The Cowardice of the Conservative

Dissipate

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Jan 17, 2004
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The Cowardice of the Conservative
by Scott McPherson, June 2, 2006

Conservatives are an interesting bunch. In a desperate attempt to differentiate themselves from liberals, they like to mock folks on the Left while talking as if they themselves were in agreement with libertarians. ?I just vote Republican because they?re the lesser of two evils? is a common excuse for their continued support of that party and its philosophy (for lack of a better word).

But when you scratch below the surface of the typical conservative you find someone whose principles are about as far from libertarian as the leftist principles he condemns. As a friend of mine once said, ?Conservatives like to talk about ?limited government? ? they just never say what they want it limited to.?

In short, conservatives are typically cowards who don?t have the courage of their alleged convictions.

For example, take the issue of immigration, a hot topic this election year for Republicans. Unable to stand on principle against big government, most conservatives have decided instead to pick on an easy target, one guaranteed to rally their base: immigrants.

When you explain the moral issue at stake, i.e., the right to immigrate and our country?s history of open borders, the typical conservative avoids taking a stand by attempting to muddle the issue. ?You?re right,? he?ll say, ?but what about the welfare state? As long as immigrants can come here and live off welfare we can?t have open borders.?

For the libertarian, this isn?t an issue at all. Abolishing the welfare state is a number-one priority for principled libertarians. If there is in fact a problem with immigrants? using too much welfare (though the conservative is silent on the issue of native-born folks? using welfare, but we?ll get to that shortly) then that problem can be easily fixed: turn off the spigot of taxpayer funds and those who wish to loaf rather than work will stop coming here. Period.

This is particularly interesting because when it suits them conservatives are big anti-welfare-state types. The Republican Revolution of 1994 was characterized by rhetoric in favor of reversing the nation?s welfarist trend, and Republicans condescendingly sneer at liberals for their support of the welfare state, thinking themselves so far above the redistribution of wealth.

But having in (short) time retreated from that issue with complete indignity (George W. Bush is the biggest social spender since Lyndon Johnson), conservatives instead prefer to use it as an excuse to promote some ?big-government? programs of their own ? and keep voters on their side ? and kick around the people they like the least: immigrants.

Last fall I had the pleasure of participating in an informal debate with a representative of the Center for Immigration Studies, a conservative think-tank based in Washington, D.C. Every argument he made hinged on immigrants? ability to abuse the welfare state.

When I pressed him long enough on the immorality of the welfare state itself ? regardless of who was using it ? he threw his hands up in despair and addressed the audience at large: ?Who here thinks we?ll ever get rid of the welfare state??

So the jig was up: Conservatives aren?t prepared to take on the unpopular issue of abolishing the welfare state, so immigrants have to take a bashing. That?s unprincipled and cowardly.

Conservatives and the drug war

Another popular issue for conservatives is the drug war. Despite their small-government rhetoric anyone with a lick of sense can see the billions of dollars expended, the militarization of law-enforcement agencies, and the plethora of anti-drug laws enacted largely at the behest of conservative thinkers, as the Republicans? Achilles? heel. For all their talk about freedom and limited government, they like a big government around to pick on those drug-users ? who are probably just liberals anyway, well except maybe for Rush Limbaugh.

So we return to our earlier argument: The drug war is an immoral use of government power to try to make peaceful and otherwise law-abiding people behave in a way that the politicians can approve of.

?You?re right,? the conservative will say, ?but what about the welfare state? If drugs are legal then drug-users will destroy themselves and their families and taxpayers will end up footing the bill.? (As if alcohol, which conservatives consume with a clear conscience, weren?t responsible for a disproportionate amount of pain and misery!)

?Wait a minute!? the libertarian says. ?I thought you conservatives were for abolishing the welfare state. If we get rid of welfare then drug users can?t make their bad decisions a burden on society.?

?That?s true,? the conservative says, ?but it?s politically unpopular to talk about getting rid of the welfare state.?

