The Beast, new movie slated for 2006

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judasmachine

Diamond Member
Sep 15, 2002
8,515
3
81
Religion is just a tool to justify an agenda.

It doesn't matter if Christ existed or not, chock up another Buddha, or any other man who tried to teach us to be nicer to each other. Christ isn't the enemy, it's his rabid crusading followers.
 

conjur

No Lifer
Jun 7, 2001
58,686
3
0
Originally posted by: judasmachine
Religion is just a tool to justify an agenda.

It doesn't matter if Christ existed or not, chock up another Buddha, or any other man who tried to teach us to be nicer to each other. Christ isn't the enemy, it's his rabid crusading followers.

:beer::(
 

jackschmittusa

Diamond Member
Apr 16, 2003
5,972
1
0
CycloWizard

Prior to the Council of Nicea in 325, Christianity was a mish-mash of small cults in various cities. When Constantine converted, he offered to pay for 50 copies of whatever book explained Christianity (a great expense, I might add), only to find that no such book existed. So he paid for a representitive to come from each of these cults, put them up with five star food and accomodations (again, at great expense), and told them to put together a book. They argued for years over what the book should contain. Had they gathered on their own, they might never have reached a consensus, and there would be no "Christianity" today. But they finally realized that they were in danger of angering Constintine by by not following his order to give him a book and the possible perception that they were only delaying to continue living such a luxurious life at his expense. So, they finally cobbled together a book.

Prior to all of this, anybody was pretty much free to tell whatever story of Jesus they wanted, and free to offer their interpretations (and there were many). Shortly after the bible was adopted, the Church began its policy of stamping out any who disagreed with either the writings, or the "official" interpretation of them. Priests were a particular target, and killed in large numbers for false teaching. The Eastern Church managed to survive and split off from the Roman branch because of a disagreement over essentially one item. Most others with differnt views were wiped out. Even in the Middle ages, the Church was hunting down and killing groups who claimed to have the "true knowledge" of Christ. The Church has a long and bloody history of stamping out dissent.

Now that the Church can no longer get away with killing anybody it pleases, people are free to collect and present evidence that has been suppresed. Technology has only recently allowed people to collect evidence from virtually anywhere, present interpretations to peers for review in far away places, cheaply and quickly acquire copies of past works to build on, etc.. It may be easier to decipher the the truth of the past today than it was at a time far closer to the events.
 

kage69

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
28,682
40,034
136
Are you hard headed? Or are you denying reality? Just look at the Islamic threads in which the author discusses growing radical Islam. Great name calling. Great man.

You're the only one denying reality here bub. You love to talk in generalizations and announce your veiwpoint as fact, yet nothing from you in the way of proof. You get called on it, and all you do is deny it and try to divert. Pathetic.

Again, I was defending a great religion that is being tarnished by the anti-religious folk here. And they especially target christianty. I will defend chrisitianty and other religions of the world as long as I'm allowed here. That does not make me religious. Can't you understand that?

No, the "great religion" as you put it has been tarnished by all the hypocrits who claim to adhere to it. Like so many Bush fanboys, you seem to have no concept of cause and effect. Sad, but at least it's predictable. I think you need to concentrate on your own skills of comprehension, because there is definetly a problem if you're still whining about me calling you religious when I already clarified that I was refering to Bush. Save your freedom fighting decrees for someone who gives a damn.

Iraq and Afghanistan were both threats to America and our national interests. Iraq is debatable somewhat while Afghanistan should have been bombarded the day right after 9/11. Heh, its down to 10,000 lives eh? Well tell that to you're fellow lefties who claim Bush murdered 200,00 in Iraq.

I'm not a "leftie," and have little interest in your strawman.

Again, where is my double standard? (Oh and lovely name calling, I guess when you can't present facts, thats all you can do)

I don't suffer fools lightly, and you sir, are acting like a fool. I find it odd that you can proclaim chrisitianity's merit by noting how it helped Bush (by all his supporters accounts, a "good christian") give up the sauce and get to bed early; why don't you have a problem with his policies and decisions that directly go against the core tenants of that which he is supposed to cherish? Perhaps 'double-standard' was the wrong phrase to use, but it seems quite hypocritical. I think it's because people like you don't want to realize that you and your religion have been used. Hell, I'm more of a christian than Bush.

