The Book of Mormon is FICTION!

[MechJinx]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: plaidfro
Ugh... I am disappointed that this thread is turning out the way it is... It started out as a laugh just showing 2 pics of some guys opinion on his minivan. Some people took this in the right light and laughed at the poor clown. Others thought this is a perfect time to stand on their soap box.

Why do people who don't believe in religion have to be so adamant in trying to break down someone elses. Be a bit more respectful of others. That is a universal policy, not just a religious one. Mormons respect you, please do likewise. If people don't want to accept the Mormon religion, they don't half to! If people find peace and joy living their daily life as a Mormon then why would you want to change that for him?

SIDE NOTE: Most proclaimed atheists are not atheist... they are agnostic. Quite a difference between the two.

Sorry you are disappointed . . . OT frequently turns out that way when people disagree with you.
:roll:

i don't care what others do and if they care to worship Dung, that is their dubious privilege . . . but i will not hesitate to call it like i see it.

Most religious people do not respect athiests . . . at least in America . . . they are always trying to force others- often by manipulating the Law - to live according to their fantasy.
:thumbsdown:

edit: like Utah
:roll:

Thanks for the blanket statement about Utah. The more people say it, the better chance that I won't run into narrow-minded folks like you here because maybe they'll believe that we try and force our beliefs on you. Here's a hint, if you don't want to listen to the missionaries, just slam the door in their face, I guarantee they won't hold it against you (I know from MANY similar experiences on my mission). If a member of the LDS church stills tries to teach you about the church after you have made it clear that you are NOT interested, they are not acting in a manner that the leaders condone. One of the fundamental ideas that members are taught about sharing our beliefs with others is to build upon common beliefs. And, if you feel like they are forcing their views on you, they aren't doing a very good job of trying to have a discussion starting on common ground, are they? After all, if a LDS member makes you angry trying to share their beliefs, what kind of shot do they have of getting you to listen and understand? It is completely counter-productive to argue religion.
So, for those of you who have run into members that try and force the LDS belief system on you (I know they exist, it is a sad fact), it is not what has been asked of them. I know that this isn't going to chagne many of your minds about the LDS church and its members, but maybe just one person will read this and understand what I am saying. If that happened, then I will feel like I have accomplished what I intended.
I know I've been sarcastic in my posts in this thread. And, if I have offended anyone because of it. I apologize. My friends and I tend to be sarcastic with each other but it is with the understanding that it isn't personal. The same is true with my sarcasm on Anandtech relating to LDS threads. It doesn't mean that I am angry. I just have an odd sense of humor.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: MechJinx

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: plaidfro
Ugh... I am disappointed that this thread is turning out the way it is... It started out as a laugh just showing 2 pics of some guys opinion on his minivan. Some people took this in the right light and laughed at the poor clown. Others thought this is a perfect time to stand on their soap box.

Why do people who don't believe in religion have to be so adamant in trying to break down someone elses. Be a bit more respectful of others. That is a universal policy, not just a religious one. Mormons respect you, please do likewise. If people don't want to accept the Mormon religion, they don't half to! If people find peace and joy living their daily life as a Mormon then why would you want to change that for him?

SIDE NOTE: Most proclaimed atheists are not atheist... they are agnostic. Quite a difference between the two.

Sorry you are disappointed . . . OT frequently turns out that way when people disagree with you.
:roll:

i don't care what others do and if they care to worship Dung, that is their dubious privilege . . . but i will not hesitate to call it like i see it.

Most religious people do not respect athiests . . . at least in America . . . they are always trying to force others- often by manipulating the Law - to live according to their fantasy.
:thumbsdown:

edit: like Utah
:roll:

Thanks for the blanket statement about Utah. The more people say it, the better chance that I won't run into narrow-minded folks like you here because maybe they'll believe that we try and force our beliefs on you. Here's a hint, if you don't want to listen to the missionaries, just slam the door in their face, I guarantee they won't hold it against you (I know from MANY similar experiences on my mission). If a member of the LDS church stills tries to teach you about the church after you have made it clear that you are NOT interested, they are not acting in a manner that the leaders condone. One of the fundamental ideas that members are taught about sharing our beliefs with others is to build upon common beliefs. And, if you feel like they are forcing their views on you, they aren't doing a very good job of trying to have a discussion starting on common ground, are they? After all, if a LDS member makes you angry trying to share their beliefs, what kind of shot do they have of getting you to listen and understand? It is completely counter-productive to argue religion.
So, for those of you who have run into members that try and force the LDS belief system on you (I know they exist, it is a sad fact), it is not what has been asked of them. I know that this isn't going to chagne many of your minds about the LDS church and its members, but maybe just one person will read this and understand what I am saying. If that happened, then I will feel like I have accomplished what I intended.
I know I've been sarcastic in my posts in this thread. And, if I have offended anyone because of it. I apologize. My friends and I tend to be sarcastic with each other but it is with the understanding that it isn't personal. The same is true with my sarcasm on Anandtech relating to LDS threads. It doesn't mean that I am angry. I just have an odd sense of humor.

