It sounds more like locks will be dominating in other parts of PvP and their ability to run away is their weakness. I am trying to look at this from a team standpoint with a minimum of 3 people regardless of where the battle takes place (Arena, BGs, World PvP). I have a feeling that locks will seem lacking if they are fighting solo or 2v2, but will be a great asset otherwise when mixed with the right people. Let the other classes fulfill what you believe you are lacking in other words. Then again, I realize I am a complete PvP amateur so everything I am saying here could very easily be fubar.
- Status
generally what you say is true, locks are a strong group PVP class provided you can keep from being focused. 5v5 pretty much became zerg the warlock in season 3 because it was the easiest way to win
Did some 10-man Naxx runs last night. The ability of instant poisons to scale with melee crit and AP makes it extremely imbalance. Here's the DPS of a 20/0/51 hemo rogue. Even without the full poison talents, he was sustaining over 2.3k DPS.
Hemo Rogue Overall DPS
I played as a resto druid last night. They seem to hold best in terms of AoE healing, DoTs, mana efficiency, and even the HPS of their new flash heal.
EDIT: If I can get on, I can show how full mutilate rogues are sustaining over 4-4.5k DPS on the test dummies. No way destro locks on beta are beating the bugged rogues.
Hemo Rogue Overall DPS
I played as a resto druid last night. They seem to hold best in terms of AoE healing, DoTs, mana efficiency, and even the HPS of their new flash heal.
EDIT: If I can get on, I can show how full mutilate rogues are sustaining over 4-4.5k DPS on the test dummies. No way destro locks on beta are beating the bugged rogues.
There is one guy in my guild who used to have a lock for his main for years and after reading about the changes to Shadow Embrace is thinking of making a 5v5 team which consists of the following and I quote:
Looking at your recount numbers- wtf? Do all classes suck that bad at 80? We do ZA runs where our top toons are pushing out higher DPS now and that is without much in the way of Sunwell gear.
Most classes are still being tested. Mages still have poor DPS overall but that can be due to the gear they were given. All premades were in PvP gear, no +hit with gear enchanted and gemmed for PvP (resilience and stamina). The resto druid I was playing only had 1479 +healing.
This group makeup was what we had. It wasn't at maximum efficiency with buffs and PvE gear.
WWS 25 man nax clear patchwork kill
http://stasisguild.org/sws/wlk...-1220751819/index.html
wow forums post
http://forums.worldofwarcraft....picId=9679799431&sid=1
only took 4 years but locks finially get Instant corruption by default
http://forums.worldofwarcraft....04&pageNo=1&sid=2000#0
also Ruin is being moved up in the tree
http://forums.worldofwarcraft....49&pageNo=1&sid=2000#4
changes positive
http://forums.worldofwarcraft....04&pageNo=1&sid=2000#0
also Ruin is being moved up in the tree
http://forums.worldofwarcraft....49&pageNo=1&sid=2000#4
changes positive
I brought my old 70 Hunter back from the dead after playing multiple low level characters and decided to stop by the Isle of Quel'Danas.
I had no idea the area had so many daily quests! All this time I thought it was instance\raid only. Finally a good place to get gold while doing something interesting.
A bit late to the game, but no matter.
BTW, a question for mages. I have a lvl 28 fire mage leveling in Duskwood. I usually open with Pyro, 2 fireballs, wand->enemy dead. This got boring FAST. Do you have any skill variety at higher levels?
I had no idea the area had so many daily quests! All this time I thought it was instance\raid only. Finally a good place to get gold while doing something interesting.
A bit late to the game, but no matter.
BTW, a question for mages. I have a lvl 28 fire mage leveling in Duskwood. I usually open with Pyro, 2 fireballs, wand->enemy dead. This got boring FAST. Do you have any skill variety at higher levels?
lupi
Lifer
- Apr 8, 2001
- 32,539
- 260
- 126
I was actually thinking that they may be going that route with corruption earlier, and not for the well duh! reason most of us that played and lock would think but because of the other talent changes creating new 3/5 point sinks.
