The brits are in for a rough ride

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sdifox

No Lifer
Sep 30, 2005
89,153
11,490
126
So did Jones Town, should the suicides be allowed to continue?
Sins of the British Monarchy is much greater than Johnstown. But we are talking about QEII's demise and day of mourning. Until the UK people decide to get rid of the Royals through referendum and modify their government, there isn't much that can be done.
 

sdifox

No Lifer
Sep 30, 2005
89,153
11,490
126
I'm skeptical of that statistic. I don't think France has any trouble attracting tourists. I remember being quite intrigued to see the spot where Marie Antoinette's bodyguards were hacked to death by the Parisian mob.

The bigger problem is that they _own_ so much of the country. That they get excused the inheritance tax that affects people who own fairly normal flats and houses means that problem is likely to continue.
Until the British people vote to abolish the monarchy, what can you do? I think Charles has maybe one tenth of QEII's charisma and will not be able to draw that kind of number going forward.

 
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pmv

Lifer
May 30, 2008
10,970
5,735
136
I'd dispute that Madge had "charisma". What she had going for her was simply that she knew how to keep her opinions to herself (to be fair, that's probably a rare ability in the age of social media, and forums like, er, this one - and unless he suddenly drastically changes his ways, it's not a super-power that Charles is possessed of).

I find myself being increasingly inclined to make negative remarks about her the more this saturation coverage goes on. Still can't turn on the radio or any other conventional media, because it's nothing but wall-to-wall royalist sycophancy. Makes me depressed - this country is not what I foolishly thought it was. Really it is all quite depressing - firstly, ust as when any celebrity who has been in the background of your life dies, it reminds you that everyone is mortal and nothing is permanent. And in this case it, in addition, reminds one how little power one has to change anything and how far the world - and what happens to you as an individual in it - is entirely out of your control.
 
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Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
34,324
6,114
126
You need to put this shit show squarely on the Champions Of Brexit, Nigel and all the other fuckheads, cause if you dont they just gonna point to the next scapegoat... and the next and the next and the next.
Then eventually rejoin :).
I think the Russians were behind it too. How possible is a rejoin?
 

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
34,324
6,114
126
I'd dispute that Madge had "charisma". What she had going for her was simply that she knew how to keep her opinions to herself (to be fair, that's probably a rare ability in the age of social media, and forums like, er, this one - and unless he suddenly drastically changes his ways, it's not a super-power that Charles is possessed of).

I find myself being increasingly inclined to make negative remarks about her the more this saturation coverage goes on. Still can't turn on the radio or any other conventional media, because it's nothing but wall-to-wall royalist sycophancy. Makes me depressed - this country is not what I foolishly thought it was. Really it is all quite depressing - firstly, ust as when any celebrity who has been in the background of your life dies, it reminds you that everyone is mortal and nothing is permanent. And in this case it, in addition, reminds one how little power one has to change anything and how far the world - and what happens to you as an individual in it - is entirely out of your control.
OK, now I gather you are in the UK, so different from me in the SF Bay Area of California. There's a big media thing here on the death of QE II and everything surrounding it. I have tuned out 98% of it, FF through all that stuff. I have watched maybe less than 10 minutes of it. I have tended to FF through stories on the British royal family for years, so it's easy for me. Quite frankly I find that stuff quite boring. I would flunk any test on them. WTH should I care?
 

pmv

Lifer
May 30, 2008
10,970
5,735
136
OK, now I gather you are in the UK, so different from me in the SF Bay Area of California. There's a big media thing here on the death of QE II and everything surrounding it. I have tuned out 98% of it, FF through all that stuff. I have watched maybe less than 10 minutes of it. I have tended to FF through stories on the British royal family for years, so it's easy for me. Quite frankly I find that stuff quite boring. I would flunk any test on them. WTH should I care?
I've tried to ignore their existence my entire life. Doing so here can be quite tricky at times, you really have to work at it. I went to a "Not The Royal Wedding" event on the day Charles and Di got hitched, in order to avoid all coverage of it. The irony is the event was itself memorable (Ian Dury played at it).
 
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UNCjigga

Lifer
Dec 12, 2000
23,992
7,267
136

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
34,324
6,114
126
I've tried to ignore their existence my entire life. Doing so here can be quite tricky at times, you really have to work at it. I went to a "Not The Royal Wedding" event on the day Charles and Di got hitched, in order to avoid all coverage of it. The irony is the event was itself memorable (Ian Dury played at it).
I AM an Ian Dury fan. Rather charming quirky sense of humour. My spell check doesn't like it but I think that's how you'd spell humor.
 

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
34,324
6,114
126
Ahh yes, Britain’s facing an existential crisis with heartless dollar store British Leslie Knope at the helm. Where’s a Churchill when you need one?
I don't know what's going on in England but Churchill was PM at a time of the utmost crisis what with German V2's landing in London.
 

pmv

Lifer
May 30, 2008
10,970
5,735
136
I don't know what's going on in England but Churchill was PM at a time of the utmost crisis what with German V2's landing in London.
The British public happily voted him out after the war was over. He was, it turned out, the right man for that particular job, but he got a lot of other things horribly wrong.

