The Derivatives President.

techs

Lifer
Sep 26, 2000
28,559
4
0
First of all this thread is not going to be pro or against McCain (or Obama).

Much discussion has taken place here and elsewhere saying McCain has run a poor campaign. Its come from Repubicans and Democrats, Obama and McCain supporters.

Well, I read the books written about the campaign of 2004. And it was very enlightening.

The Karl Rove political strategy was different from what the mainstream media, Democrats and Republicans talk about. The CW (conventional wisdom) is a candidate is judged on many factors, and if you are on the right side of enough of them, you will vote for that candidate. For example, a large majority of people in 2008 say they trust the Democrats over the Republicans on a generic issue like the "economy". What Karl Rove would say is ok, but what is the deciding issue that people make their minds up about. For some it might be a tax cut for themselves, for some its captial gains tax, for some its even things only barely related to the economy like eminent domain.

So what the derivative approach says is you can pick up more than you can get for the whole if you break it down. If 70 percent of the people support Democrats on the economy and 30 percent Republicans, Karl Rove starts to find what part of that 70 percent can he get. Take the word "socialism". Believe me, McCain didn't just throw it out there. I am sure Karl Rove knew how many of the 70 percent he could get by appealing to those who the word socialism once said becomes the dominate "issue" for certain voters.

I believe at some point very early in McCains camp they had to make a decision to go big, or squeak by. Go big meant moving centrist and giving up some of his base to grab an even larger amount of the rest. With Bush at 30 percent and the country ticked off, I am thinking the squeak by strategy won.

Now lets look at how Bush won in 2004, despite the perceptions amongst Democrats that he had done a horrible job and was easily beatable.
First off, according to Rove (from many sources) when he looked at the upcoming 2004 campaign he was shocked. It was Bushes campaign to lose. Added to the traditional one issue voters that would vote for Bush, and adding the traditional Republican voters, Rove found out there was a substantial number of, for want of a better term, security moms (and dads). Here was a single issue that could get even hard core Democrats to vote for Bush, no matter what he said on other issues. Hence the Swift Boat ads, hence the no back down on Iraq, no mistakes, Saddam had wmd, etc.

So what did it look like to Karl Rove in 2008?
Well, it would be much harder to piece together 50.1 percent of the vote, or 270 electoral votes but not impossible.
First off he had to make sure the one issue voters who were disgruntled came out to vote. You might be a strong 2nd amendment person, but if you were disenchanted with the Republicans you might not vote, etc, etc. So McCain would have to run the type of campaign that would highly motivate the one issue Republican voters. You don't do that by running towards the center and in any way treating your opponent like he's a good guy you just have some differences of opinion.
Hence, the type of campaign McCain has run.

Basically, keep the base, keep the one issue voters, keep the security mom and dads. Which left McCain searching for some more single issue voters out of what was left. Hence going after people whose key word 'elitist' Or the voters who wanted age and experience. Or, lets face it, the people who were unconfortable with a black man. Hence, Ayers. Hence, Maverick. This gave the perception of a lurching campaign. But it was picking up voters here and there.

While Bush may be too much for McCain to overcome, I submit to you, that McCain has run the type of campaign that made the most sense. Remember before the financial meltdown McCain was ahead. And, even if he loses, a side effect is keeping the one issue voters, or rather the pieces of the Republican base on board. Which will help the Senate and House races, and give the next Republican candidate a very small amount of voters needed above what he will start out with.


-----------------------------------
See Tech's next post for lock

Senior Anandtech Moderator
Common Courtesy



 

T2T IIIa

Junior Member
Oct 21, 2008
6
0
0
Thanks for providing this information. Karl Rove had a very bad rap a few years ago - and, faced a lot of scrutiny and negative publicity. However, I must say from his recent writings and interviews, he does seem quite logical in his analysis.
 

techs

Lifer
Sep 26, 2000
28,559
4
0
Originally posted by: T2T IIIa
Thanks for providing this information. Karl Rove had a very bad rap a few years ago - and, faced a lot of scrutiny and negative publicity. However, I must say from his recent writings and interviews, he does seem quite logical in his analysis.
Don't get me wrong. Karl Rove is the scum of the earth and an enemy of American Democracy, just like you.
The piece was merely an analysis of how ran the campaign in 2004 and how it affects 2008.

