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The Congressman Who Restricted Gun Violence Research Has Regrets

ivwshane

Lifer
The Congressman Who Restricted Gun Violence Research Has Regrets

Could've, would've, should've...

It's always nice to see people have a change of heart, it's just too bad his decision could have negatively affected millions.

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/561333d7e4b022a4ce5f45bf

No surprise here:

After the Dickey amendment passed in '96, the Knight Ridder media chain did an analysis of the vote. It discovered that three-quarters of those who backed the measure had received a collective $1.6 million from the NRA that calendar year. Only six of the 158 members who opposed the measure had received support from the gun lobby.


Damn that shifty Obama! /s

President Barack Obama instructed federal agencies to interpret the Dickey amendment literally -- as a restriction on funds for advocacy, not on funds for research.
 
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"mass shootings pile up"

Do they, do they really? How many people have died in mass shootings in the past year by your count?
 
"mass shootings pile up"

Do they, do they really? How many people have died in mass shootings in the past year by your count?

I don't care as it's irrelevant to the point of the thread. If it makes you feel better you can ignore any of the writers opinion/bias.
 
What is the point of the thread? Yet another gun control debate, "everyone should give up their guns because a congress critter did a thing one time?"

Break it down for me. I like my rights, and you know that makes me a simpleton.
 
What is the point of the thread? Yet another gun control debate, "everyone should give up their guns because a congress critter did a thing one time?"

Break it down for me. I like my rights, and you know that makes me a simpleton.

I like your rights too! Here is another thing I bet we both have in common; we like laws that make sense and address the issue and not the symptom! Am I right?

Here is something you might agree with; law makers can make better laws the better the information they have to base those laws on.

Now here is something you might not agree with because your ego may prevent it: A start to good gun laws would be to have a comprehensive understanding of the issue and we can gain that understanding by studying the issue.

So perhaps instead of gun nuts (and it is gun nuts that are preventing this as pro gun users support good laws) blocking any debate or any attempt at addressing gun violence and instead of supporting the opposite of that view (the removal of all guns), a good start all rational people can agree on would be to allow the studying of the issue by the federal government (like it does for many other issues) that is currently prohibited😉
 
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I like your rights too! Here is another thing I bet we both have in common; we like laws that make sense and address the issue and not the symptom! Am I right?

Here is something you might agree with; law makers can make better laws the better the information they have to base those laws on.

Now here is something you might not agree with because your ego may prevent it: A start to good gun laws would be to have a comprehensive understanding of the issue and we can gain that understanding by studying the issue.

So perhaps instead of gun nuts (and it is gun nuts that are preventing this as pro gun users support good laws) blocking any debate or any attempt at addressing gun violence and instead of supporting the opposite of that view (the removal of all guns), a good start all rational people can agree on would be to allow the studying of the issue by the federal government (like it does for many other issues) that is currently prohibited😉

I don't think you do. I don't think you do. Therefore no, I do not think you are right.

They could, but they haven't so I have very little faith that they will in the future.

A start to good gun laws would be getting rid of the ones that have done nothing. Good luck selling that to the anti-rights factions and the anti-rights factions that still won't admit it.

I have a feeling that, particularly under this administration, the research would start at a conclusion and work from there. I mean, there's already some federal research why not start with that? Also, I found this prehashing of your article from 2012.
 
What is the point of the thread? Yet another gun control debate, "everyone should give up their guns because a congress critter did a thing one time?"

Break it down for me. I like my rights, and you know that makes me a simpleton.

Research is undermining your rights!
 
I like your rights too! Here is another thing I bet we both have in common; we like laws that make sense and address the issue and not the symptom! Am I right?

Here is something you might agree with; law makers can make better laws the better the information they have to base those laws on.

Now here is something you might not agree with because your ego may prevent it: A start to good gun laws would be to have a comprehensive understanding of the issue and we can gain that understanding by studying the issue.

So perhaps instead of gun nuts (and it is gun nuts that are preventing this as pro gun users support good laws) blocking any debate or any attempt at addressing gun violence and instead of supporting the opposite of that view (the removal of all guns), a good start all rational people can agree on would be to allow the studying of the issue by the federal government (like it does for many other issues) that is currently prohibited😉

I totally agree. But we're not dealing with rational people who are looking for a balanced solution to the problem. The rational folks are the ones who, poll after poll, always make up the majority in those polls that would like better background checks and better registration procedures to better weed out the nutjobs and law breakers who should not own firearms.