And just when you thought you were done worrying about the spirit changes:
Blue posts
Quote from Blizzard staff
Mana regeneration "too good" in beta
Nobody seems to be having problems with mana in Naxx right now (maybe Ret pallies), but I think that's because regen is too good across the board. I wouldn't use that experience (yet) to determine that you have enough Spirit. (Source)
Druid (Skills List / Talent Calc. (8905))
Lack of crit on Nax 10 Gear
Most casters are going to have a lot of Spirit on their gear, but we'll see if we can get you some more crit. (Source)
Mage (Skills List / Talent Calc. (8905))
Mana regeneration as a mageI hear your concerns about Spirit (and the Moonkin ones too) and it's something we are discussing. We don't really expect a mage to stand around waiting for FSR to kick in often. I was trying to stress that casters were sort of allowed to opt out of worrying about mana in order to just do more damage throughout a lot of BC. But managing mana is supposed to be a part of playing the class well. You have some mana related tools already, and we will discuss talents that benefit Spirit or else trying to strip some off the gear.
Fire Tree Feedback
Please use this thread to consolidate any feedback you have on the Fire tree. Which talents do you like? Which ones are disappointing? Which would be fine with a numbers tweak? (Source)
Frost Tree Feedback
Please use this thread of course to post any feedback on your own Frost tree. Comments on which talents are fun, which ones are confusing and which ones you'd never get are all welcome. It's fine to mention talents in other trees that you like to cross-spec into, but try to keep to the topic of the thread, because these get a lot of posts. (Source)
Arcane Tree Feedback
This forum is dedicated to any concerns, issues or feedback you have on the Arcane talents. Please try to keep other topics, damage comparisons to other classes perhaps, in other threads. (Source)
Paladin (Skills List / Talent Calc. (8905))
Protection Paladin gear changes (See this news)
Warlock (Skills List / Talent Calc. (8905))
Metamorphosis Feedback
While this is not final and could absolutely change, here is what we're thinking about for the new design:
[*]You keep your pet.
[*]You keep your spells.[*]It buffs spell damage (for that "blow your cooldowns" feel).
[*]It buffs mitigation (you could even tank for a bit).
[*]It provides the current snare reduction for PvP.
[*]You'll still get a few fun demon abilities, but you can just use your normal spells if you'd rather. (Source)
Its about time. Took them long enough. Cant read the links, so have they said anything about whats replacing it in the talent tree?
The main benefit I see from this is pvp. Will it be worthwhile to cast this as a destro lock in raids though?
for Corruption they are moving Empowered Cor up to Tier 1 still a 5 pointer and IIRC its 4/8/12/16/20% increased Cor Damage. No word on what is going where Emp Cor used to be
for Ruin nthey are swaping the place of Ruin and Devistation, Devistation becomes 1 point for 5% crit increase, ruin still 1 point i beleive
Nice Lock changes. I am happy to see more crit coming to druid gear as well. Resto druids need more now with the current talents and Nourish.
Leveling fire? Hmmm, don't think I know of any mages who did that south of 60, frost utterly dominates until you can get the talents further down in the fire tree. As far as diversity goes- aoe grinding pwns
At higher levels for soloing all three specs are completely viable, each having it's own strengths and weaknesses. Frost fades in relative terms once you get out of Kara, maybe ZA if you don't have the kind of group to support fires mana demands, arcane isn't good for raiding until 2pc T5 and that is only for a AB-FB rotation(40/0/21 build), overwhelmingly though- in late game raiding, you are going to be 2/48/11 and stacking scorch then spamming fireball until you need to reapply scorch. Don't get me wrong, you CAN kill things pretty much any way you want(there a tons of different options, rotations and approaches you can use) but as is almost always the case in all things there is an optimal way(locks have it even more boring in raids, they hit 1 button instead of two ).Wha? Ok, on my tree I don't worry about mana, I admit it, my mage? This guy is nuts. Doing ZA bear runs on my mage I do FAR more dmg 18/0/43 then I do 2/48/11 despite it being a SIGNIFCANTLY lower dps spec solely because of mana concerns. Maybe if I had a shad priest, ele shammy and was getting innervates(if I'm lucky I may get ONE of those, would need all three) I wouldn't have to worry about mana, but as it is mana management is no easier for me in TBC then it was in old world, actually I'd say it's quite a bit worse. Hell, if mana wasn't an issue all mages would keep 2pc T5 and just do a straight AB spam, and we'd top dmg meters without a problem
I would strongly disagree, we are getting WAY too many buffs as it is, honestly no healing class should be able to come close to what we can do now. With my exact gear now and the new talents(at 70 mind you, forget 80) I could break 3K hps and sustain it for quite some time. Trees are getting some of the most obnoxious buffs you could dream up(1sec GCD? heh, thanks for the 510 haste rating for 5 talent points Blizz
).
