The corporate media's propaganda about the "labor shortage" is disgusting

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woolfe9998

Lifer
Apr 8, 2013
16,189
14,114
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The labor shortage is mostly in low pay jobs. The people in those jobs are not heavily invested in equity markets. They are mostly living paycheck to paycheck people.

Trucking and longshoremen are mainly union. They have pension plans.

As to low wage jobs, they are often filled by recent immigrants. Legal immigration declined year over year under Trump. A labor shortage was an expected outcome which was pointed out at the time.


My personal experience with people choosing not to return to work is that they have became disillusioned from the idea that they were getting equitable treatment by the companies they worked for. These companies had no problem throwing them away or asking them to risk their life when it suited them. Calling them 'essential workers' but then in the next breath reminding them they were expendable.

Now they want to find a better way to trade their labor for money. Many have joined the gig-economy. Others found out that they could make nearly as much money as their low paying jobs earned them by turning a hobby into a job. Still others have decided that there is no reason to worry about a job that does not worry about them, and quit at the drop of a hat because they can always find another near minimum wage job.

Basically the illusion that they have to accept whatever shit their manager throws at them has been burst, now workers are demanding better treatment or better pay, and the companies are not yet willing to do either.

Not sure if these factors are different enough from the past now to explain current behavior.
 

pmv

Lifer
May 30, 2008
13,634
8,522
136
I get the sense that we're firmly on the path of permanently replacing some people jobs with machines. Can't find enough truck drivers to move loads and stay in DOT compliance? Self-driving trucks to the rescue. Can't find enough teens to work a fast food joint at $8/hour? I'll lease you a fleet of robots for less than $4/hour each (and you don't have to share tips or provide any benefits!) Throw in a few drone bots to replace longshoremen and we can start unloading your boat before you're even docked.

I didn't think we'd get there until 2050 or so, but now I think the Great Resignation is moving up the timetable for AI job replacement by at least a decade.

Well, there is an argument that the availability of cheap labour slows down technological progress and leads to a lack of investment in production facilities. Why bother to invent better machines or spend money on buying and installing them, if workers can be made to work for peanuts?
 

Roger Wilco

Diamond Member
Mar 20, 2017
4,138
6,167
136
Taco Bell in the ghetto over here is hiring at $18/hour. For a minimum wage worker, that’s Oprah money.
 

Harry_Wild

Senior member
Dec 14, 2012
841
152
106
Entry level hiring standards now have gone back to pre pandemic levels. I talk a Taco Bell restaurant manager that I frequent and he has to wait till 50 people submit an application to start the hiring process to hire one employee. He said the back when he got hire(20 yrs ago), if the manager like you, you were in! Now, it just a process of #s. Sad they made it so mechanical
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,422
14,336
136
There's a right-to-repair youtuber called Louis Rossmann who has a great take on this. Basically it's that the companies having so much trouble hiring this year are the same ones who laid everybody off in 2020. And who the hell wants to go back to work for them? Just sayin. Anyway, worth the watch cause he pretty much nails it.

 
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SMOGZINN

Lifer
Jun 17, 2005
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Trucking and longshoremen are mainly union. They have pension plans.

Don't know anything about longshoremen, but I know a bunch of truckers. There is several problems in the trucking industry. The main one being that a law recently went into place requiring mandatory random drug screening. That alone accounted for more then half the trucker labor shortage. The other problems is that long haul trucking (where the majority of the labor shortage is for trucking) is a terrible job that few people stick with long, and now Amazon and other package truck delivery companies are hiring anyone with a CDL at comparable pay to the big trucking companies, and their need for drivers seems to be bottomless. So, people are quitting long haul trucking to drive Amazon vans and deliver groceries. The final issue is that there is a overall feel in the long haul trucking industry that there is no future in it, that the job will be automated soon. Most people get in to get their CDL, put their mandatory one or two years in, then go drive for Amazon or UPS.


As to low wage jobs, they are often filled by recent immigrants. Legal immigration declined year over year under Trump. A labor shortage was an expected outcome which was pointed out at the time.
You are right. Not much to say there. The GOP's war on immigration has had the predictable outcome.


Not sure if these factors are different enough from the past now to explain current behavior.
The factors are not much different, but peoples views of them are. A lot of people didn't realize just how little companies cared about them. The lockdown was a eye opener to many who realized that not only did the company not care if they starved to death or not, but that they could get buy reasonable well without that low paying job.
 

hal2kilo

Lifer
Feb 24, 2009
24,222
10,877
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Don't know anything about longshoremen, but I know a bunch of truckers. There is several problems in the trucking industry. The main one being that a law recently went into place requiring mandatory random drug screening. That alone accounted for more then half the trucker labor shortage. The other problems is that long haul trucking (where the majority of the labor shortage is for trucking) is a terrible job that few people stick with long, and now Amazon and other package truck delivery companies are hiring anyone with a CDL at comparable pay to the big trucking companies, and their need for drivers seems to be bottomless. So, people are quitting long haul trucking to drive Amazon vans and deliver groceries. The final issue is that there is a overall feel in the long haul trucking industry that there is no future in it, that the job will be automated soon. Most people get in to get their CDL, put their mandatory one or two years in, then go drive for Amazon or UPS.