These folks simply want an improvement of an existing tracking system, of which the paranoid delusional sector of the firearm enthusiast demographic can ONLY see as the horrific slippery slope ending with the 2A being struck down and all their toys being taken away. To them it's a real threat, as silly as that is. It would be guaranteed political suicide for any politician to push for that.

And why is it that the nutjobs among gun owners are OK with the fact that we can't own RPG's, full auto assault rifles (in most instances), grenades, trailered rocket launchers and heavy caliber machine guns but are scared shitless when anyone even mentions that improved background checks and registration procedures will help keep firearms out of the hands of those who shouldn't have them?

Or is it that those nutjobs actually and truly feel that under the 2A, any law abiding citizen is supposed to be able to own a Ma Deuce and a fully capable StG 44 or an A4 complete with M203, and that anything less is already a clear violation of the 2A?

I mean surely, the more damage you can do against a mob of anarchists looking to loot your house and rape your wife and kids has got to be a good thing, right? So what's wrong with having a cache of M64's and a stockpile of M18's and some NOS M14's? The 2A should allow that shouldn't it?

Delusional gun nuts should not be the ones who control the narrative over the subject of better background checks and registration procedures. It should be those enthusiasts that are realists, you know, the MAJORITY of that demographic that make the decisions.

If only the profit-driven NRA would just excuse themselves from the decision making process maybe something good can get done.
 
I don't think you do. I don't think you do. Therefore no, I do not think you are right.

Well that's a clever way to put your fingers in your ears.

They could, but they haven't so I have very little faith that they will in the future.

They haven't? Maybe your experience is only with a republican congress, so yeah I guess you are right. It's hard to pass good laws when you are hell bent on breaking government.

A start to good gun laws would be getting rid of the ones that have done nothing. Good luck selling that to the anti-rights factions and the anti-rights factions that still won't admit it.

Laws typically aren't removed unless a better one is also passed. So no, it's probably not possible to sell the American public on repealing existing gun laws while not providing a better solution. Has obamacare taught you nothing?

I have a feeling that, particularly under this administration, the research would start at a conclusion and work from there. I mean, there's already some federal research why not start with that?
It is a start. So what did it say?

Also, I found this prehashing of your article from 2012.

I don't understand the relevance of your last link. What is it I'm supposed to be looking at?
 
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My excel says 379, I subtracted 89 for the times only one person died (because I didn't really feel like crafting a better formula) to bring us to 290. I also noted that this includes all "mass shootings" they could find records for and not just the televised ones that get attention. Good for them, too bad their data only gets posted now.

Still, there have been 399 homicides ytd in Chicago alone (yes, I can see there are 13 instances of Chicago, IL on the spreadsheet) and only a handful (relatively) of newsworthy spree killings. Also, there are only 191 unique values in the "where" field. I might get to more statistical analysis later on, but perhaps we should find out what those 191 places have in common before we blame the millions of guns that aren't killing people in the millions of places that aren't on that spreadsheet.
 
I don't understand the relevance of your last link. What is it I'm supposed to be looking at?

Your commentary is in my quote. I'm not going to parse it. My last link has the same information as your OP, only it was published years ago. This thread isn't very timely.
 
My excel says 379, I subtracted 89 for the times only one person died (because I didn't really feel like crafting a better formula) to bring us to 290. I also noted that this includes all "mass shootings" they could find records for and not just the televised ones that get attention. Good for them, too bad their data only gets posted now.

Still, there have been 399 homicides ytd in Chicago alone (yes, I can see there are 13 instances of Chicago, IL on the spreadsheet) and only a handful (relatively) of newsworthy spree killings. Also, there are only 191 unique values in the "where" field. I might get to more statistical analysis later on, but perhaps we should find out what those 191 places have in common before we blame the millions of guns that aren't killing people in the millions of places that aren't on that spreadsheet.

Impressive. They should do some kind of gun violence research to validate or discredit some of this information......
 
Your commentary is in my quote. I'm not going to parse it. My last link has the same information as your OP, only it was published years ago. This thread isn't very timely.

