The Bush lied about WMD argument having "negligible effect" per new Post/ABC poll

[glenn1]

new Washington Post/ABC News poll data

(linked story format edited for posting purposes)

"As the war ended and weeks passed without the discovery of such weapons, some Democrats questioned whether Bush or members of his inner circle deliberately exaggerated the threat to justify going to war -- an argument that the latest Post-ABC poll suggests has had negligible effect on the president's public standing.

The survey also found that support for the war with Iraq as well as for the way Bush is handling the situation in that country remains strong, but may be slowly ebbing."


Key findings and interesting tidbits:

68 percent -- approved of the job Bush was doing as president, down negligibly from April.

More than six in 10 said the decision to go to war was justified even if the United States does not find weapons of mass destruction in Iraq.

67 percent -- of those interviewed said they approve of the way Bush is dealing with Iraq, down from 75 percent in late April, at the end of the conflict.

64 percent -- said the benefits of the war outweighed its cost, a drop from 70 percent in the late April survey.

56 percent to 38 percent, the public endorsed the use of the military to block Iran from developing nuclear arms.

About one in four Americans incorrectly believes Iraq used chemical or biological weapons against U.S. forces during the conflict.

Concerns over mounting U.S. military casualties have soared largely among Democrats and independents, the survey found. In April, 56 percent of all Democrats believed U.S. troop losses had been acceptable; today 35 percent share that view. The proportion of those who viewed current casualty levels as acceptable dropped by 23 percentage points among political independents, to 43 percent. There was no change among Republicans.

 

[BaliBabyDoc]

About one in four Americans incorrectly believes Iraq used chemical or biological weapons against U.S. forces during the conflict.

I wonder how they got that impression *cough* FOXNews *cough*.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc

About one in four Americans incorrectly believes Iraq used chemical or biological weapons against U.S. forces during the conflict.

I wonder how they got that impression *cough* FOXNews *cough*.

Fox news- anything in, garbage out.

 

[Zebo]

I think dems are making a huge mistake focusing on NO WMDs. First of all they will be found, perhaps not the threat advertised but some remmance will be found. Second, 75% of americans don't care if they are found so Dems are harping on a non-issue, the public feels the price paid was worth it to have this international scurb (saddam) off our back and limit the risk of future terror whether proven or not.

The issue which I think needs to be focused on is the illegalness of the war. No war is justified unless attacked. And it makes these dictatorial nations rabidly pursue nukes in an effort to deter americans new first stike policy. And we have created more children willing to be marters.


The questions should be asked; Is the world safer? And is America more or less vulneable to terrorists today?

Both are NO which I think refects badly on the leadership.
\
A third set of questions I would ask is why is the Taliban being allowed to come back in afghanistan? Why hav'nt we rebuilt as we said we would? Why has the nation besically degraded into a total state of anarchy which the 6000 american troops only in Kabol can do nothing about?

 

[glenn1]

I wonder how they got that impression *cough* FOXNews *cough*.

Was that something that Fox reported erroneously in the heat of battle, an implied possibility that the network didn't discourage, or simply a jab at Fox because of the right-leaning tendencies of the network? I could see how any of the three would be possible, after all, some news outlets were repeating stories in the confusion of the 9-11 tradgedy that the Supreme Court building was under attack, etc. and such misreports aren't the province of any particular network.

Don't take this that i'm supporting Fox, but i'm just trying to find out if Fox did or did not actually report chemical attacks in error or put such statements into a context to lead people to conclude they did. There's a big difference between those two actions.

 

[Gonad the Barbarian]

All these polls really show is the ignorance people have of the reality that surrounds them.

 

[HappyGamer2]

lets face it most americans only care about sex, booze or drugs. they are happy if they can make there car/house payment. they watch fox news, some not even that. they don't understand what is going around them and don't really care unless it affect them directly. they are easly fooled or brainwashed

 

[Phokus]

glenn1: I don't remember if fox news reported if chemical weapons had been used, but it was the bush administration who kept on shouting that iraq could deploy chemical and biological weapons within 45 minutes and that may have skewed people's perceptions.

However, i recall when the first 'evidence' of a chemical weapons factory was found, fox news was the ONLY major media network to report it was evidence and they later had to retract after it was found out it was BS.

Sigh, there is no media network for libertarians.

 

[Moonbeam]

Sigh, there is no media network for libertarians.
------------------------
There is in San Francisco. There's even a small sampling of the left.

Well maybe not a network. but we can hear hours of a libertarian every day.

 

[AnImuS]

Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc

About one in four Americans incorrectly believes Iraq used chemical or biological weapons against U.S. forces during the conflict.

I wonder how they got that impression *cough* Leftwing Media *cough* .

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Sigh, there is no media network for libertarians.
------------------------
There is in San Francisco. There's even a small sampling of the left.

Well maybe not a network. but we can hear hours of a libertarian every day.