As for you, after your disgusting troll post, first time in P&N. I will, for the first time in my long history here post something I never have, and hope to never do again:
DIAF

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I know later on you tried to justify your post, but you went into an attack mode for which in this thread there was no justification. You should know that you atttack the message, not the messenger.

You have been the one to hijack your own thread which caused the lock

Senior Anandtech Moderator
Common Courtesy


 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,459
6,690
126
The worst sin, in my opinion, is to use cunning for the sake of ego and self aggrandizement.

Karl Rove is a swine who knows how and has no compunction against using what is worst in people for his own ends. McCain is a swine for doing the same. The country is being destroyed because what is worst in people is being brought out by Republicans to forward their power. Holy war must be waged against them. They are scum.
 

techs

Lifer
Sep 26, 2000
28,559
4
0
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
The worst sin, in my opinion, is to use cunning for the sake of ego and self aggrandizement.

Karl Rove is a swine who knows how and has no compunction against using what is worst in people for his own ends. McCain is a swine for doing the same. The country is being destroyed because what is worst in people is being brought out by Republicans to forward their power. Holy war must be waged against them. They are scum.


What I wonder is how much have the Democrats learned about the Rove style of campaign and can they effectively counter it?
How many people actually base their vote on which candidate did the smearing?
 

brencat

Platinum Member
Feb 26, 2007
2,170
3
76
Originally posted by: techs
As for you, after your disgusting troll post, first time in P&N. I will, for the first time in my long history here post something I never have, and hope to never do again:
DIAF
Die in a fire? Are you fricken' kidding me Techs??? WTF?! :|

So much for liberals tolerating dissenting opinion...

:roll:

Totally out of line and uncalled for.
 

Thump553

Lifer
Jun 2, 2000
12,836
2,620
136
Originally posted by: techs
Originally posted by: T2T IIIa
Thanks for providing this information. Karl Rove had a very bad rap a few years ago - and, faced a lot of scrutiny and negative publicity. However, I must say from his recent writings and interviews, he does seem quite logical in his analysis.
Don't get me wrong. Karl Rove is the scum of the earth and an enemy of American Democracy, just like you.
The piece was merely an analysis of how ran the campaign in 2004 and how it affects 2008.

As for you, after your disgusting troll post, first time in P&N. I will, for the first time in my long history here post something I never have, and hope to never do again:
DIAF

Cut back on the caffeine, techs. You are way, way overboard in your reaction. The thread is an analysis of the methods Rove used to acheive political success-you can disagree with his goals and still admire his methodology.
 

Jschmuck2

Diamond Member
Jul 13, 2005
5,623
3
81
Originally posted by: brencat
Originally posted by: techs
As for you, after your disgusting troll post, first time in P&N. I will, for the first time in my long history here post something I never have, and hope to never do again:
DIAF
Die in a fire? Are you fricken' kidding me Techs??? WTF?! :|

So much for liberals tolerating dissenting opinion...

:roll:

Totally out of line and uncalled for.

Did he offend your delicate sensibilities?
 

AstroManLuca

Lifer
Jun 24, 2004
15,628
5
81
Originally posted by: techs
Originally posted by: T2T IIIa
Thanks for providing this information. Karl Rove had a very bad rap a few years ago - and, faced a lot of scrutiny and negative publicity. However, I must say from his recent writings and interviews, he does seem quite logical in his analysis.
Don't get me wrong. Karl Rove is the scum of the earth and an enemy of American Democracy, just like you.
The piece was merely an analysis of how ran the campaign in 2004 and how it affects 2008.

