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The banking industry knew what they were doing and knew what it would lead to.. so.. why did they do it? why do we allow

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dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,912
46
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: blackangst1
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: blackangst1
The reasons these sub-prime mortages went bad is...well...the people who signed the contracts failed to pay.
Your continued lambasting of the ordinary American citizen who has been duped by corporate thugs is getting extremely old.

Perhaps a move to a country more suitable to your orwellian terms is in order.
orwellian? YOU are the one calling for MORE regulation. YOU are the one calling for government oversight. YOU are the one who lambasts the free market. WTF are you talking about? Show me a post about ANYTHING where I've said we need MORE regulation or MORE government oversight. Just one.

If youre going to attack me at least do so by not creating lies.
Oh stop it. You know full well what I am talking about.

Many others have had enough. I've noticed the posts by others such as Bowfinger all over you. You are covered with tar and the feathers are flying covering you all up.
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,912
46
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: blackangst1
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: dahunan
Topic Title: The banking industry knew what they were doing and knew what it would lead to.. so.. why did they do it? why do we allow

They all knew.. and now WE have to bail them out

Countrywide President and CEO received 9 million and 10 million each after BOA finished the buyout.. WTF WTF WTF .. these people architected the US Recession right now .. and they are fucking rewarded...

Why do we continue to allow these robber barons to fuck this country all the time..

Remember the Junk Bonds.. Look up a special Sonofabush .. and how much he cost AMERICA .. yet.. served no jail time and is still finding way to fuck the american taxpayers
Thanks for validating my old posts from Jan 2007 when I brought up the impending Countrywide and it's supporting characters impendig disaster that I actually starting sounding the alarm in 2002.

It took 5 years for the house of cards to fall but it certainly fell and is continuing to fall.
Link or retract. Troll.
You weren't even on here until 2005. Run along child.
 

blackangst1

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
20,464
719
126
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: blackangst1
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: blackangst1
The reasons these sub-prime mortages went bad is...well...the people who signed the contracts failed to pay.
Your continued lambasting of the ordinary American citizen who has been duped by corporate thugs is getting extremely old.

Perhaps a move to a country more suitable to your orwellian terms is in order.
orwellian? YOU are the one calling for MORE regulation. YOU are the one calling for government oversight. YOU are the one who lambasts the free market. WTF are you talking about? Show me a post about ANYTHING where I've said we need MORE regulation or MORE government oversight. Just one.

If youre going to attack me at least do so by not creating lies.
Oh stop it. You know full well what I am talking about.

Many others have had enough. I've noticed the posts by others such as Bowfinger all over you. You are covered with tar and the feathers are flying covering you all up.
:confused:

Find that post of mine yet proving your allegation Im "orwellian"? Yeah didnt think so. Yet another lie from Dave. What a shocker.
 

CADsortaGUY

Lifer
Oct 19, 2001
25,162
1
76
www.ShawCAD.com
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: blackangst1
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: dahunan
Topic Title: The banking industry knew what they were doing and knew what it would lead to.. so.. why did they do it? why do we allow

They all knew.. and now WE have to bail them out

Countrywide President and CEO received 9 million and 10 million each after BOA finished the buyout.. WTF WTF WTF .. these people architected the US Recession right now .. and they are fucking rewarded...

Why do we continue to allow these robber barons to fuck this country all the time..

Remember the Junk Bonds.. Look up a special Sonofabush .. and how much he cost AMERICA .. yet.. served no jail time and is still finding way to fuck the american taxpayers
Thanks for validating my old posts from Jan 2007 when I brought up the impending Countrywide and it's supporting characters impendig disaster that I actually starting sounding the alarm in 2002.

It took 5 years for the house of cards to fall but it certainly fell and is continuing to fall.
Link or retract. Troll.
You weren't even on here until 2005. Run along child.
OK, I was here back then. Got a link?
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,912
46
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: blackangst1
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: dahunan
Topic Title: The banking industry knew what they were doing and knew what it would lead to.. so.. why did they do it? why do we allow

They all knew.. and now WE have to bail them out

Countrywide President and CEO received 9 million and 10 million each after BOA finished the buyout.. WTF WTF WTF .. these people architected the US Recession right now .. and they are fucking rewarded...

Why do we continue to allow these robber barons to fuck this country all the time..

Remember the Junk Bonds.. Look up a special Sonofabush .. and how much he cost AMERICA .. yet.. served no jail time and is still finding way to fuck the american taxpayers
Thanks for validating my old posts from Jan 2007 when I brought up the impending Countrywide and it's supporting characters impendig disaster that I actually starting sounding the alarm in 2002.