"small sampling of the left"? Are you saying there isn't a leftist(liberal) media outlet in your part of the universe? You don't get ABC, CBS, NBC, or Public Television?

CkG

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: Zebo
I think dems are making a huge mistake focusing on NO WMDs. First of all they will be found, perhaps not the threat advertised but some remmance will be found. Second, 75% of americans don't care if they are found so Dems are harping on a non-issue, the public feels the price paid was worth it to have this international scurb (saddam) off our back and limit the risk of future terror whether proven or not.

The issue which I think needs to be focused on is the illegalness of the war. No war is justified unless attacked. And it makes these dictatorial nations rabidly pursue nukes in an effort to deter americans new first stike policy. And we have created more children willing to be marters.


The questions should be asked; Is the world safer? And is America more or less vulneable to terrorists today?

Both are NO which I think refects badly on the leadership.
\
A third set of questions I would ask is why is the Taliban being allowed to come back in afghanistan? Why hav'nt we rebuilt as we said we would? Why has the nation besically degraded into a total state of anarchy which the 6000 american troops only in Kabol can do nothing about?

1. WMD issue: I agree that the issue is pretty much dead politically.
2. should focus on "illegalness" - Uh, that doesn't seem to get much play either, infact the Dems can't play that card since they authorized the use of force too If they say they were "tricked" then we're back to the WMD issue which you say doesn't carry weight with the voters.
3. safer?: No on both accounts to a degree. More "aware" - yes. I think most people don't feel any "less safe" now then before 9/11. right after 9/11 people went a little nuts but i think things have mellowed and they've reattached their little chicken heads.
4. Afganistan needs to be cleaned up. I haven't researched our efforts and kept up with the goings-on over there lately. WE need to clean up 2 countrys right now but it will take time and a lot of patience.

CkG

 

[Moonbeam]

Caddy, you have never heard left wing media in your life if that's what you think is left.

 

[Zebo]

You have to be able to read if you want left wing media. The Nation is a good start.

 

[Zebo]

As far as legality CAD, The dems are an accesory to murder.

As American attorney Telford Taylor said at the Nuremberg trails about nazi leadership when we actually had a soul ?The question of causation is important and will be discussed for many years, but it has no place in this trial, which must rather stick rigorously to the doctrine that planning and launching an aggressive war is illegal, whatever may be the factors that caused the defendants to plan and to launch. Contributing causes may be pleaded by the defendants before the bar of history, but not before the tribunal.?

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: Zebo
As far as legality CAD, The dems are an accesory to murder.

As American attorney Telford Taylor said at the Nuremberg trails about nazi leadership when we actually had a soul ?The question of causation is important and will be discussed for many years, but it has no place in this trial, which must rather stick rigorously to the doctrine that planning and launching an aggressive war is illegal, whatever may be the factors that caused the defendants to plan and to launch. Contributing causes may be pleaded by the defendants before the bar of history, but not before the tribunal.?

the nuremburg trials were show trials absolving the rest of germany for their sins by putting a few "sacrificial lambs" up for slaughter.

 

[ConclamoLudus]

I think at this point the dems best shot is the economy. They aren't going to get anywhere with the where. They'll appeal to the anti-war crowd, but if they think they aren't going to get a lot of moderates and they aren't going to get anyone on the right by talking about the "legality" of the war.

Its true most Americans probably really don't take issue with the war. They take issue with seeing people get laid off at work. They take issue with what affects them in their daily life. A lot of Americans like us at least make a valiant effort to stay informed on all kinds of goings-on in the world and many of us don't even take issue with the legality of the war. Lieberman said it best when he said that no democrat is going to take the white house who is soft on defence. Whether its valid or not, the criticism of the war translates to a lot of people as being soft on defence. If the dems stick to domestic issues they may be onto something.

 

[Moonbeam]

The nation that allows itself to become morally corrupt will fall. A party that does not stand for principles stands for nothing at all. A party that avoids truth because it is unpopular abdicates its function to lead and inspire, to garner to its fold the best in man. We are dying as a people concerned only about what is useless.

 

[B00ne]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Caddy, you have never heard left wing media in your life if that's what you think is left.

even though I am not living there, I got my sampling of US media (during a one year visit and now through their respective internet outlets), and I can say this needs to be emphasized....

 

[ConclamoLudus]

Most people never see the bias they agree with.

 

[Alistar7]

Originally posted by: ConclamoLudus
Most people never see the bias they agree with.

Fox NEVER reported WMD being used in the conflict.

 

[BaliBabyDoc]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc

Quote

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
About one in four Americans incorrectly believes Iraq used chemical or biological weapons against U.S. forces during the conflict.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



I wonder how they got that impression *cough* Leftwing Media *cough* .

That's so wrong on so many levels . . .

 

[Lucky]

Originally posted by: glenn1

I wonder how they got that impression *cough* FOXNews *cough*.

