The aftermath of a terrible incident...what to do?

[techguy3]

Two weeks ago someone very close in our immediate family decided to take their own life.

I don't want to get into the details of who, what, how, why, but I think the "why" can be intelligently predicted or assumed following the aftermath.

Checking through the deceased person's mail, bills, credit card and bank statements, we found that the person was in a significant amount of debt for several months. The deceased person even had a letter from some lawyer threatening to sue if the money was not paid (this was for a bill that went unpaid for over half a year). The total amount of money owed is an estimated ~40K, mostly spread between the bank, credit card company, an unpaid student loan, and other individuals. We managed to trace almost all the money and unsurprisingly, most of it was tied to gambling sites (poker, casino, sports) local and online.

Now my question is, what happens to all this unpaid debt? Do the surrounding family members have to pay it all off for the deceased person? ~40K is not a joke, it is more than an average person's yearly income. I barely make enough money to support myself and now this shit comes out of nowhere. What is going to happen? Are more lawyers going to start sending us letters? Someone please tell me what's going to happen...

 

[iamwiz82]

Depends on if the person was married. IIRC, if the (single) person's estate could not cover teh debt, it dies as well.

 

[akshatp]

Hmm.. Well if the deceased was the only responsible party to the debt, I would assume they would go after any assets he/she possessed before death. I dont tihnk they can go after family unless their was some co-signing of loans/cc or sometihng to that affect

 

[lizardboy]

Unless you co-signed on a loan, generally you are not responsible for someone else's debt. But it depends on the family situation, the Wife may be liable for debts incurred by her Husband in certain instances. Also depends on the state (community property or separate property). More information needed.

 

[silverpig]

Sorry to hear about your loss

 

[MotionMan]

I believe that, if the deceased had any assets, they would be used to pay as much of the debt as possible. Whatever is left over is SOL.

Sorry for your loss.

MotionMan

 

[IGBT]

..they may go after the deceased estate. they can get a court judgement to lean all assets.

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: IGBT
..they may go after the deceased estate. they can get a court judgement to lean all assets.

Yeah, so relation and living situation is real important. If the deceased was truly on their own in every definition, by every means with no legal ties (marriage) then the debt goes with them.

Sorry for your loss and welcome to ATOT.

But if it was your brother living at home, then the debt goes to your family.

 

[PlasmaBomb]

Sorry to hear about your loss

 

[Caecus Veritas]

Originally posted by: techguy3
the bank, credit card company, an unpaid student loan, and other individuals.

Assuming that he/she did not leave any significant assets:
banks - i imagine auto and/or mortgage? they can only go after signers of the loan and only the property in question.
credit cards - only signers.
student loan - only signers.
individuals - private notes? again, only signers. don't let them tell you otherwise.

unless your family members have signatures on any of the debts, you should be fine.

 

[Ronstang]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: IGBT
..they may go after the deceased estate. they can get a court judgement to lean all assets.

Yeah, so relation and living situation is real important. If the deceased was truly on their own in every definition, by every means with no legal ties (marriage) then the debt goes with them.

Sorry for your loss and welcome to ATOT.

But if it was your brother living at home, then the debt goes to your family.

That is not true. If old enough to incur the debt and not married with no cosigners on any outstanding loans the debt dies. It does not transfer to other members of the family due to living situation. The person who signs the line is responsible for all the debts you describe. DO NOT let the creditors bully you into thinking otherwise. If they continue to hassle you tell them you will notify the authorities and press charges for harassment if they continue to bother you.

 

[Muadib]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: IGBT

But if it was your brother living at home, then the debt goes to your family.

Really? That wasn't the case when my brother died. He was staying with my mom for a year before he passed. She sent his creditors his death certificate, and that was that. Maybe it differs by state?

Sorry for your loss, techguy3.

 

[kranky]

Originally posted by: Ronstang

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: IGBT
..they may go after the deceased estate. they can get a court judgement to lean all assets.

Yeah, so relation and living situation is real important. If the deceased was truly on their own in every definition, by every means with no legal ties (marriage) then the debt goes with them.

Sorry for your loss and welcome to ATOT.

But if it was your brother living at home, then the debt goes to your family.

That is not true. If old enough to incur the debt and not married with no cosigners on any outstanding loans the debt dies. It does not transfer to other members of the family due to living situation. The person who signs the line is responsible for all the debts you describe. DO NOT let the creditors bully you into thinking otherwise. If they continue to hassle you tell them you will notify the authorities and press charges for harassment if they continue to bother you.

QFT. Creditors will try to bully the family into paying the debts even if they are not liable. Generally, a certified copy of the death certificate sent to the creditor will settle it.

And I am sorry for your loss. That's a tough thing to deal with.

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: Muadib

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: IGBT

But if it was your brother living at home, then the debt goes to your family.

Really? That wasn't the case when my brother died. He was staying with my mom for a year before he passed. She sent his creditors his death certificate, and that was that. Maybe it differs by state?

Sorry for your loss, techguy3.

Sorry, confusing tax liabilities with others. Not an expert.

 

[lizardboy]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: Muadib

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: IGBT

But if it was your brother living at home, then the debt goes to your family.

Really? That wasn't the case when my brother died. He was staying with my mom for a year before he passed. She sent his creditors his death certificate, and that was that. Maybe it differs by state?

Sorry for your loss, techguy3.

Sorry, confusing tax liabilities with others. Not an expert.

Why would the parents be liable for their son's tax (presumably FIT)?

 

[skyking]

Here is one other small bit of advice: We recently lost a friend here in Washington state who had considerable debt also.
Although we were very curious about the contents of his safety deposit box, our attorneys advised us against that.
If you get the necessary paperwork to get into that, you open yourself up to creditors. Who knows what assets are in a safety deposit box, and the creditors are first in line for that.

 

[Caecus Veritas]

Originally posted by: skyking
Here is one other small bit of advice: We recently lost a friend here in Washington state who had considerable debt also.
Although we were very curious about the contents of his safety deposit box, our attorneys advised us against that.
If you get the necessary paperwork to get into that, you open yourself up to creditors. Who knows what assets are in a safety deposit box, and the creditors are first in line for that.

that's a very good point.

 

[Gothgar]

Originally posted by: skyking
Here is one other small bit of advice: We recently lost a friend here in Washington state who had considerable debt also.
Although we were very curious about the contents of his safety deposit box, our attorneys advised us against that.
If you get the necessary paperwork to get into that, you open yourself up to creditors. Who knows what assets are in a safety deposit box, and the creditors are first in line for that.

damn.... that curiosity would fucking kill me though!

 

[skyking]

Originally posted by: Gothgar

Originally posted by: skyking
Here is one other small bit of advice: We recently lost a friend here in Washington state who had considerable debt also.
Although we were very curious about the contents of his safety deposit box, our attorneys advised us against that.
If you get the necessary paperwork to get into that, you open yourself up to creditors. Who knows what assets are in a safety deposit box, and the creditors are first in line for that.

damn.... that curiosity would fucking kill me though!

Oh it is. His mom knows of several pieces of jewlery that are missing and sure to be in there. My wife would like some of that jewelry for the sentimental value of it.


OP, I am very sorry for your loss.

 

[techguy3]

Thanks for the words everyone. This person was independent but lived with our parents. I don't think anything was co-signed. We will double check. For now I guess we will just sit and wait and see what happens.

 

[drinkmorejava]

Wait, so the safety deposit box just sits there for eternity. I don't get it.

 

[hellokeith]

As others have said, if this person was an independent adult, no one other than a spouse or equivalent can be held responsible.

Whatever you do, do not agree to anything if contacted by credtiors / lawyers / agents, etc. If *you* agree to a "one-time disount" or a "special settlement", then *you* become responsible for the debt.

Unfortunately there may be many of these types of collection communications, some obvious and some sly, but utlimately the estate is responsible, and once probate has passed, they cannot continue to attempt collection.

 

[techguy3]

Originally posted by: hellokeith
As others have said, if this person was an independent adult, no one other than a spouse or equivalent can be held responsible.

Whatever you do, do not agree to anything if contacted by credtiors / lawyers / agents, etc. If *you* agree to a "one-time disount" or a "special settlement", then *you* become responsible for the debt.

Unfortunately there may be many of these types of collection communications, some obvious and some sly, but utlimately the estate is responsible, and once probate has passed, they cannot continue to attempt collection.

I'll have to tell my mother that, she is one that can be easily intimidated and manipulated and I'm afraid the creditors/lawyers/agents might target her for that. Even one of our family friends might come after us (I'm guessing) because apparently he lent out $3000 - but there's no signed evidence that the transaction ever happened so who knows what's going to happen.

 

[D1gger]

I have just been through this with a family member. I was executor of his estate, and he was indebted by about the same amount. The rules may differ in the US than Canada, where I am, but once all of my brother's assets were liquidated (essentially zero), his debts were over $40,000. Upon notification to each of the banks/credit cards/vendors that the estate was insolvent, and providing them with a copy of the death certificate, they have all confirmed that the debt has been written off and they will no longer pursue anyone. A couple of them did try beyond the first notification to collect, but by being firm and consistent they have all agreed there will be no further demands for payment.

Unless someone has cosigned the loan agreements there should be no responsibility for your family to repay these debts.

 

[skyking]

Originally posted by: techguy3

Originally posted by: hellokeith
As others have said, if this person was an independent adult, no one other than a spouse or equivalent can be held responsible.

Whatever you do, do not agree to anything if contacted by credtiors / lawyers / agents, etc. If *you* agree to a "one-time disount" or a "special settlement", then *you* become responsible for the debt.

Unfortunately there may be many of these types of collection communications, some obvious and some sly, but utlimately the estate is responsible, and once probate has passed, they cannot continue to attempt collection.

I'll have to tell my mother that, she is one that can be easily intimidated and manipulated and I'm afraid the creditors/lawyers/agents might target her for that. Even one of our family friends might come after us (I'm guessing) because apparently he lent out $3000 - but there's no signed evidence that the transaction ever happened so who knows what's going to happen.

One way to help her out is to tell that no one can talk to her about it, they must talk to you.
That would help her so much.