The basic difference between conservative and liberal ideology?

[Orsorum]

Regarding peoples' positions in life:

Conservatives believe people are where they are because of their choices, liberals because of their life circumstances. Too simplified?

Work with me here.

 

[PlatinumGold]

i'm an Ideological Conservative but a practical Liberal.

 

[Ornery]

Yeah, change liberal to Democrat, and you've got it. I'm liberal, but I sure as hell don't want the Democrat's nanny government!

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: Orsorum
Regarding peoples' positions in life:

Conservatives believe people are where they are because of their choices, liberals because of their life circumstances. Too simplified?

Work with me here.

No, I don't think that's accurate. It is partially accurate, but depends on what issue you are talking about.

Basically this is more accurate IMO:

Conservative: Traditionalist, resists change

Liberal: Non-Traditionalist, promotes change

 

[Orsorum]

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: Orsorum
Regarding peoples' positions in life:

Conservatives believe people are where they are because of their choices, liberals because of their life circumstances. Too simplified?

Work with me here.

No, I don't think that's accurate. It is partially accurate, but depends on what issue you are talking about.

Basically this is more accurate IMO:

Conservative: Traditionalist, resists change

Liberal: Non-Traditionalist, promotes change

Is change good or is it bad? IIRC many Democrats fiercely resisted the Civil Rights movement.

 

[bozack]

easy.....

liberals are flighty morons whereas conservatives are levelheaded


seriously though....

Liberal, progressive, likes big government, lots of social services, huge handouts, high taxes.....think socialist or "star trek" collective mentality whereas no one should be too rich, everyone should have a job even if they are lazy and do nothing, everyone should get social security even if they don't plan and save for their own future, everyone should get the same health coverage even if it means a severe decline in quality as seen in many other nations

conservative, small govt, make your own way, self success, traditionalist views, low taxes because they don't want to pay for bloated govt/social services, would love to see an and to social security and have people manage their own finances/well being..privitization...

just my highly biased take on it.

 

[ElFenix]

progressive, likes big government, lots of social services, huge handouts, high taxes.....think socialist or "star trek" collective mentality whereas no one should be too rich

nice, except for the fact that progressives are the anti-socialist.

 

[Witling]

I assume this is a serious question and you're asking in the abstract.

In theory, conservatives are more satisfied with how things are and are slower to change. They are more fiscally conservative and believe less in government intervention. They tend to be more "I'll tell you what's good for you" and everything else will be illegal.

In theory, liberals focus on what they're dissatisfied with and try to perfect humanity through legislation. They are quicker to embrace new ideas and willint to tax to try and acheive their goals. They tend to be more live and let live with respect to social issues.

In practice, it's not quite so clear cut. The Republicans, for example, have had the biggest deficit spending we've ever seen.

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: Orsorum
Regarding peoples' positions in life:

Conservatives believe people are where they are because of their choices, liberals because of their life circumstances. Too simplified?

Work with me here.

technically, liberalism was the ideology of the middle class, and by middle class i don't mean the bastardized version we've come up with in the US. middle class is, traditionally, the bourgeois, that is, the professional and merchant classes. that includes lawyers, clerks, shop owners, etc. it probably included some skilled laborers and artisans. it didn't include the average factory worker. liberalism was about expanded political rights to go with the newfound economic power that came with industry not particularly bound to the land (which had propped up the feudal system). the closest we've got to that ideology today is the libertarians. the so-called liberals of today are, in actuality, some mild form of social-democrat. liberalism as a mainstream political ideology probably died with roosevelt's court packing scheme in the middle 1930s, when the power of the federal gov't was greatly expanded.

 

[SuperTool]

Conservatives are the ancors, liberals are the sails.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: Orsorum

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: Orsorum
Regarding peoples' positions in life:

Conservatives believe people are where they are because of their choices, liberals because of their life circumstances. Too simplified?

Work with me here.

No, I don't think that's accurate. It is partially accurate, but depends on what issue you are talking about.

Basically this is more accurate IMO:

Conservative: Traditionalist, resists change

Liberal: Non-Traditionalist, promotes change

Is change good or is it bad? IIRC many Democrats fiercely resisted the Civil Rights movement.

Change is neither Good or Bad, it can be either deopending on the Reason for change or the
Rresult of change.

Liberals are Liberals, Democrats are Democrats. It may be popular to consider them the same, but that's incorrect. There are Conservative Democrats and Liberal Republicans, for example. The definition of "Democrat" and the definition of "Liberal" is very different.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: SuperTool... liberals are the sails.