The truth is, keeping the welfare state around a while longer makes it easy for conservatives to avoid tackling difficult issues and standing up for unpopular causes, all the while kicking around people they don?t like. Meanwhile, another group of peaceful people take a bashing because conservatives are unprincipled and cowardly.

Conservatives and public schooling

A third example is public ?education.? Conservatives know that public schools are a tragic and moral failure. They see the unthinking products of this institution and react with horror. ?See,? they say, ?government isn?t the solution ? government is the problem!? (Conservatives love to quote Ronald Reagan.)

What is their solution? Vouchers.

That?s right. When they see generation after generation of America?s young marched off to the equivalent of the government indoctrination camps found in Cuba or the former Soviet Union, Republicans are so incensed that they demand that parents ? have a choice of which camp their child will go to!

Worse, the few private camps (I say private schools still qualify as government-controlled camps because they must, by law, conform to government ?standards?) that exist will become virtually indistinguishable from government camps once subsidized attendance becomes widespread enough. (See Wickard v. Filburn, 1943: ?It is hardly lack of due process for the Government to regulate that which it subsidizes.?)

Conservative commentators rail continually against the failure of public education, yet when the libertarian asks, ?Why don?t we abolish all publicly funded educational institutions?? the conservative answers, ?We would, but those evil Democrats would have a field day denouncing us.?

Translation: ?We don?t have the courage to stand by our alleged convictions.?

Principle or expediency?

And finally, allow me to quote at length from a recent email sent out by the conservative Leadership Institute based in Arlington, Virginia:

Whether we conservatives like it or not, Civil Service employees have a lot of power. And they have good paying jobs and phenomenal job security. Yet most conservatives never consider seeking a U.S. Civil Service job. They should. Would you or someone you know consider a job in the Civil Service? If so the Leadership Institute can help. The Leadership Institute?s Civil Service Opportunity School teaches conservatives how to get a job and succeed in the Civil Service. That is why I invite you to attend the Leadership Institute?s Civil Service Opportunity School on May 15?17 starting 06:00 P.M. Whether you are a newcomer to Washington, D.C., or you are looking for a career change, this intensive seminar can give you the tools you need to begin your career in the Civil Service?. No longer should conservatives allow liberals to monopolize the bureaucracy. Learn from top Washington insiders how to break into the liberal-dominated Civil Service.

Conservatives may as well run up the white flag and issue a press release: ?If you can?t beat ?em, join ?em!?

This is the truth of the matter: Conservatives like to talk a good game about the need to rein in government spending, abolish particular programs, and downsize the number of bureaucrats, but at the end of the day they truly believe that a big government would probably work just fine if only they were in charge.

No doubt it would be an uphill battle for conservatives to change their big-government ways and embrace the libertarian vision of a free society. We libertarians know quite well how difficult it is to make the case for free markets, private property, and limited government.

Yet a principled approach to life requires doing the right thing, even when it?s not popular. Whether they?re too cowardly to stand by their principles or they don?t actually hold such views in the first place is irrelevant. When a Republican tells you he just votes for the ?lesser of two evils,? don?t believe him ? he doesn?t see his side as evil at all.

Text

This article makes excellent points regarding the disingenuous nature of conservatives. They denounce 'outrageous' liberal wealth re-distribution schemes while endorsing a huge number of big government agencies like the DEA.

The most hilarious part of this article is the advertisement the author found, advertising for conservatives to get on the government payroll.
 

Jadow

Diamond Member
Feb 12, 2003
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This article makes excellent points regarding the disingenuous nature of conservatives

You sound like someone with the intials AH referring to Jews around 1930 or so.
 

feralkid

Lifer
Jan 28, 2002
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Originally posted by: Jadow
This article makes excellent points regarding the disingenuous nature of conservatives

You sound like someone with the intials AH referring to Jews around 1930 or so.






Anyone who disagrees with conservatives is WORSE than Hitler!
 

Dissipate

Diamond Member
Jan 17, 2004
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Originally posted by: Jadow
This article makes excellent points regarding the disingenuous nature of conservatives

You sound like someone with the intials AH referring to Jews around 1930 or so.