It took 5 years for the house of cards to fall but it certainly fell and is continuing to fall.
Link or retract. Troll.
You weren't even on here until 2005. Run along child.
OK, I was here back then. Got a link?
Oh please. You have a memory like seive?
 

blackangst1

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
20,464
719
126
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: blackangst1
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: dahunan
Topic Title: The banking industry knew what they were doing and knew what it would lead to.. so.. why did they do it? why do we allow

They all knew.. and now WE have to bail them out

Countrywide President and CEO received 9 million and 10 million each after BOA finished the buyout.. WTF WTF WTF .. these people architected the US Recession right now .. and they are fucking rewarded...

Why do we continue to allow these robber barons to fuck this country all the time..

Remember the Junk Bonds.. Look up a special Sonofabush .. and how much he cost AMERICA .. yet.. served no jail time and is still finding way to fuck the american taxpayers
Thanks for validating my old posts from Jan 2007 when I brought up the impending Countrywide and it's supporting characters impendig disaster that I actually starting sounding the alarm in 2002.

It took 5 years for the house of cards to fall but it certainly fell and is continuing to fall.
Link or retract. Troll.
You weren't even on here until 2005. Run along child.
OK, I was here back then. Got a link?
Oh please. You have a memory like seive?
Wow a deflection without backing up his comments. What a suprise!
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,912
46
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: blackangst1
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: blackangst1
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: dahunan
Topic Title: The banking industry knew what they were doing and knew what it would lead to.. so.. why did they do it? why do we allow

They all knew.. and now WE have to bail them out

Countrywide President and CEO received 9 million and 10 million each after BOA finished the buyout.. WTF WTF WTF .. these people architected the US Recession right now .. and they are fucking rewarded...

Why do we continue to allow these robber barons to fuck this country all the time..

Remember the Junk Bonds.. Look up a special Sonofabush .. and how much he cost AMERICA .. yet.. served no jail time and is still finding way to fuck the american taxpayers
Thanks for validating my old posts from Jan 2007 when I brought up the impending Countrywide and it's supporting characters impendig disaster that I actually starting sounding the alarm in 2002.

It took 5 years for the house of cards to fall but it certainly fell and is continuing to fall.
Link or retract. Troll.
You weren't even on here until 2005. Run along child.
OK, I was here back then. Got a link?
Oh please. You have a memory like seive?
Wow a deflection without backing up his comments. What a suprise!
I have posted hundreds and hundreds of supporting articles over the years.

What have you done other than personal attack and no substance?

I have asked the head Mod precisly that question and awaiting his answer.
 

blackangst1

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
20,464
719
126
Originally posted by: dmcowen674

I have posted hundreds and hundreds of supporting articles over the years.

What have you done other than personal attack and no substance?

I have asked the head Mod precisly that question and awaiting his answer.
Link from 2002 please?
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,912
46
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: blackangst1
Originally posted by: dmcowen674

I have posted hundreds and hundreds of supporting articles over the years.

What have you done other than personal attack and no substance?

I have asked the head Mod precisly that question and awaiting his answer.
Link from 2002 please?
Ask the keepers of the database.
 

blackangst1

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
20,464
719
126
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: blackangst1
Originally posted by: dmcowen674

I have posted hundreds and hundreds of supporting articles over the years.

What have you done other than personal attack and no substance?

I have asked the head Mod precisly that question and awaiting his answer.
Link from 2002 please?
Ask the keepers of the database.
Thats what I thought. None, as usual.
 

Jhhnn

No Lifer
Nov 11, 1999
61,650
13,732
136
I'll agree with Blackangst1 in the assessment that smalltime flippers and speculators were a relatively small part of the default problem. They are, for the vast majority of instances, now gone from the equation, having already cashed in or defaulted, depending on when they took their exit. Their influence on the rapid runup of prices shouldn't be underestimated, particularly in the most bubblicious markets like Miami, Phoenix and Las Vegas. If that were the extent of it, it'd be over. OTOH, the fact that many were risking very small sums of their own money, if any, at ridiculously low rates meant that their influence was inevitable. It's the nature of every get rich quick scheme ever invented.

Hold up just a little bit... Where did all that speculative money come from? From the financial experts of the lending community, deregulated, converged and consolidated, doing the horizontal hula with Wall St... egged on by giveaway rates from the Fed... and the unstated promise of the Greenspan Put...

Which puts us squarely on the doorstep of the bigtime speculators, the banks and investment houses, whose recklessness is symptomatic of the entire Bush era. If their sacred free market rah-rah were to take its natural course, there'd be a run on the banks, various players jumping from tall buildings, and a prolonged period of debt-deflation in our future. That's really how the free market corrects itself- rather violently. Instead, we have the players trying to have it both ways- free market fast buck excesses on the upside, taxpayer bailouts on the downside... and lots of finger pointing at the victims, the dupes, the dummies the mis-informed and financially unsavvy homebuyers left holding the bag.

