The 85 billion a month QE in perspective

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piasabird

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
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60
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I was at a site earlier that had Robert Reich the economist on and he says one of the problems in this country is the wealth of the country lies in the hands of the 1 and 2 percenters so much that there is not enough money in the hands of the lower middle class that can purchase goods. He was hinting that if the 1 and 2 percenters held less wealth they would make more money. Interesting concept.

http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/dail...y-economic-growth-robert-reich-142150436.html

In other words, if the little people had more money we could make more goods and sell more goods. This seems to make sense until you stop to realize that most goods are coming from China!
 
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mikegg

Platinum Member
Jan 30, 2010
2,058
601
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QE inflated the stock and housing market. Housing prices increased by nearly 50% in the San Francisco Bay Area - meaning my money is just worth 50% less if I want to buy a house.
 
Nov 30, 2006
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I was at a site earlier that had birch the economist on and he says one of the problems in this country is the wealth of the country lies in the hands of the 1 and 2 percenters so much that there is not enough money in the hands of the lower middle class that can purchase goods. He was hinting that if the 1 and 2 percenters held less wealth they would make more money. Interesting concept.
The real problem is poverty...and taxing the crap out of the wealthy isn't going to do much to fix that.
 

piasabird

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
17,168
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I am nut much above the poverty level. I know a lot about poverty. I work at a college and have scanned a lot of Financial Aid Paperwork. Poverty is all around me. I see that a lot of poverty is caused by the government. By giving people money to have children as single parents we are just propagating more poverty. Families would be better off with 2 parents both morally and financially.
 

gingermeggs

Golden Member
Dec 22, 2008
1,157
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We all know that the federal reserve has been buying $85 billion every month is what it calls quantitative easing (QE).

Lets put that $85 billion in perspective.

Aircraft carriers

85 billion would buy 6.5 super aircraft carriers. The USS Gerald R. Ford (CVN-78) currently under construction cost $13.5 billion.

The United States has 10 aircraft carriers in active duty. Three more are in the planning phase or under construction.

With just 2 months of this quantitative easing we could double the number of aircraft carriers. Which would provide thousands of jobs for close to 3 decades.

Three gorges dam

Three gorges dam, the largest construction project in the world only cost $26 billion in US dollars, and took 9 years to complete.

With just one month of QE spending we could build 3 three gorges dams.

A documentary on netflix about the three gorges dam said 40,000 people were employed to build the dam.

One month of QE could employee 120,000 people for 9 years, have some spare change left over, and build 3 super dams at the same time.

Are those figures;
120,000 people paid $8/hr?

Do you really think that aircraft carrier only cost 13.5billion dollars????

Bye bye fat American lifestyle!

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/china/2013-10/15/c_132801626.htm
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
111,891
31,410
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We all know that the federal reserve has been buying $85 billion every month is what it calls quantitative easing (QE).

Lets put that $85 billion in perspective.

Aircraft carriers

85 billion would buy 6.5 super aircraft carriers. The USS Gerald R. Ford (CVN-78) currently under construction cost $13.5 billion.

The United States has 10 aircraft carriers in active duty. Three more are in the planning phase or under construction.

With just 2 months of this quantitative easing we could double the number of aircraft carriers. Which would provide thousands of jobs for close to 3 decades.

Three gorges dam

Three gorges dam, the largest construction project in the world only cost $26 billion in US dollars, and took 9 years to complete.

With just one month of QE spending we could build 3 three gorges dams.

A documentary on netflix about the three gorges dam said 40,000 people were employed to build the dam.

One month of QE could employee 120,000 people for 9 years, have some spare change left over, and build 3 super dams at the same time.

Do we need 7 more aircraft carriers? no

Do we need 3, let alone 1, Three Gorges damn? Oh, hell no--consider the human displacement, death, and environmental disaster that was required to build that thing.

Anyway those are somewhat illuminating, if not very bad comparisons. In terms of actually putting that money into infrastructure and creating public works projects, I agree wtih the assessment.....but then that is FDR supercommie talk, and we can't have suggestions like that. nosir.
 

Texashiker

Lifer
Dec 18, 2010
18,811
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Anyway those are somewhat illuminating, if not very bad comparisons. In terms of actually putting that money into infrastructure and creating public works projects, I agree wtih the assessment.....but then that is FDR supercommie talk, and we can't have suggestions like that. nosir.

Then give me another comparison.

The amount of money the fed is dumping into the economy every couple of months is without comparison.

~ EDIT ~

How about this,

at 85 billion a month for a year, that is enough money to build the complete interstate highway system twice, and have some spare change left over.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interstate_Highway_System

Estimated cost of the interstate highway system was $425 billion (in 2006 dollars)

85 billion X 12 months = 1.02 trillion
 
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Attic

Diamond Member
Jan 9, 2010
4,282
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What if we consider that due to the Fed's action that tax payers are being bent over a little bit less hard when being siphoned of their life blood so that the ultra rich may be doused with giddily glee in the sacrifice?

