The Crumbling Pillars of American Racial Orthodoxy

[Maetryx]

Maetryx here,

Racial discussions in this forum, or anywhere else, are greatly hindered by modern day racial McCarthyism. As you might recall, McCarthyism was the widespread accusations of communism in the 1950s. There were investigative Senate hearings regarding the evils of hidden communism. The only political view allowed by society was a staunch opposition to communism. Vicious accusations abounded and one had to be careful that they were opposed to communism to a sufficiently high degree.

Today, there is the same societal atmosphere, but now the ultimate evil is racism. Everyone must denounce it vigorously. Organized baseball took heat in the press because they weren't anti-racist enough when they suspended John Rocker over racist comments he made to a reporter. Apparently some believed that he should have been fired for his views.

Today, Americans must begin racial discussions or letters with statements like, "I'm in no way a racist, but...." Racism is equated with hatred, evil, ignorance, and closed-mindedness. The pillars of American racial orthodoxy tolerate no dissent.

1) We are all absolutely equal
This mainstream view was once known as radical egalitarianism. The idea that we are not just equal under the law, but that we are all born as clean slates, equal in every way. No idea could be less scientific, and yet it is one of the pillars of modern political orthodoxy.

2) Pervasive white bias
The next pillar of racial idealsim in America is the idea of institutional white racism. After decades of Civil Rights in this country, there is still an achievement gap between whites and minorities (except Jews, Asians and West Indies blacks). The immediate conlcusion is that an achievement gap MUST be a result of discrimination and racism (because as we saw in item #1, we are all absolutely equal). The achievement gap led to the establishment of Affirmative Action (which is the opposite of Equal Opportunity) to correct for the white racism. A numeric gap is considered evidence of white racism.

3) Diversity is strength
After racial McCarthyism took hold, new Orewellian double-speak emerged. Now it is necessary to praise multi-culturalism, diversity, rampant illegal immigration, 90% non-white legal immigration and language divides. Even making a list, such as the one I just made, can cause an outcry of accusations in this era of racial McCarthyism. Yet, what people believe and say in the privacy of their own homes or amongst close friends is radically different than what they say in public or on the record. It would be a comic irony if the results weren't so tragic. How can racial problems be solved in such a restrictive social atmosphere? Click for a great article entitled The Myth of Diversity, by Jared Taylor

But I think these pillars will crumble. How much longer can our society maintain racial double standards? How much longer can we pretend that white racism is responsible for minority failure? How can we say that tests are biased in favor of whites, Jews, Asians, and West Indies blacks, but against blacks and Hispanics? How much longer can we pretend that racial diversity is a great strength when it flies in the face of all the evidence? Clearly our society needs to question the underlying assumptions, because they don't fit the facts. But so long as a person is labeled a racist for doing so, and so long as that label is sufficient to destroy a persons career and social life, not many are going to be asking the questions.

 

[bandXtrb]

wow, deep thoughts there Maetryx.

I can relate to the part about saying things regarding race in public vs. to the way one speaks among close friends.

 

[glenn1]

Maetryx and others interested in this topic, you might do well to try reading some of Dr. Thomas Sowell's columns, here.

Fair disclosure, he is a conservative and writes from a strongly conservative point of view, so you might not agree with some of his conclusions, but it is powerful and persuasive writing from a towering American intellect.

 

[pulpp]

wow, great post man... what people say in closed circles is certainly different from what you hear in public, from all sides

 

[DeepBlue]

Right on man. Great post. People need to accept the fact that underachievement in the black and hispanic communities has nothing to do with racism. It has everything to do with the hispanic and black culture. Neither culture values education. Look at Asians. They are a minority yet they are much more prevalent in the universities and are over represented in the universities in relation to the percent of Asians in the population. Yet hispanics and blacks are heavily under represented in the universities. The reason for this is the high degree of value Asians place on education and the low degree of value hispanics and blacks place on education. Blacks especially have an obsession with basketball and going pro. Yet what they don't understand is that the odds that their efforts in sports paying off later for them are much slimmer than the odds that their efforts studying paying off.

I just watched a movie called "Finding Forrester". It is about a black kid who lives in the Bronx in New York. He was a naturally gifted writer and a good basketball player. Yet it wasn't until the end of the movie that he finally let go of Basketball and decided to pursure his career as a writer. I think that this glorification of Basketball and other sports does have a negative impact on the black community and they should really start getting their priorities straight. The top of that priority list should be education.

