The birthers are at it again

[cybrsage]

Serious? You can disagree with Obama's policies and call him a failure as a president, but to consider him anything but intelligent and a intellectual heavyweight compared to Bush is laughable.

What do you base this opinion upon? Obama's inability to say more than two sentences without a bunch of uhms and uhs is worse than Bush speaking at the same level as those he wishes to communicate with?

But seriously, what do you base your opinion upon?

 

[nonlnear]

I consider myself only above average, but have had the privilege of attending a good school and working with some serious brains in Silicon Valley over the last 12 years. It astounds me that so many people have the chops to question the president's intelligence when their own achievements are so small.

Is it really so astounding? Sure Obama is no Hawking, but that's not really the accusation - and pretty much no successful politican is that intelligent. That Obama is at least significantly above average intelligence isn't really up for debate. However the phenomenon of poo throwing which you observe should not be dismissed so lightly. It is an important activity for socializing and mental development. Perhaps you should be more understanding.

For children, it might be the highlight of a visit to the zoo - for adults, it's usually fairly revolting, and an indication of the differences between us and our closest animal relatives, with whom we share 99 per cent of our DNA. But recent research has shown that chimpanzees throwing faeces is not a sign that the beasts are disgusting - or stupid. Chimps that throw more tend to be more intelligent, found researchers from Emory University - and those that are particularly accurate are the smartest.

The researchers conducted brain scans on chimps, and compared this with notes on their behaviour. They found that chimps who throw the most - and hit most - had highly developed motor functions - but also appeared to have more developed speech centres. The most prolific throwers didn't just 'scan' as good communicators - they were the most sociable in the group. It hints that in some way, the ability to pick up and throw objects is a precursor to developing speech.

The researchers, who published their paper in Philosophical Transactions of the Royal Society, are still unclear as to why hurling your own filth might be a crucial evolutionary step towards speech. Merely throwing seems to be a step towards tool use - which in turn is a step towards speech. 'Neurological adaptations associated with throwing may have served as the precursor for the emergence of speech in early hominids,' said the researchers. Whether that makes it any easier to watch at the zoo is another matter.

 

[Pens1566]

What do you base this opinion upon? Obama's inability to say more than two sentences without a bunch of uhms and uhs is worse than Bush speaking at the same level as those he wishes to communicate with?

But seriously, what do you base your opinion upon?

Those "uhms and uhs" were enough to make the GOP congressional group as a whole look completely stupid not so long ago.

 

[cybrsage]

That Obama is at least significantly above average intelligence isn't really up for debate.

Yes, it actually is. Do you have anything, other than your personal opinion, to support he is "significantly above average intelligence"?

 

[cybrsage]

Those "uhms and uhs" were enough to make the GOP congressional group as a whole look completely stupid not so long ago.

I bet you honestly believe this tripe!

 

[nonlnear]

Yes, it actually is. Do you have anything, other than your personal opinion, to support he is "significantly above average intelligence"?

I'd bet a pitcher of beer that his IQ is at least 120. True that's not super high, but more than one standard deviation is "significant". I personally suspect he's between 130 and 150, but I don't have much to go on to narrow that down. Being President of the Harvard Law Review indicates excellent social aptitude and at least a decent baseline intelligence.

The problem with this whole discussion is the conflation may people make between intelligence and the [purported] correctness of one's policy views. People assert that because Obama's policies on X or beleif in the relationship between Y and Z are wrong (by somebody else's standards) that he is necessarily stupid. This is stupid. Intelligent people hold incredibly diverse views on a good many things - especially political things.

 

[HomerJS]

Yes, it actually is. Do you have anything, other than your personal opinion, to support he is "significantly above average intelligence"?

You are looking to pick a fight out of thin air. If someone made the same statement about Neil Degrasse Tyson and you just didn't like him your response would be the same.

 

[Pens1566]

I bet you honestly believe this tripe!

Yeah, it was just me that thought so at the time.

Are you seriously this ignorant, or is it just an act?

 

[cybrsage]

I'd bet a pitcher of beer that his IQ is at least 120. True that's not super high, but more than one standard deviation is "significant". I personally suspect he's between 130 and 150, but I don't have much to go on to narrow that down. Being President of the Harvard Law Review indicates excellent social aptitude and at least a decent baseline intelligence.

I agree he is at least at the top of average in intelligence. Possibly a little higher, though that is in doubt. I would never grant him "significantly higher". I see nothing which would warrant such a thing. I would probably put him in the 100 - 110 range. Being a good manipulator makes people think he is smarter than he is, imo.

EDIT: Of course, this is only discussing the standard IQ type of intelligence, which is only one of 5 types of intelligence.

The problem with this whole discussion is the conflation may people make between intelligence and the [purported] correctness of one's policy views. People assert that because Obama's policies on X or beleif in the relationship between Y and Z are wrong (by somebody else's standards) that he is necessarily stupid. This is stupid. Intelligent people hold incredibly diverse views on a good many things - especially political things.