As for you, after your disgusting troll post, first time in P&N. I will, for the first time in my long history here post something I never have, and hope to never do again:
DIAF

I don't think it's a troll post. He didn't say Karl Rove is a good guy. All he said was he was logical in his analysis.

Most members of the Bush cabinet, and also Karl Rove, are exceedingly smart. But they're more of the scheming smart, not the righteous smart. You can't really argue that Dick Cheney is stupid. Mean, egotistical, self-centered? Sure.
 

alchemize

Lifer
Mar 24, 2000
11,486
0
0
Techs, you are a drooling toddler next to Rove.

edit: maybe next to most anyone. not to offend drooling toddlers as they are cute and cuddly and don't use P&N as their personal blog.
 

techs

Lifer
Sep 26, 2000
28,559
4
0
Originally posted by: brencat
Originally posted by: techs
As for you, after your disgusting troll post, first time in P&N. I will, for the first time in my long history here post something I never have, and hope to never do again:
DIAF
Die in a fire? Are you fricken' kidding me Techs??? WTF?! :|

So much for liberals tolerating dissenting opinion...

:roll:

Totally out of line and uncalled for.

You and Thump553 misread.
First off the guy who I dissed was the first time poster who started the disgusting thread about Michelle Obama from a disgusting website, not this thread poster (obviously). And he was not even smart enough to understand or didn't read my post because he assumed I was a supporter of Karl Rove which clearly I am not.
As to Thump553 I know he has the brains to read and understand my post, so I am just assuming he missed the fact the I actually posted it and my criticism was not directed towards the poster (myself) but to the disgusting trollster with the hideously disgusting link.

 

T2T III

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
12,899
1
0
Originally posted by: techs
Originally posted by: T2T IIIa
Thanks for providing this information. Karl Rove had a very bad rap a few years ago - and, faced a lot of scrutiny and negative publicity. However, I must say from his recent writings and interviews, he does seem quite logical in his analysis.
Don't get me wrong. Karl Rove is the scum of the earth and an enemy of American Democracy, just like you.
The piece was merely an analysis of how ran the campaign in 2004 and how it affects 2008.

As for you, after your disgusting troll post, first time in P&N. I will, for the first time in my long history here post something I never have, and hope to never do again:
DIAF

You, my friend, seem like a horrible individual. I thought personal attacks such as you've done were not permitted on this forum. Hopefully, the moderators will see this and ban you.

As far as calling me a troll - and a first time poster, I guess you failed to read my signature properly. I'm a long term member here. Very long, actually. There was an issue with my ID that required correcting.

Finally, I didn't say anything negative against you. I simply pointed out where Karl Rove has taken a bad rap in the past, yet his latest writings seem more bi-partisan.

Thank you ... as I await your ban.
 

techs

Lifer
Sep 26, 2000
28,559
4
0
Originally posted by: T2T III
Originally posted by: techs
Originally posted by: T2T IIIa
Thanks for providing this information. Karl Rove had a very bad rap a few years ago - and, faced a lot of scrutiny and negative publicity. However, I must say from his recent writings and interviews, he does seem quite logical in his analysis.
Don't get me wrong. Karl Rove is the scum of the earth and an enemy of American Democracy, just like you.
The piece was merely an analysis of how ran the campaign in 2004 and how it affects 2008.

As for you, after your disgusting troll post, first time in P&N. I will, for the first time in my long history here post something I never have, and hope to never do again:
DIAF

You, my friend, seem like a horrible individual. I thought personal attacks such as you've done were not permitted on this forum. Hopefully, the moderators will see this and ban you.

As far as calling me a troll - and a first time poster, I guess you failed to read my signature properly. I'm a long term member here. Very long, actually. There was an issue with my ID that required correcting.

Finally, I didn't say anything negative against you. I simply pointed out where Karl Rove has taken a bad rap in the past, yet his latest writings seem more bi-partisan.

Thank you ... as I await your ban.

Wow. The guy I responded to was called T2T IIIa and he had one post. And now T2T III responds as T2T IIIa and he has 12,000 posts.
Then you should know posting disgusting threads from obviously phony websites is well, disgusting.
You want to get into a ban war? You started it by your disgusting thread.