ROLFMAO

Goodwin's Law FTW!
 

Stunt

Diamond Member
Jul 17, 2002
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Americans pride themselves with their rights, freedoms, and liberties; these were the founding principles of the nation. But in the process of creation, a two party system was developed where one advocates control over social issues, the other control over economic issues.

In the end all Americans lose as the politicians wheel and deal on both social and economic issues and the founding principles suffer as a result.
 

Rainsford

Lifer
Apr 25, 2001
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Originally posted by: Stunt
Americans pride themselves with their rights, freedoms, and liberties; these were the founding principles of the nation. But in the process of creation, a two party system was developed where one advocates control over social issues, the other control over economic issues.

In the end all Americans lose as the politicians wheel and deal on both social and economic issues and the founding principles suffer as a result.

Part of the problem with libertarian ideals is that government and politics, by their very nature, attract mostly people intent on taking control of something. For libertarians to win in politics, you have the unstable situation of attracting people to politics who want to virtually abolish government. The people to whom government really appeals are the nanny staters (of one brand or another) who are intent on finding one more way for government to intervene in our private lives.

Even in countries without two party systems, this is really the case. I have yet to hear of a single country where the libertarian political movement isn't some worthless, two bit party that nominates software engineers for president. Maybe such a part exists and I just haven't heard of it yet, but I really wonder...
 

Rainsford

Lifer
Apr 25, 2001
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Originally posted by: palehorse74
this thread basically defines P&N trolling...

Maybe, but it brings up an interesting point. Modern day conservatives really AREN'T all that conservative, at least not in the libertarian sense, and yet they stubbornly cling to that...if only because they think it makes them sound better. Although I have to admit that any article that equates US public schools to "indoctrination camps" found in the former Soviet Union has a few screws loose. We get it, you people hate public school, but no need for such stupid hyperbole.

I think Dave Barry's thoughts on the matter are considerably more insightful, and less offensivly nuts. He basically says that the only real difference between Republicans and Democrats is that Republicans claim to hate big government, while Democrats at least admit that they love it.
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
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Maybe the thesis of this post should be somewhat relabeled as rejecting labels.

This whole idea that a republican is someone who is for small government and sound fiscal policy-----certainly not the case with either Ronald Reagan of GWB---and a heck of a case could be made on the case a group of neo-cons hijacked the republican party. But if someone is labeled a democrat, for some it takes huge mental wrestling match to identify which is closer to a given voters values--rather than think, many just depend on labels.

And in many ways, Bill Clinton was far closer to republican than democratic principles.

But of the two parties, I think the repubs have been more sucessful because they use Karl Rove type values to figure out how to splinter off various voters on fringe and irrelevant issues--and their slogans seeking to simplify complex issues are simply better sound bytes
 

fallensight

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Apr 12, 2006
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The way I have always seen it is that 'liberals' want to try to use the governement to 'help' people. Welfare, medicare, money into public schools. And 'conservitives' want to try to use the governement to 'control' people. Outlawing anything they deem 'immoral' regardless of weather or not the action they want outlawed really harms anyone. Of course there are many areas where the two bleed together, but ultimatly, both want big gov to enforce thier belief system.
 

Rainsford

Lifer
Apr 25, 2001
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Originally posted by: fallensight
The way I have always seen it is that 'liberals' want to try to use the governement to 'help' people. Welfare, medicare, money into public schools. And 'conservitives' want to try to use the governement to 'control' people. Outlawing anything they deem 'immoral' regardless of weather or not the action they want outlawed really harms anyone. Of course there are many areas where the two bleed together, but ultimatly, both want big gov to enforce thier belief system.

I think it's more broad than that. It's not just a liberal/conservative split, but I think the big difference between different types of big government folks is who they are trying to help with government. Some people want to use government to help make things better for other people, some people want to use government to help makes things better for THEIR particular group.