Ah, the tolerant, open-minded left.

Ahh, more ASSumptions from you.

Oh and about you're sig, I stand by that statement. Give me some hard evidence that Fox News is biased.

Well then you enjoy your 'condition,' - just don't get mad when no one will take you seriously. Hard evidence? Sure! Watch OutFoxed, it's loaded with commentary and clips taken directly from FOX and I think even a zealot like you would be hard pressed to deny the blantant bias that the movie depicts.
 

Tab

Lifer
Sep 15, 2002
12,145
0
71
Originally posted by: kage69
Well then you enjoy your 'condition,' - just don't get mad when no one will take you seriously. Hard evidence? Sure! Watch OutFoxed, it's loaded with commentary and clips taken directly from FOX and I think even a zealot like you would be hard pressed to deny the blantant bias that the movie depicts.

What's Out Foxed... exactly... hmm
 

kage69

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
28,682
40,034
136
What's Out Foxed... exactly... hmm


OutFoxed (conjur's link from another thread).

I found some of the methods they used to display facts were a little lame or hokey, but overrall the info provided was insightful and a sobering look into the darker aspects of MSM. Scary/depressing stuff. The interviews with former FOX employees was particulary interesting I thought. The section on Bill O'Reilly was pretty amusing too. Should be required viewing material for those who debate the media and politics IMHO.
 

magomago

Lifer
Sep 28, 2002
10,973
14
76
Originally posted by: raildogg
And you tell me and others that we are bigots and intolerant when we even mention anything on Islam? Damn hypocrits.

You people need to realize that you sound extremely hypocritical when you bash christianity ALL the time. Yet you label people who point out radical Islam and its threat as racists and bigots. Either be fair admit that you have double standards.

What does Islam have to do with this discussion? Don't try to bring the focus off of where it is. I understand what you are saying, but you have to realize that in the USA Islam has VERY little influence in our domestic policy. Though I must admit a lot of things, such as outlawing abortion and whatnot line up in accordance with Islam.

Oh, and just a side note if this was even true, then it would also mean that Islam is an entirely fake religion because Jesus plays a significant role in Islam. So if JEsus was proved to never exist (something I obviously don't beleive in) you would invalidate the beleifs of 1/2 this world
 

slash196

Golden Member
Nov 1, 2004
1,549
0
76
Hmm...the teaser really whetted my appetite for more, which is what it was designed to do. I like the dissonance they create in you mind, by presenting visuals that we associate in our heads as clean and holy (the color white, a painting of Jesus) with text that seems to contradict everything. I'll certainly keep my eye on this one.
 

Velk

Senior member
Jul 29, 2004
734
0
0
Originally posted by: jackschmittusa
Velk

Which laws pased purely on Christian beliefs were you thinking of ?

The blue laws are but one example. How about laws pertaining to sodomy, nudity, pornography, abortion, suicide. Past examples are Prohibition, transporting across state lines for immoral purposes.

How about the current government position on embryonic stem cell reasearch?

You'd have an extremely hard time backing up the assertion that 'decency' or 'ethics' laws are based purely on christian beliefs.

For example - China's laws on pornography and decency are far more restrictive than the those of the US, but they have an essentially atheist government, where christians are heavily discriminated against.

It's also a very weak position to argue on abortion and stem cell research - are you really suggesting that there are no atheists that oppose abortion for reasons completely unrelated to christian beliefs ? Islam is universally in favor of abortion right ? Judaisim ? Hindus ?

Now if there is actually a law such as 'It's illegal to eat meat on fridays during Lent' then you'd have a point, but I don't know of any laws that actually *are* solely based on christian beliefs.
 

CycloWizard

Lifer
Sep 10, 2001
12,348
1
81
Originally posted by: jackschmittusa
Velk

Which laws pased purely on Christian beliefs were you thinking of ?

The blue laws are but one example. How about laws pertaining to sodomy, nudity, pornography, abortion, suicide. Past examples are Prohibition, transporting across state lines for immoral purposes.