Aikouka
Lifer
- Nov 27, 2001
- 30,383
- 912
- 126
I refuse to sell my PMC cooldown for any less than 40g now. If the fuckers literally want to pay me 10g (which is practically a tip amount) for a 60g item, they can go screw themselves.
Originally posted by: BenSkywalker
Leveling fire? Hmmm, don't think I know of any mages who did that south of 60, frost utterly dominates until you can get the talents further down in the fire tree. As far as diversity goes- aoe grinding pwns
I leveled from 0-70 (well, from 0-60 and then 60-70) as fire with no problem. Although, I should mention that I had my Shaman with me almost all the time on my mage so the idea of needing a slowing effect to keep a mob from me... poppycock... that's what the Shaman is for :evil:!
Originally posted by: BenSkywalker
Wha? Ok, on my tree I don't worry about mana, I admit it, my mage? This guy is nuts. Doing ZA bear runs on my mage I do FAR more dmg 18/0/43 then I do 2/48/11 despite it being a SIGNIFCANTLY lower dps spec solely because of mana concerns. Maybe if I had a shad priest, ele shammy and was getting innervates(if I'm lucky I may get ONE of those, would need all three) I wouldn't have to worry about mana, but as it is mana management is no easier for me in TBC then it was in old world, actually I'd say it's quite a bit worse. Hell, if mana wasn't an issue all mages would keep 2pc T5 and just do a straight AB spam, and we'd top dmg meters without a problem
Really? I don't run out of mana on my fire mage, but that's also because I'll chug pots and use my stones if need be. But if I have a shadow priest in my group that doesn't suck, I can easily get by without using either in most fights. Although, the one thing that has me a bit worried about Frost vs Fire in wotlk is how the Water Elemental will be returning mana via talents... so if the damage is close enough, who will want a fire mage when WE = little mana tide?
EDIT:
Can anyone explain more about glyph's actual use? Looking them up a bit, it seems they have an hour cooldown? So can they only be used once and if so, is it for one spell... a short duration?
Originally posted by: BenSkywalker
I would strongly disagree, we are getting WAY too many buffs as it is, honestly no healing class should be able to come close to what we can do now. With my exact gear now and the new talents(at 70 mind you, forget 80) I could break 3K hps and sustain it for quite some time. Trees are getting some of the most obnoxious buffs you could dream up(1sec GCD? heh, thanks for the 510 haste rating for 5 talent points Blizz
More crit really wouldn't be a buff. It would be an exchange for other stats on the gear according to the ilvl. Trees are changing a lot in WotLK. I have already noticed some big differences running some normal 5 mans in beta. We will most likely be relying on crit more than we used to. Not a whole lot more, but a little more.
There's a glyph tab either under your character panel or spell/abilities panel. You have 6 slots to "enchant" your abilities. There's 3 major slots and 3 minor slots. I haven't used any glyphs yet in beta, but I'm assuming something like "Increase hemo debuff by 40%" would only fit in the major slots.
The one hour cooldown is most likely the time in-between creating glyphs with inscription.
Aikouka
Lifer
- Nov 27, 2001
- 30,383
- 912
- 126
I knew the first stuff, but what I'm referring to is what's listed on the items on wowhead...
http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?items=16
EDIT:
For those that can't see... here's an example:
EDIT 2:
Ruin will be 5 points when it's moved.
QuantumPion
Diamond Member
- Jun 27, 2005
- 6,010
- 1
- 76
The 1-hour cooldown is for putting the glyphs into the glyph slots. Meaning if you put a damage effect glyph in, but then you want to switch out to a healing effect glyph, you can't put the same damage effect glyph back in for 1 hour. It's to prevent tailoring your glyphs for individual instances/bosses/etc. The glyphs are cheap enough that you can change them around all the time at will, unlike jewelcrafting where blue/epic gems were prohibitively expensive to regularly replace.
The one hour cooldown refers to the time limit you can swap glyphs. It prevents players from constantly switching glyphs because they are cheap to make.
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