The big QuickSync on the discrete output with Z68 and X68 misunderstanding thread

[anikk]

I'm completely and totally wrong or, except for using the special Lucid software, there will never ever be QuickSync while using a PEG GPU-Board without that software. Where does this misunderstanding stem from actually? Who exactly did create it and where exactly? In other words: If I'm not wrong very very, absolutely very, much, QuickSync is a 100% exclusive feature for the use of the Sandy Bridge-GPU!


Z68
The Sandy Bridge-GPU consists of the 6EU or 12EU graphics core and the media engine formerly known as the "display engine". As soon as you put a GPU board into the PEG slot of an H67 or Z68 motherboard, the Sandy Bridge-GPU is powered off. With it the media engine which holds the QuickSync commands and logic. That's it.

So (and anyway): The difference between P67 vs. H67 vs. Z68 is cores OC vs. graphics core OC vs. cores AS WELL AS graphics core OC, respectively. Nothing else. QuickSync is available on the H67 already, and once that SSD caching is working, it will work on the P67 as well.

Then that further, strange thing: If it's true that intel is working on "intel switchable graphics for the desktop", that is similar to nVIDIA OPTIMUS for mobile, in my personal oppinion it would result in the motherboard being able to switch between the PEG GPU-board and Sandy Bridge GPU without de-installation of the PEG GPU-Board. But it would not take away the need to re-plug the DVI-connector of you monitor. nVIDIA Optimus is created for a certain design, namely the intel chipsets. For that it's simple to design the single DVI output feat. both graphics sources. But I don't think that intel will create such a solution that works with both, nVIDIA and AMD, GPU-boards. Simply for being too complicated to do such a thing. At least in my little personal opininon. Where would this technology implemented anyway? In a second stepping of Z68? I don't think so. Where does this come from actually that intel works on such a solution? I'm not sure about that at all...


X68
No Sandy Bridge-GPU = no "Media Engine" = no QuickSync at all. It's even more easy.


Expert comments are very welcome.

Especially if I'm wrong very very, absolutely very, much.


EDIT: Post greyed out by author. I made the statement under the false knowledge that installing a discrete GPU-board ultimately disables the Sandy Bridge-GPU completely on an H67 PCH motherboard. "Completely" means the graphics core as well as the "Media Engine". In reality the H67 PCH offers the possibility to run the Sandy Bridge-GPU and a discrete GPU-board at once. So it seems to me now that the correct difference between the P67, the H67 and the Z68 will be that with the Z68 you will be able to have QuickSync as well as be able to overclock the cores and not only the graphics core.

 

[Idontcare]

Welcome to the forums anikk

I can't answer your questions, maybe others here can.

 

[Nemesis 1]

Well IDC give it your best shot , As I follow topics here , This has all been covered . But the Z m/b will work with discret according to the info we have read in these forums is that not so? So as far as we know QS works with discrete cards installed .

 

[Seero]

QuickSync is exclusive to SB CPU and its GPU cores. It won't work on neither Nvidia or AMD GPUs. Anandtech had an articles about transcoding between Nvidia GTX460 vs Intel's QuickSync.

By PEG, i believe you meant PCI-E Gen 2 slot, or simply PCIE 2.0, and it is the norm for video cards nowadays. Both AMD and Nvidia have their way to do transcoding with their GPUs. Due to the architectural differences between vendors, software used to support these are not flexible, and QuickSync is one of these programs, and there are different programs for others. Google "CUDA Transcode" and "Stream Transcode" to find softwares for Nvidia or AMD respectively.

H67: SB with GPU cores enabled. Limited CPU OC.

P67: SB with GPU cores disabled. Support CPU OC.

Z68: SB with GPU cores enabled. Support CPU OC. Allow SSD to serve as a cache to HDD.

All the above have 16 PCIe lanes. 1155 socket. That means 16 lanes for a single discrete video card, 8 lanes each for 2 video cards, and 8x/4x/4x for 3 video cards. Since 4x isn't enough for one video card, boards with NF200 chipset(multiplexer) is preferred for > 2 video cards.

X68: SB without GPU cores. 2011 scoket. 32 PCIe lanes. Support native 16x/16x, 16x/8x/8x, and 8x/8x/8x/8x configuration. Ideal for servers with multiple raid controller cards, or those who runs multiple video cards.