 

[NesuD]

Here! here! I have been thinking many of those same things for some time and have just been unable to put it in words. Great post!

By the way i agree about Thomas Sowell magnificent thinker.

 

[FrontlineWarrior]

True but false.

 

[Clinotus]

Deep Blue you are an Idiot, but I digress in hopes that that statement you made is just your attempt at eloquently voicing your opinion from the upbringing of a segregated majority community. Your statements ostracize and highlight an ENTIRE PEOPLE -without regard for any individual, that is called sterotyping. Let it go.

 

[lucidguy]

The average IQ scores of black people in America is lower than the average IQ scores of any other racial group.

This is a scientific result.

Translation: Blacks are dumb.

 

[Amused]

<< The average IQ scores of black people in America is lower than the average IQ scores of any other racial group.

This is a scientific result.

Translation: Blacks are dumb. >>



Ah yes, the Bell Curve. That's been pretty much refuted on all points. There's no shortage of websites that tear it to pieces.

----------------

Maetryx, I agree with most of your points. Popular black American culture has, in it's rebellion against it's former oppressors, largely ridiculed and ostracized those who put a high value on academic achievement. It places far too much emphasis on sports and entertainment, yet not nearly enough on education, and intellect.

It also glorifies the violence and gang activity that tears it's communities apart, and is the reason why the leading cause of death for young black men, is murder by another young black man.

Yet, we see many blacks who leave this culture, and break out of the cycle of poverty, violence, drugs and gang culture that is so pervasive among blacks.

Plus, in the 50s, most black families had both a mother and a father, yet today, black families are some of the most fragmented among all other groups. I believe this has a lot to do with it as well.

In reality, it has little to do with a racial problem, and nearly everything to do with a culture problem.

 

[DeepBlue]

<< Deep Blue you are an Idiot, but I digress in hopes that that statement you made is just your attempt at eloquently voicing your opinion from the upbringing of a segregated majority community. Your statements ostracize and highlight an ENTIRE PEOPLE -without regard for any individual, that is called sterotyping. Let it go. >>




<< Deep Blue you are an Idiot, but I digress in hopes that that statement you made is just your attempt at eloquently voicing your opinion from the upbringing of a segregated majority community. Your statements ostracize and highlight an ENTIRE PEOPLE -without regard for any individual, that is called sterotyping. Let it go. >>


First of all I don't live in a segregated community. I live in California where white people are actually the minority now. It is obvious that you don't want to accept the fact that black and hispanic people don't value education as much as other ethnic groups. Go ahead and be ignorant but the statistics are definately not in your favor.

Statistics are statistics. You can't argue with them. Yes I evaluate black people I meet in person individually yet it is still possible to look at the big picture. If a physicist knows that a certain percentage of an element is an isotope is he going to look at every single atom under a microscope to evaluate each one? Heck no. The same goes for demographics and statistics in general. They can give you an idea of the big picture. The bottom line is that at my local university %1 of the student population is black. If you don't believe me see for yourself:
College Statistics

If you notice asians are %35 of the student population at my local university. Yet they definately do not represent %35 of the total population. Why is that? Their culture values education much more than that of black people or hispanics. The statistics show this overwhelmingly. Please tell me how I am idiot by pointing out a simple fact.

 

[pen^2]

The average Anandtecher with the snail avatar is more confused than the members with other avatars.

This is is a scientific result.

Translation: lucid guy needs a clue.

 

[lucidguy]

<< Ah yes, the Bell Curve. That's been pretty much refuted on all points. >>



The bell curve has been refuted? Well, well, isn't that something. I've studied the bell curve for about 10 years now, and its applications in physics, statistics, combinatorics, computer science, and other maths and sciences, and it always seemed to work out just fine.

But now, on your unfounded say-so, I guess I will take you at your word and accept that the bell curve doesn't work anymore.

Thank you for enlightening me.

 

[67gt500]

How much longer can our society maintain racial double standards? How much longer can we pretend that white racism is responsible for minority failure? How can we say that tests are biased in favor of whites, Jews, Asians, and West Indies blacks, but against blacks and Hispanics? How much longer can we pretend that racial diversity is a great strength when it flies in the face of all the evidence? Clearly our society needs to question the underlying assumptions, because they don't fit the facts. But so long as a person is labeled a racist for doing so, and so long as that label is sufficient to destroy a persons career and social life, not many are going to be asking the questions.

