The birthers are at it again

[fskimospy]

This is meant for the guy your are quoting and not you.

Also well documented that Bush was an excellent debater when he was younger, and suspected that his gaffs, etc, where due to age related brain functioning problems. Obama is young, and if you compare Bush's debate performance around the same age as Obama, Bush would stomp him.

Not saying I agree with either on policies, but you are taking an old man's mind feeling the affects of age, and comparing it to a younger mind. Not a good comparison.

I really don't understand this constant obsession with somehow proving that Obama isn't as smart as everyone thinks he is. The idea that you're going to conjure up a Bush from 20 years ago and that he would somehow 'stomp' present day Obama in a debate is a ridiculous fantasy.

1.) The exercise is absurd on its face.
2.) Obama proved to be an excellent debater in the election.
3.) Presidential debates have little to do with actual debating ability.
4.) Frequently, those who were supposed to 'stomp' someone in a debate did nothing of the sort.

Obama is by all available measures an extremely intelligent individual with enormous gifts for speaking and debating. You don't have to like him or his policies, but this continuing effort to show that he's somehow not so smart is a waste of your time.

 

[cybrsage]

Obama is by all available measures an extremely intelligent individual with enormous gifts for speaking and debating.

Can you post the measures by which you come up with "extremely"? Also, can you state what you mean by extremely?

To me, Hawking is extremely intelligent. Obama, while intelligent, is no where close to Hawking, which would make him no where close to extremely intelligent.

 

[Matt1970]

I'd bet a pitcher of beer that his IQ is at least 120. True that's not super high, but more than one standard deviation is "significant". I personally suspect he's between 130 and 150, but I don't have much to go on to narrow that down. Being President of the Harvard Law Review indicates excellent social aptitude and at least a decent baseline intelligence.

The problem with this whole discussion is the conflation may people make between intelligence and the [purported] correctness of one's policy views. People assert that because Obama's policies on X or beleif in the relationship between Y and Z are wrong (by somebody else's standards) that he is necessarily stupid. This is stupid. Intelligent people hold incredibly diverse views on a good many things - especially political things.

The problem is the current IQ ratings are far from what they used to be. Jessica Simpson scored a 155 and that girl shouldn't have score anything over 100.

 

[Paul98]

They will never be satisfied, they don't care about proof. Birthers will believe what ever they want despite the facts nothing will change their minds.

 

[Moonbeam]

I really don't understand this constant obsession with somehow proving that Obama isn't as smart as everyone thinks he is. QUOTE]

I don't know how you can say you don't understand when I just got through explaining it. Fair-mindedness is incompatible with ego. When you don't like somebody you will not give them credit for being smarter than you unless you know that not being smart isn't a defect.

And what is being smart anyway. I saw an IQ test in an old magazine, the worlds hardest IQ test is was labeled, and it started our with advise not to worry if you couldn't answer a single question because you would have to have at least an IQ of 122 to do so. Well that was like a burr under my saddle so I started reading, and Jesus Christ, was that test messed up. I doubt my IQ is over 120 but I was able to answer lots and lots of them. There was no time limit and I don't like to be pushed. But it wasn't an IQ test at all, really, only a test on what information you have. For example, one I couldn't answer was this:

Teeth is to hen as nest is to ?. That one has baffled me for ages and the smart folk on OT didn't know either but now I know the answer, but winter is to hibernate as summer is to ? I knew instantly. The test makes the assumption that if you know a lot of stuff you are smart but it only means you have been exposed to a lot of rather esoteric information.

 

[Moonbeam]

The problem is the current IQ ratings are far from what they used to be. Jessica Simpson scored a 155 and that girl shouldn't have score anything over 100.

With thinking like that whatever you scored you shouldn't have scored either. Let me see, yes definitely, you are an 85.

 

[cybrsage]

For example, one I couldn't answer was this:

Teeth is to hen as nest is to ?

Wow, that is an ancient idiom. Does anyone who is not from farming country even use "scarce as a hen's teeth" these days? I guess growing up around the Amish gives me a higher IQ.

 

[Moonbeam]

Wow, that is an ancient idiom. Does anyone who is not from farming country even use "scarce as a hen's teeth" these days? I guess growing up around the Amish gives me a higher IQ.

