The AT Battlefield 4 F.A.Q., News, and Discussion thread

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Spike

Diamond Member
Aug 27, 2001
6,770
1
81
Its been around since day 1. The way the ticks works rewards aggressive play. If you're moving vs camping you'll have a substantial advantage. I actually don't mind it vs the reverse. At least it rewards the right style of play. FWIW its also why you sometimes get shot by people not facing you, get counter-knifed stabbing someone in the back, etc, etc.

Good info. I tend to sprint a lot into combat so, while this leads to a ton of deaths on my part, it would negate a majority of the issues with this tick thing. The only times I typically camp are when I'm eating and playing ;)

On SA, are you guys digging the F2000? It feels like it shoots slower (still plenty fast) and has less recoil than it did in BF3, but I know thats subjective. I only used it in a round or two so far but I found myself winning engagements easily and being able to keep my reticle on target much easier than with other assault rifles. Lately I've been mostly playing maps I go engineer on (ie, any map with vehicles) but when I go back to assault I will use this as my go to gun.
 
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Midwayman

Diamond Member
Jan 28, 2000
5,723
325
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That doesn't work because you don't actually see them yet and therefore cannot hit them. You might be able to trigger a suppression effect, but you cannot "preload" rounds in the air like that. You can throw a C4 or a grenade and hit them but rounds in flight won't. On their end the rounds will never have left your gun if they initiate coming around the corner first.

Pre-fire is mostly about human reaction speed. If you wait to fire until you see them, that's 200-250ms right there. There is associated input lag, display lag, network lag, tick rate issues as well, but it works on games that have all that sorted too. Its not bf4 specific at all. Try it. You'll win a lot more corner fights.
 

Phanuel

Platinum Member
Apr 25, 2008
2,304
2
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Nah, I already do that because of reaction speed. But I can't win a fight if I was never even in it according to the server. Which is my biggest issue at the moment.
 

Randum

Platinum Member
Jan 28, 2004
2,473
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I understand exactly what I'm talking about. I don't understand how you fail to grasp why the low tickrate of 10 is an issue and causes what I'm explaining.

I'm not crying hacks or aimbot, I've seen those in action and know what they are.

Lets say I am running down a hallway towards a T junction. I'm coming from the bottom of the T, the player I'm trying to kill because I know he's camping is waiting on the left side of the T junction.

If I come around the left corner on the T junction at 0.100 seconds, he will see me on his screen a minimum of 0.100 after the fact as that's when the server updates (every 10th of a second, .100, .200, .300, etc). So I have at least 0.100 seconds where I'm not even on his screen but I'm able to start shooting at him.

If I come around the left corner on the T junction at .150 or later, the server probably will update my location as still around the corner out of his LOS at 0.200 and give me an extra .050 seconds of action in which to shoot them before they re-act.

Vice versa, if he's camping that corner and knows I'm coming because I've made myself aware on the minimap through a previous engagement or a spot, or he's holed up on a well known choke point, he can pop around the corner and shoot down the length of the T towards me with the same effect in that I won't see his character update and come around the corner. for at minimum 0.100 seconds.

I've died plenty of times without ever getting a shot off while knowing exactly where some one is around a corner and being ready to fire but losing the tick rate update battle because they were closer to the corner and came around before I could.


But sure, go ahead, call me out for saying "Hacks" or "LAAAAGGGG" or w/e makes you feel better. This is a definite netcode/update rate issue despite what you'll pretend.

Video was interesting - still lots of communication that we can only "observe" from the player -I'll have to read up more on what people are seeing. But the argument I was making is that the 200ms before you - someone has a crappy connection. so regardless, its still a disadvantage to have a high ping - sure you will skip around the map and kill people prior to them "seeing" your player model. But playing on anything with over 100ms ping to the server is just stupid too. And it looks like it really has to do with the deficit of a high ping player and a low ping player.
 

Phanuel

Platinum Member
Apr 25, 2008
2,304
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I typically play on servers where I ping in the 30ms to them. And usually there are few people above 100ms. It all comes down to the server update rate being so abysmally low and creating very one sided encounters with regards to who sees who first.
 

BrightCandle

Diamond Member
Mar 15, 2007
4,762
0
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There is definitely an advantage to attacking around a corner not defending it. My style has always been more defensive but after I saw the videos showing the extent of the lag I switched style and have been pushing corner and went from being about even K/D to 6:1. Its kind of insane how much better you do by being aggressive in the game, that 200ms of extra time is enough to aim and shoot to the head twice. My enemies rarely get a shot off now. That is not normal and its not how these games are meant to work, that is bad netcode through and through.
 