Has struck me he had some weird analogies with Trotsky. Both of them were in exile in the 30s - political exile in Churhcill's case, literal for Trotsky. And both of them had blood on their own hands (Krondstadt and Gallapoli, at least). But both of them early on correctly spotted the threat from Hitler but had their warnings ignored by the fools in power in their respective countries.
 
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pmv

Lifer
May 30, 2008
10,970
5,735
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So now we have an unelected head-of-state _and_ an unelected Prime Minister.

I wouldn't mind so much that Truss was only chosen by <100,000 Tory Party members, but she's introducing all these major policy changes - things that were never mentioned in the manifesto that this government was elected with (a lifetime ago, in 2019).

It's really sneaky the way they pretend this a whole new government from Johnson's, as if there's been a general election. So they can make all these major policy shifts, ignoring what they said when they were actually elected.

Did anyone who voted Tory in 2019 know they were voting for a removal of the cap on bankers bonuses (and hence a return to the incentives that gave us the financial crash last time round) or for tax-cuts for higher earners, or for the ending of the moratorium on fracking? Was any of that mentioned in the manifesto?

I don't care about the fracking thing that much - seems as if most of the potential fracking sites are in Tory constituencies, so they are getting what they voted for, and the Conservatives are probably shooting themselves in the foot. And while it's clearly bad for climate change, it seems that for geological reasons there isn't much scope for fracking in this country anyway, so the effect will be small. Not that it will do anything to help with the immediate crisis of energy prices either. Undoing the post-financial-crash-measures is just ideology-driven stupidity, though.
 
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pmv

Lifer
May 30, 2008
10,970
5,735
136
It’s what they wanted so…

Not really. Turns out many of those who selected Truss were not UK citizens or even residents. (If Putin were so smart he'd have had lots of Russians register as Tory party members to pick our PM.)

She's a representative of the global ruling class, foisted on us to impose class-war policies. Capitalism doesn't really permit democracy.


 

sdifox

No Lifer
Sep 30, 2005
89,153
11,490
126
Not really. Turns out many of those who selected Truss were not UK citizens or even residents. (If Putin were so smart he'd have had lots of Russians register as Tory party members to pick our PM.)

She's a representative of the global ruling class, foisted on us to impose class-war policies. Capitalism doesn't really permit democracy.


You mean all the conservatives that voted for her weren't even residents?
 

pmv

Lifer
May 30, 2008
10,970
5,735
136
You mean all the conservatives that voted for her weren't even residents?
Not _all_ but an unknown number of them would not have been. Tory Party rules don't require a member to be a UK citizen or even resident. She only got a bare plurality even of Tory party member votes, in a contest split multiple ways.

There's nothing in the rules to stop Putin's pals registering en-masse as Tory Party members abroad and voting in these contests (I assume he didn't think of it this time).

My main gripe is, that given a parliamentary system, a change in leader mid-term is going to be somewhat undemocratic, but it wouldn't matter if there were a continuity of policies, such that they didn't do anything radically different from what was promised at the last general election. But in this case the Tories have taken a very sharp right-ward turn, with no electoral mandate to do so. And we won't get a general election for another 2 and a half years.
 
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sdifox

No Lifer
Sep 30, 2005
89,153
11,490
126
Not _all_ but an unknown number of them would not have been. Tory Party rules don't require a member to be a UK citizen or even resident. She only got a bare plurality even of Tory party member votes, in a contest split multiple ways.

There's nothing in the rules to stop Putin's pals registering en-masse as Tory Party members abroad and voting in these contests (I assume he didn't think of it this time).

My main gripe is, that given a parliamentary system, a change in leader mid-term is going to be somewhat undemocratic, but it wouldn't matter if there were a continuity of policies, such that they didn't do anything radically different from what was promised at the last general election. But in this case the Tories have taken a very sharp right-ward turn, with no electoral mandate to do so. And we won't get a general election for another 2 and a half years.

It's ludicrous they allow non members to vote for leadership.
 

pmv

Lifer
May 30, 2008
10,970
5,735
136
And now the tax-cuts have in turn led to a collapse in the exchange rate, thus further increasing inflation and in particular driving up the costs of energy, and thus further impoverishing ordinary Brits. This is naked class warfare.
 

sdifox

No Lifer
Sep 30, 2005
89,153
11,490
126
And now the tax-cuts have in turn led to a collapse in the exchange rate, thus further increasing inflation and in particular driving up the costs of energy, and thus further impoverishing ordinary Brits. This is naked class warfare.
What can I say. Election has consequences.
 

pmv

Lifer
May 30, 2008
10,970
5,735
136
On current poll ratings the Tories would lose an election if it happened tomorrow - but they don't have to call one till Jan 2025.

It's as if Biden stood down half-way through his term and handed over power, not to the VP he ran with, but to some random member of the Democrats, AOC for example, or that Sinema oddball. Who promptly changed political direction and immediately instigated a lot of radically-different policies from those Biden stood on.

The whole thing is obscene. Johnson was bad enough, but at least he was actually elected, and his unseriousness and desire to be liked watered-down his ideology. Truss is a particularly dim-witted puppet of the global 1%.
 
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