How about the current government position on embryonic stem cell reasearch?
All of these have sound logical explanations. The question is whether or not the government can force ethics on people. The answer is clearly yes, else we would have no recourse for laws of any sort. Then, the question becomes to what extent does the government have this power? This is the balance that must be struck.
Originally posted by: jackschmittusa
CycloWizard
Well, I'm glad you were there to give such an authoritative, fact-only description of the times. Constantine made the Roman Empire Christian before the Council of Nicea (by about 13 years IIRC). I also seem to recall that many books were floating around and that the Council selected the ones to be included in the Bible.

In the end, your attempt to dissuade Christians is pretty ridiculous. You think you can wave your hands and dismiss 2000 years of belief? Good luck. Not everyone believes as I do, but my beliefs do not require them to. You can try to justify your cynicism however you like, just as I can believe however I like. In the end, it comes down to how you interpret what you see, feel, and so on. I have seen more than my share of things that science cannot explain - in fact, they directly contradict well known scientific principles. I see the way nature works and realize that it's not random chance that things ended up the way they are. You can say that it is and I'm not going to try to argue with you, since you have already made up your mind. I don't understand why you have to try to belittle my beliefs if you're so sure I'm wrong in the first place. I don't see the need to belittle your lack of belief, and it would be great if I could get the same courtesy.
 
Feb 3, 2001
5,156
0
0
Originally posted by: Dari
Originally posted by: DragonMasterAlex
Originally posted by: Dari
While I've provided many links here to prove that Christ never existed, telling everyone is not a good thing. Then again, perhaps the title and opening date will bring people into the theater with their mind already made up that it is Satan that is behind this. Perhaps not. Either way, messing with the very fabric that makes civilization what it is, and not understanding its consequences, is a very dangerous thing. Telling the world that Christ never existed may have profound effects, at the very least on the makers of this movie.

Not everyone can handle the truth.

Also, you can't PROVE that something doesn't exist or never existed, the very notion is a contradiction. You can show that little or no evidence exists to support the claim of his existence, but you can't prove something never was.

Jason


I've already proven that Christ never existed, at least not the mythical Christ.

You haven't proven sh1t. I don't believe in the mythical Christ any more than you do, but to claim you can "Prove" he didn't exist is a contradiction and a lie. It's people like you who make Atheists look bad with this kind of piss-poor reasoning.

There can be NO SUCH THING as EVIDENCE for something that ISN'T. The damning information is the LACK of evidence in SUPPORT of the idea of the Mythical Christ. There is a HUGE difference there, and in these kinds of discussions it is important to be as precise as possible.

Jason
 
Feb 3, 2001
5,156
0
0
Originally posted by: dornick
I agree that the supernatural stuff is much more dificult to validate than simple existence. My point was just that those who simply write of Jesus's existence as myth are just pricks.

BTW, my faith in Christianity is not based in the existence of Jesus, but in the coherency of the religion as a whole.

By amazing irony, my *rejection* of Christianity is based on the coherency of the religion as a whole :) I think Jesus had a LOT right and we should pay attention to his lessons, but I also think that the God of the Bible is an EVIL, evil character, and I wouldn't worship him or submit to him even if it meant the loss of my existence.

Jason
 

Dari

Lifer
Oct 25, 2002
17,133
38
91
Originally posted by: DragonMasterAlex
Originally posted by: Dari
Originally posted by: DragonMasterAlex
Originally posted by: Dari
While I've provided many links here to prove that Christ never existed, telling everyone is not a good thing. Then again, perhaps the title and opening date will bring people into the theater with their mind already made up that it is Satan that is behind this. Perhaps not. Either way, messing with the very fabric that makes civilization what it is, and not understanding its consequences, is a very dangerous thing. Telling the world that Christ never existed may have profound effects, at the very least on the makers of this movie.

Not everyone can handle the truth.

Also, you can't PROVE that something doesn't exist or never existed, the very notion is a contradiction. You can show that little or no evidence exists to support the claim of his existence, but you can't prove something never was.

Jason


I've already proven that Christ never existed, at least not the mythical Christ.