Welfare is an effort (misguided or not) to help poor people. Those doing the helping don't benefit from it, except maybe from the good feeling they get as a result. Gay marriage bans are an effort to make society more appealing to the people in favor of gay marriage bans. The affect (positive or negative) on people who don't have a problem with gay marriage, or gay people themselves, is not a factor at all. People support gay marriage bans because they personally think they will benefit. THAT is the big moral difference, IMHO. Big government isn't really a good thing, but being in favor of it only when it helps you isn't exactly enlightened behavior.
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
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www.alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: Stunt
Americans pride themselves with their rights, freedoms, and liberties; these were the founding principles of the nation. But in the process of creation, a two party system was developed where one advocates control over social issues, the other control over economic issues.

In the end all Americans lose as the politicians wheel and deal on both social and economic issues and the founding principles suffer as a result.

Topic Title: The Cowardice of the Conservative

They are "cowardice" because of the power that economic domination gives them.

This is very evident by the spittle by the resident Republicans including folks to the north that worship them.
 

Stunt

Diamond Member
Jul 17, 2002
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Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: Stunt
Americans pride themselves with their rights, freedoms, and liberties; these were the founding principles of the nation. But in the process of creation, a two party system was developed where one advocates control over social issues, the other control over economic issues.

In the end all Americans lose as the politicians wheel and deal on both social and economic issues and the founding principles suffer as a result.
Topic Title: The Cowardice of the Conservative

They are "cowardice" because of the power that economic domination gives them.

This is very evident by the spittle by the resident Republicans including folks to the north that worship them.
Why do you continue to accuse me of being affilated or endorsing Republicans?
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,889
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www.alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: Stunt
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: Stunt
Americans pride themselves with their rights, freedoms, and liberties; these were the founding principles of the nation. But in the process of creation, a two party system was developed where one advocates control over social issues, the other control over economic issues.

In the end all Americans lose as the politicians wheel and deal on both social and economic issues and the founding principles suffer as a result.
Topic Title: The Cowardice of the Conservative

They are "cowardice" because of the power that economic domination gives them.

This is very evident by the spittle by the resident Republicans including folks to the north that worship them.
Why do you continue to accuse me of being affilated or endorsing Republicans?

Simple, your worshiping of the Corporate Whores.
 

Stunt

Diamond Member
Jul 17, 2002
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Show me examples where I have "worshipped the corporate whores", the vast majority of my posts here have been in P&N, so you have almost 7000 posts of potential evidence.
 

Excelsior

Lifer
May 30, 2002
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Originally posted by: Stunt
Americans pride themselves with their rights, freedoms, and liberties; these were the founding principles of the nation. But in the process of creation, a two party system was developed where one advocates control over social issues, the other control over economic issues.

In the end all Americans lose as the politicians wheel and deal on both social and economic issues and the founding principles suffer as a result.

:beer:
 

fitzov

Platinum Member
Jan 3, 2004
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Originally posted by: fallensight
The way I have always seen it is that 'liberals' want to try to use the governement to 'help' people. Welfare, medicare, money into public schools. And 'conservitives' want to try to use the governement to 'control' people. Outlawing anything they deem 'immoral' regardless of weather or not the action they want outlawed really harms anyone. Of course there are many areas where the two bleed together, but ultimatly, both want big gov to enforce thier belief system.

I think you're on to something there. It seems both groups want to also cater to corporations and special interests that can line their pockets.
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
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www.alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: Stunt
Originally posted by: DZip
When Bush is gone, gas will come back down to $1.50 gal. unless a Republican gets elected. Then it will be their fault. Only a Democrat President can lower gas prices by taxing oil profits. Makes sense.

Taxing profits will likely hurt share prices and dividends. To compensate for this, oil companies would likely reduce largely ineffective exploration efforts, stop spending on environmental projects (take a look at their websites, they are very much involved in emissions reductions), and layoff workers.

Companies are loyal to their owners and shareholders, whatever the government does to single out the oil and gas companies; will be a net loss in the end. Besides these stocks have been huge cash cows for retirement portfolios, while many other sectors like utilities, consumer goods, tech, healthcare and pharma are down.