you're welcome . . . it's quite true for non-Mormons in Utah, no matter how you spin it.

and i am not picking on your religion in particular . . . all religions share the same fault . . . nor is it directed at any particular member of a church - even though you DID call me "closed minded" .. . . of course you are particularly closed minded trying to defend the indefensible.

 

[ultimatebob]

Someone needs to make a bigger poster of that, put it on a bus, drive it all around Utah for a week, and watch the hilarity ensue!

 

[MechJinx]

Originally posted by: ultimatebob
Someone needs to make a bigger poster of that, put it on a bus, drive it all around Utah for a week, and watch the hilarity ensue!

I'd be pointing at it, laughing the entire time. And, most of the members that I know would join me in laughing at it.
Oh no! someone put a huge sticker on their vehicle saying the Book of Mormon isn't true. My faith is shaken! HAHAHAHAHA

 

[The Pentium Guy]

Originally posted by: hevnsnt
So I was coming home from the airport yesterday and I see this minivan (with dealer plates no less) with some GIANT vinyl lettering that says "The Book of Mormon is FICTION" with some bugs bunny characters mixed in there..

WTF

At what point do you become so obsessed with someone else's religion that you put stickers on your car saying bad stuff about it? I am not mormon (or religious for that matter) but I would think that it would be better to talk up your specific religion, rather than talk down someone elses.

Oh.. PICS!
Pic
Pic2

Is your car an Acura MDX by any chance?

 

[MechJinx]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: MechJinx

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: plaidfro
Ugh... I am disappointed that this thread is turning out the way it is... It started out as a laugh just showing 2 pics of some guys opinion on his minivan. Some people took this in the right light and laughed at the poor clown. Others thought this is a perfect time to stand on their soap box.

Why do people who don't believe in religion have to be so adamant in trying to break down someone elses. Be a bit more respectful of others. That is a universal policy, not just a religious one. Mormons respect you, please do likewise. If people don't want to accept the Mormon religion, they don't half to! If people find peace and joy living their daily life as a Mormon then why would you want to change that for him?

SIDE NOTE: Most proclaimed atheists are not atheist... they are agnostic. Quite a difference between the two.

Sorry you are disappointed . . . OT frequently turns out that way when people disagree with you.
:roll:

i don't care what others do and if they care to worship Dung, that is their dubious privilege . . . but i will not hesitate to call it like i see it.

Most religious people do not respect athiests . . . at least in America . . . they are always trying to force others- often by manipulating the Law - to live according to their fantasy.
:thumbsdown:

edit: like Utah
:roll:

Thanks for the blanket statement about Utah. The more people say it, the better chance that I won't run into narrow-minded folks like you here because maybe they'll believe that we try and force our beliefs on you. Here's a hint, if you don't want to listen to the missionaries, just slam the door in their face, I guarantee they won't hold it against you (I know from MANY similar experiences on my mission). If a member of the LDS church stills tries to teach you about the church after you have made it clear that you are NOT interested, they are not acting in a manner that the leaders condone. One of the fundamental ideas that members are taught about sharing our beliefs with others is to build upon common beliefs. And, if you feel like they are forcing their views on you, they aren't doing a very good job of trying to have a discussion starting on common ground, are they? After all, if a LDS member makes you angry trying to share their beliefs, what kind of shot do they have of getting you to listen and understand? It is completely counter-productive to argue religion.
So, for those of you who have run into members that try and force the LDS belief system on you (I know they exist, it is a sad fact), it is not what has been asked of them. I know that this isn't going to chagne many of your minds about the LDS church and its members, but maybe just one person will read this and understand what I am saying. If that happened, then I will feel like I have accomplished what I intended.
I know I've been sarcastic in my posts in this thread. And, if I have offended anyone because of it. I apologize. My friends and I tend to be sarcastic with each other but it is with the understanding that it isn't personal. The same is true with my sarcasm on Anandtech relating to LDS threads. It doesn't mean that I am angry. I just have an odd sense of humor.

you're welcome . . . it's quite true for non-Mormons in Utah, no matter how you spin it.

and i am not picking on your religion in particular . . . all religions share the same fault . . . nor is it directed at any particular member of a church - even though you DID call me "closed minded" .. . . of course you are particularly closed minded trying to defend the indefensible.

