The Conomist The Nordic countries - The next supermodel

[randomrogue]

So there are no M3's in Denmark then? 10,700 new cars last year?

 

[randomrogue]

1 Ferrari, 1 Porsche. Kinda an interesting list really.

 

[ShintaiDK]

So there are no M3's in Denmark then? 10,700 new cars last year?

170765 cars last year.

I think the M3 is under BMW 3´ER with other models.

 

[PingviN]

What about Norway? I thought Norway was the really expensive country in Scandinavia.

Norway is, but Norwegians also have higher salaries.

Edit: not as far as cars are concerned though, the Prius starts at $51k. Dunno why the Danes hate cars so much
Edit2: probably 'cause Denmark is real tiny

 

[randomrogue]

Can you buy a car in any EU nation though? Californians can't really buy cars out of state because of smog emission controls built into the car. Maybe a small trip to a cheaper country would be worth it to a Scandinavian?

 

[ShintaiDK]

Can you buy a car in any EU nation though? Californians can't really buy cars out of state because of smog emission controls built into the car. Maybe a small trip to a cheaper country would be worth it to a Scandinavian?

You can, but if you use it mainly in Denmark for example you need to register it and pay the tax.

 

[Carfax83]

How on Earth do Danes put up with such outrageous taxation? Thats just beyond me... D:

Anyway, I'm sure we've all seen the reports that the Danes are the happiest people in the World. Now having been to Denmark, I may have to dispute that claim. From my admittedly short experience, Danes are pretty damn gloomy and reserved. Not very polite either, at least by American standards..

If they bump into you accidentally, they just keep on moving. No "sorry" or anything. This happened to me several times when I was in Denmark. In Aarhus in a club, this guy damn near knocked me over. Dude just kept rolling though like nothing happened. If that had happened in the U.S, there would have been a fight to be sure..

And it wasn't just happening to me. Plenty of other people in my squadron reported the same experience. If you opened doors for people, they walked straight through. No thank you or anything.

I've read that Denmark has among the highest rate of antidepressant and alcohol abuse in the World, so perhaps thats a better indication of the overall mental health of the Danes, rather than some survey..

Also, the schools and hospitals aren't as good as ShintaiDK would like us to believe. With these outrageous taxes you guys are paying, you should have the best schools and the best hospitals. But the truth is you don't.

The U.S has the best Universities in the World, and the best healthcare if you can afford it.

Honestly, I'm not trying to slam Denmark. I found the country overall to be a nice place. However, I feel it's necessary to rebuke the myth of the Danish paradise.. Denmark has it's fair share of problems just like every other nation..

One thing I will admit to though, is that my critique of Denmark was spurred on by ShintaiDK's obvious anti American sentiment

 

[ShintaiDK]

How on Earth do Danes put up with such outrageous taxation? Thats just beyond me... D:

Anyway, I'm sure we've all seen the reports that the Danes are the happiest people in the World. Now having been to Denmark, I may have to dispute that claim. From my admittedly short experience, Danes are pretty damn gloomy and reserved. Not very polite either, at least by American standards..

If they bump into you accidentally, they just keep on moving. No "sorry" or anything. This happened to me several times when I was in Denmark. In Aarhus in a club, this guy damn near knocked me over. Dude just kept rolling though like nothing happened. If that had happened in the U.S, there would have been a fight to be sure..

And it wasn't just happening to me. Plenty of other people in my squadron reported the same experience. If you opened doors for people, they walked straight through. No thank you or anything.

I've read that Denmark has among the highest rate of antidepressant and alcohol abuse in the World, so perhaps thats a better indication of the overall mental health of the Danes, rather than some survey..

Also, the schools and hospitals aren't as good as ShintaiDK would like us to believe. With these outrageous taxes you guys are paying, you should have the best schools and the best hospitals. But the truth is you don't.

The U.S has the best Universities in the World, and the best healthcare if you can afford it.

Honestly, I'm not trying to slam Denmark. I found the country overall to be a nice place. However, I feel it's necessary to rebuke the myth of the Danish paradise.. Denmark has it's fair share of problems just like every other nation..

One thing I will admit to though, is that my critique of Denmark was spurred on by ShintaiDK's obvious anti American sentiment

How on earth do americans put up with so low wages and hardly any welfare? Thats just beyond me.

11% of americans are on antidepressants. Its around 5.5% in Denmark.

Atleast stick to facts if you wish to use it as example. All countries got problems, some just got more than others.

 

[PingviN]

The U.S has the best Universities in the World, and the best healthcare if you can afford it.