You haven't proven sh1t. I don't believe in the mythical Christ any more than you do, but to claim you can "Prove" he didn't exist is a contradiction and a lie. It's people like you who make Atheists look bad with this kind of piss-poor reasoning.

There can be NO SUCH THING as EVIDENCE for something that ISN'T. The damning information is the LACK of evidence in SUPPORT of the idea of the Mythical Christ. There is a HUGE difference there, and in these kinds of discussions it is important to be as precise as possible.

Jason

First off, I'm no atheist, idiot. Second off, you're right. I didn't prove anything, others did. And I won't provide you any link, you have to find them yourself. I'll give you some names. John Jackson, egyptologist, Gerald Massey, egyptologist, and Godfrey Higgins, historian.

While I'm not interested in your logical theories and corollaries, I will say that you can prove that the historical Christ and mythical Christ were not one and the same, which is how Christians get their Christ (by saying that the Mythical existed at one time). And you're wrong, there is a lot of support for the idea of the mythical Christ.

You know what, do a search for "Christ" in this forum and you can see my previous discussion on this topic. Don't say I never helped you out.
 

jackschmittusa

Diamond Member
Apr 16, 2003
5,972
1
0
CycloWizard

I was replying to your earlier comment:

The people who did write about him were killed for it, yet they did it anyway. That would lead me to believe they had some good reason for doing so. When did Christianity kill people for speaking against it? Not any time close to 0 AD. They would have had no vehicle to do so until the 300's when Constantine converted the Roman Empire from paganism to Christianity after the 'miracle' that he experienced converting him.

My historical comments were meant to show there was no "Church" as we think of it today until the Bible was codified. After that, they had significant power and wielded it.

The Christians killed prior to that were not killed for their interpretations of Jesus. Many felt that their god was about to crush the Romans, and the Romans didn't permit such talk. Nero made Christians scapegoats by painting them as some sort of vermin that that pisssed off the Roman gods and thereby brought misfortune to the Romans. Tossing them to the lions was a prudent defense.

Well, I'm glad you were there to give such an authoritative, fact-only description of the times. Constantine made the Roman Empire Christian before the Council of Nicea (by about 13 years IIRC). I also seem to recall that many books were floating around and that the Council selected the ones to be included in the Bible.

You're joking, right? I had to have been there to present historical context? If I ever mention that Columbus sailed with 3 ships in 1492 accross the Atlantic, would you disparage my comments because I wasn't there?

And yes, Constantine decided that Christianity was the way to go first. So, when he then asked what was the definitive reference to what Christianity was, nobody could agree on an answer. The council was finally formed to provide that answer.

In the end, your attempt to dissuade Christians is pretty ridiculous. You think you can wave your hands and dismiss 2000 years of belief? Good luck. Not everyone believes as I do, but my beliefs do not require them to. You can try to justify your cynicism however you like, just as I can believe however I like. In the end, it comes down to how you interpret what you see, feel, and so on. I have seen more than my share of things that science cannot explain - in fact, they directly contradict well known scientific principles. I see the way nature works and realize that it's not random chance that things ended up the way they are. You can say that it is and I'm not going to try to argue with you, since you have already made up your mind. I don't understand why you have to try to belittle my beliefs if you're so sure I'm wrong in the first place. I don't see the need to belittle your lack of belief, and it would be great if I could get the same courtesy.

How did you take from my posts that I am trying to dissuade anyone from their beliefs? What did I ask anyone to dismiss? The only reference to beliefs in my posts were my own. I had actually thought we were discussing history. I fail to see how I belittled your beliefs. I made no comment stating your beliefs are wrong. I used neither nouns nor adjectives that connote ridicule. I used no scornful labels. I assure you, had I intended to be provocative, I would have used far more powerful comments. Perhaps you could offer suggestions on how I might sanatize future posts to comform to your sensitivity.
 
Feb 3, 2001
5,156
0
0
Originally posted by: Dari
Originally posted by: DragonMasterAlex
Originally posted by: Dari
Originally posted by: DragonMasterAlex
Originally posted by: Dari
While I've provided many links here to prove that Christ never existed, telling everyone is not a good thing. Then again, perhaps the title and opening date will bring people into the theater with their mind already made up that it is Satan that is behind this. Perhaps not. Either way, messing with the very fabric that makes civilization what it is, and not understanding its consequences, is a very dangerous thing. Telling the world that Christ never existed may have profound effects, at the very least on the makers of this movie.