If homebuyers should have known better, and I won't argue that they shouldn't have, then their lenders, the guys with advanced degrees in economics and finance plus decades of experience certainly should have known better. If we're going to bail out the big guys, then we need to insist that they somehow bail out the little guys as part of the bargain, renegotiate the terms of hugely overblown selling prices and ultra cheap money into realistic prices and reasonable longterm rates. Taxpayers can loan them the money to do it, provide the liquidity, for a fair return over the long run. Not everybody can be saved, obviously, but perhaps enough to prevent catastrophic collapse.

As part of the deal, the big players need to be put on a permanent tight leash in the form of increased regulation. Face it- they made money when regulated, or they wouldn't have continued to exist. Think of regulation as a pre-emptive bailout, if you will- it prevents the circumstances that call for bailouts... while better serving the longterm purposes of the vast majority of Americans rather than the shortterm purposes of a very wealthy few...

This isn't the pollyanna-perfect world portrayed by free market naifs and purists, at all. Greed easily overcomes the enlightened part of enlightened self interest, and has done so quite dramatically many times in the past, repeated today.
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,912
46
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: Jhhnn

Hold up just a little bit... Where did all that speculative money come from? From the financial experts of the lending community, deregulated, converged and consolidated, doing the horizontal hula with Wall St... egged on by giveaway rates from the Fed... and the unstated promise of the Greenspan Put...

Which puts us squarely on the doorstep of the bigtime speculators, the banks and investment houses, whose recklessness is symptomatic of the entire Bush era.
Oh thank you thank thank you :thumbsup:

What I've been saying since 2002
 

dahunan

Lifer
Jan 10, 2002
18,191
1
0
This is just another way to centralize wealth.. those who thought they had some lost all ... those who have some.. will have a lot more when they buy stuff for pennies on the dollar..

 

blackangst1

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
20,464
719
126
Originally posted by: Jhhnn
I'll agree with Blackangst1 in the assessment that smalltime flippers and speculators were a relatively small part of the default problem. They are, for the vast majority of instances, now gone from the equation, having already cashed in or defaulted, depending on when they took their exit. Their influence on the rapid runup of prices shouldn't be underestimated, particularly in the most bubblicious markets like Miami, Phoenix and Las Vegas. If that were the extent of it, it'd be over. OTOH, the fact that many were risking very small sums of their own money, if any, at ridiculously low rates meant that their influence was inevitable. It's the nature of every get rich quick scheme ever invented.

Hold up just a little bit... Where did all that speculative money come from? From the financial experts of the lending community, deregulated, converged and consolidated, doing the horizontal hula with Wall St... egged on by giveaway rates from the Fed... and the unstated promise of the Greenspan Put...

Which puts us squarely on the doorstep of the bigtime speculators, the banks and investment houses, whose recklessness is symptomatic of the entire Bush era. If their sacred free market rah-rah were to take its natural course, there'd be a run on the banks, various players jumping from tall buildings, and a prolonged period of debt-deflation in our future. That's really how the free market corrects itself- rather violently. Instead, we have the players trying to have it both ways- free market fast buck excesses on the upside, taxpayer bailouts on the downside... and lots of finger pointing at the victims, the dupes, the dummies the mis-informed and financially unsavvy homebuyers left holding the bag.
Im not arguing, but rather asking. What does the "Bush era" have to do with it? Were there special concessions made in the last 6 congresses that werent there before? Was there anything other than a larger amount of companies offering risky loans for reasons other than market demand? Just curious. Im not defending Bush at all, but rather wondering if this is yet another attempt to blame Bush for something he had nothing to do with. I will say though I do credit him for making my Yahoo stock grow over 600% since he's been in office. I also credit him for the fact I make 25% more than I did in 1999. *shrug* It can go both ways.

If homebuyers should have known better, and I won't argue that they shouldn't have, then their lenders, the guys with advanced degrees in economics and finance plus decades of experience certainly should have known better. If we're going to bail out the big guys, then we need to insist that they somehow bail out the little guys as part of the bargain, renegotiate the terms of hugely overblown selling prices and ultra cheap money into realistic prices and reasonable longterm rates. Taxpayers can loan them the money to do it, provide the liquidity, for a fair return over the long run. Not everybody can be saved, obviously, but perhaps enough to prevent catastrophic collapse.
I agree 100%; however, I contend the majority of the fly-by-night lenders (well, they werent really lenders, they were brokers) were NOT guys with advanced econ degrees. As far as the big bank loans, although it shouldnt be this way, it's not a bankers job to be a friend to the borrower. Thats not to say he doesnt care, it just means it's his job to match their needs and qualifications to his products, while keeping the lenders exposure to risk at a minimum. I would also contend the problem with lenders is NOT making risky loans available, but APPROVING them for people that should have never been approved in the first place. It goes back to what I've always said-most of these people either were stupid enough to not read the very simple disclosure page, or simply ignoring it, and that this is a good thing because so many had mortages they shouldnt have in the first place. If you cant pay a 4 year car payment on time, and if you cant pay at least a $30/month payment on a credit card on time, you shouldnt be signing a 30 year mortgage. You just arent responsible enough.