The best way to tax gas is to do it at the consumer level.

Originally posted by: Stunt
Show me examples where I have "worshipped the corporate whores", the vast majority of my posts here have been in P&N, so you have almost 7000 posts of potential evidence.

Your latest post, your latest example fo your Corporate Worshipping whoring.
 

Stunt

Diamond Member
Jul 17, 2002
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I'm being a realist Dave. Nothing in life is free, it's not as simple as screwing the corporations at every chance and hope you are doing good because of it.
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,889
47
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www.alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: Stunt
I'm being a realist Dave. Nothing in life is free, it's not as simple as screwing the corporations at every chance and hope you are doing good because of it.

I didn't say anything about screwing Corporations.

What's the matter feeling guilty???
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
35,950
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Originally posted by: palehorse74
this thread basically defines P&N trolling...

Extreme use of stereotypes, that?s what we?re best at cause we?ve gotta ?take down the enemy?.

I?m conservative, so obviously to the OP I want to bend people over and take a government payroll. Glad he knows me so well, why doesn?t he write a book on me while he?s at it?
 

daniel49

Diamond Member
Jan 8, 2005
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The article also is very revealing about libertarians and why they have never and will never make a successful run at the presidency.

Although they have a few good ideas I also always see things in thier platform that sound ludicrous to me.

Drug laws are mentioned in the article and here is there platform position.
**************************************************************
The War on Drugs

The Issue: The suffering that drug misuse has brought about is deplorable; however, drug prohibition causes more harm than drugs themselves. The so-called "War on Drugs" is in reality a war against the American people, our Constitution and the Bill of Rights. It is a grave threat to individual liberty, to domestic order and to peace in the world.

The Principle: Individuals should have the right to use drugs, whether for medical or recreational purposes, without fear of legal reprisals, but must be held legally responsible for the consequences of their actions only if they violate others' rights.

Solutions: Social involvement by individuals is essential to address the problem of substance misuse and abuse. Popular education and assistance groups are a better approach than prohibition, and we support the activities of private organizations as the best way to move forward on the issue.

Transitional Action: Repeal all laws establishing criminal or civil penalties for the use of drugs. Repeal laws that infringe upon individual rights to be secure in our persons, homes, and property as protected by the Fourth Amendment. Stop the use of "anti-crime" measures such as profiling or civil asset forfeiture that reduce the standard of proof historically borne by government in prosecutions. Stop prosecuting accused non-violent drug offenders, and pardon those previously convicted.



Now they are entitled to thier opinion but I strongly disagree with it based upon my experiences and the experiences of the people I knew when I was involved with drugs at an early age. It simply is a stupid idea.

Now there ideas on crime I like:

Crime

The Issue: The continuing high level of violent crime -- and the government's demonstrated inability to deal with it -- threatens the lives, happiness and belongings of Americans. At the same time, governmental violations of rights undermine people's sense of justice with regard to crime. Victimless crime laws themselves violate individual rights and also breed genuine crime.

The Principle: The only justified function of government is the protection of the lives, rights and property of its citizens.

Solutions: The appropriate way to suppress crime is through consistent and impartial enforcement of laws that protect individual rights. We applaud the trend toward private protection services and voluntary community crime control groups.

Transitional Action: We call for an end to "hate crime" laws that punish people for their thoughts and speech, distract us from real crimes, and foster resentment by giving some individuals special status under the law. Laws pertaining to "victimless crimes" should be repealed. We support institutional changes, consistent with full respect for the rights of the accused, which would permit victims to direct the prosecution in criminal cases.
+


This sounds like good common sence. But unfortunately this is about how it goes for me as I go through thier platform.
I like that one...That ones stupid...I like that one...that ones stupid....
So although I may like some of thier ideas, many of them do not appeal to me and so I do not support them. Is that not his big spiel to stand up for what you believe?
Sorry but on a good day I might believe half thier stuff. And will try to get those things incorperated into a party that has a chance of winning
.

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