Touche
As to trying to defend the indefensible, I would disagree. For all of the articles and editorials that I have read proclaiming to disprove the Book of Morman and disprove Joseph Smith was a prophet called by God, I have read articles and editorials proving that the Book of Mormon is true and that Joseph Smith was called of God. But, in the end, I have my testimony that I know that it is true. And, if you call that close minded, then you do not understand faith. Read Alma 32 in the Book of Mormon for my definition of faith. Alma 32:21 "And now as I said concerning faith - faith is not to have a perfect knowledge of things; therefore if ye have faith ye hope for things which are not seen, which are true."
Or, if you prefer, Hebrews 11:1 "Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen."
I believe that it is true. You believe that it is fiction. In the end, that is all that matters. I could point to article after article that proves that it is true. But, you have to pray and decide for yourself if it is true or not. And, if you have no desire to pray or even have no belief in God, that is fine. I respect your belief.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: MechJinx

Originally posted by: apoppin

you're welcome . . . it's quite true for non-Mormons in Utah, no matter how you spin it.

and i am not picking on your religion in particular . . . all religions share the same fault . . . nor is it directed at any particular member of a church - even though you DID call me "closed minded" .. . . of course you are particularly closed minded trying to defend the indefensible.

Touche
As to trying to defend the indefensible, I would disagree. For all of the articles and editorials that I have read proclaiming to disprove the Book of Morman and disprove Joseph Smith was a prophet called by God, I have read articles and editorials proving that the Book of Mormon is true and that Joseph Smith was called of God. But, in the end, I have my testimony that I know that it is true. And, if you call that close minded, then you do not understand faith. Read Alma 32 in the Book of Mormon for my definition of faith. Alma 32:21 "And now as I said concerning faith - faith is not to have a perfect knowledge of things; therefore if ye have faith ye hope for things which are not seen, which are true."
Or, if you prefer, Hebrews 11:1 "Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen."
I believe that it is true. You believe that it is fiction. In the end, that is all that matters. I could point to article after article that proves that it is true. But, you have to pray and decide for yourself if it is true or not. And, if you have no desire to pray or even have no belief in God, that is fine. I respect your belief.

personal testimony is only useful for one person - you . . . it is absolutely useless to anyone else.

i DO understand faith . . . you are quoting yet you do not understand . . . there MUST be EVIDENCE for a basis for faith.

not personal testimony . . . evidence is solid . . . something terribly lacking in the Bible and your book.

you can point to NO article to "prove" this truth . . . just people who are defending what they ALREADY believe.

were you born into a Mormon family? MOST chances are if you had Catholic or Buddhist parents you would be Catholic or Buddhist instead of Mormon and extolling the virtures of "that" faith.

:roll:

 

[eits]

even though the book of mormon is fiction, you've gotta be a complete douche to waste the time and money to ridicule and belittle someone in such a manner based on their faith...

obviously, whenever this slut (obviously, this person has a vagina... note the minivan) is gonna be asked by God at the pearly gates of heaven why in the world they felt it necessary to humiliate, belittle, and anger people just because they didn't believe in what they believed.

 

[HDTVMan]

Originally posted by: hevnsnt
So I was coming home from the airport yesterday and I see this minivan (with dealer plates no less) with some GIANT vinyl lettering that says "The Book of Mormon is FICTION" with some bugs bunny characters mixed in there..

WTF

At what point do you become so obsessed with someone else's religion that you put stickers on your car saying bad stuff about it? I am not mormon (or religious for that matter) but I would think that it would be better to talk up your specific religion, rather than talk down someone elses.

Oh.. PICS!
Pic
Pic2

Fully agree with you bud. Thats the reason I stopped going to church. I didnt think god was cruel to think all but one religion was getting in.

 

[yhelothar]

I want some mormon tea

 

[Ronin]

That would be herbal. Good stuff!

 

[CDC Mail Guy]

Wow...you have a really nice car interior!