 

T2T III

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
12,899
1
0
Originally posted by: techs
Originally posted by: T2T III
Originally posted by: techs
Originally posted by: T2T IIIa
Thanks for providing this information. Karl Rove had a very bad rap a few years ago - and, faced a lot of scrutiny and negative publicity. However, I must say from his recent writings and interviews, he does seem quite logical in his analysis.
Don't get me wrong. Karl Rove is the scum of the earth and an enemy of American Democracy, just like you.
The piece was merely an analysis of how ran the campaign in 2004 and how it affects 2008.

As for you, after your disgusting troll post, first time in P&N. I will, for the first time in my long history here post something I never have, and hope to never do again:
DIAF

You, my friend, seem like a horrible individual. I thought personal attacks such as you've done were not permitted on this forum. Hopefully, the moderators will see this and ban you.

As far as calling me a troll - and a first time poster, I guess you failed to read my signature properly. I'm a long term member here. Very long, actually. There was an issue with my ID that required correcting.

Finally, I didn't say anything negative against you. I simply pointed out where Karl Rove has taken a bad rap in the past, yet his latest writings seem more bi-partisan.

Thank you ... as I await your ban.

Wow. The guy I responded to was called T2T IIIa and he had one post. And now T2T III responds as T2T IIIa and he has 12,000 posts.
Then you should know posting disgusting threads from obviously phony websites is well, disgusting.
You want to get into a ban war? You started it by your disgusting thread.
Look. Wishing someone to Die In A Fire is certainly the angriest attack that one could make. Links are posted, topics are started to provoke thoughts, and not to provoke violence, name calling and wishing death on someone.

Edit: I didn't post the thread based on the Web site at all. It was simply done out of the news that's being circulated on the radio, today. Yes, I do get out, I do read newspapers, I do listen to and watch the news. However, I do look at both sides - and make my own judgements and decisions from there.

You are going to get more interesting as this election approaches. You seem to have lots of rage. Hopefully, you can find a proper outlet to vent it, instead of on here and against other members in the way you've conducted yourself.



 

Harvey

Administrator<br>Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
35,057
67
91
Originally posted by: T2T III

I simply pointed out where Karl Rove has taken a bad rap in the past, yet his latest writings seem more bi-partisan.

Right, like his direction of the smear camapaigns against John Kerry, Max Cleland and even John McShame in previous elections. Like his illegal writings from within the Whithehouse directing political actions, including completely corrupting and co-opting the Department of Justice under Alberto The Clown and like his writings directing the outing of Valerie Plame and smearing Joseph Wilson.

The closest historical analogy to Karl Rove is Adolph Hitler's propoganda minister, Joseph Goebbels, often credited with implementing propoganda technique known as "The Big Lie." :thumbsdown: :|

If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.

That is Rove's MO. It speaks mountains about John McCain's lack of integrity that he would now hire Rove and his smear machine to run the same kind of campaign of lies and smears against Obama that he once decried when it was used against him.

Rove is a disgrace to humanity. McCain is a two faced political whore who couldn't keep his Double Talk Express on track if it had training wheels. :|
 

techs

Lifer
Sep 26, 2000
28,559
4
0
Originally posted by: T2T III
Originally posted by: techs
Originally posted by: T2T IIIa
Thanks for providing this information. Karl Rove had a very bad rap a few years ago - and, faced a lot of scrutiny and negative publicity. However, I must say from his recent writings and interviews, he does seem quite logical in his analysis.
Don't get me wrong. Karl Rove is the scum of the earth and an enemy of American Democracy, just like you.
The piece was merely an analysis of how ran the campaign in 2004 and how it affects 2008.

As for you, after your disgusting troll post, first time in P&N. I will, for the first time in my long history here post something I never have, and hope to never do again:
DIAF

You, my friend, seem like a horrible individual. I thought personal attacks such as you've done were not permitted on this forum. Hopefully, the moderators will see this and ban you.