As part of the deal, the big players need to be put on a permanent tight leash in the form of increased regulation. Face it- they made money when regulated, or they wouldn't have continued to exist. Think of regulation as a pre-emptive bailout, if you will- it prevents the circumstances that call for bailouts... while better serving the longterm purposes of the vast majority of Americans rather than the shortterm purposes of a very wealthy few...
I disagree. Maybe you are unaware, but regulation in the banking industry is enormous. LegendKiller has posted quite a bit about it, but people dont want to listen. Where regulation DOES need to be tightened is brokers. THEY are the ones with long leashes, not banks.

This isn't the pollyanna-perfect world portrayed by free market naifs and purists, at all. Greed easily overcomes the enlightened part of enlightened self interest, and has done so quite dramatically many times in the past, repeated today.

Well, thats part of a free economy. I'd rather have this than any other country though. It may not be perfect, but it is the best. You can look at it as "a smaller percentage of people int his country get screwed than any other country" or something similar, but there hasnt been, nor will there be, a system where everyone is equal financially, and no one gets the short end of the stick.

Well, except maybe in Qatar :p
 

Jhhnn

No Lifer
Nov 11, 1999
61,650
13,732
136
From Blackangst1-

Im not arguing, but rather asking. What does the "Bush era" have to do with it?
The Bush presidency is merely the inevitable outcome of decades of well formulated and hypnotic rightwing mindrot in the media, and a symptom of the economic warfare initiated by the financial elite against the rest of us.

Bush isn't the cause, but rather a symptom, a guy so dense, so pampered, so well conditioned and steeped in the doublespeak of the Right that he lies and then believes it himself.

And it really doesn't matter how "enormous" regulation of the financial industry is if it's not effective at preventing the kind of conflict of interest deals that have spawned the current crisis. If it were just the Brokers, as you suggest, then shaky securitized mortgage paper wouldn't have made it out of the other end of the pipeline rated AAA... and wouldn't need to be leveraged at 30:1 for the private equity guys and hedge funds to show a profit on it, either.

And you keep talking about 30 year mortgages as if they were really the issue. They're not. Even subprime conventionals aren't the big problem. The big problem is in the bait and switch ARM market. Lenders have outdone and undone themselves by using the same sort of tactics they use for no interest furniture loans, credit cards and payday loans in the mortgage market. Consumers simply can't take the hit- it's too big in relation to their total income. It may, in truth, be too big in relationship to the whole economy.

And congratulations on making 25% more than in 1999- you've barely kept up with inflation, which is better than a lot of people. You'd have had to make 125% more to have kept up with real estate prices, however...
 

blackangst1

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
20,464
719
126
Originally posted by: Jhhnn

The Bush presidency is merely the inevitable outcome of decades of well formulated and hypnotic rightwing mindrot in the media, and a symptom of the economic warfare initiated by the financial elite against the rest of us.

Bush isn't the cause, but rather a symptom, a guy so dense, so pampered, so well conditioned and steeped in the doublespeak of the Right that he lies and then believes it himself.
Wow. you and I might just live in different countries. But then it may be you are a victim of what I call the barn syndrome. Take two people and put them in front of a manure barn. Put one on the side and one at the end, at the main doors. Interview them after 20 minutes and one will say "I saw a nice looking barn. In good shape, looks sturdy, I'd love this on my property!". The other guy will say "I dont know much about the outside, but the inside is the dirtiest, shittiest smelling barn Ive ever seen. I would destroy this if it were on my property"

Is either one of them wrong? No. It's all perspective. The fact that you cant see the same pampering, conditioning, dense doublespeak coming from the left means you are either ignorant (which I dont think you are), havent looked at all sides openly (which may be true), or just cant admit it (which I think is true). BOTH sides are guilty here. EQUALLY. This bashing of the right gets old when valid comparisons are given of the left and scoffed at.

And it really doesn't matter how "enormous" regulation of the financial industry is if it's not effective at preventing the kind of conflict of interest deals that have spawned the current crisis. If it were just the Brokers, as you suggest, then shaky securitized mortgage paper wouldn't have made it out of the other end of the pipeline rated AAA... and wouldn't need to be leveraged at 30:1 for the private equity guys and hedge funds to show a profit on it, either.
It does matter if the regulations are too thin for a particular segment. The fact is, you cant regulate every possible scenario. Ive already stated more regulation is needed AT THE BROKER LEVEL. I guess in a round about way we agree here. My points are not incorrect at all.

