Regardless of your view on the issue, Paul has always been a pretty solid "States rights" guy. I would definitely give him the benefit of the doubt on this one, and no I am not a Paulbot.
That is pretty much what the Constitution says should happen which has been a pretty consistent stance of his. And while I haven't even read anything Paul has said/done this election cycle I find it rather difficult to call him a racist if this story is actually true.
He is one of the few assholes in the .gov that read that one.
How many things do we give him the benefit of the doubt on? Regardless of whether or not Ron Paul is a racist and a homophobe, he is at a minimum quite comfortable with those who are. To me these are only peripheral issues of course as his embrace of clown college economics immediately disqualifies him from serious consideration for the presidency, but it's still pretty gross.
Steeplerot
Lifer
- Mar 29, 2004
- 13,051
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"States rights" is a dogwhistle call of "I dun wan dem meddlin yankees who kicked our ass in the "war of northern aggression" in MAH bidness!" usually followed sooner or later by the sound of their meth lab exploding and burning down the neighborhood.
As said by another poster, States Rights is a anti-fed thing, let's not get into the stupid concept of "small government" this in itself is asinine, the government should be whatever size it needs to be to do it's job efficiently. To have some arbitrary size is moronic for such a institution that serves humans. This is why conservative economics sound like they are made up for the small black and white thinking of 4 year olds and never work out anything like how it sounds.
Republicans like Ike and Teddy R are rolling in their graves at the stupidity of so called "modern conservative common sense".
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Agreed: )
Ultimately, confederalism is much more libertarian than federalism where the Federal gov sends tanks into States to enforce its will. The federal government will just wage war against the states that don't do what it wants. If people don't like it, then they can just move to another state. The Articles of Confederation provided for freedom of movement.
It's just how nationalism is less statist than forced globalism because under national sovereignty, the number of sovereigns is closer to the number of individuals in the world. Ideally, there would be no government so that every individual is sovereign, but I don't want the Federal government taking money out of the market so it can lie some more about enforcing individual rights.
Nobody cares what you think. Go back to a real school and try to learn something this time. Even better, pay your own way instead of mooching off your parents.
See my above post. States' rights are more libertarian than the Federal government protecting individual rights (pretending it were capable of doing so).
True conservative economics have never been applied before, so you made a major fallacy when you said they don't work. Liberal economics sure as hell don't work, and 3rd way/trying to find a happy medium sure as hell doesn't work. Happy mediums don't exist because each side only gets half of what they want and the more people who figure that out, the better off we'll all be.
guyver01
Lifer
- Sep 25, 2000
- 22,135
- 5
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Wait... so ... because he did his job... he should be elected president?
is this how far the paul-nuts are willing to go?
LOOK! HE DID HIS JOB!!! REWARD HIM!!!
guess doing your job isn't in the paul-nuts vocabulary.. so when someone does their job... they should become president.
is this how far the paul-nuts are willing to go?
LOOK! HE DID HIS JOB!!! REWARD HIM!!!
guess doing your job isn't in the paul-nuts vocabulary.. so when someone does their job... they should become president.
Steeplerot
Lifer
- Mar 29, 2004
- 13,051
- 6
- 81
All I have to day is if it were not for all these evil moderate US barely socialist types like FDR you despise your trust fund would have been redistributed long ago by angry mobs. Count on it. Your entitlement to be so arrogant rests on the shoulders of the brave working class of the USA who never wavered into extremism, like you have the privlidge to be.
There was a time not long ago when the US was the last holdout of liberal democracy. If liberals were so bad we could of taken over, but American liberals never gave into snake oil salesmen selling Utopian dreams. Have respect kid, the same goes for che T-shirt wearing brats and right wing paranoid extremists like spidey which see *ahem* reds underthe bed everywhere.
There was a time not long ago when the US was the last holdout of liberal democracy. If liberals were so bad we could of taken over, but American liberals never gave into snake oil salesmen selling Utopian dreams. Have respect kid, the same goes for che T-shirt wearing brats and right wing paranoid extremists like spidey which see *ahem* reds underthe bed everywhere.