Not everyone can handle the truth.

Also, you can't PROVE that something doesn't exist or never existed, the very notion is a contradiction. You can show that little or no evidence exists to support the claim of his existence, but you can't prove something never was.

Jason


I've already proven that Christ never existed, at least not the mythical Christ.

You haven't proven sh1t. I don't believe in the mythical Christ any more than you do, but to claim you can "Prove" he didn't exist is a contradiction and a lie. It's people like you who make Atheists look bad with this kind of piss-poor reasoning.

There can be NO SUCH THING as EVIDENCE for something that ISN'T. The damning information is the LACK of evidence in SUPPORT of the idea of the Mythical Christ. There is a HUGE difference there, and in these kinds of discussions it is important to be as precise as possible.

Jason

First off, I'm no atheist, idiot. Second off, you're right. I didn't prove anything, others did. And I won't provide you any link, you have to find them yourself. I'll give you some names. John Jackson, egyptologist, Gerald Massey, egyptologist, and Godfrey Higgins, historian.

While I'm not interested in your logical theories and corollaries, I will say that you can prove that the historical Christ and mythical Christ were not one and the same, which is how Christians get their Christ (by saying that the Mythical existed at one time). And you're wrong, there is a lot of support for the idea of the mythical Christ.

You know what, do a search for "Christ" in this forum and you can see my previous discussion on this topic. Don't say I never helped you out.

Again, and I'll put this SIMPLY so you can understand: You CAN'T prove a negative, it's a logical CONTRADICTION. We're not talking about multiple Jesus' here, we're talking about ONE man, whom some people believe to have been the son of God. While there is certainly NO evidence to support this idea, and the tales of these "Miracles" are nonsensical at best, the fact remains: One can't PROVE that it was all horse-puckey. One can DEDUCE that it was all a pile of crap for many reasons: Men don't rise from the dead, blindness isn't restores by a simple touch, small baskets of bread and fish can't feed thousands, virgins don't get pregnant, etc.

The strength of the argument against Son-of-God Jesus is ENTIRELY in the fact that his alleged "Miracles" are simply impossible scenarios.

In any case, I see no reason to believe Jesus wasn't a real *person*, but plenty of reasons to reject the mystical elements of his story. That's OK, though; there's enough solid meat to his teachings to stand on its own WITHOUT the mysticism.

Jason
 

jackschmittusa

Diamond Member
Apr 16, 2003
5,972
1
0
Velk

TextYou'd have an extremely hard time backing up the assertion that 'decency' or 'ethics' laws are based purely on christian beliefs.

For example - China's laws on pornography and decency are far more restrictive than the those of the US, but they have an essentially atheist government, where christians are heavily discriminated against.

It's also a very weak position to argue on abortion and stem cell research - are you really suggesting that there are no atheists that oppose abortion for reasons completely unrelated to christian beliefs ? Islam is universally in favor of abortion right ? Judaisim ? Hindus ?

China has a problem with population control, and doesn't want people getting aroused by pornography. And by describing it as a product of the "decadent West", they get a bonus by suggesting that they are better people.

A straight up guess (based on what I've seen), but I imagine 95% of the people opposed to abortion and embryonic stem cell research in this country base their opposition on religious beliefs and insist there is no comprimise. Sound reasoning and scientific evidence are apparently not worthy of consideration.

The "blue laws" I mentioned were a completely undisguised effort by Christian groups to close everything down on Sunday morning so there was nothing to do but go to church. Who do you think you would hear from if the NFL decided to play and broadcast games in the Continental U.S. at 9AM on Sunday mornings?

And decency laws? When was the last time you heard of a group of athiests picketing an adult bookstore? Demanding zoning laws that will close them down? Here in Ohio, I've seen Christian groups demanding that city and county ordinances be passed banning nude juice bars. And many times politicians knuckle under and pass such laws, often with such haste that the laws get thrown out when challanged. Many State sodomy laws were so broad as to include fellatio and cunnilingus as crimes. Some of these laws have already been thrown out because the State could not show any compelling interest in preventing it. The same people fighting to keep the laws are the ones who insisted on the laws to begin with. Any idea who they might be?