Also has a population of 5.000.000. To be compared with the 315.000.000 of the US.

 

[randomrogue]

I don't think there's a perfect country so trying to have that debate is relatively stupid. There's a lot that Scandinavia can learn from the USA and visa versa.

One thing is certain though. The USA is losing ground and needs to improve.

 

[biostud]

I don't think there's a perfect country so trying to have that debate is relatively stupid. There's a lot that Scandinavia can learn from the USA and visa versa.

One thing is certain though. The USA is losing ground and needs to improve.

I think that having the discussion is actually learning from each other.

 

[biostud]

How on Earth do Danes put up with such outrageous taxation? Thats just beyond me... D:

Anyway, I'm sure we've all seen the reports that the Danes are the happiest people in the World. Now having been to Denmark, I may have to dispute that claim. From my admittedly short experience, Danes are pretty damn gloomy and reserved. Not very polite either, at least by American standards..

If they bump into you accidentally, they just keep on moving. No "sorry" or anything. This happened to me several times when I was in Denmark. In Aarhus in a club, this guy damn near knocked me over. Dude just kept rolling though like nothing happened. If that had happened in the U.S, there would have been a fight to be sure..

And it wasn't just happening to me. Plenty of other people in my squadron reported the same experience. If you opened doors for people, they walked straight through. No thank you or anything.

I think that's some of the cultural difference. Not a general measurement of overall happiness. I think that when they do these happiness comparisons that more of the US population fear loss of job, getting ill, loosing health care than Scandinavians, and therefore we have have very few who actually have a negative expectation of the future and their life. But also not having a negative view on the future is not the same has happiness, so just because very few score negatively doesn't automatically make them happy.

There's generally just a larger difference between top and bottom in the US than the Scandinavian countries, for better and worse.

 

[Puddle Jumper]

In Denmark the cheapest Toyota prius is ~$77.000.

IS there a specific car you would like to find the price of?

I'd happily take the US system with all of it's downsides over a system where a freaking Prius costs more than a Mercedes CLS550 does here.

I'm almost afraid to ask but how big is the average house and how much does it cost?

 

[biostud]

I'd happily take the US system with all of it's downsides over a system where a freaking Prius costs more than a Mercedes CLS550 does here.

I'm almost afraid to ask but how big is the average house and how much does it cost?

It depends on whether it's countryside or central Copenhagen but for an average apartment in Copenhagen it's ~$3500 pr. square m. to buy. I pay ~$1300 a month in rent for a 55 m^2 apartment in central Aarhus (same prices as Copenhagen).

 

[Acanthus]

It depends on whether it's countryside or central Copenhagen but for an average apartment in Copenhagen it's ~$3500 pr. square m. to buy. I pay ~$1300 a month in rent for a 55 m^2 apartment in central Aarhus (same prices as Copenhagen).

That's no worse than any major US city. NYC and LA are worse. (assuming your place is nice as well as the square footage)

 

[Broheim]

It depends on whether it's countryside or central Copenhagen but for an average apartment in Copenhagen it's ~$3500 pr. square m. to buy. I pay ~$1300 a month in rent for a 55 m^2 apartment in central Aarhus (same prices as Copenhagen).

yeah, prices here in Århus are really out of whack, I wish my parents would have bought an apartment years ago when the prices were sane :/

and instead of doing shit about it for students like me they build multimillion dollar penthouses like that *Lighthouse project down by the harbour.

 

[biostud]

That's no worse than any major US city. NYC and LA are worse. (assuming your place is nice as well as the square footage)

I'm pretty sure they have better weather in LA. I think Copenhagen is the 3rd most expensive city to live in, only bested by NY and London.

And the car prices are only so high because of special taxation on cars. Property doesn't have 105-180% taxes

 

[Carfax83]

How on earth do americans put up with so low wages and hardly any welfare? Thats just beyond me.

We put up with it easily, because the overall cost of living is much lower in the U.S, and we don't have to pay ridiculous taxes to the government for mediocre benefits.

11% of americans are on antidepressants. Its around 5.5% in Denmark.

The reason why I posted that was because Denmark is often quoted as being the happiest nation on Earth. However, they also have the highest rate of antidepressant use in Europe, if not the World.

Denmark is also the nation that has the most people leaving the work force due to mental illness

Another stark contrast..

 

[Carfax83]

Also has a population of 5.000.000. To be compared with the 315.000.000 of the US.

It doesn't matter. If population was a major factor in the quality of healthcare and schooling, then China and India would have superior healthcare and schooling compared to the U.S, but obviously that isn't true.