 

[BurnItDwn]

Originally posted by: NuclearNed
To the people who claim the Bible is fiction:

I'm guessing you are highly uneducated about the Bible and ancient history. There are mountains of tangible physical archaeological evidence that prove that virtually all of the events described in the Bible actually happened. Heck, there are even secular accounts proving that Jesus was an actual person. Choosing to not believe that God exists or that he was involved in those events is entirely your right, but claiming that those events are fictional exposes you as an ignorant kiddie.

The same can't be said about the book of Mormon - there is no evidence supporting the events described therein. Some of the early founders of that cult even recanted on their deathbeds, saying that they made up the whole thing.

If something is 90% true and 10% made up, it's fiction.
Only when something is 100% true is it "non-fiction."

Sure many events are true, but there's a lot of stuff that we know for a fact to be false. (The creation story for example, Adam and Eve, Noah's Ark, ohh and what about a man "parting the red sea", and how about that magic water to wine trick... sure all non-fiction and true)

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: eits
even though the book of mormon is fiction, you've gotta be a complete douche to waste the time and money to ridicule and belittle someone in such a manner based on their faith...

obviously, whenever this slut (obviously, this person has a vagina... note the minivan) is gonna be asked by God at the pearly gates of heaven why in the world they felt it necessary to humiliate, belittle, and anger people just because they didn't believe in what they believed.

what excuse are you gonna give god for calling someone a slut just for expressing her views?
:roll:

and . . . more importantly, What excuse will [all] organized religion give god for screwing up the human race?
:Q

:thumbsdown:

 

[ViperXX]

The same can't be said about the book of Mormon - there is no evidence supporting the events described therein. Some of the early founders of that cult even recanted on their deathbeds, saying that they made up the whole thing.

If you don't know what your talking about don't post. "Made the whole thing up", where crap did you read that? I've been Mormon all my life and have never heard about the "oh, we made the whole thing up".

 

[NuclearNed]

Originally posted by: BurnItDwn

Originally posted by: NuclearNed
To the people who claim the Bible is fiction:

I'm guessing you are highly uneducated about the Bible and ancient history. There are mountains of tangible physical archaeological evidence that prove that virtually all of the events described in the Bible actually happened. Heck, there are even secular accounts proving that Jesus was an actual person. Choosing to not believe that God exists or that he was involved in those events is entirely your right, but claiming that those events are fictional exposes you as an ignorant kiddie.

The same can't be said about the book of Mormon - there is no evidence supporting the events described therein. Some of the early founders of that cult even recanted on their deathbeds, saying that they made up the whole thing.

If something is 90% true and 10% made up, it's fiction.
Only when something is 100% true is it "non-fiction."

Sure many events are true, but there's a lot of stuff that we know for a fact to be false. (The creation story for example, Adam and Eve, Noah's Ark, ohh and what about a man "parting the red sea", and how about that magic water to wine trick... sure all non-fiction and true)

I had meant to leave this thread and never come back, but I keep getting dragged back in...

First, by your definition, I doubt that there is a single piece of "non-fiction" in the entire universe. Even technical papers and college textbooks are plagued by inaccuracies and mistakes. If you can produce a single document that you or anyone else can guarantee is 100% error free, then you might have a case. Otherwise, your definition of "fiction" doesn't hold true because by it all documents are necessarily fiction.

Second, I would like to see evidence supporting your claim that "there's a lot of stuff that we know for a fact to be false." This statement is strictly your opinion and doesn't hold up under scrutiny. You can't prove or disprove that there is a God; lack of proof doesn't give you irrefutable conclusive evidence that He doesn't exist. Furthermore, the very definition of a miracle indicates that one is something that happens outside the realm of "normal" reality. If God does exist, and he performs a miracle, it is only logical that the miracle can't be repeated by modern science because, again by definition, it is something that only God can do. Just because we can't part a sea doesn't mean that God can't, provided that he does exist, which you can't prove one way or another.

In short, your arguments are flawed to the point of being useless.

 

[NuclearNed]

Originally posted by: ViperXX

The same can't be said about the book of Mormon - there is no evidence supporting the events described therein. Some of the early founders of that cult even recanted on their deathbeds, saying that they made up the whole thing.

If you don't know what your talking about don't post. "Made the whole thing up", where crap did you read that? I've been Mormon all my life and have never heard about the "oh, we made the whole thing up".

There are links in this thread that support this claim.