Intel switchable graphics is a gimmick terms used by Intel to counter Nvidia's Optimus. To implement this dynamic switching effectively, discrete video card must power down when not used, and power on before it is used to make it seamless when the laptop is unplugged. When it is plugged, the integrated video is disabled. It isn't a surprise that other than Nvidia, others don't like to support Optimus. It is also not a surprise than other than Nvidia, others are trying to implement their own way of switchable graphics. Not surprising, none of them like to work together. That means, the chance of seeing switchable graphics on desktop is pretty low. Having said that, all discrete recent video cards downclock itself to save electricity when it isn't running in 3D mode (not the type where you need a glasses).

 

[Nemesis 1]

^ You wrote this .

That means, the chance of seeing switchable graphics on desktop is pretty low. Having said that, all discrete recent video cards downclock itself to save electricity when it isn't running in 3D mode (not the type where you need a glasses). What would you care to wager on that statement Z will have discrete Gpu and switch to igp when the apps call for it .

 

[fuzzymath10]

Does anybody know if quicksync is available on H67 boards if both the IGP and a discrete card are present and enabled.

On my SB system, I have a dual display set up with one monitor running the IGP and one monitor on an AMD Radeon. I don't have any quicksync-compatible programs though to test.

 

[Seero]

^ You wrote this .

That means, the chance of seeing switchable graphics on desktop is pretty low. Having said that, all discrete recent video cards downclock itself to save electricity when it isn't running in 3D mode (not the type where you need a glasses). What would you care to wager on that statement Z will have discrete Gpu and switch to igp when the apps call for it .

I don't understand your question. Can you please re-phase it?

 

[Seero]

Does anybody know if quicksync is available on H67 boards if both the IGP and a discrete card are present and enabled.

On my SB system, I have a dual display set up with one monitor running the IGP and one monitor on an AMD Radeon. I don't have any quicksync-compatible programs though to test.

Yes, but not without a new set of limitations.
http://www.pcper.com/article.php?aid=1086&type=expert

 

[beginner99]

Yes, but not without a new set of limitations.
http://www.pcper.com/article.php?aid=1086&type=expert

I think he meant with out the use of the lucid virtu software.
But as the article says even that has some limitations. I have read on these forums that it should work if you attach a monitor to intel gpu, but can't confirm it.


@fuzzymath10

can't you just download a trial version and inform us if it works?

 

[fuzzymath10]

I think he meant with out the use of the

@fuzzymath10

can't you just download a trial version and inform us if it works?

There aren't a lot of applications out there but I just tried media espresso. It actually works!

With acceleration, CPU usage is <50&#37; and for a 20min 175MB tv episode to my blackberry took just over a minute. With CPU only, it was more like 90+ seconds, with CPU at >75%.

For a high quality conversion for a 2.5 hour 720P movie down to 360p, acceleration resulted in estimated time of 22mins with 50% CPU usage. CPU only, was pegged at 100%, and needed about 26 minutes.

So raw speed isn't a huge gain (about 20%), but much lower CPU usage.

Not that I'd want to try, but I don't think I can choose my Radeon to convert; it seems to only pick up the IGP.

Overall I don't know if I should be impressed more by quicksync, or how much faster even the CPU-only conversion feels compared to my Q8200.

 

[anikk]

Does anybody know if quicksync is available on H67 boards if both the IGP and a discrete card are present and enabled.

On my SB system, I have a dual display set up with one monitor running the IGP and one monitor on an AMD Radeon. I don't have any quicksync-compatible programs though to test.

How do you do that? When a discrete GPU-board is installed, the DVI out on the motherboard is dead, since Sandy Bridge GPU is off. Do you really have one DVI connector on the GPU-board's DVI out and the other one on the motherboard's DVI out? And both monitors work?

On a H67 motherboard QuickSync does definitely not work as long as the discrete GPU-board is inside the PCI Express Graphics slot. As soon as you remove the discrete GPU-board QuickSync will definitely work. Nothing about this will change with the Z68 PCH. It will be just that same way. It's a misunderstanding. You will still need the Lucid software with the Z68 as well. The question to make or not to make a decision towards the Lucent solution is another question which I'm not sure about since I don't know anything pro/contra that software.

