The Banality of Evil

[interchange]

"Maybe the anti-nazis are the Real baddies." --Trump & co

Did you ever stop to think that your ilk might be providing validation for their behavior?

Funny that the last thread I posted in was the Game of Thrones one on OT where someone quoted Martin saying that "everyone is the hero of their own story." I agree that I'd rather have your side win the iron throne, but perhaps the real moral is that the world is better off without heroes in the first place.

 

[Commodus]

The same way we have reduced the murder rate in the US.

If you believe that racism is the driving factor, then you use the overwhelming facts and well grounded reason to educate people. Those that ignore this are not going to be a meaningful number and not worth the cost of trying to change.

The people celebrating murder are horrible people. They are equally bad as the people celebrating when a cop is murdered.

100% sure that we dont reduce murder by stoking resentment though.

These are the same people who have enthusiastically supported Trump. You know, the man who tells egregious, easily disproven lies virtually every day and actually gets a large number of 'moderate' people to believe him. If they're willing to buy what he says, what makes you think they'll ditch their deeply-held racist views just by talking to them nicely? It's not that they can never be reached, but you need a top-down culture that makes it clear they will be ostracized by everyone for their views, not just the left. Otherwise, they'll just ignore your impassioned appeals to reason and cling to those people who tell them what they want to hear.

 

[agent00f]

Um, empirically I do not have a low IQ. Remember, I was just recently tested and my IQ is in the 80 percentile which is high average. You cant be upper average and low at the same time, as those are mutually exclusive.

Just fyi that legit IQ tests are pretty tedious/expensive to administer and not what your r/iamverysmart crowd are referring to.

Did you ever stop to think that your ilk might be providing validation for their behavior?

Funny that the last thread I posted in was the Game of Thrones one on OT where someone quoted Martin saying that "everyone is the hero of their own story." I agree that I'd rather have your side win the iron throne, but perhaps the real moral is that the world is better off without heroes in the first place.

Yeah I'm sure the confederacy/reich only came to be cus libtards. Just because you're never going be part of anything good doesn't mean ethics can't be reasonably well defined.

 

[zinfamous]

Um, two months ago a Sanders zealot nearly killed a republican congressmen, and but for the security detail would've likely killed other congressmen.

Both sides have an extremism problem.

2% vs 74%

yes, it is so clear that both problems are so equally weighted that we must drop everything and address both as if they are equally problematic. FFS, people. for a forum of smart techies, you all suckass when it comes to data.

 

[agent00f]

2% vs 74%

yes, it is so clear that both problems are so equally weighted that we must drop everything and address both as if they are equally problematic. FFS, people. for a forum of smart techies, you all suckass when it comes to data.

Just because they're good at politics doesn't mean they can't pretend to be suckass with data. Particularly when it's in their interest for libtards to "educate" them for 100+ more pages same as with evolution.

 

[realibrad]

These are the same people who have enthusiastically supported Trump. You know, the man who tells egregious, easily disproven lies virtually every day and actually gets a large number of 'moderate' people to believe him. If they're willing to buy what he says, what makes you think they'll ditch their deeply-held racist views just by talking to them nicely? It's not that they can never be reached, but you need a top-down culture that makes it clear they will be ostracized by everyone for their views, not just the left. Otherwise, they'll just ignore your impassioned appeals to reason and cling to those people who tell them what they want to hear.

So far you are saying to do what I am saying to do. I never said it had to be submissive or overly nice, but it should be far nicer than calling everyone nazis.

Jordan Peterson - Called anti trans and a far alt right person.
Maajid Nawaz - Anti Muslim even though he is Muslim.

When people like this are seen as being extremists then something is wrong.

If you are advocating for people to not be friends with, and not do business with people they disagree with, totally on board. The problem comes when people want to do more.

 

[Zaap]

LOL another of THESE threads.

The OP embodies banality and most of the terms he tries to level at others.

The far left is just as much a bunch of cowards and shitheads as the far right. Trump triggers the stupid of both sides.

 

[realibrad]

Just fyi that legit IQ tests are pretty tedious/expensive to administer and not what your r/iamverysmart crowd are referring to.