I'm all for laws that benefit the people and preserve our rights and freedoms. The only people I ever see demanding laws that infringe on those ideals are those out to make a buck, and those who would impose their religious morality on everyone.
 

Velk

Senior member
Jul 29, 2004
734
0
0
Originally posted by: DragonMasterAlex
Originally posted by: Dari
Originally posted by: DragonMasterAlex
Originally posted by: Dari
Originally posted by: DragonMasterAlex
Originally posted by: Dari
While I've provided many links here to prove that Christ never existed, telling everyone is not a good thing. Then again, perhaps the title and opening date will bring people into the theater with their mind already made up that it is Satan that is behind this. Perhaps not. Either way, messing with the very fabric that makes civilization what it is, and not understanding its consequences, is a very dangerous thing. Telling the world that Christ never existed may have profound effects, at the very least on the makers of this movie.

Not everyone can handle the truth.

Also, you can't PROVE that something doesn't exist or never existed, the very notion is a contradiction. You can show that little or no evidence exists to support the claim of his existence, but you can't prove something never was.

Jason


I've already proven that Christ never existed, at least not the mythical Christ.

You haven't proven sh1t. I don't believe in the mythical Christ any more than you do, but to claim you can "Prove" he didn't exist is a contradiction and a lie. It's people like you who make Atheists look bad with this kind of piss-poor reasoning.

There can be NO SUCH THING as EVIDENCE for something that ISN'T. The damning information is the LACK of evidence in SUPPORT of the idea of the Mythical Christ. There is a HUGE difference there, and in these kinds of discussions it is important to be as precise as possible.

Jason

First off, I'm no atheist, idiot. Second off, you're right. I didn't prove anything, others did. And I won't provide you any link, you have to find them yourself. I'll give you some names. John Jackson, egyptologist, Gerald Massey, egyptologist, and Godfrey Higgins, historian.

While I'm not interested in your logical theories and corollaries, I will say that you can prove that the historical Christ and mythical Christ were not one and the same, which is how Christians get their Christ (by saying that the Mythical existed at one time). And you're wrong, there is a lot of support for the idea of the mythical Christ.

You know what, do a search for "Christ" in this forum and you can see my previous discussion on this topic. Don't say I never helped you out.

Again, and I'll put this SIMPLY so you can understand: You CAN'T prove a negative, it's a logical CONTRADICTION.

I think you are confused. There is no contradiction in proving a negative, logical or otherwise. If I were to claim that a book is not actually hollowed out and packed with explosives, it's pretty easy to prove that is true by opening it.

Likewise if I were to claim that Jack the Ripper didn't actually guest star in an episode of Seinfeld, that's also quite easy to prove true.

What you are probably thinking about is the precept that you can't prove a general negative by example - e.g. producing a book that isn't stuffed with explosives doesn't mean that no book anywhere is stuffed with explosives.
 

Tab

Lifer
Sep 15, 2002
12,145
0
71
Forgive my high school education and my lack of intelligence, why can't we prove a negative? Why is it a contradiction? Can you give me an example?
 

dornick

Senior member
Jan 30, 2005
751
0
0
Originally posted by: DragonMasterAlex
Originally posted by: dornick
I agree that the supernatural stuff is much more dificult to validate than simple existence. My point was just that those who simply write of Jesus's existence as myth are just pricks.

BTW, my faith in Christianity is not based in the existence of Jesus, but in the coherency of the religion as a whole.

By amazing irony, my *rejection* of Christianity is based on the coherency of the religion as a whole :) I think Jesus had a LOT right and we should pay attention to his lessons, but I also think that the God of the Bible is an EVIL, evil character, and I wouldn't worship him or submit to him even if it meant the loss of my existence.

Jason


In my experience, any time I hear someone claiming how "horrible" Christianity is, it's because they don't actually understand it. I think people need to focus less on trying to convert people and more on making sure the other guy is seeing things correctly. After all, nobody can force anyone to be Christian; he best we can do is make sure everyone has the correct picture and let them choose where to go from there.
 