So the answer is? Remember, this was billed as the world's hardest IQ test and I said that nobody on OT could get it so don't jump in with both feet. Scares as hen's teeth yes, but scarce isn't the answer. I spent hours looking at the mathematical relationships between the letters, assigning each letter a value, and that's isn't the right approach either. Here's the deal using your own words.

What farm country expression exactly mirrors scarce or rare as hen's teeth when replaced by scarce or rare as a ?'s nest?

PS, it isn't cuckoo.

 

[Jhhnn]

I really don't understand this constant obsession with somehow proving that Obama isn't as smart as everyone thinks he is. The idea that you're going to conjure up a Bush from 20 years ago and that he would somehow 'stomp' present day Obama in a debate is a ridiculous fantasy.

1.) The exercise is absurd on its face.
2.) Obama proved to be an excellent debater in the election.
3.) Presidential debates have little to do with actual debating ability.
4.) Frequently, those who were supposed to 'stomp' someone in a debate did nothing of the sort.

Obama is by all available measures an extremely intelligent individual with enormous gifts for speaking and debating. You don't have to like him or his policies, but this continuing effort to show that he's somehow not so smart is a waste of your time.

Not to mention the epic panties down spanking Obama administered to the Repub caucus early on. They declined any more such encounters, for obvious reasons.

Denying Obama's abilities is much the same as Birtherism- it's an attempt to deny him legitimacy.

 

[CLite]

Magna cum laude at Harvard Law = top 10% of the class. Grade inflation is basically irrelevant.

How is this discussion continuing after this gentleman's post? Barrack Obama is obviously upper-percentile "intelligent" considering he graduated top 10% of his Harvard law class. "grade inflation" doesn't lead to more than 10% of people getting Magna Cum Laude.

Sure debate his policies, but people trying to make themselves feel superior by trying to belittle his academic achievements just reveal to the world their own stunted intelligence.

 

[cybrsage]

So the answer is? Remember, this was billed as the world's hardest IQ test and I said that nobody on OT could get it so don't jump in with both feet. Scares as hen's teeth yes, but scarce isn't the answer. I spent hours looking at the mathematical relationships between the letters, assigning each letter a value, and that's isn't the right approach either. Here's the deal using your own words.

What farm country expression exactly mirrors scarce or rare as hen's teeth when replaced by scarce or rare as a ?'s nest?

PS, it isn't cuckoo.

Horse's nest or something like that, maybe Bull's nest, but I think it is horse...or donkey, but horse just sounds right. One of them four legged critters . Did it have multiple choice (they usually do)?

They really are stupid phrases. But in places where we "red up the room" (clean up the room) and "outen the light" (turn off the light) and say "throw your brother over the fence his hat", I guess I should not be surprised. Of course, many people here also still "nig-er rig" (jury rig) things and "Jew people down" (haggle) as well. Never did understand why nig-er rigging was a bad thing...you need to be pretty slick to make things work without the actually needed items.

Cannot say I would do stellar on the test, just that I have heard those specific ones in real life.

 

[cybrsage]

Yeah, anyone who says Obama is not intelligent is being as much of a partisan hack as anyone who says Bush is not intelligent. Both have above average intelligence, but neither have an intelligence that would make people say "wow, they are intelligent".

 

[thraashman]

Yeah, anyone who says Obama is not intelligent is being as much of a partisan hack as anyone who says Bush is not intelligent. Both have above average intelligence, but neither have an intelligence that would make people say "wow, they are intelligent".

Well I've seen both speak and seen the policies both have implemented. As a result I feel confident in saying that Bush was below average intelligence. Throughout most of his presidency I would have called him a raging idiot. His late presidency and post presidency have had him acting much less "run head first into a wall retarded". I would say Obama has him appearing at just above average intelligence. I'm also going to have to put both of them above where I view you.

 

[etrigan420]

How is this discussion continuing after this gentleman's post?

Well, you kind of have to look at the one guy in this thread keeping the discussion going to understand that...