Hate to sound like a broken record here but your answer is: as long as liberalism in this country exists.

The political philosophy is dependant on dependence.


Interestingly enough the EEOC's reverse discrimination claims made up 20% of its caseload last year. And even more interesting, the EEOC itself was sued and proven to be guilty of reverse discrimination within its own ranks.

This is what liberalism has done to america.

 

[Maetryx]

Maetryx here,

The Bell Curve by Herrnstein and Murray. This is a book about the intellectual stratification of America, and about the inheritability of IQ. The authors establish a strong correlation between genetics and IQ (independent of parents' socio-economic status). In chapter 13, after establishing in concrete that IQ is approximately 60% inherited, they relate IQ to race. Nothing in the book was astonishing to academia. The racial IQ gap is a persistent phenomenon going back to the creation of IQ tests.

Most psychometricians are in step with the scholarship of The Bell Curve. Not surprisingly, popular culture decided the results were intolerable. So the media does not mention the book without the requisite prefix &quot;The widely refuted book....&quot;

 

[lucidguy]

<< The racial IQ gap is a persistent phenomenon going back to the creation of IQ tests. >>



So wait. You're telling me that those number sequences and word puzzles and geometric similarity questions and so on, are not meant to measure certain intellectual faculties. Rather, they have secret messages embedded in them that are designed to maintain the oppresion of the whities while keeping the brother man down.

Is that what you're saying?

 

[Amused]

<<

<< Ah yes, the Bell Curve. That's been pretty much refuted on all points. >>



The bell curve has been refuted? Well, well, isn't that something. I've studied the bell curve for about 10 years now, and its applications in physics, statistics, combinatorics, computer science, and other maths and sciences, and it always seemed to work out just fine.

But now, on your unfounded say-so, I guess I will take you at your word and accept that the bell curve doesn't work anymore.

Thank you for enlightening me. >>



The book, and the studies that are in it. Not the Bell Curve itself. Sheesh.

 

[Amused]

Here is a 1997 article that shreds the the study behind the book &quot;The Bell Curve&quot; piece by piece, and does a damn good job of it:

The Bell Curve Flattened

&quot;The Bell Curve, it turns out, is full of mistakes ranging from sloppy reasoning to mis-citations of sources to outright mathematical errors. Unsurprisingly, all the mistakes are in the direction of supporting the authors' thesis.&quot;

 

[Maetryx]

<<

<< The racial IQ gap is a persistent phenomenon going back to the creation of IQ tests. >>



So wait. You're telling me that those number sequences and word puzzles and geometric similarity questions and so on, are not meant to measure certain intellectual faculties. Rather, they have secret messages embedded in them that are designed to maintain the oppresion of the whities while keeping the brother man down.

Is that what you're saying? >>



No. I was simply giving a synopsis of the book. I believe that the racial IQ gap is genuine and is best understood in its obvious, self-evident rendering. In short, I think you're preaching to the choir if you're trying to convince me that IQ tests are valid measures of intelligence. When I said that &quot;[t]he racial IQ gap is a persistent phenomenon&quot;, I meant that it was a valid and genuine truth that was and is revealed by IQ testing.

And to the forumer that posted a link to web sites or other book that &quot;shreds&quot; The Bell Curve, I would wonder if they even bothered to read the book itself or if they waited for journalists and pop psychologists to come out with some easier reading material opposed to the original work.

Even if The Bell Curve was an invalid work (which I most definitely do not grant) it wouldn't put a dent into the overwhelming evidence that supports the notion of an IQ bell curve, or the racial IQ divides. The racial IQ divide is as plain to me as the racial face feature divide. Anyone that thinks it is wrong to notice some painful, and even regretful, truth is in a sorry state indeed.

 

[Mikal]

As long as there are conservatives, there will be liberals to oppose them. Damn good thing too!

 

[lucidguy]

<< The racial IQ divide is as plain to me as the racial face feature divide. Anyone that thinks it is wrong to notice some painful, and even regretful, truth is in a sorry state indeed. >>



Oh, then we agree completely. There definitely is a racial IQ divide. Of course, this is the intellectual, PC way of saying it.