Agreed. I disliked a lot of Carter's policies, etc, but there is no doubt he was a very smart man.

 

[cybrsage]

Yeah, it was just me that thought so at the time.

Are you seriously this ignorant, or is it just an act?

I was right, you DO actually believe it!

 

[cybrsage]

You are looking to pick a fight out of thin air. If someone made the same statement about Neil Degrasse Tyson and you just didn't like him your response would be the same.

Nah, I not respond, since I have never seen him do anthing or read anything by him, so I have no frame of reference.

What has Obama done that makes you think he is significantly above average intelligence?

 

[HomerJS]

Nah, I not respond, since I have never seen him do anthing or read anything by him, so I have no frame of reference.

What has Obama done that makes you think he is significantly above average intelligence?

He has enough of a body of work to suggest it is true. None of the past POTUSs that I know of have taken intelligence tests so we judge by their body of work and listening to them speak.

Absent that we are just quibbling over the definition of "significant". If by that you mean genius I would agree with you.

 

[woolfe9999]

I agree he is at least at the top of average in intelligence. Possibly a little higher, though that is in doubt. I would never grant him "significantly higher". I see nothing which would warrant such a thing. I would probably put him in the 100 - 110 range. Being a good manipulator makes people think he is smarter than he is, imo.

EDIT: Of course, this is only discussing the standard IQ type of intelligence, which is only one of 5 types of intelligence.



Agreed. I disliked a lot of Carter's policies, etc, but there is no doubt he was a very smart man.

It would have been utterly impossible for him to get passing grades at Harvard Law with the IQ range you suggest. 130-140 is probably an average Harvard law mind. The LSAT is heavily g-loaded and is used as an alternative for Mensa qualification. Your assessment of his intelligence is, needless to say, not terribly objective.

 

[cybrsage]

He has enough of a body of work to suggest it is true. None of the past POTUSs that I know of have taken intelligence tests so we judge by their body of work and listening to them speak.

I think you are confusing learned with intelligent.

Absent that we are just quibbling over the definition of "significant". If by that you mean genius I would agree with you.

I see him at the top half of average. Nothing even close to significant in that.

 

[cybrsage]

It would have been utterly impossible for him to get passing grades at Harvard Law with the IQ range you suggest. 130-140 is probably an average Harvard law mind. The LSAT is heavily g-loaded and is used as an alternative for Mensa qualification. Your assessment of his intelligence is, needless to say, not terribly objective.

Not true at all.

Here is a nice little writeup:

He has not released that information. From the information available:

• The average IQ for a college graduate with a bachelor's degree in the U.S. is 115.
  
  Obama graduated Magna Cum Laude from Harvard Law School.

• Obama's IQ has been estimated anywhere from 110-165. He is a graduate of Columbia University and Harvard Law School, where he served as editor, and later as president of the Harvard Law Review; which is an extremely prestigious position. Obama also taught at the University of Chicago for over 10 years, a top-ranked university in the United States. However, these achievement-based estimates fail to account for the possibility that Obama was a beneficiary of affirmative action, which based on collegiate averages would lower his estimated IQ to the 115-120 range.

• Obama attended an elite private school in Honolulu as a scholarship student. Since all of the graduates from that school at that time took collegiate aptitude tests and he was not a National Merit Scholar, Semifinalist, or Outstanding Participant, his maximum possible score on the SAT was 1230, which is the 96.9 percentile. That would translate to a maximum possible IQ of 129. It should be noted, however, that one of the requirements for the National Merit Scholarship is taking the Preliminary SAT test. If Obama did not take the PSAT, he could very well have scored above 1230 on the SAT without being a National Merit Scholar.

• Note: To many professionals in the 'IQ' field , this is all utterly absurd. I have no idea what Barack Obama's IQ is, but nobody with even a rudimentary understanding of what IQ means and how it is determined would suggest that any of the estimations methods (school grades and positions held at college) described in the answer have any validity whatsoever.

• Affirmative Action helps minority students get into a prestigious school, not help them achieve when they get there. It's hard to believe that anyone who graduated second in his class out of the elite students could possibly have an IQ of 129 or less. Though the "Intelligence Quotient," or IQ is not the best determining factor for such an epistomological question one would need a higher IQ to understand the logic that goes along with American law. These answers are all speculation so the answer is undetermined and based on subjectivity. In order to become objective more research is necessary, especially on the basis of Harvard Law graduates. A study taking their mean IQ scores would be necessary. It couldn't even be combined with a study of the relation between SAT scores and IQ. Anyone could subjectively make up a number based on little true research and without warrant claim his IQ be 129.