 

[Carfax83]

I don't think there's a perfect country so trying to have that debate is relatively stupid. There's a lot that Scandinavia can learn from the USA and visa versa.

One thing is certain though. The USA is losing ground and needs to improve.

Yes, we all agree that there is a lot the U.S can learn from Scandinavia, and a lot Scandinavia can learn from the U.S..

What I am getting at though, is that the grass isn't always greener on the other side.

It's easy to praise Denmark when you find out they have free healthcare and free schooling, but when you look at the price they pay in taxes (and not to mention the actual quality of the healthcare and schooling), then things don't look nearly as good.

 

[Carfax83]

I think that's some of the cultural difference. Not a general measurement of overall happiness. I think that when they do these happiness comparisons that more of the US population fear loss of job, getting ill, loosing health care than Scandinavians, and therefore we have have very few who actually have a negative expectation of the future and their life. But also not having a negative view on the future is not the same has happiness, so just because very few score negatively doesn't automatically make them happy.

That's actually a pretty good explanation

Because subjectively, it seems to me that Americans are happier than Danes, at least going by their behavior. So that kind of threw me off..

There's generally just a larger difference between top and bottom in the US than the Scandinavian countries, for better and worse.

I agree 100%.. But I also think anyone that applies themselves can and will find success here in the U.S...

The people that are chronically at the bottom of the barrel generation after generation are there due to their own choices...

It's a fact of life, that there are people that have much lower aspirations than others. I work at an Airport where there are janitors that have been cleaning the same building for close to 30 years, making barely above minimum wage. You wonder why they would stay in such a position for so long, but as I said, some people just aren't motivated to better themselves..

 

[PingviN]

It doesn't matter. If population was a major factor in the quality of healthcare and schooling, then China and India would have superior healthcare and schooling compared to the U.S, but obviously that isn't true.

Obviously comparing India and China to the Nordics or the US is flawed. Come back in 50-100 years.

 

[Olikan]

It's easy to praise Denmark when you find out they have free healthcare and free schooling, but when you look at the price they pay in taxes (and not to mention the actual quality of the healthcare and schooling), then things don't look nearly as good.

dude, now imagine if you were poorer...

 

[biostud]

That's actually a pretty good explanation

Because subjectively, it seems to me that Americans are happier than Danes, at least going by their behavior. So that kind of threw me off..



I agree 100%.. But I also think anyone that applies themselves can and will find success here in the U.S...

The people that are chronically at the bottom of the barrel generation after generation are there due to their own choices...

It's a fact of life, that there are people that have much lower aspirations than others. I work at an Airport where there are janitors that have been cleaning the same building for close to 30 years, making barely above minimum wage. You wonder why they would stay in such a position for so long, but as I said, some people just aren't motivated to better themselves..

I work as a teacher and know how much parents influence their kids and how well they behave learn etc. You can say that everybody potentially has the same possibilities, but some has to work like 1000 times harder to get to the same level than others. If your parents are well educated and you grow up in a good neighborhood, go to the good schools with few social problems then you will have a far more easy way to the top than if you grow up with in a place with many social problems, and have parents with no education.

Some of the idea of the welfare state is exactly to help all children (and even their messed up parents) to improve their quality of life to such a point that it will be easier to get an education and work yourself out of misery. That costs a lot of money, and in many cases it's probably "bad investments" but even so, it helps keeping crime rates low and add a lot of security to those who might not have the best skills to take care of themselves or their children.

We have a lot of debates on where we have to cut spending as all other economies, and therefore this is also being cut in Denmark. As I've said before I don't think there will ever be a "Utopia" and we all have different history and culture, but I think that a society which is not trying to adapt to a changing world, or are not willing to face the problems at hand and deal with the problems is going to lag behind, and at some time the problems will catch up.

 

[1prophet]

This thread isn't a platform for you to rant about teenage pregnancy. If you want to discuss it then compare it to the other nations in question. The USA has 4x the teenage pregnancy rate of the EU. This might have something to do with a lack of easy access to contraceptives. In Europe family planning is free and easily accessible.

You're not going to stop people from having sex. You need to provide proper access to healthcare and we don't do that in the USA.

Population and demographics don't change the fact that we simply don't provide services for our population that just about every other developed nation does.

Maybe its cultural, they are not afraid to show you the potential consequences of being a baby daddy/momma.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xWkZ_StRjU0

as opposed to here were we parade them on national stage like the Palins, give them a million dollar magazine cover like Jamie Spears and make it look like its cool to pop out babies without the thought of the consequences like that high school that had a getting pregnant competition http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1816486,00.html.