Dari

Lifer
Oct 25, 2002
17,133
38
91
Originally posted by: DragonMasterAlex
Originally posted by: Dari
Originally posted by: DragonMasterAlex
Originally posted by: Dari
Originally posted by: DragonMasterAlex
Originally posted by: Dari
While I've provided many links here to prove that Christ never existed, telling everyone is not a good thing. Then again, perhaps the title and opening date will bring people into the theater with their mind already made up that it is Satan that is behind this. Perhaps not. Either way, messing with the very fabric that makes civilization what it is, and not understanding its consequences, is a very dangerous thing. Telling the world that Christ never existed may have profound effects, at the very least on the makers of this movie.

Not everyone can handle the truth.

Also, you can't PROVE that something doesn't exist or never existed, the very notion is a contradiction. You can show that little or no evidence exists to support the claim of his existence, but you can't prove something never was.

Jason


I've already proven that Christ never existed, at least not the mythical Christ.

You haven't proven sh1t. I don't believe in the mythical Christ any more than you do, but to claim you can "Prove" he didn't exist is a contradiction and a lie. It's people like you who make Atheists look bad with this kind of piss-poor reasoning.

There can be NO SUCH THING as EVIDENCE for something that ISN'T. The damning information is the LACK of evidence in SUPPORT of the idea of the Mythical Christ. There is a HUGE difference there, and in these kinds of discussions it is important to be as precise as possible.

Jason

First off, I'm no atheist, idiot. Second off, you're right. I didn't prove anything, others did. And I won't provide you any link, you have to find them yourself. I'll give you some names. John Jackson, egyptologist, Gerald Massey, egyptologist, and Godfrey Higgins, historian.

While I'm not interested in your logical theories and corollaries, I will say that you can prove that the historical Christ and mythical Christ were not one and the same, which is how Christians get their Christ (by saying that the Mythical existed at one time). And you're wrong, there is a lot of support for the idea of the mythical Christ.

You know what, do a search for "Christ" in this forum and you can see my previous discussion on this topic. Don't say I never helped you out.

Again, and I'll put this SIMPLY so you can understand: You CAN'T prove a negative, it's a logical CONTRADICTION. We're not talking about multiple Jesus' here, we're talking about ONE man, whom some people believe to have been the son of God. While there is certainly NO evidence to support this idea, and the tales of these "Miracles" are nonsensical at best, the fact remains: One can't PROVE that it was all horse-puckey. One can DEDUCE that it was all a pile of crap for many reasons: Men don't rise from the dead, blindness isn't restores by a simple touch, small baskets of bread and fish can't feed thousands, virgins don't get pregnant, etc.

The strength of the argument against Son-of-God Jesus is ENTIRELY in the fact that his alleged "Miracles" are simply impossible scenarios.

In any case, I see no reason to believe Jesus wasn't a real *person*, but plenty of reasons to reject the mystical elements of his story. That's OK, though; there's enough solid meat to his teachings to stand on its own WITHOUT the mysticism.

Jason

link
 

TheGameIs21

Golden Member
Apr 23, 2001
1,329
0
0
I find it odd and humorous that the anti-christian people love to say they hate that Christians try to "force" their beliefs while they have no problem with the other religions and ideologies sliding in and forcing theirs. What about being forced to accept that Homosexuality is something that is to be embraced? What about being forced to accept that a 16 year old having sex with multiple other kids is OK? Your only problems are with Christianity?

What is wrong with the core values presented in the 10 commandments? That's what all of this is really about isn't it? Those are the real "Core" laws of Christians. I think that All of them are very sound.

ONE: 'You shall have no other gods before Me.' There are no laws on the books that would enforce or require this. Try this in another society though and you'll lose your life.

TWO: 'You shall not make for yourself a carved image--any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.' There are no laws on the books that would enforce or require this.

THREE: 'You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.' There are no laws on the books that would enforce or require this outside of the FCC but I don't want my kids running around saying "God D*mn" any way so I'm glad the FCC is there for this.