Phoenix86

Lifer
May 21, 2003
14,644
10
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Video was interesting - still lots of communication that we can only "observe" from the player -I'll have to read up more on what people are seeing. But the argument I was making is that the 200ms before you - someone has a crappy connection. so regardless, its still a disadvantage to have a high ping - sure you will skip around the map and kill people prior to them "seeing" your player model. But playing on anything with over 100ms ping to the server is just stupid too. And it looks like it really has to do with the deficit of a high ping player and a low ping player.
At this point I highly recommend you research what your spouting, because once again you are wrong.

It's well know that in the 150-250ms range there is a decided advantage to those with a high ping. IIRC the sweet spot is +200 from your targets ping, but I never jacked around with it.

It's been this way since BF3. :colbert:
 

Randum

Platinum Member
Jan 28, 2004
2,473
0
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At this point I highly recommend you research what your spouting, because once again you are wrong.

It's well know that in the 150-250ms range there is a decided advantage to those with a high ping. IIRC the sweet spot is +200 from your targets ping, but I never jacked around with it.

It's been this way since BF3. :colbert:

You have any links off the top of your head I can check out for this?

I can't see myself seeking out any servers that give me a ping time over 100ms.....
 

Phoenix86

Lifer
May 21, 2003
14,644
10
81
No links off the top of my head but it's discussed here frequently.

Either Ive gotten used to the "netcode" or its been smoothed out because I have little issue with anything other than the really high pingers that screw up my timing and shooting cadence.

IIRC DeadFread has been known to abuse this "feature", maybe check with him. :p
 

Paul98

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2010
3,732
199
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There is definitely an advantage to attacking around a corner not defending it. My style has always been more defensive but after I saw the videos showing the extent of the lag I switched style and have been pushing corner and went from being about even K/D to 6:1. Its kind of insane how much better you do by being aggressive in the game, that 200ms of extra time is enough to aim and shoot to the head twice. My enemies rarely get a shot off now. That is not normal and its not how these games are meant to work, that is bad netcode through and through.

This is what I have been telling people for a long time now. It just changes the way you should play, don't get caught out in the open.
 

Paul98

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2010
3,732
199
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I have seen by far the worst hit registration since the patch today. At point blank range aiming such that every bullet or nearly every bullet should hit I am lucky to get 3 or 4 bullets to register. I am lucky to get a kill before I run out of bullets even if the person is right in front of me not moving. While others seem to barely have to shoot at all, I am dead well before they start shooting.
 

maevinj

Senior member
Nov 20, 2004
928
11
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No links off the top of my head but it's discussed here frequently.



IIRC DeadFread has been known to abuse this "feature", maybe check with him. :p

It's true. Go hop on some German servers. If you start owning them, they'll ban you for "high ping"
 

Spike

Diamond Member
Aug 27, 2001
6,770
1
81
It's true. Go hop on some German servers. If you start owning them, they'll ban you for "high ping"

I'm going to have to give that a try. I've been playing on servers where I usually have a <30 ping, several of which I am consistently a 1 or 2. I've never noticed myself doing worse on those, but I was not paying attention all that much.
 

Phoenix86

Lifer
May 21, 2003
14,644
10
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I'm going to have to give that a try. I've been playing on servers where I usually have a <30 ping, several of which I am consistently a 1 or 2. I've never noticed myself doing worse on those, but I was not paying attention all that much.
About half the time someone owns me and I bother to check they have high ping. The other half I just got owned. :(
 

Bill Brasky

Diamond Member
May 18, 2006
4,324
1
0
Just thought I'd drop by to say that this is the most technically frustrating shooter I've ever purchased. I've tried so many times to get past the BS and I end up rage quiting most of the time. How do you guys find any fun in this tightly coiled pile? Most of my games are so laggy I can't even get into it (40up/40down btw).
 

balloonshark

Diamond Member
Jun 5, 2008
6,601
3,086
136
No links off the top of my head but it's discussed here frequently.



IIRC DeadFread has been known to abuse this "feature", maybe check with him. :p
I remember that post.

Netcode and tickrate may be the cause, but good players with high pings definitely have an advantage in BF. In most other FPS's it's the total opposite because lower pings have a huge advantage.