Was that something that Fox reported erroneously in the heat of battle, an implied possibility that the network didn't discourage, or simply a jab at Fox because of the right-leaning tendencies of the network? I could see how any of the three would be possible, after all, some news outlets were repeating stories in the confusion of the 9-11 tradgedy that the Supreme Court building was under attack, etc. and such misreports aren't the province of any particular network.

Don't take this that i'm supporting Fox, but i'm just trying to find out if Fox did or did not actually report chemical attacks in error or put such statements into a context to lead people to conclude they did. There's a big difference between those two actions.

Curiously, no responses to your rational post.

 

[kegcanman2]

Originally posted by: Zebo
I think dems are making a huge mistake focusing on NO WMDs. First of all they will be found, perhaps not the threat advertised but some remmance will be found. Second, 75% of americans don't care if they are found so Dems are harping on a non-issue, the public feels the price paid was worth it to have this international scurb (saddam) off our back and limit the risk of future terror whether proven or not.
The issue which I think needs to be focused on is the illegalness of the war. No war is justified unless attacked. And it makes these dictatorial nations rabidly pursue nukes in an effort to deter americans new first stike policy. And we have created more children willing to be marters.
The questions should be asked; Is the world safer? And is America more or less vulneable to terrorists today?
Both are NO which I think refects badly on the leadership.
\
A third set of questions I would ask is why is the Taliban being allowed to come back in afghanistan? Why hav'nt we rebuilt as we said we would? Why has the nation besically degraded into a total state of anarchy which the 6000 american troops only in Kabol can do nothing about?

\

I think the Dems are completely justified in debating the existance of WMD's.
There are none. There were some, but there are none now. If they do eventually find
them, im sure the good ol' Bush Family will find some way to plant them.
If WMD's are such a big issue to us, why does the USA have them?
Why does the USa refuse to allow weapons inspectors into the country?
Getting back to WMD's and Iraq.....let me ask you a question, where
the hell do you think Iraq obtained the agents to make those weapons?
Again, the good ol' USA. Good ol' Republican Reagan.
Let me talk about justifing war. Yes, I believe it is justified to attack
if attacked or if a friendly country is attacked. That brings me to the first gulf
war and G. Bush I. Do you know, and there is documented evidence, that G.B. I was sent
a letter from Sadamm asking permission to attack Kuait? Of course he said yes....or in other words
gave us a reason to attack. Why did we attack? OIL Why did we attack again? OIL
Why did we invade Iraq? Because we KNOW they dont have the WMD's/nukes.
We dont invade countries we know has those weapons because they MIGHT USE THEM.
Why the hell arent we invading N. Korea or why didnt we invade the Soviet Union?
Because they HAVE NUKES AND WMD'S.

Did you ever consider where those polls are taken?
Who the sample was?
Was it upper-middle class people in generally conservative areas?

 

[Alistar7]

I will adress a few of your "facts"

"Getting back to WMD's and Iraq.....let me ask you a question, where
the hell do you think Iraq obtained the agents to make those weapons
Again, the good ol' USA. Good ol' Republican Reagan."

According to Iraq by the report they submitted to the UN security council there were 21 companeis that helped them in theri WMD programs, 2 in the US, now defunct, and 17 in the EU, most of those in Germany, so that's where that came from.

We did not give Saddam permission to invade Kuwait, this particualr conspiracy theory has been debunked here about 50 million times if you care to do a quick search.


Thirteenth quarterly report of the Executive Chairman of the United Nations Monitoring, Verification and Inspection Commission in accordance with paragraph 12 of Security Council resolution 1284 (1999)
30 May 2003United Nations Security Council

13. Again, with respect to anthrax, the Commission, as it reported, had strong
indications ? but not conclusive evidence ? that all the quantities produced had
not been destroyed, and that hence even today such quantities could remain.

118. During an inspection on 7 January 2003 of the Al Mamoun site, UNMOVIC
inspectors observed two large propellant casting chambers. Iraq declared that those
casting chambers had originally been acquired for the Badr 2000 project. That was a
proscribed project, and although UNSCOM had supervised the destruction of the
two casting chambers in 1991 Iraq had managed to refurbish them for use in their
current solid propellant missile projects.

"UNSCOM discovered a document at Iraqi Air Force headquarters in July 1998 showing that Iraq overstated by at least 6,000 the number of chemical bombs it told the UN it had used during the Iran-Iraq War?bombs that remain are unaccounted for.

Iraq has not accounted for 15,000 artillery rockets that in the past were its preferred means for delivering nerve agents, nor has it accounted for about 550 artillery shells filled with mustard agent. "


Welcome to AT politics and news forum, the land where bias and ignorance die in the face of cold hard fact, looking forward to your repsonse.....

(maybe these same exact Dems should have questioned the CIA report in Oct. 2002 instead of lining up to agree with it and give Bush the authority to take action, now they are criticizing exactly what convinced them in the first place)