The Book of Mormon is FICTION!

[kitkat22]

Just because evidence has not been found doesn't mean that evidence will not be found. In that respect there are physical evidences for both the Bible and Book of Mormon. Both these books are extremely difficult to prove because they were written quite a long time ago. If you want evidences of the Book of Mormon FARMS has extensive publications on that subject and responses to many of the questions posed by those attacking the LDS faith.

Back to the original topic, I don't agree with posting something like this on a car. Jesus taught through love and respect, but here is someone attempting to bash on another religion when he should be voicing the virtues of his own. It would appear that if this person can prove all the other religions wrong his must be right. That's really poor logic and he will spend a very long time trying to accomplish his goal.

I am a member of the LDS Church. I served a mission in sunny Phoenix, AZ and I enjoyed the experience. I would do it again if I had the chance. I did preach our religion, but I also got to meet incredible people from other religions who I greatly admire and respect. I was impressed that there are those who have strong family values and try to teach their children how to live good and honest lives. On the other side, I say those ravaged by drugs and abuse and those who care about nothing in life but wealth. Where else could you get such an experience?

If we really are supposed to be that bad, why are we trying to do so much good?

 

[SaltBoy]

Originally posted by: cscpianoman
If we really are supposed to be that bad, why are we trying to do so much good?

I blame Bush. Or Jon Heder.

 

[Ronin]

I have to bring up the Dead Sea Scrolls again. They are HISTORICAL documents that corroborate much of the BoM, whether NuclearNed would have you believe otherwise or not. There is also a book called Out of Darkness (I believe..it may be another) that might be of interest to some of you. I'll check the title tonight when I get home, but it's an excellent read.

 

[NuclearNed]

Originally posted by: Ronin
I have to bring up the Dead Sea Scrolls again. They are HISTORICAL documents that corroborate much of the BoM, whether NuclearNed would have you believe otherwise or not. There is also a book called Out of Darkness (I believe..it may be another) that might be of interest to some of you. I'll check the title tonight when I get home, but it's an excellent read.

A good read on the subject of the Dead Sea Scrolls and Mormonism (paragraphs desperately needed)

 

[bobbybe01]

Originally posted by: NuclearNed

Originally posted by: Ronin
I have to bring up the Dead Sea Scrolls again. They are HISTORICAL documents that corroborate much of the BoM, whether NuclearNed would have you believe otherwise or not. There is also a book called Out of Darkness (I believe..it may be another) that might be of interest to some of you. I'll check the title tonight when I get home, but it's an excellent read.

A good read on the subject of the Dead Sea Scrolls and Mormonism (paragraphs desperately needed)

Yeah, that seems like a fair and balanced site.

 

[NuclearNed]

Originally posted by: bobbybe01

Originally posted by: NuclearNed

Originally posted by: Ronin
I have to bring up the Dead Sea Scrolls again. They are HISTORICAL documents that corroborate much of the BoM, whether NuclearNed would have you believe otherwise or not. There is also a book called Out of Darkness (I believe..it may be another) that might be of interest to some of you. I'll check the title tonight when I get home, but it's an excellent read.

A good read on the subject of the Dead Sea Scrolls and Mormonism (paragraphs desperately needed)

Yeah, that seems like a fair and balanced site.

Read the article.

 

[batmanuel]

South Park said it best:

Dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb.

 

[robphelan]

Originally posted by: NuclearNed
To the people who claim the Bible is fiction:

I'm guessing you are highly uneducated about the Bible and ancient history. There are mountains of tangible physical archaeological evidence that prove that virtually all of the events described in the Bible actually happened. Heck, there are even secular accounts proving that Jesus was an actual person. Choosing to not believe that God exists or that he was involved in those events is entirely your right, but claiming that those events are fictional exposes you as an ignorant kiddie.

The same can't be said about the book of Mormon - there is no evidence supporting the events described therein. Some of the early founders of that cult even recanted on their deathbeds, saying that they made up the whole thing.

plz explain Noah's Ark - how a guy gathered up 2 of every single animal - everywhere - and put them in a boat while the earth flooded. then those 2 animals re-populated their entire species? can you say inbreeding?

EDIT: cr@p.. i just wasted my 999 post on this topic

 

[NuclearNed]

Originally posted by: robphelan

Originally posted by: NuclearNed
To the people who claim the Bible is fiction:

I'm guessing you are highly uneducated about the Bible and ancient history. There are mountains of tangible physical archaeological evidence that prove that virtually all of the events described in the Bible actually happened. Heck, there are even secular accounts proving that Jesus was an actual person. Choosing to not believe that God exists or that he was involved in those events is entirely your right, but claiming that those events are fictional exposes you as an ignorant kiddie.