And I have tested the "advantage" on European and Russian servers in BF3, and it is in fact there. People would complain and I usually got banned for wiping the floor with them. I found "the sweet spot" was to have a ping around 100-150ms higher than the average local player. In other words if the average was 50ms then I wanted to be 150-200ms. I began to have trouble again when my pings were over 250ms, and 300+ to me was unplayable.

IMO, 120ms is the max ping any server should allow if they want to keep things fairly even for everyone. One good idea Ive seen: servers that allow anyone to join to get the server going, then begin to kick the high pingers as the server fills up.
 

DeadFred

Platinum Member
Jun 4, 2011
2,740
29
91
No links off the top of my head but it's discussed here frequently.



IIRC DeadFread has been known to abuse this "feature", maybe check with him. :p
Yep.

I havent searched or have any links to prove any of this, I just know this from first hand experience that it works. I kept noticing that all my major issues were caused by high pingers in BF3; either I couldnt hit them at all, or if I did nail them they would just turn and obliterate me after what looked like enough damage to kill them twice over from my point of view. I decided to go see for myself on Euro and Russian servers and sure enough once I got the "feel" for the increased ping times I was doing the same thing to them.

In BF3 I played a lot of TDM on Canals and I eventually learned shoot ahead of certain regulars on the server with high pings when they were moving, because I knew they weren't exactly where my screen was telling me they were. Very annoying!

Id rather play with friends on US servers but I still have Europe included in my server filter for those times when no ones online and Im in the mood to cause a little grief. :p
 

Nintendesert

Diamond Member
Mar 28, 2010
7,761
5
0
Finally got to play again, was rough. Started bad but got into a rhythm so much so I kept getting the HVT tag.

I need a good deal on Premium, my favorite HC servers adding the new maps. SIGH.
 

Midwayman

Diamond Member
Jan 28, 2000
5,723
325
126
Just thought I'd drop by to say that this is the most technically frustrating shooter I've ever purchased. I've tried so many times to get past the BS and I end up rage quiting most of the time. How do you guys find any fun in this tightly coiled pile? Most of my games are so laggy I can't even get into it (40up/40down btw).

First bandwidth has little to do with latency. That said if you're the type that gets wound up over every quirk of net code, or more likely- like to blame your poor play on net code, you are going to have a bad time. If you can accept not every death is the fault of bad netcode, hacks, OP weapons, etc etc and realize you will probably benefit from netcode related kills as well, its all good.
 

DeadFred

Platinum Member
Jun 4, 2011
2,740
29
91
First bandwidth has little to do with latency. That said if you're the type that gets wound up over every quirk of net code, or more likely- like to blame your poor play on net code, you are going to have a bad time. If you can accept not every death is the fault of bad netcode, hacks, OP weapons, etc etc and realize you will probably benefit from netcode related kills as well, its all good.
Exactly, and I dont know of any online shooter that doesn't give you random WTF!?!?!? moments. What I find odd about BF is that it's ass backwards, in most games the lower the ping the better. On the bright side I can join a much wider range of servers all over the world and still do okay, whereas with CoD I wanted my ping to be 50ms or less to really feel comfortable. Speaking of CoD, MW2's peer to peer (IWNET), has to be hands down the worst idea ever for online gaming. o_O D:

When I stop and think about it, with all the people and servers spread across the globe, using so many different connection types, and the enormous amount of data being transmitted through multiple ISPs, it amazes me that online games work as well as they do. Id love to try a huge LAN party game of BF4 just to see how the game would play and feel in that setting.
 

Phoenix86

Lifer
May 21, 2003
14,644
10
81
Patch broke shit, BF4 stops responding when loading a map. Can't play shit and I didn't have time to troubleshoot...
 

Bill Brasky

Diamond Member
May 18, 2006
4,324
1
0
First bandwidth has little to do with latency. That said if you're the type that gets wound up over every quirk of net code, or more likely- like to blame your poor play on net code, you are going to have a bad time. If you can accept not every death is the fault of bad netcode, hacks, OP weapons, etc etc and realize you will probably benefit from netcode related kills as well, its all good.

Fair enough, but I don't rage about deaths or whatever. When I'm sprinting my screen hitches and pauses (rubberbanding?). I did some more reading, and it sounds like I just need to stay away from 64 player conquest, even though that's what I love the most. :(