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_Barack_Obama's_IQ

It basically says we have absolutely no way of knowing what his IQ is, and anyone saying anything with certainty is selling snake oil.

 

[Thump553]

Is it really so astounding? Sure Obama is no Hawking, but that's not really the accusation - and pretty much no successful politican is that intelligent. That Obama is at least significantly above average intelligence isn't really up for debate. However the phenomenon of poo throwing which you observe should not be dismissed so lightly. It is an important activity for socializing and mental development. Perhaps you should be more understanding.

Very interesting link you posted. It's now easier to see where most Faux News commentators fit on the evolutionary scale-as moderately intelligent chimps (their accuracy generally stinks but they make up for it with volume).

 

[cybrsage]

Given new info (apparently, most people with degrees are at the 115 IQ range), I am upgrading Obama to the 115-120 IQ range. Slightly above the average person, but nothing significant.

 

[HomerJS]

In an attempt to stop the derailment let's just say birthers and the people who humor them are significantly below average intelligence.

 

[cybrsage]

In an attempt to stop the derailment let's just say birthers and the people who humor them are significantly below average intelligence.

Birthers are, at least. It depends on the reason why someone is humoring them. It could be for a laugh or some such thing.

 

[blackangst1]

I think there are two issues here. Those who believe Obama is not a naturalized citizen, and those who question the birth certificate and selective service copy the white house published.

Im in the latter. There is plenty of forensic evidence the birth certificate the WH published is a forgery, or altered. Then there is the issue of his selective service registration. Obama’s Selective Service registration has a two-digit year stamp, specifying only “80″ instead of “1980,” as specified by Post Office regulations and operating practice.

*shrug*

Dont misinterprate this to mean I dont think Obama is legally qualified to be POTUS. I believe he is. but there are questions as to the documents the WH has provided.

 

[Moonbeam]

Nah, I not respond, since I have never seen him do anything or read anything by him, so I have no frame of reference.

What has Obama done that makes you think he is significantly above average intelligence?

I have a very intelligent friend who is also quite a character. I remember him going off on a rant about something or other with some other people and I told him he was quite smart in what he was suggesting. He turned around and snapped at me that I would have to be intelligent myself to know how smart he is, that I could take my comment and shove it, but then added, oh wait, you can say that.

Like calls to like, I think, and only intelligent folk can really spot their compatriots but there is probably more going on here.

I think we are back to the defective brains of conservatives again. Intelligence provides a kind of credibility. I would trust the answer to a math problem answered by nonlnear or LunarRay more than I would my own because I am of the opinion and have the suspicion their math skills are much better than mine.

So I think part of the mental defect in conservatives again involves ego. Truthiness, i am 'RIGHT' and 'I' am right all at the same time, a feeling of the gut, in other words, a bigoted opinion that can't be defended logically.

Now a person of ego is not going to want to argue a case with an intelligent person. What he does instead is tell himself that person is stupid. Now he gets to play on the same field or even feel superior.

Once the factor of ego gets attached to ones thinking, once you feel your value is not intrinsic and God given or intuit it, but dependent on what you think, you become attached to your opinions and can't allow them to be scrutinized. Being wrong equates to a loss of phony self worth, but an important self worth when it's all the self worth that you have.

Thus, the pig headedness we see in conservatives, their rejection of facts like ones provided by science, their ability to stand firm no matter how stupid they look can all be seen for what they are, a fear of loss of ego.

Unfortunately, for the rest of us, it is this fear that also makes conservatives dangerous and trying to corner them in anything can be a bad idea. And when they decide it's a good idea to jump off a cliff, things can get ugly in you get trapped in the stampede.

This is why we need to find a cure for this disease or we may go extinct.

 

[fskimospy]

In an attempt to stop the derailment let's just say birthers and the people who humor them are significantly below average intelligence.

Birthers are really the gift that keeps on giving. The best part is how they think the rest of America are the ones who are stupid, poorly informed, or blind to the facts.

 

[cybrsage]

Like calls to like, I think, and only intelligent folk can really spot their compatriots but there is probably more going on here.

I think we are back to the defective brains of conservatives again.

I did not know you call yourself a conservative.

 

[Paul98]

Have you seen how stupid the average person is? Obama is a hell of a lot smarter than the average person.

 

[SilthDraeth]

What do you base this opinion upon? Obama's inability to say more than two sentences without a bunch of uhms and uhs is worse than Bush speaking at the same level as those he wishes to communicate with?

But seriously, what do you base your opinion upon?

This is meant for the guy your are quoting and not you.

Also well documented that Bush was an excellent debater when he was younger, and suspected that his gaffs, etc, where due to age related brain functioning problems. Obama is young, and if you compare Bush's debate performance around the same age as Obama, Bush would stomp him.

Not saying I agree with either on policies, but you are taking an old man's mind feeling the affects of age, and comparing it to a younger mind. Not a good comparison.