The anti-crypto thread

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njdevilsfan87

Platinum Member
Apr 19, 2007
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The thing is, as long as it is not stable, it will not be used as a currency, and if any of the current cryptocurrencies get stable, they are not interesting as an investment/gambling product.

They are by default used as the currencies to process single state changes on their respective networks. They're not aiming to be used as "fiat replacement" currencies to buy a cup of coffee. Not when USDC runs on top of these networks... things changed a lot after Ethereum... more than 5 years ago.
 
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PowerEngineer

Diamond Member
Oct 22, 2001
3,567
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yes i know about turbine load(went down a rabbit hole on why power distribution is measured in ms, and a bunch of vids on how the network balances multiple turbines in non-intuitive ways) but most people arent going to sit around for 30 min to grok through that.

each type of plant has its own way of adjusting, for the stuff i was researching hydro/geo-thermal the main point was that peak demand was met by opening a valve to the idle turbines. gas/coal/oil have their own procedures for peaker plants and the complexity-expense for the combined cycle types sounds like a nightmare.

load balancing has gotten to the point that utilities are trying to adjust demand rather than supply by offering incentive programs to residential customers where you get a notice on your phone app that tells you to lower your power usage. if enough do, they can avoid firing the peaker and pass on the savings to the customer.

the thing about miners and green power is that the majority of wind/solar/alt power is still on the slightly more expensive than fossil with subsidies (coal still manages to be the cheapest in some situations due to historical infrastructure). in order for some of the green types to get over the startup expenses and cross over into profitable/expansion phase, they need large constant demand. residential and even commercial dont have that kind of 24/7 demand, and major industrial have already moved to the cheap source locations and arent likely to move (expand maybe, but not move). miners are one of the few that will pay for that power, and more importantly the profitability of crypto is enough to allow them to pay for it. those other more politically acceptable uses cant pay that much so they arent an economically viable option for the utility.

I have groked through these issues for more years than I wish to acknowledge, and so will offer some feedback on your argument.

As you suggest, it is always a challenge to balance the minute-to-minute generation and load across an electrical system (and there effectively only three covering most of North America). Imbalances quickly result in deviations from the 60 Hz nominal value; deviations beyond a few tenths of a hertz will trigger load or generation tripping (and perhaps lead to uncontrolled black outs). Traditionally, users of electricity have been allowed to choose the timing and amount of the energy they demand -- and the electric utilities adjusted the outputs from their generators to match their demands. Reliance on renewable generation challenges this paradigm because its outputs are based on what mother nature is kind enough to supply at any particular moment (you can decide to generate less than possible but no one likes to do that as it is an irretrievable lost opportunity ). This leaves utilities with less controllable generation to balance the electrical systems, and that is why there is so much interest in compensating with controllable loads.

When it comes to the adoption of greater amounts of renewable generation, what electric utilities really need are customer loads that are (or can be) shaped to better match the intermittent outputs from wind and solar plants. In other words, loads that can go away when the wind isn't blowing and/or the sun isn't shining. Large, constant demands are the LAST thing needed.

FWIW, those "smart" miners are moving to the Pacific Northwest to take advantage of lower rates subsidized by power generated at federal hydro projects. Any cheap power they receive through locating in a subsidized area is just taking that cheap power away from others in the region. There is no hydro power in the Northwest that is being spilled for lack of demand.
 
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BFG10K

Lifer
Aug 14, 2000
22,709
2,996
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More great news!




 

ultimatebob

Lifer
Jul 1, 2001
25,134
2,446
126
Crypto seems to have fallen into a trading range now. Every time I look, Bitcoin is around $40,000, Ethereum is around $3,000, Solana is around $100, and Dogecoin is around 14 cents.
 
Sep 29, 2004
18,656
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Was thinking about crpyto.

The problem is there is no moat. There is nothing preventing from new currencies from appearing. And seeing how inventing one and taking a bunch of "coins" for yourself can be an easy money grab ....... there's aot of motivation to do so.

So over time there will be more and more competitors all fighting over a fixed cash dollar equivalent.
 

DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
22,065
11,693
136
Imagine getting a loan at your local bank, then using that as collateral to "vote" yourself access to other peoples' money at the same bank. LMFAO.

Not that different from performing a hostile takeover using a collateralized loan. And it's not really "the same bank" since Aave != Beanstalk.

It is an interesting take on PoS though. Seems like PoS systems need an added layer of protection from 51% attacks, which arguably PoW chains need as well.
 

ponyo

Lifer
Feb 14, 2002
19,688
2,810
126

beginner99

Diamond Member
Jun 2, 2009
5,233
1,610
136
The dollar is quite stable, the inflation is not mainly driven by "printing dollars" but rather increased energy costs, and other bottlenecks in the market.

Sure. Sure...I don't live in the US and here we did not heavily print money the last years. And lo and behold we basically have the lowest inflation world-wide and the only reason there actually is any is globalization. But it's much less because the dollar is also worth less comparatively. Price up 10% in dollars, dollar down 8%, so you only pay 2% more, in a nutshell.