 

[Zebo]

Oblivious to the Obvious

Obviously. What's even more obvious is how deceitful and conniving his mother was publishing his live birth in two Hawaiian newspapers knowing her half black baby would be president one day and this would come up.

 

[Matt1970]

With thinking like that whatever you scored you shouldn't have scored either. Let me see, yes definitely, you are an 85.

3. No insults or personal attacks.
(rule adopted by community vote Mar 06, 2012. Subject to renewal by community vote on Jun 06, 2012)

For your information I score a 119 back in the 80's. If you think Jessica Simpson is a Genius then I have a bridge I want to sell you.

 

[woolfe9999]

Not true at all.

Here is a nice little writeup:


[/LIST]http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_Barack_Obama's_IQ

It basically says we have absolutely no way of knowing what his IQ is, and anyone saying anything with certainty is selling snake oil.

I never gave any estimate with certainty. I responded to a post in which you had estimated his IQ in the 100-110 range by giving a counter-estimate based on his achievements, and now you respond to me with the "we can't know his IQ" argument? Let me get this straight. You can estimate his IQ but when I do it it's time to trot this out? Wow, the hypocrisy is astounding.

 

[boomerang]

Obviously. What's even more obvious is how deceitful and conniving his mother was publishing his live birth in two Hawaiian newspapers knowing her half black baby would be president one day and this would come up.

Don't be stupid because I know you're not. That line of thinking, although brought up constantly, is pretty absurd which is why it rarely receives a reply.

The birth certificate is a forgery. Why, is the question posed by the article. If you'd read it, you'd have known that.

Do we give the man a pass or do we investigate why he's foisted a forged BC on us and lied about its authenticity? It's a huge issue and it rises above political party affiliation. If we let it go, what about next time? Selective enforcement of our laws is not something to be taken lightly.

It's very convenient to label BC talk as coming from Obama haters, raaaacists and the like. That's not at the heart of the issue and the deflections in this form grew old and were ignored a long time ago. I don't believe they will be ignored much longer. It's time to adopt Chicago style politics. It's way past time to fight back. When faced with a knife, use a gun and all that. Do we stand up to the man in the highest position in the nation and tell him we think you're up to something and it's time to find out what or do we roll over and take it knowing next time it could be more brazen with a new face, a new party, a new ideology attached to it? I guess that's a question we need to ask ourselves and answer.

I think it's difficult if not impossible to know the full weight of the issues of the day as they unfold. Certainly some have enormous historical significance such as dropping atomic bombs that are readily apparent. Others will not be recognized for their importance for many decades, perhaps hundreds of years later as being turning points. The coming to power of an individual, a foreign policy decision, a choice regarding common currencies, etc. Do we let this pass? I have far less future ahead of me than the sum of my past. I will leave this decision to those that will live with its implications for far longer than I will. I will stand with them should they choose to fight because it's the right thing to do.

Our President has presented a forged BC to the nation and touted it as being genuine. Is he above the law? Big question with enormous implications. You're not being honest with yourself if you think otherwise.

They Have The Ring...

 

[Pens1566]

Not to mention the epic panties down spanking Obama administered to the Repub caucus early on. They declined any more such encounters, for obvious reasons.

Denying Obama's abilities is much the same as Birtherism- it's an attempt to deny him legitimacy.

Unpossible. I was informed earlier in the thread by cybersage that I was the only one that thought that was the outcome when he met with the GOP congress-persons.

 

[Jhhnn]

Unpossible. I was informed earlier in the thread by cybersage that I was the only one that thought that was the outcome when he met with the GOP congress-persons.

Heh. And I'm sure that the reason Repubs declined a repeat performance is because they didn't want to further embarrass the President, right?

Righties are capable of the most amazing mental contortions, kinda like people who work harder to avoid work than to do it... what they think is a product of what they believe, rather than vice versa.

 

[kage69]

I really don't understand this constant obsession with somehow proving that Obama isn't as smart as everyone thinks he is. The idea that you're going to conjure up a Bush from 20 years ago and that he would somehow 'stomp' present day Obama in a debate is a ridiculous fantasy.