As far as calling me a troll - and a first time poster, I guess you failed to read my signature properly. I'm a long term member here. Very long, actually. There was an issue with my ID that required correcting.

Finally, I didn't say anything negative against you. I simply pointed out where Karl Rove has taken a bad rap in the past, yet his latest writings seem more bi-partisan.

Thank you ... as I await your ban.

When you post stories from an email that says, well, the story is too disgusting to post, probably get the thread locked, you are the one responsible.


 

brencat

Platinum Member
Feb 26, 2007
2,170
3
76
Originally posted by: Jschmuck2
Originally posted by: brencat
Originally posted by: techs
As for you, after your disgusting troll post, first time in P&N. I will, for the first time in my long history here post something I never have, and hope to never do again:
DIAF
Die in a fire? Are you fricken' kidding me Techs??? WTF?! :|

So much for liberals tolerating dissenting opinion...

:roll:

Totally out of line and uncalled for.

Did he offend your delicate sensibilities?
Please. You're a "schmuck" if you think Techs' response to T2T was even remotely close to appropriate or deserving in this situation.
 

alchemize

Lifer
Mar 24, 2000
11,486
0
0
Originally posted by: T2T III
Originally posted by: techs
Originally posted by: T2T III
Originally posted by: techs
Originally posted by: T2T IIIa
Thanks for providing this information. Karl Rove had a very bad rap a few years ago - and, faced a lot of scrutiny and negative publicity. However, I must say from his recent writings and interviews, he does seem quite logical in his analysis.
Don't get me wrong. Karl Rove is the scum of the earth and an enemy of American Democracy, just like you.
The piece was merely an analysis of how ran the campaign in 2004 and how it affects 2008.

As for you, after your disgusting troll post, first time in P&N. I will, for the first time in my long history here post something I never have, and hope to never do again:
DIAF

You, my friend, seem like a horrible individual. I thought personal attacks such as you've done were not permitted on this forum. Hopefully, the moderators will see this and ban you.

As far as calling me a troll - and a first time poster, I guess you failed to read my signature properly. I'm a long term member here. Very long, actually. There was an issue with my ID that required correcting.

Finally, I didn't say anything negative against you. I simply pointed out where Karl Rove has taken a bad rap in the past, yet his latest writings seem more bi-partisan.

Thank you ... as I await your ban.

Wow. The guy I responded to was called T2T IIIa and he had one post. And now T2T III responds as T2T IIIa and he has 12,000 posts.
Then you should know posting disgusting threads from obviously phony websites is well, disgusting.
You want to get into a ban war? You started it by your disgusting thread.
Look. Wishing someone to Die In A Fire is certainly the angriest attack that one could make. Links are posted, topics are started to provoke thoughts, and not to provoke violence, name calling and wishing death on someone.

Edit: I didn't post the thread based on the Web site at all. It was simply done out of the news that's being circulated on the radio, today. Yes, I do get out, I do read newspapers, I do listen to and watch the news. However, I do look at both sides - and make my own judgements and decisions from there.

You are going to get more interesting as this election approaches. You seem to have lots of rage. Hopefully, you can find a proper outlet to vent it, instead of on here and against other members in the way you've conducted yourself.
Thicken up your skin bro, this is P&N. DIAF is mild.

 

Mani

Diamond Member
Aug 9, 2001
4,808
1
0
Rove is as soulless as they come, and would set this country ablaze if it meant winning an election, but noone doubts his intelligence. He knows how to win an election - the difference between him and his adversaries is that he has no moral qualms with destroying people or this country to win.
 

techs

Lifer
Sep 26, 2000
28,559
4
0
Originally posted by: Mani
Rove is as soulless as they come, and would set this country ablaze if it meant winning an election, but noone doubts his intelligence. He knows how to win an election - the difference between him and his adversaries is that he has no moral qualms with destroying people or this country to win.
Which makes him the perfect person to run a Derivatives campaign where your GOAL is get your supporters as angry as possible.