The same can't be said about the book of Mormon - there is no evidence supporting the events described therein. Some of the early founders of that cult even recanted on their deathbeds, saying that they made up the whole thing.

plz explain Noah's Ark - how a guy gathered up 2 of every single animal - everywhere - and put them in a boat while the earth flooded. then those 2 animals re-populated their entire species? can you say inbreeding?

EDIT: cr@p.. i just wasted my 999 post on this topic

<sigh>

My only horse in this race is that some people in this thread made the incorrect statement that the Bible is entirely fictional, a claim which no person who has done a minimum of reading would make. The Bible is very accurate historically. That is the only claim I'm making about the Bible. I'm not saying that God or miracles exist.

For your question, look at the link somewhere above showing that evidence exists that suggest that the story of Noah has some truth to it. I'm not saying that the miracle that you cited actually happened, just that there possibly was a catastrophic flood in ancient times, the chronicling of which has been passed down to us in some form or other in the Bible.

 

[Ronin]

I've figured it out. NuclearNed is a JW!

 

[NuclearNed]

Originally posted by: Ronin
I've figured it out. NuclearNed is a JW!

Actually, no. Keep guessing!!!

 

[Stuxnet]

Originally posted by: Vic
Freedom of belief for others is absolutely intolerable to most people. They cannot allow it. It is a basic function of insecure people that they must enforce conformity on other people in all things, but most especially belief (as man IS the animal that believes). That one person might believe in some thing or god that they don't believe in, or that they might believe in god in some fashion differently than they believe, is not acceptable. The strength of their own beliefs are so weak that they require that other people believe (or dis-believe, if you will) as they do, are offended when others do not, and must force them to do so by any means at their disposal.

You lost me at hello

 

[DaShen]

Originally posted by: NuclearNed

Originally posted by: Ronin
I have to bring up the Dead Sea Scrolls again. They are HISTORICAL documents that corroborate much of the BoM, whether NuclearNed would have you believe otherwise or not. There is also a book called Out of Darkness (I believe..it may be another) that might be of interest to some of you. I'll check the title tonight when I get home, but it's an excellent read.

A good read on the subject of the Dead Sea Scrolls and Mormonism (paragraphs desperately needed)

Yeah, I have read the same thing in a book of mine before. Good link.

 

[MechJinx]

Woohoo! Another Morman bashing thread! Resident 'cultist' checking in! I love reading these threads and finding out what I 'believe'. It's amazing what people will believe about something they know nothing about. I've said it before and I'll say it again, if you want to learn about your car, do you go to a doctor? If you want to learn about medicine, do you go to a mechanic? So, if you want to learn about The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, why do you go to people who firmly believe that we're insane? Ask someone who believes in it. If you are a reasonably(it's a stretch for some, I know) smart individual, you should be able to make your own judgement based on what the member tells you. It's not that hard. hehehe

Pile it on! My afternoon could use some more levity!

 

[Ronin]

The proper way to find information is at least to check sources of members and non-members alike, I would think.

 

[LostUte]

Originally posted by: SketchMaster
I'm going to go ahead and guess you are being sarcastic.

I'm Mormon we don't have a crazy hand shake, six wifes, horns on are heads, sacrifice sheep or any other animal. The under garments are basically a reminder of the promises that we made to god, alot like the Jewish yamaka. The reason we keep a year supply of food is because you never know when you will need it. Take the recent hurricanes, if half those people had food storage or at the very least a 72 hour kit (a back-pack filled with food, first aid and other things) Then that whole mess in the super dome would have been alot less severe.

Giving the 10% is a way of giving back to the church, where do you think they get the money to build all those church buildings and temples? And you don't HAVE to give tithing, they won't come to your house and beat you if you don't want to give the money.


The other stuff you brought up I would love to talk about but it's a bit too complex to try and cover it all in one post. And I'm sure as soon as I post this, the antichurch people are going to come out of the wood work. But IF you do want more and better answers you can go to www.mormon.org/ or www.lds.org

Either you haven't been to the temple, or you're forgetting about it. Yes, there are handshakes.

Originally posted by: Vic
Heh. I love these arguments. Assuming that you are a Christian knocking the Mormons, your arguments mean that you don't even know your own faith and have probably never read the Bible.

Special garments: Numbers 15
Special handshake: doesn't exist
Special name: Jewish tradition
Populate the earth: Genesis 1:28
Year's worth of food: Genesis 41
Tithing: Leviticus 27
Getting your own planet: not an actual Mormon belief

In a sense you are correct, but fundamentally you are wrong about that. Mormons don't believe that you will only get a planet. Mormons believe that those who are worthy enough and met all the requirments (baptism, going through the temple, temple marriage, etc.) and keeping the promises you make while doing these things will not just receive a planet. They become gods, able to do everything their god has done.