Yeah I'm sure the confederacy/reich only came to be cus libtards. Just because you're never going be part of anything good doesn't mean ethics can't be reasonably well defined.

Yes, it was expensive, and yes, it did take a long time. I have family history of alzheimer's and my insurance was willing to partially cover my testing.

So, your point of low IQ people not being able to understand is what? I saw a professional and got a full test to see where I stood. Turns out I have a very low working memory index score. I did well in some memory tasks and very low in others.

That said, what does time and expense have to do with your claim that I have a low IQ?

 

[agent00f]

Yes, it was expensive, and yes, it did take a long time. I have family history of alzheimer's and my insurance was willing to partially cover my testing.

So, your point of low IQ people not being able to understand is what? I saw a professional and got a full test to see where I stood. Turns out I have a very low working memory index score. I did well in some memory tasks and very low in others.

That said, what does time and expense have to do with your claim that I have a low IQ?

When someone routinely plays dumb people might very well get the impression they are.

 

[realibrad]

When someone routinely plays dumb people might very well get the impression they are.

Oh so you think I am smart, but that I play dumb and you believed my act?

 

[agent00f]

Oh so you think I am smart, but that I play dumb and you believed my act?

I wouldn't say someone's smart just because the gop talking points they parrot confuse dumbshit tier democrats.

 

[realibrad]

I wouldn't say someone's smart just because the gop talking points they parrot confuse dumbshit tier democrats.

Thats great.

You correlate IQ with being smart or dumb. Empirically I have an IQ that puts me ahead of the majority of people. If IQ is an indicator of not being dumb, am I not the opposite of dumb with my IQ score? Or do you reverse your correlation of IQ and intelligence?

 

[agent00f]

Thats great.

You correlate IQ with being smart or dumb. Empirically I have an IQ that puts me ahead of the majority of people. If IQ is an indicator of not being dumb, am I not the opposite of dumb with my IQ score? Or do you reverse your correlation of IQ and intelligence?

Such smart.

 

[Commodus]

So far you are saying to do what I am saying to do. I never said it had to be submissive or overly nice, but it should be far nicer than calling everyone nazis.

Jordan Peterson - Called anti trans and a far alt right person.
Maajid Nawaz - Anti Muslim even though he is Muslim.

When people like this are seen as being extremists then something is wrong.

If you are advocating for people to not be friends with, and not do business with people they disagree with, totally on board. The problem comes when people want to do more.

Well, if you march with people who are explicitly neo-Nazis and support the majority of their core views, what are you? Part of why the term "alt-right" exists is because white supremacists wanted to spin their public image, to make it seem like they're just a different strain of conservatism. There is such a thing as going too far in labelling, but if the only difference between someone and a neo-Nazi is that they don't praise Hitler, they're still a neo-Nazi in practice.

 

[Perknose]

I am not deflecting
I am and have condemned the racist attack
I am not trying to silence you
And I have done something albeit joining my voice to others on the Internet who have condemned the disgusting actions of this white supremacist

Spoken like a gentleman.

Forgive me (or don't,) but I am always skeptical of those whose initial response is to muddy the moral waters but trying to chastise me for my rightfully outraged response to the ugly visceral and lethal hate that evoked it.

As Maya Angelou said, "When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time."

REAL HATE was that dim-witted schlub flipping out and killing and terribly maiming as many of his fellow human beings as he could with his car.

And for the record, it it needs be said, I do not and have never endorsed violence of any kind, let alone manslaughter unto murder, as a valid response in civil society, including politics.

Allow me to restate what I meant in my OP because I do believe that Hanna Arendt had it right about the true banality of evil . . . . that the perp was mostly stupid, no Marvel Comic super villain, but rather an insular, intellectually dim, "white identity" chauvinist twerp all too easily at home with the Nazi-themed ugliness of the alt-right, and given cover and tacit (and sometimes nakedly explicit) encouragement from our President.

From our f*cking President!

So, yeah, F*ck Donald Trump and all who enable him, be it by silence or support.