EDIT: Post greyed out by author. See original post for the reason.

 

[anikk]

...by the way: the anandtech-article mentioned by member Seero in this thread says that QuickSync can be used with one monitor on a discrete board and another one on the IGP's DVI out. I don't understand this either. What does a monitor connected to somewhere do to QuickSync working or not working? Or in other words: since when is the IGP being enabled or being disabled dependend on a monitor being plugged in or not? The IGP is disabled and enabled by the detection or absence of a discrete GPU-board, respectively. Is it not??

EDIT: Post greyed out by author. See original post for the reason.

 

[IntelUser2000]

Yes, but not without a new set of limitations.
http://www.pcper.com/article.php?aid=1086&type=expert

That's not true: http://translate.google.ca/translate?hl=en&sl=ja&u=http://pc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/column/hot/20110103_417997.html&ei=YlhsTYGIHIuasAOBqazKAw&sa=X&oi=translate&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CCcQ7gEwAA&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dhttp://pc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/column/hot/20110103_417997.html%26hl%3Den%26biw%3D1280%26bih%3D831%26prmd%3Divns


So far Intel integrated graphics, and use an external graphics card, which had been automatically disabled, Sandy Bridge is no such restriction does. Quick Sync Video even in this multi-graphics configurations were available if the primary is set to integrated graphics.

Not the best translation but it says you can use it as long as you set the integrated graphics as "always primary".

X68
No Sandy Bridge-GPU = no "Media Engine" = no QuickSync at all. It's even more easy.

This is also not final. One report said Intel was debating on whether to add the QS engine to their Sandy Bridge E chips as well.

 

[IntelUser2000]

Read the article about Lucid's Virtu. All I can say is wow.

 

[anikk]

Ok, I have to edit all my posts above.

I will do that immediately after having finished this post. The reason is that I made the statement under the false knowledge that installing a discrete GPU-board ultimately disables the Sandy Bridge-GPU completely on an H67 PCH motherboard. "Completely" means the graphics core as well as the "Media Engine". In reality the H67 PCH offers the possibility to run the Sandy Bridge-GPU and a discrete GPU-board at once. So it seems to me now that the correct difference between the P67, the H67 and the Z68 will be that only with the Z68 you will be able to have QuickSync as well as be able to overclock the cores.


But then I indeed have a MASSIVE question now!

If someone buys an ASUS P8H67-V motherboard, installs a discrete GPU, sets the BIOS entry called "IGD Multi-Monitor" to "Enabled", DOES connect a monitor to the discrete GPU-board's video output and DOES NOT connect a second monitor to the motherboard's video output, would QuickSync work?

My personal guess is it still would. I say this because I can't imagine that when "IGD Multi-Monitor" is set to "Enabled" connecting/disconnecting the second monitor to the motherboard's video output still can enable/disable QuickSync.

Isn't the anandtech article wrong on this as well? Why is it not possible to do the multi-monitor setup as suggested in the article, but simply not buy and connect the second monitor to the motherboard's video out. If QuickSync works that way, why is that second monitor necessary. I don't get that. It's almost like QuickSync works if I look at one of the monitors but does not work if I look at the other. Why does the article not simply say that Quick Sync does work with H67 PCH motherboards as long as the multi-monitor entry is enabled in BIOS. No matter how many monitors are connected and to which output. I don't get it at all

Does QuickSync being enabled/disabled not have much more to do with Sandy Bridge-GPU being primary or secondary GPU?? But if so, where do you set that?

 

[fuzzymath10]

Quicksync is disabled the moment I unplug my monitor hooked up to the IGP. However, it has always been my secondary display, and quicksync worked fine with my Radeon as primary.

Basically, extended desktop must be enabled across the IGP and discrete card for quicksync to function, but it does not matter which is primary.

