The anti-crypto thread

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DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
22,065
11,693
136
Next, this really so not in my character, but I could give less than a shit about NFTs.

I honestly don't either, not in their current state. It's a curiosity at this point. Minting them costs too much and there's no clear established transfer of rights associated with the sale. Until the rights associated with holding (vs. authoring/minting) an NFT are clarified, they're useless tech demos. Cryptokitties weren't any better. And also minting fees need to come way down.
 

beginner99

Diamond Member
Jun 2, 2009
5,233
1,610
136
I honestly don't either, not in their current state. It's a curiosity at this point. Minting them costs too much and there's no clear established transfer of rights associated with the sale. Until the rights associated with holding (vs. authoring/minting) an NFT are clarified, they're useless tech demos. Cryptokitties weren't any better. And also minting fees need to come way down.

You can mint NFTs for pennies on L2 now. of course current "jpegs" isn't really the only use-case. More interesting would be stocks as NFTs for example and it's clear I mention this due to the huge market that would open.
 

BFG10K

Lifer
Aug 14, 2000
22,709
2,996
126

crashtech

Lifer
Jan 4, 2013
10,587
2,153
146
Thailand has been a military junta for a long time, and still is in all but name. So, compare and contrast fail.
Typically, authoritarian regimes are the ones that are ban-happy about everything.
 

Charmonium

Lifer
May 15, 2015
10,014
3,179
136
The "sell now" signal for me is the proliferation of "crypto funds" being advertised. It will be interesting to see how that pans out.

But considering how many people, especially boomers (at least the ones with investments), got a$$ raped by the 2008-9 crash, I'm thinking that only the hard core gamblers are going to put any significant (vis-a-vis total wealth) amount into these things. But it won't be the first time I haven't considered ALL of the relevant parameters.
 

Fenixgoon

Lifer
Jun 30, 2003
32,156
11,025
136
Every time I see "invest in crpyto" I want to hurt the person hawking it.

Literally the nature of crpyto means you should NEVER sell it, so whoever gets in first makes out like a bandit and everyone else can be screwed depending on when they get in/out.
 
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Train

Lifer
Jun 22, 2000
13,572
66
91
www.bing.com
Every time I see "invest in crpyto" I want to hurt the person hawking it.

Literally the nature of crpyto means you should NEVER sell it, so whoever gets in first makes out like a bandit and everyone else can be screwed depending on when they get in/out.
That makes no sense at all. People have sold and bought houses or cars. And people who have gotten in after that have done the same.

That's like saying only the people who made money on Apple were the ones who sold in the 80's everyone after that is a sucker. Even if you got into apple in the "WAY TOO LATE" year of 2017, just 5 years ago, you'd be up 384% right now.
 

Fenixgoon

Lifer
Jun 30, 2003
32,156
11,025
136
That makes no sense at all. People have sold and bought houses or cars. And people who have gotten in after that have done the same.

That's like saying only the people who made money on Apple were the ones who sold in the 80's everyone after that is a sucker. Even if you got into apple in the "WAY TOO LATE" year of 2017, just 5 years ago, you'd be up 384% right now.
Apple grew by changing its product line and creating new products for new markets.

Crypto coins, as a currency, are finite and grow more difficult to acquire as the network grows (or at least Bitcoin). Which means the value only increases as the network grows.
But a currency that fluctuates wildly in value is no good as a currency.
 

Train

Lifer
Jun 22, 2000
13,572
66
91
www.bing.com
Apple grew by changing its product line and creating new products for new markets.

Crypto coins, as a currency, are finite and grow more difficult to acquire as the network grows (or at least Bitcoin). Which means the value only increases as the network grows.
But a currency that fluctuates wildly in value is no good as a currency.
None of that explains why "never sell" is the only strategy.

And

the value only increases as the network grows.
But a currency that fluctuates wildly in value

pick one?
 

DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
22,065
11,693
136
BTC in particular has provided long-term growth pretty consistently. It has its boom/bust cycles, but over time, all it ever does is go up. Which is kinda sad since it sucks.
 

Fenixgoon

Lifer
Jun 30, 2003
32,156
11,025
136
None of that explains why "never sell" is the only strategy.

And




pick one?
right, i'm saying it's a speculative investment at best (really i think it's just a giant pyramid scheme). cryptocurrencies are not actually good at being currencies, because they don't hold steady values.

and the reason to "never sell" is because the value of bitcoin is essentially only going to grow, IMO, until it falls of a cliff. HARD.

1) finite coin supply
2) constant or decreasing coin release rate coupled with exponential network growth
2) progressively increasing difficulty of mining

to be useful as a currency, the number of coins in circulation needs to be modifiable, and coin release rate needs to be matched to the network size so the difficulty of mining coins ("value") is held essentially constant.

otherwise, the resources used to mine coins ("value") is going to increasing, making each new coin increasingly more valuable than the last, and not particularly useful as a currency.

why would i pay for something in 1 BTC today if it's almost mathematically guaranteed that in the future, that same 1 BTC will be more valuable because the amount of resources to mine any single BTC is dramatically greater? and why would i lend you 1 BTC today, only to be paid back in 0.1 BTC (or some arbitrary value less than 1) in the future for the same reason?
 
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njdevilsfan87

Platinum Member
Apr 19, 2007
2,331
251
126
and why would i lend you 1 BTC today, only to be paid back in 0.1 BTC (or some arbitrary value less than 1) in the future for the same reason?

That's not how it works in DeFi. If you borrow 1 BTC (or some algorithmically pegged version of it) you're paying back 1 BTC plus borrowing fees.
 

Train

Lifer
Jun 22, 2000
13,572
66
91
www.bing.com
right, i'm saying it's a speculative investment at best (really i think it's just a giant pyramid scheme). cryptocurrencies are not actually good at being currencies, because they don't hold steady values.

and the reason to "never sell" is because the value of bitcoin is essentially only going to grow, IMO, until it falls of a cliff. HARD.

1) finite coin supply
2) constant or decreasing coin release rate coupled with exponential network growth
2) progressively increasing difficulty of mining

to be useful as a currency, the number of coins in circulation needs to be modifiable, and coin release rate needs to be matched to the network size so the difficulty of mining coins ("value") is held essentially constant.

otherwise, the resources used to mine coins ("value") is going to increasing, making each new coin increasingly more valuable than the last, and not particularly useful as a currency.

why would i pay for something in 1 BTC today if it's almost mathematically guaranteed that in the future, that same 1 BTC will be more valuable because the amount of resources to mine any single BTC is dramatically greater? and why would i lend you 1 BTC today, only to be paid back in 0.1 BTC (or some arbitrary value less than 1) in the future for the same reason?
If the value only ever goes up, it makes it a great investment, not a pyramid scheme.

And you would sell because you want to buy something else. The same reason you sell any asset.