Consider interest rate 4% on the national debt without Fed involvement. That 4% is stapled to the back of American Taxpayers and it largely goes to feed the owners of the debt who also own the monetary system. The Fed has effectively taken down the interest rate below 2% and if continued may get it around 1% in future years. Can't this be argued as a force that helps curb redistribution of wealth? In this example consider if in some effect the Fed is printing money that taxpayers don't have to cough up. We know the system is itself highly skewed for the wealthy, parts of what the Fed does may tip the scales a bit. Perhaps the spread between 4 and 1 percent interest rates on 20trillion of national debt can go to public works at some point instead of to the pockets of the owners of the debt (china included).

Texas, it appears what you consistently are drawing towards is how incredibly wasteful government is. How can such substantial money as what the Fed is coughing up each month not be showing a material difference in public works and infrastructure??? It's a shame, but yea, it highlights how wonky our government and monetary system are. The 85bil of conjured money doesn't have a lot to show for it, but the reason is that it goes to grease the incredibly inefficient gears of our monetary system and theres nothing left for massive public works. I think most folks agree that infrastructure and public works (not california train to nowhere type BS boondoggle stuff) is good. The Fed *can* print it, additional monies, out of nowhere to pay for that stuff. Congress would have to allocate additional spending for it. Congress probably soon will do just that. So the fed instead of printing 85 bil a month would have to print 85 bil a month to keep things running, plus an additional 20bil a month to pay for additional public works. A lot of keynsians argue exactly for this (and of course more), the massive vig in this thinking that goes unaccounted for by them is just how little would actually get done by the government (this inefficiency being a substantial beggining to inflation that burdens everybody) if it were allocated an additional 20bil a month. One of the lynchpins of failed keynsian economic thought that looks good in a model but not in the real world is just how monstrously inefficient the government is with money. This inefficiency requires constantly greater sums of money to pay for on a compounding and self feeding basis,... government inefficiency breeds more inefficiency and it's very expensive to pay for. Few get that this inefficiency gets, in effect, paid for by things like 85 bil of printed money each month and additional deficit spending. Fewer get that the 85 billion of printed money is, in part, a transfer of wealth from every American to the government and banking sector.

It is not by chance that we are at 17trillion+ of national debt, it won't be by chance that we get to 40trillion within 10-15 years. In 2004 few dreamed we'd be close to 17trillion of debt in 2013. Takes a lot of money to keep feeding a growing beast, it's key to realize the money doesn't represent anything other than control over the current setup, the money will be conjured and wasted/spent as needed. They key when we get to 40 trillion will to be ensure that gas is at 8-10 bux a gallon and that average pay is at 80-100k (with current tax rates lightly changed) and everything else much higher in price to offset the burden of debt to GDP. There is high probability there will be additional consumption taxes by that point given the power such policy grants to control/contain over 40 trillion of debt service costs in a rising cost of goods monetary system.


Cliffs: Quality of living will go down unless something fundamental changes. Which is I think Texas's other trajectory of his argument.
 
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Texashiker

Lifer
Dec 18, 2010
18,811
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Texas, it appears what you consistently are drawing towards is how incredible wasteful government is. How can such substantial money as what the Fed is coughing up each month not be showing a material difference in public works and infrastructure??? It's a shame, but yea, it highlights how wonky our government and monetary system are.

That money belongs to the people. But rather than using the money to create jobs, or improve infrastructure, the fed is buying home mortgagees?

something just does not add up.

What could they possibly be buying?

Is our economy in that bad of a shape that it needs such huge injections of cash every month?
 

Spungo

Diamond Member
Jul 22, 2012
3,217
2
81
QE inflated the stock and housing market. Housing prices increased by nearly 50% in the San Francisco Bay Area - meaning my money is just worth 50% less if I want to buy a house.

Inflation has detrimental effects on the lower and middle class, but the problem you're seeing is mostly because San Francisco is infested with retards.
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/07/opinion/king-of-my-castle-yeah-right.html
I’ve recently joined the ranks of San Francisco landlords who have decided that it’s better to keep an apartment empty than to lease it to tenants. Together, we have left vacant about 10,600 rental units. That’s about five percent of the city’s total — or enough space to house up to 30,000 people in a city that barely tops 800,000.

The government and fed stimulus seems to be horribly mismanaged. The people in charge fundamentally do not understand what creates wealth. The country needs to be making things or providing services for the rest of the world. We can't just import everything and give absolutely nothing in return. We're setting the house on fire to stay warm in winter. Warren Buffet's parable of Squanderville vs Thriftville is starting to take on new meaning now that foreigners are buying American assets.
video of said parable
news - Squanderville sells Chase Manhattan Plaza to the Chinese
 
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rommelrommel

Diamond Member
Dec 7, 2002
4,429
3,213
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Just for the sake of the discussion, ultimately the plan is to replace all of the current fleet with the Gerald R. Ford class. There's no plan to have 13 or more carriers in service... 10 total. New commisions will replace decommissioned carriers from the Nimitz class.


Are those figures;
120,000 people paid $8/hr?

Do you really think that aircraft carrier only cost 13.5billion dollars????

Bye bye fat American lifestyle!

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/china/2013-10/15/c_132801626.htm

Do you really think that China is all that better off? Maybe they're 50 years behind the USA, but if your economy is based on making useless shit I doubt it's going to turn out all that much better in the long run.