 

[Seero]

This will get really complicated to explain. In abstract, connecting your discrete video card to monitor alone = no quicksync. Connecting your monitor to IGD alone = no discrete video card. Lucid's Virtu fixes that by intecepting Dx calls to IGD and redirect it to the discrete card, and redirect its result back to the IGD. In other words, the discrete video card is being used as a GPGPU, not a video card. The SB GPU core is disabled when it is not plugged into a display. That means, connecting both to a monitor will allow both. A mobo bios update can change this, but it doesn't make a lot of sense to turn on SB GPU cores when it isn't use most of the time. If you have 2 monitors and plug one into one output port from each video card, then QuickSync will be enabled. (Note that I didn't try this myself, but there are articles about this.)
http://techreport.com/discussions.x/20217

That's great, but QuickSync video is available only when the processor's IGP is active and in use. Generally, that means the CPU must be installed in a motherboard based on the H67 chipset, since the enthusiast-oriented P67 chipset doesn't support a display output for the IGP. On that H67 board, your graphics options are limited, too, if you want to use QuickSync. The IGP must be connected to a monitor; using a discrete graphics card alone will disable the IGP.

 

[anikk]

Many thanks for the very helpful explanation Seero. It's a huge amount of help! fuzzymath10's empiric facts helped a lot too! I'm still learning the facts from these detailed explanations. It's really something that have to be learned, it's that complex. It's not enough to read it. I will post back as soon as I have things sorted. A first question that comes to my mind already however is: Given these facts, will Z68 change anything at all about the way it is now? Is it really the case that with the Z68 there will be QuickSync with a monitor connected to the discrete GPU-board while IGD completely left turned off and unconnected with a monitor?

 

[sticks435]

Is it really the case that with the Z68 there will be QuickSync with a monitor connected to the discrete GPU-board while IGD completely left turned off and unconnected with a monitor?

Nobody knows yet. In order for that to happen, desktop graphics switching would need to exist and I think currently it doesn't. In the interview Anand had with the Intel guy, he said maybe on Z68, but he was more a marketing guy then tech, so take that with a grain of salt.

 

[anikk]

Many many thanks sticks435 for telling about the conversation which personally I never have heard about. So, so far it's like this:

Z68 - discrete GPU-board installed
monitor on discrete GPU-board, no monitor on Sandy Bridge-GPU: no QuickSync
no monitor on discrete GPU-board, monitor on Sandy Bridge-GPU: QuickSync
monitor on discrete GPU-board, monitor on Sandy Bridge-GPU: QuickSync

Z68 - no discrete GPU-board installed
monitor on Sandy Bridge-GPU: QuickSync

P67
monitor on discrete GPU-board: no QuickSync

H67 - discrete GPU-board installed
monitor on discrete GPU-board, no monitor on Sandy Bridge-GPU: no QuickSync
no monitor on discrete GPU-board, monitor on Sandy Bridge-GPU: QuickSync
monitor on discrete GPU-board, monitor on Sandy Bridge-GPU: QuickSync

H67 - no discrete GPU-board installed
monitor on Sandy Bridge-GPU: QuickSync

 

[IntelUser2000]

H67 - discrete GPU-board installed
monitor on discrete GPU-board, no monitor on Sandy Bridge-GPU: no QuickSync
no monitor on discrete GPU-board, monitor on Sandy Bridge-GPU: QuickSync
monitor on discrete GPU-board, monitor on Sandy Bridge-GPU: QuickSync

So in the meantime you can make a manual switch to go from HD Graphics to the discrete graphics. The two monitor ports will physically always be connected, but the switch will allow only one to be electrically connected to the monitor.

Manual Switchable graphics.

 

[PreferLinux]

What is meant is one monitor on each.

But with regards to switching between them manually, just use a manual KVM switch, with only the monitor connected.

 

[beginner99]

Most monitors have at least 1 hdmi and 1 dvi port. what if I connect as example dvi to intel igp and hdmi to discrete gpu?

Will QuickSync be enabled if I change the input port to dvi on my monitor? (eg. no need for a switch?)

fuzzymath10 results with QS seem much less cool than in the review. I mean couple of minutes faster and at 50 % cpu load you won't be gaming.

 

[anikk]

Most monitors have at least 1 hdmi and 1 dvi port. what if I connect as example dvi to intel igp and hdmi to discrete gpu?

Will QuickSync be enabled if I change the input port to dvi on my monitor? (eg. no need for a switch?)

EDIT: No, won't work. Due to same, single adress given to that one monitor.

 

[anikk]

May I ask a different question however: what is the reason that ASUS made that "non-V" P8H67 motherboard. It has H67 chipset but unlike the P8H67-V no video output on the back panel. How does it functionally differ from P8P67 then?