The Cost of ObamaCare

[Xellos2099]

Originally posted by: senseamp

Originally posted by: Xellos2099
The rising healthcare cost have nothing to do with the insurance. Rather than trying to fix insurance, why don't the so call democrat fix the health care cost itself.

Rising health care costs have everything to do with insurance. If you don't fix insurance, you aren't going to fix health care costs.
What is going to fix health care costs is the guy paying these costs, the employer, saying F this, I am tired of getting hosed, and telling employees to go get their own insurance.
Then employees will see what private insurance market really holds in store for them, and public option won't look so bad.

If we lower healthcare cost to affordable level, the we DON'T NEED insurance. Enough said. What came first? Health care or health insurance? Whatever came second is normally not a necessity. O i am sorry, that would mean no government insurance either...

 

[IronWing]

Turns out, Obama's plan is evil so we should oppose based on our desire for good.

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: senseamp

Originally posted by: Xellos2099
The rising healthcare cost have nothing to do with the insurance. Rather than trying to fix insurance, why don't the so call democrat fix the health care cost itself.

Rising health care costs have everything to do with insurance. If you don't fix insurance, you aren't going to fix health care costs.
What is going to fix health care costs is the guy paying these costs, the employer, saying F this, I am tired of getting hosed, and telling employees to go get their own insurance.
Then employees will see what private insurance market really holds in store for them, and public option won't look so bad.

And how is covering 30 million people that arent covered now going to lower cost?

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: senseamp

Originally posted by: Xellos2099
The rising healthcare cost have nothing to do with the insurance. Rather than trying to fix insurance, why don't the so call democrat fix the health care cost itself.

Rising health care costs have everything to do with insurance. If you don't fix insurance, you aren't going to fix health care costs.
What is going to fix health care costs is the guy paying these costs, the employer, saying F this, I am tired of getting hosed, and telling employees to go get their own insurance.
Then employees will see what private insurance market really holds in store for them, and public option won't look so bad.

And how is covering 30 million people that arent covered now going to lower cost?

Because those 30 million people ARE covered now, just in the worst possible way. We all end up paying for their health care in the emergency room... which is where they end up going. So your choices are super expensive emergency care, or less expensive preventative care.

Seriously man, this has been explained to you over and over again.

 

[Darwin333]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: senseamp

Originally posted by: Xellos2099
The rising healthcare cost have nothing to do with the insurance. Rather than trying to fix insurance, why don't the so call democrat fix the health care cost itself.

Rising health care costs have everything to do with insurance. If you don't fix insurance, you aren't going to fix health care costs.
What is going to fix health care costs is the guy paying these costs, the employer, saying F this, I am tired of getting hosed, and telling employees to go get their own insurance.
Then employees will see what private insurance market really holds in store for them, and public option won't look so bad.

And how is covering 30 million people that arent covered now going to lower cost?

Because those 30 million people ARE covered now, just in the worst possible way. We all end up paying for their health care in the emergency room... which is where they end up going. So your choices are super expensive emergency care, or less expensive preventative care.

Seriously man, this has been explained to you over and over again.

Are there any credible sources that show any of the current proposals will save any money? Even then I would be a tad bit skeptical as the Government rarely has large projects come in at or below budgeted costs. As much as I believe that reform is needed I am very much against further increasing our debt. IMHO, the bill should include tax increases at least equal to the added costs with some sort of stipulation that if/when costs are reduced then so are the taxes implemented to pay for it. Its probably one of the worst times possible to increase taxes but our borrowing is going to hit the wall very soon.

 

[Fingolfin269]

Originally posted by: Darwin333

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: senseamp

Originally posted by: Xellos2099
The rising healthcare cost have nothing to do with the insurance. Rather than trying to fix insurance, why don't the so call democrat fix the health care cost itself.

Rising health care costs have everything to do with insurance. If you don't fix insurance, you aren't going to fix health care costs.
What is going to fix health care costs is the guy paying these costs, the employer, saying F this, I am tired of getting hosed, and telling employees to go get their own insurance.
Then employees will see what private insurance market really holds in store for them, and public option won't look so bad.

And how is covering 30 million people that arent covered now going to lower cost?

Because those 30 million people ARE covered now, just in the worst possible way. We all end up paying for their health care in the emergency room... which is where they end up going. So your choices are super expensive emergency care, or less expensive preventative care.

Seriously man, this has been explained to you over and over again.

Are there any credible sources that show any of the current proposals will save any money? Even then I would be a tad bit skeptical as the Government rarely has large projects come in at or below budgeted costs. As much as I believe that reform is needed I am very much against further increasing our debt. IMHO, the bill should include tax increases at least equal to the added costs with some sort of stipulation that if/when costs are reduced then so are the taxes implemented to pay for it. Its probably one of the worst times possible to increase taxes but our borrowing is going to hit the wall very soon.

No. The minute you ask for numbers is the minute when all of the supporters duck for cover. I've asked repeatedly for specifics and never get an answer. However, when I throw out a broad statement it is immediately answered. HRMMMM.