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I don't follow him all that much so I have no idea how much stuff he has been given the benefit of the doubt for but this particular issue does pretty much jive with what I have heard him say before. Just my .02
The fact that he did his job when so many others refused to because of blatant racism is a good story and, imo, telling of his character but no he should not be elected President based on that alone.
werepossum
Elite Member
- Jul 10, 2006
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This. This story speaks very well of Dr. Paul's character, and while character should be a big thing, it shouldn't be the only thing.
Stories like these (and there are many of them) are why I don't think Paul is a racist, but they aren't enough for me to give him a complete pass on the racist newsletters. Standing up to one's enemies is an important quality in a leader, but standing up to one's friends when those friends are wrong is also important.
DrPizza
Administrator Elite Member Goat Whisperer
That's garbage. No one refused to do their job. HE was the doctor - he did his job, they did their job. The father wanted the nurses to do the job of the doctor. It probably played out like this: "I've called the doctor and he will be in shortly." "I want you to ...." "I can't do that. You'll have to wait for the doctor." "I want you to... " I can't do that, you'll have to wait for the doctor." "I want you to... " "Sir, I've explained 5 times that we cannot do that, a doctor is required. He will be here any moment. If you continue harassing us, I'll be forced to call security." "#@(*&#$ Go ahead!" <doctor Paul arrives.>
And now, we have the video of one side of the story. Furthermore, perhaps Dr Paul recognized that if the family felt enough indignation, they might seek a legal consultation. And, lawyers/sharks would go after the hospital for $$$$$$, claiming it was neglect that caused the loss of the baby (regardless of the validity of that claim. "I'll take care of your bill for you" means "wow, what a sucker. Hey hospital admin - don't bill this guy; he doesn't seem too bright. I'll bet he goes away without suing us if we don't bill him."
I know all the Paul supporters are going to say "nuh uhhh, no way, that can't be how it happened." Clueless. These days, if a baby is born with a birth defect that wasn't found during ultrasounds and other tests, it's almost an automatic lawsuit, regardless of the negligence (none) on the part of the hospital or doctor. In fact, some states are having a tough time attracting enough OB/GYNs as a result of such lawsuits.
Paul got the family to go away without a lawsuit. That's not compassion - that's suckering a family out of a heck of a lot more money than a bill for delivery (which back then, wasn't a whole lot.)
werepossum
Elite Member
- Jul 10, 2006
- 29,873
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I don't say this lightly, but your post is evil. Taking someone's good action and attributing some convoluted evil reason for it, with no evidence at all to support your slur other than your own prejudice, is evil. This wasn't "these days", this was forty years ago in Texas, when an interracial couple was rare and despised in the south, and when no doctor would take their case, whether because of complications or because of prejudice, Ron Paul stepped up and helped them. The man specifically said that no doctor would help his wife.
You are also smearing the man in the video. Not everyone sues because something bad happens to them. Assuming they would sue the hospital for the stillborn child assumes that either the hospital caused the still birth, or that the couple would use a personal tragedy to extract money from someone not at fault. At this point there is no evidence of either. Nor is there any evidence that he is "not too bright". And in any case, the lack of a bill does not preclude a lawsuit, nor would a lawsuit, especially by a biracial couple in 1972 Texas against a respected hospital, be any guaranty of "a heck of a lot more money than a bill for delivery".
You need to examine your soul. It's one thing to disagree with someone politically; it's quite another to attribute to them acts of evil with no evidence and in this case, with evidence to the contrary. Shame on you.
DrPizza
Administrator Elite Member Goat Whisperer
Ahhh, perhaps you're right; shame on me. I apologize. I think I took that a little too far, and in doing so, I think I missed making my point: we're only seeing one side of the story.