And you keep talking about 30 year mortgages as if they were really the issue. They're not. Even subprime conventionals aren't the big problem. The big problem is in the bait and switch ARM market. Lenders have outdone and undone themselves by using the same sort of tactics they use for no interest furniture loans, credit cards and payday loans in the mortgage market. Consumers simply can't take the hit- it's too big in relation to their total income. It may, in truth, be too big in relationship to the whole economy.
I agree 100%. BUT. If so many people are too fucking stupid to see the bad financial decisions they are making, sorry to say they get what they deserve, and its no one's fault but their own. You mentioned pay day loans. I have a friend that managed 12 locations for a national company. Have you ever seen what people have to sign? It's ONE page, and in the middle of the page IN HUGE FONT is the interest rate of 350% APR. You really cant miss it. Who the fuck thinks 350% is a good deal? Jesus. It's their hole they are digging, not the lender. We can agree to disagree, thats fine. I just think too many people who dont even know how to pay a simple credit card on time, or dont even know what their interest rate is, or even know how to balance a checkbook, should be commiting to a 30 year debt. PERIOD.

And congratulations on making 25% more than in 1999- you've barely kept up with inflation, which is better than a lot of people. You'd have had to make 125% more to have kept up with real estate prices, however...
Yeah I have done better than some not as well as others. But I have done better. And it's all due to GWB policy. As is, like I mentioned, my retirement fund growth. As far as real estate goes, I couldnt care less. For me personally I have no desire whatsoever to own real estate, so it doesnt matter to me. I prefer my assets liquid.
 

cliftonite

Diamond Member
Jul 15, 2001
6,872
44
91
Originally posted by: blackangst1
Originally posted by: Jhhnn

The Bush presidency is merely the inevitable outcome of decades of well formulated and hypnotic rightwing mindrot in the media, and a symptom of the economic warfare initiated by the financial elite against the rest of us.

Bush isn't the cause, but rather a symptom, a guy so dense, so pampered, so well conditioned and steeped in the doublespeak of the Right that he lies and then believes it himself.
Wow. you and I might just live in different countries. But then it may be you are a victim of what I call the barn syndrome. Take two people and put them in front of a manure barn. Put one on the side and one at the end, at the main doors. Interview them after 20 minutes and one will say "I saw a nice looking barn. In good shape, looks sturdy, I'd love this on my property!". The other guy will say "I dont know much about the outside, but the inside is the dirtiest, shittiest smelling barn Ive ever seen. I would destroy this if it were on my property"

Is either one of them wrong? No. It's all perspective. The fact that you cant see the same pampering, conditioning, dense doublespeak coming from the left means you are either ignorant (which I dont think you are), havent looked at all sides (which you may have), or just cant admit it (which I think is true). BOTH sides are guilty here. EQUALLY. This bashing of the right gets old when valid comparisons are given of the left and scoffed at.

And it really doesn't matter how "enormous" regulation of the financial industry is if it's not effective at preventing the kind of conflict of interest deals that have spawned the current crisis. If it were just the Brokers, as you suggest, then shaky securitized mortgage paper wouldn't have made it out of the other end of the pipeline rated AAA... and wouldn't need to be leveraged at 30:1 for the private equity guys and hedge funds to show a profit on it, either.
It does matter if the regulations are too thin for a particular segment. The fact is, you cant regulate every possible scenario. Ive already stated more regulation is needed AT THE BROKER LEVEL. I guess in a round about way we agree here. My points are not incorrect at all.

And you keep talking about 30 year mortgages as if they were really the issue. They're not. Even subprime conventionals aren't the big problem. The big problem is in the bait and switch ARM market. Lenders have outdone and undone themselves by using the same sort of tactics they use for no interest furniture loans, credit cards and payday loans in the mortgage market. Consumers simply can't take the hit- it's too big in relation to their total income. It may, in truth, be too big in relationship to the whole economy.
I agree 100%. BUT. If so many people are too fucking stupid to see the bad financial decisions they are making, sorry to say they get what they deserve, and its no one's fault but their own. You mentioned pay day loans. I have a friend that managed 12 locations for a national company. Have you ever seen what people have to sign? It's ONE page, and in the middle of the page IN HUGE FONT is the interest rate of 350% APR. You really cant miss it. Who the fuck thinks 350% is a good deal? Jesus. It's their hole they are digging, not the lender. We can agree to disagree, thats fine. I just think too many people who dont even know how to pay a simple credit card on time, or dont even know what their interest rate is, or even know how to balance a checkbook, shouldnt be commiting to a 30 year debt. PERIOD.

And congratulations on making 25% more than in 1999- you've barely kept up with inflation, which is better than a lot of people. You'd have had to make 125% more to have kept up with real estate prices, however...
Yeah I have done better than some not as well as others. But I have done better. And it's all due to GWB policy. As is, like I mentioned, my retirement fund growth. As far as real estate goes, I couldnt care less. For me personally I have no desire whatsoever to own real estate, so it doesnt matter to me. I prefer my assets liquid.