So, in effect, you don't just get a planet...if you desire it, you have your own universe...or whatever a god would desire. Then you can start populating worlds and repeating the process.

As for what are my qualifications? I have been a member of the Mormon church my entire life. I have been on a two year mission. However, I am now agnostic, so don't I believe it anymore.

Hence the new screen name. If someone I know were to read this with my regular name, they would immediatley know who I am. Mormonism can be very clanish with their beliefs, so I don't particulary desire for anyone to know I no longer believe.

 

[Dr. Detroit]

Originally posted by: LostUte

Originally posted by: SketchMaster
I'm going to go ahead and guess you are being sarcastic.

I'm Mormon we don't have a crazy hand shake, six wifes, horns on are heads, sacrifice sheep or any other animal. The under garments are basically a reminder of the promises that we made to god, alot like the Jewish yamaka. The reason we keep a year supply of food is because you never know when you will need it. Take the recent hurricanes, if half those people had food storage or at the very least a 72 hour kit (a back-pack filled with food, first aid and other things) Then that whole mess in the super dome would have been alot less severe.

Giving the 10% is a way of giving back to the church, where do you think they get the money to build all those church buildings and temples? And you don't HAVE to give tithing, they won't come to your house and beat you if you don't want to give the money.


The other stuff you brought up I would love to talk about but it's a bit too complex to try and cover it all in one post. And I'm sure as soon as I post this, the antichurch people are going to come out of the wood work. But IF you do want more and better answers you can go to www.mormon.org/ or www.lds.org

Either you haven't been to the temple, or you're forgetting about it. Yes, there are handshakes.

Originally posted by: Vic
Heh. I love these arguments. Assuming that you are a Christian knocking the Mormons, your arguments mean that you don't even know your own faith and have probably never read the Bible.

Special garments: Numbers 15
Special handshake: doesn't exist
Special name: Jewish tradition
Populate the earth: Genesis 1:28
Year's worth of food: Genesis 41
Tithing: Leviticus 27
Getting your own planet: not an actual Mormon belief

In a sense you are correct, but fundamentally you are wrong about that. Mormons don't believe that you will only get a planet. Mormons believe that those who are worthy enough and met all the requirments (baptism, going through the temple, temple marriage, etc.) and keeping the promises you make while doing these things will not just receive a planet. They become gods, able to do everything their god has done.

So, in effect, you don't just get a planet...if you desire it, you have your own universe...or whatever a god would desire. Then you can start populating worlds and repeating the process.

As for what are my qualifications? I have been a member of the Mormon church my entire life. I have been on a two year mission. However, I am now agnostic, so don't I believe it anymore.

Hence the new screen name. If someone I know were to read this with my regular name, they would immediatley know who I am. Mormonism can be very clanish with their beliefs, so I don't particulary desire for anyone to know I no longer believe.

Congrats! I work with Mormons every day, have been for the last 5+ years. I find their beliefs almost humorous. As an ex-cathloic and now in the realm of being agnostic with a strong sense of atheism thrown int. (yes, they are different)

When I was told about Hinckley being the messenger for God, I nearly spit up and laughed. The all white suits to enter the temple? Being told, not to socialize with those outside their faith.

And come on, Joseph Smith was a Snake Oil salsesman and he rewrote the book as he saw fit, he changed rules in order to attract memebers. I don't expect any of you to change your faith but come-on, the whole becoming a God and getting your own planet/universe to rule, just seems a tad far fetched...

 

[Ronin]

Coming from an almost atheist, I would find it immensely amusing if you said anything different.

 

[bobbybe01]

Originally posted by: Fmr12B
Congrats! I work with Mormons every day, have been for the last 5+ years. I find their beliefs almost humorous. As an ex-cathloic and now in the realm of being agnostic with a strong sense of atheism thrown int. (yes, they are different)

When I was told about Hinckley being the messenger for God, I nearly spit up and laughed. The all white suits to enter the temple? Being told, not to socialize with those outside their faith.

And come on, Joseph Smith was a Snake Oil salsesman and he rewrote the book as he saw fit, he changed rules in order to attract memebers. I don't expect any of you to change your faith but come-on, the whole becoming a God and getting your own planet/universe to rule, just seems a tad far fetched...

Yeah, you seem like a real respectful person. What's wrong with wearing white suits in a place that they believe is holy? And as far as I know, Latter-Day Saints are not discouraged to associate with those outside their fath. Ad to address any of the issues you brought up is pointless, as it seems like you've already made your mind. You're stretching the truth way too much...

 

[brian_riendeau]

 

[dugweb]

I don't see why the concept of progressing to become as a god is so 'far fetched'

think about it. If we are to live for 'eternity' after this life, and in that eternity if there is any progression at all, ANY progression at all... eventually you will become perfect. It's like a mathmatical equation. Even if there are a hundred billion million obstacles to getting there, on an infinite time table, we would all get there.