Heather Heyer's ugly, pointless death at the hand of James Alex Fields, Jr. is the stupidly lethal result of the Republican party's decades-long pandering to and courting of the low-information bigots they intentionally include in their base.

"What rough beast, it's hour come . . ."

 

[interchange]

Yeah I'm sure the confederacy/reich only came to be cus libtards. Just because you're never going be part of anything good doesn't mean ethics can't be reasonably well defined.

When did I say liberals or any such group/subgroup were the cause of authoritarian conservative bigots?

But acting like them even from a place of valid moral superiority is not helpful.

 

[bshole]

Spoken like a gentleman.

Forgive me (or don't,) but I am always skeptical of those whose initial response is to muddy the moral waters but trying to chastise me for my rightfully outraged response to the ugly visceral and lethal hate that evoked it.

As Maya Angelou said, "When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time."

REAL HATE was that dim-witted schlub flipping out and killing and terribly maiming as many of his fellow human beings as he could with his car.

And for the record, it it needs be said, I do not and have never endorsed violence of any kind, let alone manslaughter unto murder, as a valid response in civil society, including politics.

Allow me to restate what I meant in my OP because I do believe that Hanna Arendt had it right about the true banality of evil . . . . that the perp was mostly stupid, no Marvel Comic super villain, but rather an insular, intellectually dim, "white identity" chauvinist twerp all too easily at home with the Nazi-themed ugliness of the alt-right, and given cover and tacit (and sometimes nakedly explicit) encouragement from our President.

From our f*cking President!

So, yeah, F*ck Donald Trump and all who enable him, be it by silence or support.

Heather Heyer's ugly, pointless death at the hand of James Alex Fields, Jr. is the stupidly lethal result of the Republican party's decades-long pandering to and courting of the low-information bigots they intentionally include in their base.

"What rough beast, it's hour come . . ."

One of his teachers has said that this guy had severe mental issues and was on anti-psychotic medication.

Fields’ military records conflict with the recollection of Weimer, who said he was rejected by the military due to a history of mental illness.

“Senior year, he was real gung-ho on joining the Army and . . . toward the end of the year found out that he was denied and it was because of a history of anti-psychotic, you know, medication that was prescribed,” he said.

 

[agent00f]

When did I say liberals or any such group/subgroup were the cause of authoritarian conservative bigots?

But acting like them even from a place of valid moral superiority is not helpful.

Predictable fair and balanced BothSides tripe.

 

[realibrad]

Well, if you march with people who are explicitly neo-Nazis and support the majority of their core views, what are you? Part of why the term "alt-right" exists is because white supremacists wanted to spin their public image, to make it seem like they're just a different strain of conservatism. There is such a thing as going too far in labelling, but if the only difference between someone and a neo-Nazi is that they don't praise Hitler, they're still a neo-Nazi in practice.

I agree that if the only difference is in the support of hitler, but they believe all the nazi views they are a nazi.

That said, there were many people there that felt they were defending southern history.

Let me be clear because this is where it gets complex. The history they are trying to defend is different from what they are actually defending. Many southerners feel they are defending people who fought against northern oppression. The reality was that the south was overwhelmingly upset about the north wanting to end slavery. They were upset about other things, but the vast vast majority was about slavery and thus racism. The argument otherwise is a revision that many have made to justify supporting southern history and forgetting the racism.

So many were there protesting the idea of removing southern history. The way you combat that is with the actual history put into context. That shows people like Lee as a good military mind, but a person that fought for a horrific reason which was the defense of slavery. To those misguided people which in my experience has been the majority of southern defenders, I would suggest reason and discourse. The OP is not advocating discourse but promoting anger. That will not end well.

 

[fskimospy]

I agree that if the only difference is in the support of hitler, but they believe all the nazi views they are a nazi.

That said, there were many people there that felt they were defending southern history.

Let me be clear because this is where it gets complex. The history they are trying to defend is different from what they are actually defending. Many southerners feel they are defending people who fought against northern oppression. The reality was that the south was overwhelmingly upset about the north wanting to end slavery. They were upset about other things, but the vast vast majority was about slavery and thus racism. The argument otherwise is a revision that many have made to justify supporting southern history and forgetting the racism.