What is this based on?
 

cliftonite

Diamond Member
Jul 15, 2001
6,872
44
91
Originally posted by: blackangst1
Originally posted by: Jhhnn

The Bush presidency is merely the inevitable outcome of decades of well formulated and hypnotic rightwing mindrot in the media, and a symptom of the economic warfare initiated by the financial elite against the rest of us.

Bush isn't the cause, but rather a symptom, a guy so dense, so pampered, so well conditioned and steeped in the doublespeak of the Right that he lies and then believes it himself.
Wow. you and I might just live in different countries. But then it may be you are a victim of what I call the barn syndrome. Take two people and put them in front of a manure barn. Put one on the side and one at the end, at the main doors. Interview them after 20 minutes and one will say "I saw a nice looking barn. In good shape, looks sturdy, I'd love this on my property!". The other guy will say "I dont know much about the outside, but the inside is the dirtiest, shittiest smelling barn Ive ever seen. I would destroy this if it were on my property"

Is either one of them wrong? No. It's all perspective. The fact that you cant see the same pampering, conditioning, dense doublespeak coming from the left means you are either ignorant (which I dont think you are), havent looked at all sides (which you may have), or just cant admit it (which I think is true). BOTH sides are guilty here. EQUALLY. This bashing of the right gets old when valid comparisons are given of the left and scoffed at.

And it really doesn't matter how "enormous" regulation of the financial industry is if it's not effective at preventing the kind of conflict of interest deals that have spawned the current crisis. If it were just the Brokers, as you suggest, then shaky securitized mortgage paper wouldn't have made it out of the other end of the pipeline rated AAA... and wouldn't need to be leveraged at 30:1 for the private equity guys and hedge funds to show a profit on it, either.
It does matter if the regulations are too thin for a particular segment. The fact is, you cant regulate every possible scenario. Ive already stated more regulation is needed AT THE BROKER LEVEL. I guess in a round about way we agree here. My points are not incorrect at all.

And you keep talking about 30 year mortgages as if they were really the issue. They're not. Even subprime conventionals aren't the big problem. The big problem is in the bait and switch ARM market. Lenders have outdone and undone themselves by using the same sort of tactics they use for no interest furniture loans, credit cards and payday loans in the mortgage market. Consumers simply can't take the hit- it's too big in relation to their total income. It may, in truth, be too big in relationship to the whole economy.
I agree 100%. BUT. If so many people are too fucking stupid to see the bad financial decisions they are making, sorry to say they get what they deserve, and its no one's fault but their own. You mentioned pay day loans. I have a friend that managed 12 locations for a national company. Have you ever seen what people have to sign? It's ONE page, and in the middle of the page IN HUGE FONT is the interest rate of 350% APR. You really cant miss it. Who the fuck thinks 350% is a good deal? Jesus. It's their hole they are digging, not the lender. We can agree to disagree, thats fine. I just think too many people who dont even know how to pay a simple credit card on time, or dont even know what their interest rate is, or even know how to balance a checkbook, shouldnt be commiting to a 30 year debt. PERIOD.

And congratulations on making 25% more than in 1999- you've barely kept up with inflation, which is better than a lot of people. You'd have had to make 125% more to have kept up with real estate prices, however...
Yeah I have done better than some not as well as others. But I have done better. And it's all due to GWB policy. As is, like I mentioned, my retirement fund growth. As far as real estate goes, I couldnt care less. For me personally I have no desire whatsoever to own real estate, so it doesnt matter to me. I prefer my assets liquid.
I find it funny that in other threads you state that the president has VERY little influence in anything. It is congress that passes laws and congress that ultimately approves them. You used this logic to shift the blame for the Iraq war towards congress and away from GWB. Yet now since it is convenient for you, you give him all the credit.
 

blackangst1

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
20,464
719
126
Originally posted by: cliftonite
Originally posted by: blackangst1
Originally posted by: Jhhnn

The Bush presidency is merely the inevitable outcome of decades of well formulated and hypnotic rightwing mindrot in the media, and a symptom of the economic warfare initiated by the financial elite against the rest of us.

Bush isn't the cause, but rather a symptom, a guy so dense, so pampered, so well conditioned and steeped in the doublespeak of the Right that he lies and then believes it himself.
Wow. you and I might just live in different countries. But then it may be you are a victim of what I call the barn syndrome. Take two people and put them in front of a manure barn. Put one on the side and one at the end, at the main doors. Interview them after 20 minutes and one will say "I saw a nice looking barn. In good shape, looks sturdy, I'd love this on my property!". The other guy will say "I dont know much about the outside, but the inside is the dirtiest, shittiest smelling barn Ive ever seen. I would destroy this if it were on my property"

Is either one of them wrong? No. It's all perspective. The fact that you cant see the same pampering, conditioning, dense doublespeak coming from the left means you are either ignorant (which I dont think you are), havent looked at all sides (which you may have), or just cant admit it (which I think is true). BOTH sides are guilty here. EQUALLY. This bashing of the right gets old when valid comparisons are given of the left and scoffed at.