Yup - Too bad they let their sails luff. Best trim it in a bit - here is some anchor rope

CkG

 

[Jhhnn]

The question ignores the reality of actual political thought and processes. The whole level of conceptualization is faulty, and ignores the issue of authoritarian vs libertarian.

Here, take the test-

http://www.digitalronin.f2s.com/politicalcompass/

Me, I land in the neighborhood of Nelson Mandela- dead on, as near as I can tell, actually. I'd be interested to see where some of our other members fall, although the ones I'd like to see most probably wouldn't be honest about it...

After taking the test, check out where the Dems' presidential candidates land- so much for the notion that Dean is a leftist, for example.

I'd like to see the whole thing made three dimensional, with fiscal issues on a third axis...

 

[Martin]

Originally posted by: Orsorum
Regarding peoples' positions in life:

Conservatives believe people are where they are because of their choices, liberals because of their life circumstances. Too simplified?

Work with me here.

Yes, too simplified and IMO irrelvant to defining liberals/conservatives. If you're looking for the basic difference (or rather, the closest thing to it) I think you should consider the attitude towards change. It may be the only thing all liberals and all conservatives share.

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: Jhhnn
The question ignores the reality of actual political thought and processes. The whole level of conceptualization is faulty, and ignores the issue of authoritarian vs libertarian.

Here, take the test-

http://www.digitalronin.f2s.com/politicalcompass/

Me, I land in the neighborhood of Nelson Mandela- dead on, as near as I can tell, actually. I'd be interested to see where some of our other members fall, although the ones I'd like to see most probably wouldn't be honest about it...

After taking the test, check out where the Dems' presidential candidates land- so much for the notion that Dean is a leftist, for example.

I'd like to see the whole thing made three dimensional, with fiscal issues on a third axis...

i hate that test because some of the questions are blatantly wrong.

like... "Controlling inflation is more important than controlling unemployment."

orsorum should know what i mean by that

 

[josphII]

Originally posted by: Witling
I assume this is a serious question and you're asking in the abstract.

In theory, conservatives are more satisfied with how things are and are slower to change. They are more fiscally conservative and believe less in government intervention. They tend to be more "I'll tell you what's good for you" and everything else will be illegal.

In theory, liberals focus on what they're dissatisfied with and try to perfect humanity through legislation. They are quicker to embrace new ideas and willint to tax to try and acheive their goals. They tend to be more live and let live with respect to social issues.

In practice, it's not quite so clear cut. The Republicans, for example, have had the biggest deficit spending we've ever seen.

you have the bold parts totally backwards. democrats are the ones who tell you how to live your life. example? cigrettes, guns, diet, car millage, etc, etc, etc.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: Jhhnn
The question ignores the reality of actual political thought and processes. The whole level of conceptualization is faulty, and ignores the issue of authoritarian vs libertarian.

Here, take the test-

http://www.digitalronin.f2s.com/politicalcompass/

Me, I land in the neighborhood of Nelson Mandela- dead on, as near as I can tell, actually. I'd be interested to see where some of our other members fall, although the ones I'd like to see most probably wouldn't be honest about it...

After taking the test, check out where the Dems' presidential candidates land- so much for the notion that Dean is a leftist, for example.

I'd like to see the whole thing made three dimensional, with fiscal issues on a third axis...

Here are my results superimposed over the international chart

CkG

Edit - BTW that "test" sucks as I've pointed out before.

 

[fjord]

Please don't confuse conservative /liberal to equate with republican/democrat (political parties). This is a superficial connection.

The U.S. faux election process is a product of an institutionalized, endemic, subtle corruption of democracy.

I won't speak to conservative or liberal ideology, because I am neither. I'll let others do that.

I'm more interested in democracy, and democratic ideology.

---
"We can have a democratic society or we can have great concentrated wealth in the hands of a few. We cannot have both" --Supreme Court Justice Louis Brandeis

 

[Martin]

Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY

Originally posted by: Jhhnn
The question ignores the reality of actual political thought and processes. The whole level of conceptualization is faulty, and ignores the issue of authoritarian vs libertarian.

Here, take the test-

http://www.digitalronin.f2s.com/politicalcompass/

Me, I land in the neighborhood of Nelson Mandela- dead on, as near as I can tell, actually. I'd be interested to see where some of our other members fall, although the ones I'd like to see most probably wouldn't be honest about it...

After taking the test, check out where the Dems' presidential candidates land- so much for the notion that Dean is a leftist, for example.

I'd like to see the whole thing made three dimensional, with fiscal issues on a third axis...

Here are my results superimposed over the international chart

CkG

Edit - BTW that "test" sucks as I've pointed out before.