You are right. Not much to say there. The GOP's war on immigration has had the predictable outcome.



The factors are not much different, but peoples views of them are. A lot of people didn't realize just how little companies cared about them. The lockdown was a eye opener to many who realized that not only did the company not care if they starved to death or not, but that they could get buy reasonable well without that low paying job.
Every time I mentioned piss testing as the 800 lb gorilla for hiring truckers, I got crickets here. Or maybe when I say UA testing people eyes roll back in their heads, because they don't know what it means.
 

sportage

Lifer
Feb 1, 2008
11,492
3,161
136
Why pay McDonalds peons $15 an hour when we pay EMTs $13 an hour? Checkmate motherfuckers!

One McDonald's near me posted a help wanted sign offering $15 an hour but with a catch. That catch, the $15 an hour only kicked in after 9pm. The establishment is only open until 11pm. And so.... yeah you can make $15 an hour but only for two hours from 9pm thru closing as 11pm. Ohhhhh boyyyy, what a deal. :rolleyes:

And THIS is exactly why no one wants to work especially low wage jobs, because owners and managers are ASS HOLES. Always pulling the gimmicks and thinking of ways to screw their employees.

I knew of one Baskin Robins ice cream store owned by a couple from India. They withheld taxes from employee paychecks but never turned that money over to the federal IRS nor state IRS. The husband and wife owner simply decided to keep that money for themselves. Then, the IRS went after every employee for failure to pay taxes. Eventually the truth came out and the owner was held accountable, and fined. The owner, husband and wife, claimed... HEY, WE'RE FROM INDIA. WE NEVER UNDERSTOOD HOW TAXES WORK. And again, owners and managers like this with always pulling crap like this is why no one wants to work. I mean, who needs to put up with this shit? Especially low wage workers who just want a fair deal and a decent wage.
 
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Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,422
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136
Again, just displaying his typical shithead intellectual dishonesty. As if only one segment of the working population would have its pay increased while everyone else stays stagnant. Idiot.
I honestly don't know why you guys waste your time arguing with someone so dishonest that they provided one example of a fast food worker being promoted to manager, and then tried to argue that every McD's burger flipper was making manager salaries.
That troll has never once made a honest argument, I swear. The part where he cherrypicked some data showing RN trainees making sub-$50k wages when most RNs make 6 figures was just comical.
 

NWRMidnight

Diamond Member
Jun 18, 2001
3,038
2,652
136
Not sure about assumptions made here regarding the cause(s) of this labor shortage. One cause is people taking early retirement, in part because surging equity markets have increased the value of retirement accounts. Another is clearly fear of COVID transmission in the work place. Another may be Trump's restrictive immigration policies.

Not sure why all the sudden people don't want jobs because of crappy pay and working conditions when worker pay and conditions were similar before COVID. Indeed, they aren't much different from 10 years ago when the vast majority returned to work when jobs opened up.

My best guess is that pay and conditions are factoring in as a second order effect. Meaning that there was initially a shortage for several other reasons, and now people who are not working see it as an opportunity to bargain for better pay and conditions because they know how desperate some companies are for workers. However, it's far and away not the only reason for this shortage.
Even the article the OP put up says people now have choices now. but he pretty much ignored the article itself.. but that is what happens when you read it with glasses that only allow one insterpitation. It's like being color blind and bitching that a painting has no color in it.

The labor shortage is mostly in low pay jobs. The people in those jobs are not heavily invested in equity markets. They are mostly living paycheck to paycheck people.



My personal experience with people choosing not to return to work is that they have became disillusioned from the idea that they were getting equitable treatment by the companies they worked for. These companies had no problem throwing them away or asking them to risk their life when it suited them. Calling them 'essential workers' but then in the next breath reminding them they were expendable.

Now they want to find a better way to trade their labor for money. Many have joined the gig-economy. Others found out that they could make nearly as much money as their low paying jobs earned them by turning a hobby into a job. Still others have decided that there is no reason to worry about a job that does not worry about them, and quit at the drop of a hat because they can always find another near minimum wage job.

Basically the illusion that they have to accept whatever shit their manager throws at them has been burst, now workers are demanding better treatment or better pay, and the companies are not yet willing to do either.

I agree with most of this, but it isn't just mostly in low paying jobs. In in all markets, and all levels, it just appears that low paying jobs (retail) is being hit the hardest because their shortages are the most visible to the general population. There are also companies who need to hire help but don't, making it look like they don't need help, when they really do. Then there are companies who drag their feet hiring to "manipulate" the financials to make their investors happy. This last one has been going on since the beginning of the year where I work, and they have now taken our bonus away because we don't have the manpower to keep up, with the excuse they have started hiring now, but need to keep their investors happy. The problem now is they are not getting enough people to apply. Before the "they need to pay more" crowd chimes in, lowest position (janitor) starts at $50k a year ($23.87 hr) plus full benefits.
 