FOUR: 'Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.' There are blue laws that require some industries to be closed on Sundays. I don't agree with that but if I want to have booze on Sunday, I buy it on Saturday. Learn to manage your time.

FIVE: 'Honor your father and your mother.' There are no laws on the books that would enforce or require this. I wish there were since so many parents have no ability to teach their children how to respect people with is what Honor is all about.

SIX: 'You shall not murder.' This is a sound law nothing else to say.

SEVEN: 'You shall not commit adultery.' There are laws but they are mostly there to help decide who gets what in divorce. I think that millions of people would agree that they now think committing adultery was a bad idea. Websters defines Adultery as
Voluntary sexual intercourse between a married person and a partner other than the lawful spouse.
how many families have been split because of this? How many diseases have been shared because of this.


EIGHT: 'You shall not steal.' Sound law, nothing else to say.

NINE: 'You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.' Sound law and good daily practice. don't lie.

TEN: 'You shall not covet your neighbour's house; you shall not covet your neighbour's wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbour's.' There are no laws on the books that would enforce or require this.

Oh well, I'm done with my off topic rant.

On topic. I will probably not watch the movie. That trailer looked pretty stupid to me and it takes alot to get me to spend my money on a movie.
 

Lord Athlon

Member
Dec 4, 2004
111
0
0
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The Number Of The Beast

[Steve Harris]

"Woe to you, Oh Earth and Sea, for the Devil sends the
beast with wrath, because he knows the time is short...
Let him who hath understanding reckon the number of the
beast for it is a human number, its number is Six hundred and
sixty six."

I left alone my mind was blank
I needed time to think to get the memories from my mind

What did I see can I believe that what I saw
that night was real and not just fantasy

Just what I saw in my old dreams were they
reflections of my warped mind staring back at me

'Cos in my dream it's always there the evil face that twists my mind
and brings me to despair

The night was black was no use holding back
'Cos I just had to see was someone watching me
In the mist dark figures move and twist
Was this all for real or some kind of hell
666 the number of the beast
Hell and fire was spawned to be released

Torches blazed and sacred chants were praised
As they start to cry hands held to the sky
In the night the fires burning bright
The ritual has begun Satan's work is done
666 the number of the beast
Sacrifice is going on tonight

This can't go on I must inform the law
Can this still be real or just some crazy dream
But I feel drawn towards the evil chanting hordes
They seem to mesmerise me ... can't avoid their eyes
666 the number of the beast
666 the one for you and me

I'm coming back I will return
And I'll possess your body and I'll make you burn
I have the fire I have the force
I have the power to make my evil take it's course

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

\m/ \m/ \m/
 

Red Dawn

Elite Member
Jun 4, 2001
57,529
3
0
Originally posted by: Lord Athlon
----------------------------------------------------------------------

The Number Of The Beast

[Steve Harris]

"Woe to you, Oh Earth and Sea, for the Devil sends the
beast with wrath, because he knows the time is short...
Let him who hath understanding reckon the number of the
beast for it is a human number, its number is Six hundred and
sixty six."

I left alone my mind was blank
I needed time to think to get the memories from my mind

What did I see can I believe that what I saw
that night was real and not just fantasy

Just what I saw in my old dreams were they
reflections of my warped mind staring back at me

'Cos in my dream it's always there the evil face that twists my mind
and brings me to despair

The night was black was no use holding back
'Cos I just had to see was someone watching me
In the mist dark figures move and twist
Was this all for real or some kind of hell
666 the number of the beast
Hell and fire was spawned to be released

Torches blazed and sacred chants were praised
As they start to cry hands held to the sky
In the night the fires burning bright
The ritual has begun Satan's work is done
666 the number of the beast
Sacrifice is going on tonight

This can't go on I must inform the law
Can this still be real or just some crazy dream
But I feel drawn towards the evil chanting hordes
They seem to mesmerise me ... can't avoid their eyes
666 the number of the beast
666 the one for you and me

I'm coming back I will return
And I'll possess your body and I'll make you burn
I have the fire I have the force
I have the power to make my evil take it's course

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

\m/ \m/ \m/


Heavy Dude:roll: