The AMD Mantle Thread

[GaiaHunter]

Because any game that doesn't use Mantle will not run well?

So basically we are being screwed by DX.

Seems a good reason to invest in new APIs.

 

[Paul98]

Thats simply a hype. The only benefit is essentially CPU due to API. But AMDs DX driver already leaves much to be desired.

As I posted earlier from BF4 mantle page.

GPU/CPU graphs are rather interesting in BF4, GPU usage gets very smooth. In the 8350+7970 in directX ms time
GPU avg: 18.55, min 15.70, max 23.93
CPU avg: 18.87, min 14. 32, max 24.66
in Mantle
GPU avg: 11.61, min 11.44, max 11.86
CPU avg: 15.08, min 12.88, max 21.86

 

[VulgarDisplay]

I find it hilarious how many people are off the slower but smoother bandwagon in the face of those frame time graphs.

I'm still waiting for minimum fps numbers to come out, but they should be massively improved.

 

[Teizo]

Well, the advantage for AMD if this is so is that it can help them with CPU sales.

Question, and this may be a dumb question this late in the game, but is Mantle for AMD GPU's only?

What I mean is...can someone take advantage of Mantle's CPU gains using an Nvidia GPU?

I ask this because like I mentioned...this could help AMD sell more CPUs and gamers could save money since the more expensive Intel CPU's won't be needed as badly.

I know AMD wants to use Mantle to help bolster GPU sales, but I wonder if they will in the future be willing to allow cross-vendor utilization...with motherboard drivers that will enable AMD CPUs to use Mantle irregardless of whatever GPU the person has.

 

[Unoid]

I wish I could throw my two 290's in my main rig and test, but I don't wanna spend the hour swapping them out of my mining rig.

 

[moonbogg]

Seems this could be great for 120hz users with dual high end cards. CPU has always been the problem there, and if Mantle lets those cards take off then that's super great. We'll have to wait and see for real though.

 

[Paul98]

I will be interested to see what sort of CPU usage we get out of 8 thread+ cpus

Also vram usage between DX and Mantle

 

[Noctifer616]

Question, and this may be a dumb question this late in the game, but is Mantle for AMD GPU's only?

What I mean is...can someone take advantage of Mantle's CPU gains using an Nvidia GPU?

I ask this because like I mentioned...this could help AMD sell more CPUs and gamers could save money since the more expensive Intel CPU's won't be needed as badly.

AMD pointed out that Mantle can run on more than GCN as long as the architecture supports the Mantle feature set (there is an abstraction layer just like in DX and OpenGL, but thinner). But it's up to Intel and NVidia to support Mantle.

 

[ASM-coder]

AMD could essentially have done in Mantle what they could have done in DX:

Then why were developers, like the guys from Dice, asking for this? Do you know something more about DX that they don't?

 

[Arkadrel]

The people that got ~25-58% faster performance outta this have to be happy.

I would consinder those amounts to be "big".

The people with fast CPUs and slow GPUs..... tough luck.

Seems like its much better to go fast GPU and slow CPU if needed.

 

[omeds]

Should be great for 120/144hz users.

 

[Imouto]

Then why were developers, like the guys from Dice, asking for this? Do you know something more about DX that they don't?

https://twitter.com/repi/status/428896915049414656

@repi Solutions that benefit all DX11 cards, like Driver Command Lists, have a bigger impact. Get AMD to implement it, for all developers!!!

@firefreak111 we support it but it is fundamentally broken in DX. check my slide #34 from 3 years ago: http://www.slideshare.net/DICEStudio/directx-11-rendering-in-battlefield-3

 

[AtenRa]

I get that, I'm talking about modern, cutting-edge games. You know, the games most of us here build our PCs to run...

Anyways, looking forward to review site results, and see how they differ from the results AMD gave.

There are lots and lots of modern games that Play just fine with $100 CPUs.

Just a few samples,

Metro Last Light, $100 CPUs are fine even with Titan
http://gamegpu.ru/images/stories/Test_GPU/Action/Metro%20Last%20Light/test/nastr/m%20proz.jpg

Tom Clancy's Splinter Cell Blacklist, $100 CPUs are fine even with Titan
http://gamegpu.ru/images/stories/Te...linter Cell Blacklist/test/Blacklist proz.jpg

F1 2013, $100 CPUs are fine even with Titan
http://gamegpu.ru/images/remote/htt...es-Test_GPU-Simulator-F1_2013-test-f1proz.jpg

Batman AO, $100 CPUs are fine even with Titan
http://gamegpu.ru/images/remote/htt...ction-Batman_Arkham_Origins-test-bao_proz.jpg

Assassins Creed Liberation, $100 CPUs are fine even with Titan
http://gamegpu.ru/images/remote/htt...ins_Creed_Liberation_HD_-test-ac_hd_proze.jpg

Actually, the games that need more than $100 CPU to be playable is less than 1%.