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Paratus

Lifer
Jun 4, 2004
17,117
14,484
146
One McDonald's near me posted a help wanted sign offering $15 an hour but with a catch. That catch, the $15 an hour only kicked in after 9pm. The establishment is only open until 11pm. And so.... yeah you can make $15 an hour but only for two hours from 9pm thru closing as 11pm. Ohhhhh boyyyy, what a deal. :rolleyes:

And THIS is exactly why no one wants to work especially low wage jobs, because owners and managers are ASS HOLES. Always pulling the gimmicks and thinking of ways to screw their employees.

I knew of one Baskin Robins ice cream store owned by a couple from India. They withheld taxes from employee paychecks but never turned that money over to the federal IRS nor state IRS. The husband and wife owner simply decided to keep that money for themselves. Then, the IRS went after every employee for failure to pay taxes. Eventually the truth came out and the owner was held accountable, and fined. The owner, husband and wife, claimed... HEY, WE'RE FROM INDIA. WE NEVER UNDERSTOOD HOW TAXES WORK. And again, owners and managers like this with always pulling crap like this is why no one wants to work. I mean, who needs to put up with this shit? Especially low wage workers who just want a fair deal and a decent wage.
90

Steal $100 you’re going to jail.
Steal $100,000s from your workers - eh
 
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JD50

Lifer
Sep 4, 2005
11,754
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I honestly don't know why you guys waste your time arguing with someone so dishonest that they provided one example of a fast food worker being promoted to manager, and then tried to argue that every McD's burger flipper was making manager salaries.
That troll has never once made a honest argument, I swear. The part where he cherrypicked some data showing RN trainees making sub-$50k wages when most RNs make 6 figures was just comical.

Not to mention the fact that fast food managers work crazy fucking hours, I'd love to see the effective hourly rate of that 50k salary.
 
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blackangst1

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
22,902
2,359
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I honestly don't know why you guys waste your time arguing with someone so dishonest that they provided one example of a fast food worker being promoted to manager, and then tried to argue that every McD's burger flipper was making manager salaries.
That troll has never once made a honest argument, I swear. The part where he cherrypicked some data showing RN trainees making sub-$50k wages when most RNs make 6 figures was just comical.

Please dispute my source. Come on. I know you can.
 

blackangst1

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
22,902
2,359
126
I honestly don't know why you guys waste your time arguing with someone so dishonest that they provided one example of a fast food worker being promoted to manager, and then tried to argue that every McD's burger flipper was making manager salaries.
That troll has never once made a honest argument, I swear. The part where he cherrypicked some data showing RN trainees making sub-$50k wages when most RNs make 6 figures was just comical.

Source?
 

blackangst1

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
22,902
2,359
126
Try scrolling down your own source. Lol

I did

LOL indeed.

edit: I was commenting on starting salaries, ifyou cared to re-read my quote. Again,:

The starting salary of a Registered Nurse can range from around $28,000-$50,000 per year, depending on location and job industry. The starting hourly wage of an RN can range from $16.50-26.00 per hour.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,422
14,336
136
Not to mention the fact that fast food managers work crazy fucking hours, I'd love to see the effective hourly rate of that 50k salary.
Not only that, but fast food manager salaries have been stuck around $50k for the last 20 years or so.
I mean, imagine managing 20 or more direct reports in a difficult and demanding environment.. and only making $50k.
 
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Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,422
14,336
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I did

LOL indeed.

edit: I was commenting on starting salaries, ifyou cared to re-read my quote. Again,:

The starting salary of a Registered Nurse can range from around $28,000-$50,000 per year, depending on location and job industry. The starting hourly wage of an RN can range from $16.50-26.00 per hour.

"According to the BLS, the top-paying nurse salaries were earned in California ($113,240), Hawaii ($104,060), District of Columbia ($94,820), Massachusetts ($93,160) and Oregon ($92,960)."

And that's just the average salaries. Most RNs, especially those in hospitals, earn copious amounts of OT, shift differential, special duty, and on-call pay.

Meanwhile, your 'starting pay' bullshit is just another part of your straw man that this discussion is about teenage workers, when it absolutely is not.
 

blackangst1

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
22,902
2,359
126
"According to the BLS, the top-paying nurse salaries were earned in California ($113,240), Hawaii ($104,060), District of Columbia ($94,820), Massachusetts ($93,160) and Oregon ($92,960)."

And that's just the average salaries. Most RNs, especially those in hospitals, earn copious amounts of OT, shift differential, special duty, and on-call pay.

Meanwhile, your 'starting pay' bullshit is just another part of your straw man that this discussion is about teenage workers, when it absolutely is not.

"top paying salaries"

Teenage workers are not typically nurses you clown.

Ill ask you...what do you think is a fair wage for someone to take your order for a happy meal? Last answer was 50k/year

LOL
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,422
14,336
136
"top paying salaries"

Teenage workers are not typically nurses you clown.
Top paying salaries among the 50 states. JFC read you own sources.

And I wasn't the one who tried to claim that fast food burger flippers make more than RNs by comparing fast food manager salaries against starting RN salaries.