So many were there protesting the idea of removing southern history. The way you combat that is with the actual history put into context. That shows people like Lee as a good military mind, but a person that fought for a horrific reason which was the defense of slavery. To those misguided people which in my experience has been the majority of southern defenders, I would suggest reason and discourse. The OP is not advocating discourse but promoting anger. That will not end well.

I agree and I think this is an important insight. There are lots of people defending those statues, the confederacy, etc, not because they are racists but because there's a real sense of southern cultural identity and the confederacy was the one time the south almost made it on its own instead of always being in the north's shadow. In addition there's been a concerted campaign by unscrupulous individuals to whitewash the horrors of the confederacy.

So maybe some of these people are dupes and some of them even willing dupes, but it doesn't mean they are unreachable.

 

[agent00f]

I agree and I think this is an important insight. There are lots of people defending those statues, the confederacy, etc, not because they are racists but because there's a real sense of southern cultural identity and the confederacy was the one time the south almost made it on its own instead of always being in the north's shadow. In addition there's been a concerted campaign by unscrupulous individuals to whitewash the horrors of the confederacy.

So maybe some of these people are dupes and some of them even willing dupes, but it doesn't mean they are unreachable.

No, they know what the statues stand for and evidently don't give a shit so long as a caste system is still to their benefit.

 

[realibrad]

I agree and I think this is an important insight. There are lots of people defending those statues, the confederacy, etc, not because they are racists but because there's a real sense of southern cultural identity and the confederacy was the one time the south almost made it on its own instead of always being in the north's shadow. In addition there's been a concerted campaign by unscrupulous individuals to whitewash the horrors of the confederacy.

So maybe some of these people are dupes and some of them even willing dupes, but it doesn't mean they are unreachable.

Agreed. People in the south are fed a narrative that the war was not just about slavery and it was about many other things. The fact that there were other issues gives enough support to allow those people to buy into that idea so they dont feel so bad defending a culture.

This is not limited to the south either. How many people believe that Native Americans were a fun loving group of people who loved nature and got along before the white man? People love to change history. The best thing to do is use facts and context. Many in the south are not racists, they have just bought into something that they do not know the full history about.

 

[agent00f]

Agreed. People in the south are fed a narrative that the war was not just about slavery and it was about many other things. The fact that there were other issues gives enough support to allow those people to buy into that idea so they dont feel so bad defending a culture.

This is not limited to the south either. How many people believe that Native Americans were a fun loving group of people who loved nature and got along before the white man? People love to change history. The best thing to do is use facts and context. Many in the south are not racists, they have just bought into something that they do not know the full history about.

The blacks and natives had it coming. Did you know that africans were in the slave trade, too?

 

[kage69]

Agreed. People in the south are fed a narrative that the war was not just about slavery and it was about many other things. The fact that there were other issues gives enough support to allow those people to buy into that idea so they dont feel so bad defending a culture.

This is not limited to the south either. How many people believe that Native Americans were a fun loving group of people who loved nature and got along before the white man? People love to change history. The best thing to do is use facts and context. Many in the south are not racists, they have just bought into something that they do not know the full history about.

Lordy did that one hit me good. Couple days ago I had a woman go absolutely ballistic on me because she overheard a conversation I was having with someone else. I responded to a statement with, (paraphrasing here) 'Commanche used to go full ISIS on their neighbors. Ask any Apache or Texas Ranger, they'll tell ya.'

I agree with your last sentence too, with the qualifier of that area seems to have a lot of people who are particularly hostile to information that might cause a worldview re-evaluation.

 

[fskimospy]

Agreed. People in the south are fed a narrative that the war was not just about slavery and it was about many other things. The fact that there were other issues gives enough support to allow those people to buy into that idea so they dont feel so bad defending a culture.

This is not limited to the south either. How many people believe that Native Americans were a fun loving group of people who loved nature and got along before the white man? People love to change history. The best thing to do is use facts and context. Many in the south are not racists, they have just bought into something that they do not know the full history about.

Yes, people often are just looking for a reason to believe what they already want to.