 

[B-Riz]

Serious questions is serious: Will Windows version (8.1 vs 7) impact performance gain or will it be comparable?

 

[PPB]

No, he is just clueless. The green camp guys had been hitting the "command lists" drum for quite some time.

Guess what, according to johan andersson, command lists are "fundamentally broken" on dx. So no way you could have done the same, even if amd implemented command lists on dx.

 

[ASM-coder]

...I wonder if they will in the future be willing to allow cross-vendor utilization...with motherboard drivers that will enable AMD CPUs to use Mantle irregardless of whatever GPU the person has.

AMD and Dice have stated it is open, and Johan(Dice) has said he hopes
others(Nvidia & Intel) will implement it.

Based on the Nvidia fan base on this thread, they have no use for it, so it probably won't happen.

 

[HurleyBird]

Ok, so here's some quick number crunching.

Single player Kaveri example

DX:
26.60ms CPU time
26.44ms GPU time
Equally CPU and GPU bound.

Mantle:
23.29ms CPU time (14.21% improvement)
22.67ms GPU time (16.63% improvement)
Slightly CPU bound

Multiplayer 7970 + FX8350 example

DX:
18.87ms CPU time
18.55ms GPU time
Equally CPU and GPU bound

Mantle:
15.08ms CPU time (25.13% improvement)
11.61ms GPU time (59.78% improvement) !!!
Massively CPU bound

Single player 290X CF + 3970X example

DX:
13.24ms CPU time
18.38 / 2 = 9.19 ms GPU time
Massively CPU bound

Mantle:
8.38ms CPU time (57.99% improvement) !!!
14.02 / 2 = 7.01ms GPU time (31.10% improvement)
Slightly CPU bound

Interesting to say the least.

 

[ASM-coder]

https://twitter.com/repi/status/428896915049414656

Exactly. An interesting slide presentation from 3 years ago. Thanks.
One of the interesting bullets...
>BF3 is a big title - Will drive OS & HW adaptation.

I would say that BF4 is an even bigger title. So the "fat tail" of
adaptation is gotten even bigger.

 

[moonbogg]

Should be great for 120/144hz users.

Yeah, I can't believe people don't appear more exited about this actually. I find this possibility to be fantastic if it pans out, and according to the numbers it should. This could be the perfect solution for 120+hz high end users. If it works like they say, then AMD needs to get a freesync solution going because that would be perfection.

 

[cmdrdredd]

I'm not from the states, so I don't pay the mining tax and neither does the rest of the world.

Are your prices in line with the US before the "mining tax"? Also I seem to remember that some of the world doesn't have real access to computer hardware in their home country no? Like some people have to order from elsewhere? Probably a small percentage.

I am not really familiar with how supply and pricing is in Europe for example.

 

[Carfax83]

Here's a screenshot comparison on my rig to the example DICE/AMD gave on the battlelog website.

First off, here are the examples AMD/DICE gave, which were run on a 3960x and 290x CF rig at 1080p ultra:

Mantle off:

Mantle on:

And now here's mine, run at 1080p ultra. I have no idea why my screenshot is so clear, whilst AMD's so blurry. Motion blur is set to default, which is 50%. CPU is overclocked to 4.5ghz (although I'm pretty sure it wasn't running full speed) and GTX 770 SLI 4GB GPUs were at stock clocks, which is 1241 with boost. If you notice, it says I'm running Direct3D 11 even though I'm on Windows 8.1 Pro:

 

[7stars]

 

[tonyfreak215]

Your CPU is 1 GHZ faster, that would make pretty big difference.

Also what MSAA? They were running at 4X.

Also try maxing out the blur (to bring it to the same look)

 

[DiogoDX]

I will be interested to see what sort of CPU usage we get out of 8 thread+ cpus

Also vram usage between DX and Mantle

This first path seems focusing on CPU optimizations. GPU side like crossfire and memory will come later.

This patch is the first release of our Mantle renderer. We will continue to add improvements, based on your feedback, in upcoming Battlefield 4 updates as well. In particular we plan to focus next on adding multi-GPU frame pacing and a few additional GPU performance and memory optimizations.

http://battlelog.battlefield.com/bf4/news/view/bf4-mantle-live

 

[Carfax83]

The screenshots I posted were very telling, and just goes to show how under optimized AMD's drivers are when running the Direct3D 11.1 path.

Even my GTX 770s, which aren't even top of the line, outperformed the 290x CF rig. Only with Mantle do they offer comparable performance, and it's not like they are a huge leap over mine anyway.

Basically, this just goes to show what I, and others have been saying is true. AMD's drivers have inferior CPU utilization.. It's not that the GPUs aren't capable, it's the drivers which aren't properly optimized for multicore processors.

That's the only way I can explain such a massive difference..