Chris Rock would say: &quot;****** are dumb.&quot;

But it's the same thing really.

The sad thing is that Chris Rock can get away with speaking honestly on this issue, because he himself is black, so he cannot be accused of racism against blacks. It is a sad day when you yourself have to be of a certain race to be able to speak honestly about that race, without being accused of racism.

As to whether IQ test methodology measures intelligence, it certainly measures the &quot;kind&quot; of intelligence that gets people engineering and computer programming jobs that earn people tons and tons of money. So even if it's not a definitive measure of intelligence, it's a measure of the &quot;kind&quot; of intelligence that is the most valuable and relevant in today's world.

Not even Chris Rock can use that word here.

This is a very interesting thread, and we do not want to stifle this debate at all. But you'll need to find other ways to make your point, without using terms that are so highly offensive.

 

[Wedesdo]

wow... for once, the snake made some (by far not all) valid points...

being asian my self, I agree with you on how blacks and hispanics alwyas cry &quot;discrimination&quot; when they just can't do as well as the rest of the ppl in the nation

 

[reitz]

While it is correct that the culture of some minorities in our country is what holds them back socially and economincally, we must look at the bigger picture in order to solve the problems we face today.

How and why did American blacks and hispanics create and adopt their respective cultures? Why do blacks live mostly in poor, inner-city neighborhoods? Why are they so mistrustful of whites as a group, and why do they shun acheivements that may label them as &quot;Uncle Toms&quot;?

Whites in the United States today would do well to accept the fact that it was the oppression and persecution that created this sub-culture in the first place. Beginning with slavery, and continuing through to the second half of the 20th century, blacks were given very few reasons to trust whites and integrate with mainstream American culture. The result is a sub-culture of Americans that is plagued by crime and little or no education, and seriously mistrusts any ethnic group or sub-culture but its own. Even though the barriers and injustices of the past are largely removed today, the mentality of that sub-culture prevails.

Affirmative Action is not the answer, nor are &quot;black-only&quot; scholarships or today's PC-at-all-costs mentality. Ideas such as those serve only to further alienate the already successful segments of our culture who are working hard to increase tolerance and awareness, and further break down the barriers of yesterday. Also, by awarding money, respect, jobs, etc. based on race instead of acheivement, those policies pervert the core values of American culture that have made us so successful. Instead of teaching minorities the value of hard work and personal acheivements, Political Correctness preaches that &quot;everybody is a vicitm&quot;, and that rewards are deserved rather than earned.

Blacks and hispanics, at the same time, need to realize that today's whites are not the same people who opressed and persecuted them for so long. My skin color makes me no more responsible for slavery and oppression than my German heritage makes me responsible for the holocaust. While there is without a doubt plenty of racism in society today, it now occurs from both sides of the argument, and both sides are just as much to blame for today's problems.

Understanding and spotlighting a problem is the first step towards eliminating it. Whites (and successful minorites) must seek to understand the unique problems facing blacks and hispanics today, while these minorities must also realize that mainstream American culture is no longer the largest barrier to true racial harmony. Past injustices must be forgiven before we can ever move towards the future.

 

[damocles]

IQ testing is a load of bollox anyway. It's a measure that assesses if you think in certain ways and not how well you think.

t really doesn't carry any weight unless you want to join a group like MENSA

 

[GL]

The fact (and I'm assuming this is correct) that Black's in the U.S. do poorly in relation to other races in I.Q. testing is just that - a statistical correlation. But you cannot work backwords through this logic and say, because you are black, you will do poorly on a I.Q. test.

Mathematically, it is similar to 2^2=4, but sqrt(4) != 2. Sqrt(4) = +/- 2 which is distinctly different than simply '2'.

Just because the correlation is between race and results on a test, the explanation for that correlation does not have to have anything to do with race.

The fact that blacks in Canada and blacks in suburban America do better than those in poorer, urban centers in the U.S. indicates that, like everything in life - this isn't a black and white issue. I'm sure there are financial issues, issues with the quality of public systems, the presence of large concentrations of crime in urban centers that have to do with this I.Q. divide.

And the assertion that black culture doesn't place an emphasis on education is absurd - or for that matter the stereotypical &quot;blacks like basketball&quot; relationship. Baseball has been white America's favourite pasttime but you don't turn to every white person you see and say &quot;hyugh, are you a baseball player?&quot;.