What I can concur is that inflation itself is not a problem. It's only a problem if salaries stagnate at the same time.


"Crypto's great when neither party trusts each other!" - Cryptobros

I would love to see how many funds get stolen via online banking each day. I know of 2 people that had this happen (friend, relative). In both cases the bank full refunded them but they had to sign an NDA. Yeah people getting hacked in online banking don't nmake it to the news. Doesn't mean no crime happening there. And it is entirely possible to have banking services in the crypto space that offer these same services. The fact you can be your own bank doesn't mean everyone has to be.
Crypto.com com actually has a 250k insurance in case of hacks. So you get up to 250k back.

Any day now. Any day now, just like Linux's year of the desktop (tm).


I'm sure you don't see the irony here. You complain about hacks and security which if you look always affect some "alt-projects" and never Ethereum directly. Why? Because security matters even if it delays things. If they rushed and something bad happens you would post that. But I'm sure you will not post here once PoS is up and running just fine and fully secure. You are on a tech forum. You should understand the huge complexity involved and huge need to be 100% secure which is almost impossible in programming.
 

VirtualLarry

No Lifer
Aug 25, 2001
56,560
10,175
126

Welp, NY (State) doesn't want crypto-mining no more.

(Just wait until they get a load of what's coming down the pike for Gamers, new PSUs that support transient wattage demands of 2400W, needed by the new 40-series GPUs with PCI-E 5.0 16-pin connectors. Some cards sport two of them!)

I should write their legislature, and inform them. They might want to put a moratorium on PC Gaming as well. (Eventually, in NYS, all Gaming will have to be done on Cell Phones, for environmental reasons, of course.)

Or maybe just blanket ban on importing PCI-E 5.0 power connector -using peripherals and components, including PSUs.
 
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IronWing

No Lifer
Jul 20, 2001
70,266
29,008
136

Welp, NY (State) doesn't want crypto-mining no more.

(Just wait until they get a load of what's coming down the pike for Gamers, new PSUs that support transient wattage demands of 2400W, needed by the new 40-series GPUs with PCI-E 5.0 16-pin connectors. Some cards sport two of them!)

I should write their legislature, and inform them. They might want to put a moratorium on PC Gaming as well. (Eventually, in NYS, all Gaming will have to be done on Cell Phones, for environmental reasons, of course.)

Or maybe just blanket ban on importing PCI-E 5.0 power connector -using peripherals and components, including PSUs.
Maybe instead of getting lost in whataboutism, you could try to justify crypto on its own terms.
 
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Red Squirrel

No Lifer
May 24, 2003
68,531
12,647
126
www.anyf.ca
I wonder how they enforce that, look for network traffic that is crypto mining related? Suppose you could pipe that traffic through a VPN. Or go by how much power you use? In that case just need to say you heat with hydro.
 

ultimatebob

Lifer
Jul 1, 2001
25,134
2,446
126
I wonder how they enforce that, look for network traffic that is crypto mining related? Suppose you could pipe that traffic through a VPN. Or go by how much power you use? In that case just need to say you heat with hydro.

Probably the same way they used to catch illegal indoor weed farmers... by raiding homes with unusually high electricity bills.

I kinda like this, though... someone needs to keep the pressure on cryptocurrencies to migrate to proof of stake and stop wasting gigawatts worth of electricity.
 

Red Squirrel

No Lifer
May 24, 2003
68,531
12,647
126
www.anyf.ca
I guess a house with an unusual amount of solar panels and wind turbines might be suspect too. Though I have a feeling they will outlaw or highly regulate that regardless at some point anyway.

But yeah I think moving to a PoS system for crypto is still better long term no matter what. PoW is not really efficient at all nor very scalable. Like how high will the difficulty be in 10 or even 100 years from now?
 

Shmee

Memory & Storage, Graphics Cards Mod Elite Member
Super Moderator
Sep 13, 2008
7,741
2,716
146

Welp, NY (State) doesn't want crypto-mining no more.

(Just wait until they get a load of what's coming down the pike for Gamers, new PSUs that support transient wattage demands of 2400W, needed by the new 40-series GPUs with PCI-E 5.0 16-pin connectors. Some cards sport two of them!)

I should write their legislature, and inform them. They might want to put a moratorium on PC Gaming as well. (Eventually, in NYS, all Gaming will have to be done on Cell Phones, for environmental reasons, of course.)

Or maybe just blanket ban on importing PCI-E 5.0 power connector -using peripherals and components, including PSUs.
Is this actually true, or is this just a sensational youtube video? Maybe there is a dead bill in their legislature?
 

Shmee

Memory & Storage, Graphics Cards Mod Elite Member
Super Moderator
Sep 13, 2008
7,741
2,716
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Hmm, so it seems that I cannot find a whole lot of info on the bill, just that it is in progress and would be a "2 year moratorium" on mining. Sounds like there are a lot of crazy people in the legislature there. Oh well, I guess I should keep politics out of here.
 

njdevilsfan87

Platinum Member
Apr 19, 2007
2,331
251
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