 

[Patranus]

Why not "road test" health care reform first and see if it works.

Lets pick a state, say Obama's home state of Illinois and implement his program on a state level. If it works...fine then we can adopt it nationally. If it doesn't work then we can take the parts that do work and go back to the drawing board.

 

[sciwizam]

Originally posted by: Patranus
Why not "road test" health care reform first and see if it works.

Lets pick a state, say Obama's home state of Illinois and implement his program on a state level. If it works...fine then we can adopt it nationally. If it doesn't work then we can take the parts that do work and go back to the drawing board.

Don't you know we got to pass it right this minute, even though most of the the reform they talk about isn't gonna come online till 2013.

 

[SAWYER]

http://hotair.com/archives/200...estion-on-health-care/

 

[JohnnyGage]

Originally posted by: Patranus
Why not "road test" health care reform first and see if it works.

Lets pick a state, say Obama's home state of Illinois and implement his program on a state level. If it works...fine then we can adopt it nationally. If it doesn't work then we can take the parts that do work and go back to the drawing board.

It has been. Massachusetts, Maine, Tennessee and Hawaii all miserable failures.

Here is an interesting take on the total cost of Obama care


http://reason.tv/video/show/wo...bamacare-cover-sticker

 

[Patranus]

I just think that it is funny that the Democrats solution to everything is to "tax the evil rich"...
It is almost as if they are saying "you will never be rich so don't worry about it" and that is the wrong message to send.

Soon, 50% of people won't be paying any taxes at all because they wont face any tax liability or will have NEGATIVE tax liability.
http://www.taxfoundation.org/news/show/1410.html

What happens then? The minority IE the "evil rich" and "upper middle class" wont be able to do anything about it. The politicians will have bought the vote of the "poor" by making it so that they face zero tax liability. Good times........Just tax those people into the ground as they wont be able to do anything about it.

 

[Andrew1990]

Originally posted by: Patranus
Why not "road test" health care reform first and see if it works.

Lets pick a state, say Obama's home state of Illinois and implement his program on a state level. If it works...fine then we can adopt it nationally. If it doesn't work then we can take the parts that do work and go back to the drawing board.

Instead of Illinois, lets do this to Indiana. I never liked them Indiana Boys.

Also, this seems like a decent plan, of course the Dems will tell us it takes too much time to road test something especially when most of them don't know the layout of the bill.

 

[sportage]

Does anyone actually watch fox news?
Saturday they had, or should I say staged, a healthcare discussion with Huckahillbilly as guest. I haven?t seen such a bad info commercial as that staged mess since that guy tried to sell his thingy that chopped up onions back in the 1960's.
What is really disturbing, there are people that actual threat this as an legit news station.
What a train wreck if a station, aimed at folks with an IQ of what, maybe, 10 ???
Oh? My? God...

I have to rid this station from the directv news mix channel.
Worst than bad porn.

 

[FerrelGeek]

Originally posted by: Patranus
Why not "road test" health care reform first and see if it works.

Lets pick a state, say Obama's home state of Illinois and implement his program on a state level. If it works...fine then we can adopt it nationally. If it doesn't work then we can take the parts that do work and go back to the drawing board.

Actually, let's start with the .gov itself. Let's see if congress is willing to live under the plan that they deem 'good enough' for us. Then move on to IL, NY, MA, DE, CT, RI, and NJ. Oh yeah, only the people in those states have to pay for it during the trial.

 

[MotF Bane]

Originally posted by: FerrelGeek

Originally posted by: Patranus
Why not "road test" health care reform first and see if it works.

Lets pick a state, say Obama's home state of Illinois and implement his program on a state level. If it works...fine then we can adopt it nationally. If it doesn't work then we can take the parts that do work and go back to the drawing board.

Actually, let's start with the .gov itself. Let's see if congress is willing to live under the plan that they deem 'good enough' for us. Then move on to IL, NY, MA, DE, CT, RI, and NJ. Oh yeah, only the people in those states have to pay for it during the trial.

I like your thinking... although I'm in MA. I didn't vote for these clowns.

 

[Suspicious-Teach8788]

Originally posted by: MotF Bane

Originally posted by: FerrelGeek

Originally posted by: Patranus
Why not "road test" health care reform first and see if it works.

Lets pick a state, say Obama's home state of Illinois and implement his program on a state level. If it works...fine then we can adopt it nationally. If it doesn't work then we can take the parts that do work and go back to the drawing board.

Actually, let's start with the .gov itself. Let's see if congress is willing to live under the plan that they deem 'good enough' for us. Then move on to IL, NY, MA, DE, CT, RI, and NJ. Oh yeah, only the people in those states have to pay for it during the trial.

I like your thinking... although I'm in MA. I didn't vote for these clowns.

How well is the MA program working? I see some articles saying it's a failure. Others say it's great and because of that we should have UHC. Shrug.