Contrast that to an eternal after life where you don't progress. Isn't that essentially being damned? Wouldn't that be hell? To live for eternity in an absolutely unchanging state of mind?

fyi... we are treading thin ice discussing 'doctrine' like this, because although it is somewhat prevelant in the mormon community, it is not necessarily taught as official church doctrine. So in the sake of fairness, please remember that much of the controversial doctrine being discussed in here, is in fact merely popular speculation.

 

[Mail5398]

Pascal's Wager my friends. It is much better to believe and be wrong than not to believe and be wrong.

 

[LostUte]

Originally posted by: dugweb
fyi... we are treading thin ice discussing 'doctrine' like this, because although it is somewhat prevelant in the mormon community, it is not necessarily taught as official church doctrine. So in the sake of fairness, please remember that much of the controversial doctrine being discussed in here, is in fact merely popular speculation.

dugweb, this isn't controversial doctrine within the mormon church at all. It's is contained in the Doctrine and Covenants, Joseph Smith (and other prophets) have spoke on the subject very, very clearly with no room for doubt. Here's a sample of Joseph Smith from the King Follet Discourse...

"Here, then, is eternal life -- to know the only wise and true God; and you have got to learn how to be Gods yourselves, and to be kings and priests to God, the same as all Gods have done before you..."

"What is it? To inherit the same power, the same glory, and the same exaltation, until you arrive at the station of a God and ascend the throne of eternal power, the same as those who have gone before."

I don't see how you can get any clearer than that. However, there has been a systematic effort in the recent past to somewhat hide this doctrine from those who don't know much about the church. For instance, some years back Mormonism's leader Gordon Hinckley, said on national television that the phrase "As man is, God once was. As God is, man may become." was more of a couplet than anything else; thereby implying we didn't know much about the subject. However, at his very next address to the general membership of the church, he assured them that he knew the doctrines of the church (to much laughter from the audience).

 

[Velk]

Originally posted by: NuclearNed

Originally posted by: robphelan

Originally posted by: NuclearNed
To the people who claim the Bible is fiction:

I'm guessing you are highly uneducated about the Bible and ancient history. There are mountains of tangible physical archaeological evidence that prove that virtually all of the events described in the Bible actually happened. Heck, there are even secular accounts proving that Jesus was an actual person. Choosing to not believe that God exists or that he was involved in those events is entirely your right, but claiming that those events are fictional exposes you as an ignorant kiddie.

The same can't be said about the book of Mormon - there is no evidence supporting the events described therein. Some of the early founders of that cult even recanted on their deathbeds, saying that they made up the whole thing.

plz explain Noah's Ark - how a guy gathered up 2 of every single animal - everywhere - and put them in a boat while the earth flooded. then those 2 animals re-populated their entire species? can you say inbreeding?

EDIT: cr@p.. i just wasted my 999 post on this topic

<sigh>

My only horse in this race is that some people in this thread made the incorrect statement that the Bible is entirely fictional, a claim which no person who has done a minimum of reading would make. The Bible is very accurate historically. That is the only claim I'm making about the Bible. I'm not saying that God or miracles exist.

For your question, look at the link somewhere above showing that evidence exists that suggest that the story of Noah has some truth to it. I'm not saying that the miracle that you cited actually happened, just that there possibly was a catastrophic flood in ancient times, the chronicling of which has been passed down to us in some form or other in the Bible.

Come now, you can't really take an innocent stance here - that 'virtually all of the events described in the Bible actually happened' is at least as an outrageous stance as suggesting that everything in the bible is fictional and in no way corresponds to 'I'm not saying that God or miracles exist' by any form of rational logic.

Are you *really* surprised that you got aggressively skeptical responses to that claim ?

 

[DAGTA]

Originally posted by: dugweb
I don't see why the concept of progressing to become as a god is so 'far fetched'

think about it. If we are to live for 'eternity' after this life, and in that eternity if there is any progression at all, ANY progression at all... eventually you will become perfect. It's like a mathmatical equation. Even if there are a hundred billion million obstacles to getting there, on an infinite time table, we would all get there.

Contrast that to an eternal after life where you don't progress. Isn't that essentially being damned? Wouldn't that be hell? To live for eternity in an absolutely unchanging state of mind?

fyi... we are treading thin ice discussing 'doctrine' like this, because although it is somewhat prevelant in the mormon community, it is not necessarily taught as official church doctrine. So in the sake of fairness, please remember that much of the controversial doctrine being discussed in here, is in fact merely popular speculation.

It's a dangerous idea. To consider one equal to God is very dangerous.