And it really doesn't matter how "enormous" regulation of the financial industry is if it's not effective at preventing the kind of conflict of interest deals that have spawned the current crisis. If it were just the Brokers, as you suggest, then shaky securitized mortgage paper wouldn't have made it out of the other end of the pipeline rated AAA... and wouldn't need to be leveraged at 30:1 for the private equity guys and hedge funds to show a profit on it, either.
It does matter if the regulations are too thin for a particular segment. The fact is, you cant regulate every possible scenario. Ive already stated more regulation is needed AT THE BROKER LEVEL. I guess in a round about way we agree here. My points are not incorrect at all.

And you keep talking about 30 year mortgages as if they were really the issue. They're not. Even subprime conventionals aren't the big problem. The big problem is in the bait and switch ARM market. Lenders have outdone and undone themselves by using the same sort of tactics they use for no interest furniture loans, credit cards and payday loans in the mortgage market. Consumers simply can't take the hit- it's too big in relation to their total income. It may, in truth, be too big in relationship to the whole economy.
I agree 100%. BUT. If so many people are too fucking stupid to see the bad financial decisions they are making, sorry to say they get what they deserve, and its no one's fault but their own. You mentioned pay day loans. I have a friend that managed 12 locations for a national company. Have you ever seen what people have to sign? It's ONE page, and in the middle of the page IN HUGE FONT is the interest rate of 350% APR. You really cant miss it. Who the fuck thinks 350% is a good deal? Jesus. It's their hole they are digging, not the lender. We can agree to disagree, thats fine. I just think too many people who dont even know how to pay a simple credit card on time, or dont even know what their interest rate is, or even know how to balance a checkbook, shouldnt be commiting to a 30 year debt. PERIOD.

And congratulations on making 25% more than in 1999- you've barely kept up with inflation, which is better than a lot of people. You'd have had to make 125% more to have kept up with real estate prices, however...
Yeah I have done better than some not as well as others. But I have done better. And it's all due to GWB policy. As is, like I mentioned, my retirement fund growth. As far as real estate goes, I couldnt care less. For me personally I have no desire whatsoever to own real estate, so it doesnt matter to me. I prefer my assets liquid.
I find it funny that in other threads you state that the president has VERY little influence in anything. It is congress that passes laws and congress that ultimately approves them. You used this logic to shift the blame for the Iraq war towards congress and away from GWB. Yet now since it is convenient for you, you give him all the credit.
Went right over your head. Next time I'll include sarcasm tags.
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,912
46
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: cliftonite
Originally posted by: blackangst1
Originally posted by: Jhhnn

The Bush presidency is merely the inevitable outcome of decades of well formulated and hypnotic rightwing mindrot in the media, and a symptom of the economic warfare initiated by the financial elite against the rest of us.

Bush isn't the cause, but rather a symptom, a guy so dense, so pampered, so well conditioned and steeped in the doublespeak of the Right that he lies and then believes it himself.
Wow. you and I might just live in different countries. But then it may be you are a victim of what I call the barn syndrome. Take two people and put them in front of a manure barn. Put one on the side and one at the end, at the main doors. Interview them after 20 minutes and one will say "I saw a nice looking barn. In good shape, looks sturdy, I'd love this on my property!". The other guy will say "I dont know much about the outside, but the inside is the dirtiest, shittiest smelling barn Ive ever seen. I would destroy this if it were on my property"

Is either one of them wrong? No. It's all perspective. The fact that you cant see the same pampering, conditioning, dense doublespeak coming from the left means you are either ignorant (which I dont think you are), havent looked at all sides (which you may have), or just cant admit it (which I think is true). BOTH sides are guilty here. EQUALLY. This bashing of the right gets old when valid comparisons are given of the left and scoffed at.

And it really doesn't matter how "enormous" regulation of the financial industry is if it's not effective at preventing the kind of conflict of interest deals that have spawned the current crisis. If it were just the Brokers, as you suggest, then shaky securitized mortgage paper wouldn't have made it out of the other end of the pipeline rated AAA... and wouldn't need to be leveraged at 30:1 for the private equity guys and hedge funds to show a profit on it, either.
It does matter if the regulations are too thin for a particular segment. The fact is, you cant regulate every possible scenario. Ive already stated more regulation is needed AT THE BROKER LEVEL. I guess in a round about way we agree here. My points are not incorrect at all.