It's not very timely? Could have fooled me, you yourself seem to be irritated by yet another gun control thread. Hmm... I wonder why there is this surge of gun threads?
 
It's not very timely? Could have fooled me, you yourself seem to be irritated by yet another gun control thread. Hmm... I wonder why there is this surge of gun threads?

I don't understand why they're multiplying when you're posting the same things over and over again. What congresspeople x,y, and z did years ago didn't persuade anyone years ago the first time the sad story was published. What is new here?

Reposting myself from one of the other threads, a post that no one wanted to argue against presumably because facts trump opinions.

http://www.policeone.com/Gun-Legisl...-Survey-11-key-findings-on-officers-thoughts/

For the record, you have to prove that you're a LEO to access most parts of the site.

Spoilers:
gun-surveyQ4.gif

gun-surveyQ16.gif

So, why don't you take the time to read through that CDC survey I already posted and come up with some new ideas?
 

That list is just any shooting where multiple people were injured, including gang fights and other criminal-on-criminal violence. Consider the first few incidents:

1) Drunk people fight at a bar
2) Two men involved in a "domestic situation" engage in a gunfight
3) Four people shot in the middle of the night in a crime-ridden part of Dallas
4) Two felons shoot people in an illegal nightclub in a high crime part of Roanoke at 3 AM

No reasonable person would classify any of those as mass shootings. Tracking shootings is an excellent idea that could help drive crime prevention measures, but intentionally misclassifying them to fit a political narrative is just disappointing and dumb.
 
I don't understand why they're multiplying when you're posting the same things over and over again. What congresspeople x,y, and z did years ago didn't persuade anyone years ago the first time the sad story was published. What is new here?

Whats new? Nothing and that's the issue. Do you really not understand why these threads are popping up or how public opinion changes or how and why politicians vote the way they do? If you did I don't think you'd be asking this questions.

Reposting myself from one of the other threads, a post that no one wanted to argue against presumably because facts trump opinions.



So, why don't you take the time to read through that CDC survey I already posted and come up with some new ideas?

What does that study have to do with this thread? You are basically saying that law enforcement won't enforce some unknown law as if that has any relevance. What if it's determine that police are the issue and their training and standards need to change, should that be ignored because of this survey?

You are in a thread arguing against studying the gun violence issue for the sole reason that addressing gun violence isn't popular to (insert group that doesn't represent the American people as a whole). Then you go to every other gun related thread complaining about the "solutions" people are coming up with. You are your own worst enemy.
 
That list is just any shooting where multiple people were injured, including gang fights and other criminal-on-criminal violence. Consider the first few incidents:

1) Drunk people fight at a bar
2) Two men involved in a "domestic situation" engage in a gunfight
3) Four people shot in the middle of the night in a crime-ridden part of Dallas
4) Two felons shoot people in an illegal nightclub in a high crime part of Roanoke at 3 AM

No reasonable person would classify any of those as mass shootings. Tracking shootings is an excellent idea that could help drive crime prevention measures, but intentionally misclassifying them to fit a political narrative is just disappointing and dumb.

You are right. I wish there was a way to track these shootings and classify them accurately so that we can address the problem accurately!

Oh well.
 
The Congressman Who Restricted Gun Violence Research Has Regrets

That's cool. I wish more people had regrets over their poor choices in life. Like how some reacted and took activist stands in the Trayvon Martin incident, or the Mike Brown incident before, during, and after a clear picture of the truth emerged.

ivwshane said:
"After the Dickey amendment passed in '96, the Knight Ridder media chain did an analysis of the vote. It discovered that three-quarters of those who backed the measure had received a collective $1.6 million from the NRA that calendar year. Only six of the 158 members who opposed the measure had received support from the gun lobby."

I'd be interested to learn how much union money is funneled towards politicians who craft laws to empower unions versus those who don't. I have a feeling you will see similar percentages. You have successfully described what generally occurs in all aspects of politics and legislatures.

What do you want to do? Fault the NRA for advocating on their own behalf? Are you against lobbyist groups altogether? Or only the lobbyist groups you personally disagree with? Just curious 😛 Is this thread discussing the actions of the NRA, or of lobbyist groups in general? Is the NRA engaged in lobbying tactics other groups are not? And you are free to answer however you like, I simply would like to know the direction you wish to steer the discussion in with your thread.
 
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