The thing is, "no doctor would treat..." THEY are smearing the other doctors. We don't even know for fact that other doctors were present, or what they were doing. THEY are smearing that hospital. Many patients in the hospital seem to think they are the most important thing that's going on at any given time. I overheard the conversation in the room next to me in the ER one day - the mother/wife had severe FIRST degree burns! (from candle wax spilling on her hand.) They were livid that she wasn't getting more immediate treatment. Meanwhile, the doctors were dealing with a couple trauma patients and heart attacks.
So, shame on me, and shame on that PAC for doing the exact same thing: attributing acts of evil (refusal to treat allegedly because of racism) with no evidence.
The thing is, "no doctor would treat..." THEY are smearing the other doctors. We don't even know for fact that other doctors were present, or what they were doing. THEY are smearing that hospital. Many patients in the hospital seem to think they are the most important thing that's going on at any given time. I overheard the conversation in the room next to me in the ER one day - the mother/wife had severe FIRST degree burns! (from candle wax spilling on her hand.) They were livid that she wasn't getting more immediate treatment. Meanwhile, the doctors were dealing with a couple trauma patients and heart attacks.
So, shame on me, and shame on that PAC for doing the exact same thing: attributing acts of evil (refusal to treat allegedly because of racism) with no evidence.
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Not after the 14th Amendment. Ron Paul is against the Constitution as it is today. Sorry, but I'm going to go with the actual Constitution as it is today instead of some crazy old racist OBGYN.
Ultimately, Ron Paul is the most big government candidate in quite some time.
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werepossum
Elite Member
- Jul 10, 2006
- 29,873
- 463
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No problem. And I hadn't thought about that angle, but you're right. We don't actually know that anyone refused to treat his wife, merely that no one was treating his wife. There may well have been extenuating and valid reasons for that, not necessarily racism and/or fear of liability. So I apologize too; I made the same assumptions, forgetting that in the end this is a political advert and not necessarily objective truth.
"The compassion of Ron Paul" makes me think of "The celibacy of John Kennedy".
It's nice that Paul's views did not extend to his medical practice apparently. Not enough.
It's nice that Paul's views did not extend to his medical practice apparently. Not enough.
QFT. Being from California, I never thought much of being in the South (Texas) until I found out on one MLK day that the adjacent city was segregated only 60 years ago.
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werepossum
Elite Member
- Jul 10, 2006
- 29,873
- 463
- 126
I had much the same epiphany when I was a teenager. Being born in 1960 I never experienced segregation and assumed it was something that happened "somewhere else." Maybe in the cities, where there is duplication in everything. But my father had a friend, an old retired black man, who used to come down to my father's store and hang out. One day I gave him a ride home on one of my deliveries and in telling me how to get to his house, he used the phrase "the colored school". That's when I first realized that segregation was everywhere in the south, not just "somewhere else" but even in friendly, tiny little towns where everyone seems to get along without any racial tension.
Still, DrPizza makes a valid point in that we don't KNOW that this man's wife was denied care from racial prejudice, we only know that's what it looked like to them. And while I applaud Dr. Paul for treating them and taking care of them, I can also hear Chris Rock saying "Fool, you're a doctor, you're SUPPOSED to treat everyone. You don't get to brag about that!" (Although to be accurate, Dr. Paul isn't bragging about it; these are a group of people who think he's the best candidate.) Still, all in all this advert makes me feel better about Paul.
I guess you could say I think Paul's policies won't work and will lead to disaster if fully implemented. I think he raises very good points and there are a lot of issues with our government. If he shows willingness to step back and rationally change things I would vote for him in a heartbeat. People are smearing Paul for allegedly being a racist instead of rationally discussing the issues.
There really aren't very many honest politicians like Paul, IMHO, and we need more politicians with integrity like him, regardless of which way you lean politically.
And thanks for keeping the discussion civil with DrPizza. We don't see a lot of civility in P&N these days...
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Gintaras
Golden Member
- Dec 28, 2000
- 1,892
- 1
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