will learn what a wonderful thing experience is. It enables you to recognize a mistake the second time you've made it. That is why I won't continue arguing with you, not that I expect you to unerstand that, but I figured I owed you an explanation even if you don't understand it. Understand?

Fair enough. I understand experience. But I think it is intellectually incumbent upon even experienced folks to articulate their reasons for thinking the way they do.

The annoying thing about experience is that the knowledge gained by it is almost always true, but it's very difficult to identify why.

 

[Binarycow]

This is a stupid reaction to somebody even if they are wrong. I think the point is not who shares whose position or doesn't and what that says about their brains, but that the Republican party in general is anti-intellectual, that many of them are in fact so stupid they can't see how stupid they are. All this talk of proof is just a waste of time because you can't show the stupid they are stupid. They are protected by stupidity.

Not all republicans but a large portion of them seem that way, very anti-intellectual. But so are many of the democrats with their self-accumulating ignorance. This, I believe, is the reason why the founding fathers created the system of electoral college instead of having a direct vote for the US presidency. Collectively, stupid/ignorant people are very very dangerous to a democratic society where everyone has the right to vote. Not that I would ever suggest taking voting right away from anyone.

 

[HumblePie]

Wow can we cut out the childish name calling in this thread? LK you are not coming off sounding all that smart to me when you refer to people as buckwheat, let alone some of the other words you've used. Cyclo, you aren't doing very well either in this regard. Moonie... well moonie stirs the pot if anyone actually reads his posts which I rarely do anyhow.

If you guys want to get back on topic before this gets lock for a flame fest might I suggest the original discussion at hand? Here, I'll reiterate it.

LK proposition is that the Dunning-Kruger effect is being to manifested in current politics. He feels is it especially prevalent from the right-wing with recent candidates being rallied behind such as Palin and O'Donnell as points for his argument. I disparages the tea-party in particular and the GOP at large for both preying on and being preyed upon using the D-K effect. He feels many of the current right wing voters are the major cause of this and may eventually come to some sort of collapse of society.

Obviously, others disagree with his statements. There, back on track and you guys can continue the debate in 3... 2... 1... GO!

 

[Scotteq]

<Giggles that this thread is a shining example of the Dunning-Kruger Effect in action>

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

Actually you're just trying to make somebody else feel stupid as if it would help you somehow. You're besides yourself because you don't want to see who you are.

Interesting that you chose to direct your comment towards me and not the OP. Why is that? Please think about it for a minute before responding.

 

[SP33Demon]

A large chunk of the Republican base are anti-intellectual and not sure if it just correlates to white trash (or Democratic ghetto trash) or if some of you are on to something when you say that our comfy lifestyles of TV, video games, Facebook, and Twitter are dumbing down the populace and replacing books/public discussion. I think Al Gore's book "Assault on Reason" really explains this phenomenon well and how our founding fathers relied on public discussion of the news(paper) to temper the balance of power. I don't think they ever envisioned that entertainment would ever supplant current events but that is what has happened. They assumed that a well informed populace would stimulate rational ideas and never dreamed that anti-intellectualism would ever exist.

We are in the minority in this online forum discussing politics: how many friends do you have that actually care/research/recognize/follow the political landscape? I bet you can name at least 3 that do not. Magnified to a larger scale, most of the populace couldn't care less about politics unless it's newsworthy regarding the simplest (to us) of notions such as skin color (Obama), gender (Palin/O'Donnell b/c they're "hot"), or extreme position (Rush/Keith O/Bill O/Hannity). I can guarantee you that many in this country don't give a dam about the general election and voter turnout will be abysmal. The general populace will go back to Facetwittervideoing and live in the ignorance is bliss world and not give 2 shts about the current political climate until it's time for Obama's re-election. People aren't discussing politics like they did in colonial times, instead the TV/Computer controls them all the way to the election booth. Sad times.

 

[Binarycow]

A large chunk of the Republican base are anti-intellectual and not sure if it just correlates to white trash (or Democratic ghetto trash) or if some of you are on to something when you say that our comfy lifestyles of TV, video games, Facebook, and Twitter are dumbing down the populace and replacing books/public discussion. I think Al Gore's book "Assault on Reason" really explains this phenomenon well and how our founding fathers relied on public discussion of the news(paper) to temper the balance of power. I don't think they ever envisioned that entertainment would ever supplant current events but that is what has happened. They assumed that a well informed populace would stimulate rational ideas and never dreamed that anti-intellectualism would ever exist.

We are in the minority in this online forum discussing politics: how many friends do you have that actually care/research/recognize/follow the political landscape? I bet you can name at least 3 that do not. Magnified to a larger scale, most of the populace couldn't care less about politics unless it's newsworthy regarding the simplest (to us) of notions such as skin color (Obama), gender (Palin/O'Donnell b/c they're "hot"), or extreme position (Rush/Keith O/Bill O/Hannity). I can guarantee you that many in this country don't give a dam about the general election and voter turnout will be abysmal. The general populace will go back to Facetwittervideoing and live in the ignorance is bliss world and not give 2 shts about the current political climate until it's time for Obama's re-election. People aren't discussing politics like they did in colonial times, instead the TV/Computer controls them all the way to the election booth. Sad times.

Hey, they had their colosseum and its gladiatorial games to distract the average person back then, we have our youtube, facebook, 800 channel cable TV now for the same purpose. Nothing new. Ultimately, we are our own worst enemy, it's just really hard for us all to swallow that idea.

 

[Moonbeam]

Interesting that you chose to direct your comment towards me and not the OP. Why is that? Please think about it for a minute before responding.

Interesting that you find it interesting. Did you think for a minute how right I was before you asked? Interesting that you didn't address that, no?

Forget everything else and look at the truth of what I said.

For somebody who is constantly asking others to apply what they say to themselves you seem woefully inadequate in doing it yourself. This is your MO.

You have this passive aggressive thingi going on whereas LK is refreshingly openly hostile. Out of the closet he's going to be a lot easier to treat. My job then will be to help those with the most need, eh?

I am here to remind those who are always reminding others to look at themselves to do the same.

Did you see the glaring example of this phenomenon espoused by those espousing in in the OP link? It was a classic in my opinion:


"Dunning and Kruger state that the cause of the effect is that incompetence at a certain skill also robs one of the ability to make an accurate judgment concerning that skill. This, coupled with the tendency to protect one’s feeling of self-worth (a tendency every healthy person displays) inevitably leads to the crass overestimation shown in the study."

Hehehehehehehehehehehehe Can you imagine the arrogant blindness and incompetence in self knowledge it takes to imagine that the tendency to protect one's feelings of self worth is a healthy thing? These poor fuckers have no idea that they hate themselves and that they are deeply sick as a result and all their so called feelings of self worth are delusional lies, the external egotistical and delusional manifestation of deep inner self loathing. When you really know you're OK you don't have anything at all to protect.

Even the so called experts don't know anything. Trust me. The truth is known only to those who know it. It can't be kept from those who deserve it and can't be given to those who don't. This is justice.