1.) The exercise is absurd on its face.
2.) Obama proved to be an excellent debater in the election.
3.) Presidential debates have little to do with actual debating ability.
4.) Frequently, those who were supposed to 'stomp' someone in a debate did nothing of the sort.

Obama is by all available measures an extremely intelligent individual with enormous gifts for speaking and debating. You don't have to like him or his policies, but this continuing effort to show that he's somehow not so smart is a waste of your time.

Did someone say stomping?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/01/29/obama-goes-to-the-gop-lio_n_442331.html

If anyone has a link to anything even remotely close in ownage done by Bush, I'd love to see it.
Pretty stark difference between the two really... watching it live was hilarious, the Repubs in attendance all looked like they had just taken kicks to the nuts. Faux suddenly dropping the broadcast was hilariously sweet to see...

 

[Zebo]

Don't be stupid because I know you're not. That line of thinking, although brought up constantly, is pretty absurd which is why it rarely receives a reply.

The birth certificate is a forgery. Why, is the question posed by the article. If you'd read it, you'd have known that.

Do we give the man a pass or do we investigate why he's foisted a forged BC on us and lied about its authenticity? It's a huge issue and it rises above political party affiliation. If we let it go, what about next time? Selective enforcement of our laws is not something to be taken lightly.

It's very convenient to label BC talk as coming from Obama haters, raaaacists and the like. That's not at the heart of the issue and the deflections in this form grew old and were ignored a long time ago. I don't believe they will be ignored much longer. It's time to adopt Chicago style politics. It's way past time to fight back. When faced with a knife, use a gun and all that. Do we stand up to the man in the highest position in the nation and tell him we think you're up to something and it's time to find out what or do we roll over and take it knowing next time it could be more brazen with a new face, a new party, a new ideology attached to it? I guess that's a question we need to ask ourselves and answer.

I think it's difficult if not impossible to know the full weight of the issues of the day as they unfold. Certainly some have enormous historical significance such as dropping atomic bombs that are readily apparent. Others will not be recognized for their importance for many decades, perhaps hundreds of years later as being turning points. The coming to power of an individual, a foreign policy decision, a choice regarding common currencies, etc. Do we let this pass? I have far less future ahead of me than the sum of my past. I will leave this decision to those that will live with its implications for far longer than I will. I will stand with them should they choose to fight because it's the right thing to do.

Our President has presented a forged BC to the nation and touted it as being genuine. Is he above the law? Big question with enormous implications. You're not being honest with yourself if you think otherwise.

They Have The Ring...

I'm up for any good conspiracy and think all these politicians are crooks and liars but that's just one guys opinion who is not even a professional document examiner.

Here are legit opinions saying it's legit
http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/birthers/birthcertificate.asp

I don't have time to waste on this because evidence is overwhelming he's a natural born US citizen from other than birth certificates, not to mention he president now so he's passed the tests. I'd rather focus on bribes he takes from banking to not prosecute them or HC industry to force us into overpriced defective health care plans than this shit.

 

[Pens1566]

Did someone say stomping?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/01/29/obama-goes-to-the-gop-lio_n_442331.html

If anyone has a link to anything even remotely close in ownage done by Bush, I'd love to see it.
Pretty stark difference between the two really... watching it live was hilarious, the Repubs in attendance all looked like they had just taken kicks to the nuts. Faux suddenly dropping the broadcast was hilariously sweet to see...

Please see my earlier posts. It's not possible that anyone took the performance that way but me.

 

[Jhhnn]

Birtherism is just sour grapes, a way to claim that you lost because the other guy cheated.

As if not being a natural born citizen would give anybody an advantage in an election, but nobody rational ever claimed that birthers actually make sense.

They're losers, trying to rationalize that by saying their opponent should have been disqualified. The truth is too bitter for them to bear, so they enter denial at whatever level they can find.

 

[Zebo]

Birtherism is just sour grapes, a way to claim that you lost because the other guy cheated.

As if not being a natural born citizen would give anybody an advantage in an election, but nobody rational ever claimed that birthers actually make sense.

They're losers, trying to rationalize that by saying their opponent should have been disqualified. The truth is too bitter for them to bear, so they enter denial at whatever level they can find.

My favorite is when they say being black gave him an unfair advantage.