That's funny actually. But your PS skills do suck

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: MartyTheManiak

Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY

Originally posted by: Jhhnn
The question ignores the reality of actual political thought and processes. The whole level of conceptualization is faulty, and ignores the issue of authoritarian vs libertarian.

Here, take the test-

http://www.digitalronin.f2s.com/politicalcompass/

Me, I land in the neighborhood of Nelson Mandela- dead on, as near as I can tell, actually. I'd be interested to see where some of our other members fall, although the ones I'd like to see most probably wouldn't be honest about it...

After taking the test, check out where the Dems' presidential candidates land- so much for the notion that Dean is a leftist, for example.

I'd like to see the whole thing made three dimensional, with fiscal issues on a third axis...

Here are my results superimposed over the international chart

CkG

Edit - BTW that "test" sucks as I've pointed out before.

That's funny actually. But your PS skills do suck

I couldn't get my text to match - so sue me. It helps you find mine though.

CkG

 

[josphII]

Originally posted by: Jhhnn
The question ignores the reality of actual political thought and processes. The whole level of conceptualization is faulty, and ignores the issue of authoritarian vs libertarian.

Here, take the test-

http://www.digitalronin.f2s.com/politicalcompass/

Me, I land in the neighborhood of Nelson Mandela- dead on, as near as I can tell, actually. I'd be interested to see where some of our other members fall, although the ones I'd like to see most probably wouldn't be honest about it...

After taking the test, check out where the Dems' presidential candidates land- so much for the notion that Dean is a leftist, for example.

I'd like to see the whole thing made three dimensional, with fiscal issues on a third axis...

Economic Left/Right: -3.12
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 0.10

the questions were very poor imo

 

[Orsorum]

Originally posted by: ElFenix

i hate that test because some of the questions are blatantly wrong.

like... "Controlling inflation is more important than controlling unemployment."

orsorum should know what i mean by that

Mr. Phillips, I presume?

 

[Painman]

Me = Dalai Lama territory

Some of those questions are pretty loaded, but IMO it's better than most of these I've seen...

 

[gsaldivar]

Originally posted by: Orsorum
Conservatives believe people are where they are because of their
choices, liberals because of their life circumstances. Too simplified?

I'd also add...

Liberals:
- Believe in success though entitlement, condition and seniority; rather than through merit and ability.
- Believe that success should be representatitve, inclusive and in proportion, of all segments of the population.
- Believe that wages above that which is necessary to compensate for a task, are unethical and unfair.
- Believe that world leadership can be maintained through fair, equal and egalitarian treatment of other states.
- Believe that having job is a right, rather than a privilege.
- Believe that industrial development should be limited to a rate that the environment can sustain.
- Believe that government knows how to better invest the individuals wages, to insure future financial security.
- Believe that government is the most efficient form of a large organization.

Conservatives:
- Believe that merit and ability should be the sole factors in success, even if that means some groups are excluded.
- Believe that success need not be a proportional, inclusive representation of all segments of the population.
- Believe that there are some ethical and justifiable reasons for compensating a person excessively.
- Believe that world leadership is an ongoing struggle, at times requiring unequal treatment of other states.
- Believe that having a job is a privilege that is earned, rather than conferred.
- Believe that industrial development need not be limited to a rate at which the environment can sustain.
- Believe that individuals best know how to invest their wages, to insure future financial stability.
- Believe that government is the least efficient form of a large organization.

 

[HeroOfPellinor]

Originally posted by: Orsorum
Regarding peoples' positions in life:

Conservatives believe people are where they are because of their choices, liberals because of their life circumstances. Too simplified?

Work with me here.

I think, honestly, that you're on to something. I love serious arguments about what leads to one being liberal or conservative.

Truthfully, and I've given this a lot of thought...I think the liberal side of things is much easier to argue and to understand. Young people and the poorly educated, which included a large percentage of minorities, who lack experience and wisdom and knowledge, are able to grasp the concepts and arguments because they are the least complex. They fit the most conveniently under the literal translation of our 200 year old constitution. My evidence for this is that so many young people and African Americans vote democrat.

But, as you grow more well educated and more experienced and smarter, you have the opportunity to seize on a deeper layer of logical reasoning. For the intellectually insecure, it's too frightening to take the less easily argued point of view. Others simply don't ponder deeply enough on it and fail to see it and to them, the argument coming from this side are frightening and misunderstood which is why they see deep dark conspiracies behind conservative ideology. Others never reach a place to even have the chance to grasp the logic and are merely doomed because of the circumstances into which they were born.

But the struggle between simplistic logic and complex logic and a populous proportionally equal in their abilities and willingness to choose and grasp either is sufficient to maintain balance and prevent covert malice from either side.