EDIT: Lots of information here

 

[Ronin]

Originally posted by: NuclearNed
I had meant to leave this thread and never come back, but I keep getting dragged back in...

First, by your definition, I doubt that there is a single piece of "non-fiction" in the entire universe. Even technical papers and college textbooks are plagued by inaccuracies and mistakes. If you can produce a single document that you or anyone else can guarantee is 100% error free, then you might have a case. Otherwise, your definition of "fiction" doesn't hold true because by it all documents are necessarily fiction.

Second, I would like to see evidence supporting your claim that "there's a lot of stuff that we know for a fact to be false." This statement is strictly your opinion and doesn't hold up under scrutiny. You can't prove or disprove that there is a God; lack of proof doesn't give you irrefutable conclusive evidence that He doesn't exist. Furthermore, the very definition of a miracle indicates that one is something that happens outside the realm of "normal" reality. If God does exist, and he performs a miracle, it is only logical that the miracle can't be repeated by modern science because, again by definition, it is something that only God can do. Just because we can't part a sea doesn't mean that God can't, provided that he does exist, which you can't prove one way or another.

In short, your arguments are flawed to the point of being useless.

You just pwned yourself. LOL

 

[NuclearNed]

Originally posted by: Ronin

Originally posted by: NuclearNed
I had meant to leave this thread and never come back, but I keep getting dragged back in...

First, by your definition, I doubt that there is a single piece of "non-fiction" in the entire universe. Even technical papers and college textbooks are plagued by inaccuracies and mistakes. If you can produce a single document that you or anyone else can guarantee is 100% error free, then you might have a case. Otherwise, your definition of "fiction" doesn't hold true because by it all documents are necessarily fiction.

Second, I would like to see evidence supporting your claim that "there's a lot of stuff that we know for a fact to be false." This statement is strictly your opinion and doesn't hold up under scrutiny. You can't prove or disprove that there is a God; lack of proof doesn't give you irrefutable conclusive evidence that He doesn't exist. Furthermore, the very definition of a miracle indicates that one is something that happens outside the realm of "normal" reality. If God does exist, and he performs a miracle, it is only logical that the miracle can't be repeated by modern science because, again by definition, it is something that only God can do. Just because we can't part a sea doesn't mean that God can't, provided that he does exist, which you can't prove one way or another.

In short, your arguments are flawed to the point of being useless.

You just pwned yourself. LOL

How?

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: NuclearNed

I had meant to leave this thread and never come back, but I keep getting dragged back in...

First, by your definition, I doubt that there is a single piece of "non-fiction" in the entire universe. Even technical papers and college textbooks are plagued by inaccuracies and mistakes. If you can produce a single document that you or anyone else can guarantee is 100% error free, then you might have a case. Otherwise, your definition of "fiction" doesn't hold true because by it all documents are necessarily fiction.

Second, I would like to see evidence supporting your claim that "there's a lot of stuff that we know for a fact to be false." This statement is strictly your opinion and doesn't hold up under scrutiny. You can't prove or disprove that there is a God; lack of proof doesn't give you irrefutable conclusive evidence that He doesn't exist. Furthermore, the very definition of a miracle indicates that one is something that happens outside the realm of "normal" reality. If God does exist, and he performs a miracle, it is only logical that the miracle can't be repeated by modern science because, again by definition, it is something that only God can do. Just because we can't part a sea doesn't mean that God can't, provided that he does exist, which you can't prove one way or another.

In short, your arguments are flawed to the point of being useless.

Yours are also.

there must usually be EVIDENCE that a REASONABLE person may consider in determining likely "truth".

Your bible was the OFFICIAL DOCUMENT of the Jews for hundreds of years before christians adopted it. . . the Jews' "story" and their world view.
These people have MOTIVE to LIE . . . being "god's chosen" and having a divinely "promised land".
:thumbsdown:

strange, there are no evidence of miracles [today] and your bible recounts nothing more that the long lost and likely altered testimony of a few people

 

[nakedfrog]

Originally posted by: Mail5398
Pascal's Wager my friends. It is much better to believe and be wrong than not to believe and be wrong.

Pascal's Wager is a sucker bet. Better hope you bet on the right god.
I'm not deriding belief, but belief for that reason alone is folly, for exactly the reason I gave.

 

[redgtxdi]

Originally posted by: apoppin

strange, there are no evidence of miracles [today] and your bible recounts nothing more that the long lost and likely altered testimony of a few people

No miracles today??

Wow.........you might wanna splash some water on your face before you research that one. You're gonna get a little overhwhelmed with the amount of miracles recounted by doctors throughout the world. Many of them every demonination of every belief or lack thereof..........imagineable.

Fact of the matter is there are probably too many to count these days. Go to your local county hospital and find the chief resident there & ask them if they've ever seen a miracle. They'll probably ask you.........."Which one?"

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: redgtxdi

Originally posted by: apoppin

strange, there are no evidence of miracles [today] and your bible recounts nothing more that the long lost and likely altered testimony of a few people

No miracles today??

Wow.........you might wanna splash some water on your face before you research that one. You're gonna get a little overhwhelmed with the amount of miracles recounted by doctors throughout the world. Many of them every demonination of every belief or lack thereof..........imagineable.

Fact of the matter is there are probably too many to count these days. Go to your local county hospital and find the chief resident there & ask them if they've ever seen a miracle. They'll probably ask you.........."Which one?"

every baby born is a "miracle" . . . sure . . .

that's NOT what i mean
:disgust:

i'll try again. . .
NOTHING remotely resembling the "miracles" of the bible are in evidence today
[pick that one apart if you dare]

try a little cold water, yourself
:roll:

 

[kitkat22]

Think car accident survivors. There are several instances where people have lived that should not have. Those are the easy ones to point out because you see those ones everyday.

We have one out here that just happened recently. The car accident was really bad, there was not much left of the car. Two of the passengers managed to survive with minor cuts and bruises. The other two were severely injured, one with serious head trauma. The one with head trauma was in a coma for weeks. They did not expect much in the way of any recovery, actually they were suspecting paralysis. He is now out of the coma, in physical therapy, he is talking, he can read, they are expecting a very complet recovery. Miracle? Coincidence? Either way you look at it he should not have lived and if he did live he would have had some major brain trauma which would have prevented him from doing anything.

What would you consider a miracle then? Another I can think of is the forming of the American Nation. Study the history of the event and you'll see that there was a lot more at play then just mere chance. Everything was against the formation of the US. All the major governments of the day were monarchial/dictatorship/anything but democratic. The British army was the only army at the time. George Washington just happened to survive the crossing of the Potamic River by a fog bank that stirred up.

There are several from Mormon history that were witnessed not by a few, but hundreds of people. Zion's camp is very famous and those events were/are very well documented across several journals and points of view.

You are welcome to not accept these as miracles, that's fine. Proving miracles is just like proving the existence of God. It can't be done, because there is no testable null hypothesis. However, on that same note you can't prove there is no God for the very same reason. Likewise with miracles. The scientific world can't "prove" anything, they can only fail to disprove. Take any science course and for one aspect of science they will all agree. Failure to reject the null hypothesis does not mean something is true. For example, for the longest time people accepted the fact the world was flat. They had failed, at the time, to disprove the hypothesis. They had no evidence to suggest otherwise, until Galileo or whoever it was proved it otherwise. Even though we accept the earth as round today and we can see the reality of it, it is not proven, there is just nothing to say against it. Think of gravity, time, cells, quantum mechanics each one of these things had previously understood and accepted theories about that which subsequently fell by the wayside as further understanding came about. Einstein has already been proven incorrect about General Relativity because a higher law was found of the governance of light, time and gravity. If you can give me an experiment that you can reliably test to prove/disprove the existence of God, the Bible, the Book of Mormon, or miracles you are a greater person than us all and worthy of several Nobel prizes. Good luck, mate!

I do believe in miracles. You can call me brainwashed, delusional or whatever, but for my life I feel that I am a better individual for believing in something greater. You can criticize, demean and make fun, but when it all comes down to it, I would rather take the approach that God created the earth and see His hand in all that happens then live my existence choosing to believe otherwise. I do not know how God created the earth, I do not know when Christ will come again, as a matter of fact I don't know a lot of things, but I plan to ultimately find out and if it takes forever and then some to do it, so be it.

 

[nakedfrog]

Originally posted by: cscpianoman
For example, for the longest time people accepted the fact the world was flat. They had failed, at the time, to disprove the hypothesis. They had no evidence to suggest otherwise, until Galileo or whoever it was proved it otherwise. Even though we accept the earth as round today and we can see the reality of it, it is not proven, there is just nothing to say against it.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding you... but are you saying we have no proof that the Earth is round?