And you keep talking about 30 year mortgages as if they were really the issue. They're not. Even subprime conventionals aren't the big problem. The big problem is in the bait and switch ARM market. Lenders have outdone and undone themselves by using the same sort of tactics they use for no interest furniture loans, credit cards and payday loans in the mortgage market. Consumers simply can't take the hit- it's too big in relation to their total income. It may, in truth, be too big in relationship to the whole economy.
I agree 100%. BUT. If so many people are too fucking stupid to see the bad financial decisions they are making, sorry to say they get what they deserve, and its no one's fault but their own. You mentioned pay day loans. I have a friend that managed 12 locations for a national company. Have you ever seen what people have to sign? It's ONE page, and in the middle of the page IN HUGE FONT is the interest rate of 350% APR. You really cant miss it. Who the fuck thinks 350% is a good deal? Jesus. It's their hole they are digging, not the lender. We can agree to disagree, thats fine. I just think too many people who dont even know how to pay a simple credit card on time, or dont even know what their interest rate is, or even know how to balance a checkbook, shouldnt be commiting to a 30 year debt. PERIOD.

And congratulations on making 25% more than in 1999- you've barely kept up with inflation, which is better than a lot of people. You'd have had to make 125% more to have kept up with real estate prices, however...
Yeah I have done better than some not as well as others. But I have done better. And it's all due to GWB policy. As is, like I mentioned, my retirement fund growth. As far as real estate goes, I couldnt care less. For me personally I have no desire whatsoever to own real estate, so it doesnt matter to me. I prefer my assets liquid.
I find it funny that in other threads you state that the president has VERY little influence in anything.

It is congress that passes laws and congress that ultimately approves them.

You used this logic to shift the blame for the Iraq war towards congress and away from GWB.

Yet now since it is convenient for you, you give him all the credit.
Zing !!! :thumbsup:
 

BansheeX

Senior member
Sep 10, 2007
348
0
0
This isn't the pollyanna-perfect world portrayed by free market naifs and purists, at all.
As far as I know, free market proponents like myself do not see the free market as a perfect system (there are no perfect systems). You have to have a sense of proportion with these things and weigh the cost/benefits of each. Bank runs, Erons, can afflict thousands who CHOSE to contract with these institutions no matter how ignorant they were. In comparison, centralized control of interest rates and inflation has the potential to create a depression and massive inflation afflicting millions who had NO CHOICE in the matter. I certainly wouldn't blame eight years of artificially bid-up real estate on the free market... We haven't had anything close to the free market since the industrial revolution. If we did, we'd have avoided the great depression and the subsequent new deals, this housing bubble, etc.
 

blackangst1

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
20,464
719
126
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: cliftonite

I find it funny that in other threads you state that the president has VERY little influence in anything.

It is congress that passes laws and congress that ultimately approves them.

You used this logic to shift the blame for the Iraq war towards congress and away from GWB.

Yet now since it is convenient for you, you give him all the credit.
Zing !!! :thumbsup:
went over yours too. No suprise though :roll:
 

Jhhnn

No Lifer
Nov 11, 1999
61,650
13,732
136
Here ya go, Blackangst1- GWB on the subject of the price of gasoline-

http://www.latimes.com/news/na...9feb29,0,7650740.story

Apparently, he doesn't even look out of the windows of the limo in the motorcade... there are a variety of other examples out there showing just how disconnected, pampered, and incurious he really is... he's no different wrt the price of credit or real estate, either, protected as he's always been by familial wealth and by the isolation inherent in the position of governor and president... none of it matters except in the abstract, and what he knows comes straight from Greenspan (now Bernanke) and Paulson, all of whom ascribe to the methods that put us up against the wall in the first place...

 

blackangst1

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
20,464
719
126
Originally posted by: Jhhnn
Here ya go, Blackangst1- GWB on the subject of the price of gasoline-

http://www.latimes.com/news/na...9feb29,0,7650740.story

Apparently, he doesn't even look out of the windows of the limo in the motorcade... there are a variety of other examples out there showing just how disconnected, pampered, and incurious he really is... he's no different wrt the price of credit or real estate, either, protected as he's always been by familial wealth and by the isolation inherent in the position of governor and president... none of it matters except in the abstract, and what he knows comes straight from Greenspan (now Bernanke) and Paulson, all of whom ascribe to the methods that put us up against the wall in the first place...
er...I have never contended that he didnt lead a posh life. Or that he didnt ignore things you and I think about. Hell, John Kerry does the same thing. My contention is that his policies have nothing to do with the price at the pumps.

If I were that rich I wouldnt care about gas prices either. Nor would most of us. Whats your point?
 

cliftonite

Diamond Member
Jul 15, 2001
6,872
44
91
Originally posted by: blackangst1
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: cliftonite

I find it funny that in other threads you state that the president has VERY little influence in anything.

It is congress that passes laws and congress that ultimately approves them.

You used this logic to shift the blame for the Iraq war towards congress and away from GWB.

Yet now since it is convenient for you, you give him all the credit.
Zing !!! :thumbsup:
went over yours too. No suprise though :roll:

Do you deny this? And making 25% more than 1999 when the stock market collapse wiped out 5 trillion dollars worth of wealth (your number from another thread) is suppose to convince us that Bush has done great things?
 

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