The 3,000 Mile Oil Change Myth

[boomerang]

This subject is brought up all the time here.

Watch, comprehend and save money.

http://media.medialink.com/WebNR.aspx?story=35261

 

[Zenmervolt]

The media clip may not be, but the topic is a repost of a repost of a repost of a repost.

My own position remains thus: For most street cars (non-turbocharged and liquid cooled), using conventional oil changed every 5,000 to 7,500 miles will let an engine last essentially indefinitely. However, shorter intervals and/or using synthetic (or synthetic blend) oil will not harm an engine at all and are, relatively speaking, inexpensive.

ZV

 

[mooseracing]

Originally posted by: boomerang


Watch, comprehend and save money.

Comprehend by getting an oil analysis done, there is no number that works for every vehicle. some just produce more acid and by products in the oil then others.

And not to mention the video was from GM, with their crappy oil life system that I've seen go over 10k miles on dino before the light even thinks about coming on. A computer that reads how you drive can't tell what acids and other debris are floating in your oil that doesn't get caught by the filter. It's just retarded to think it can.

 

[JulesMaximus]

I go with what the manufacturer of my car recommends, not what the CA waste management board says.

 

[boomerang]

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink.

I thought maybe we could finally put this topic to bed, but alas, it appears not.

Carry on as you have been.

 

[GTaudiophile]

My dad has been changing oil ever 3K miles on all his cars...and his 1997 RAV4 is approaching 300,000 miles on the car and MPG is still around 25-30 at 11 years old.

Point is, it runs great. He swears by the 3K change. I have no reason to believe it's not a good idea.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: boomerang
You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink.

I thought maybe we could finally put this topic to bed, but alas, it appears not.

Carry on as you have been.

A couple of things:

1) California Waste Management has exactly zero incentive to see cars last a long time. In fact, they have an incentive to push measures that cause cars to be disposed of approximately every 10 years so that they can artificially push old cars into the junkyard and force people to buy new cars with more restrictive pollution controls. The absolute last thing that CA wants is for cars to last 25 years and get to the point where are exempt from emissions testing.

2) GM only has an incentive for cars to last through the warranty period. After that, they don't care whether the car keeps running or not. Their recommendations are in GM's best interest, which is not maximum lifespan for the vehicle, it's simply to get the vehicle through the end of the warranty period and to reduce costs for the original owner, who probably isn't going to keep the car for more than 75,000 miles.

While changing the oil every 3,000 miles may not help, it cannot hurt.

ZV

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
My dad has been changing oil ever 3K miles on all his cars...and his 1997 RAV4 is approaching 300,000 miles on the car and MPG is still around 25-30 at 11 years old.

Point is, it runs great. He swears by the 3K change. I have no reason to believe it's not a good idea.

Except the total waste of resources and a lot of the reason oil is depleting so fast.

There is no owner's manual that states a 3,000 mile change interval for any normal production car. Most are over double that for heavy duty cycles.

I can't hurt the car really, but the environment definitely.

Prior to 10 or so years ago people got oil changes every 7500-10k miles and cars were lasting 200k miles

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

2) GM only has an incentive for cars to last through the warranty period. After that, they don't care whether the car keeps running or not. Their recommendations are in GM's best interest, which is not maximum lifespan for the vehicle, it's simply to get the vehicle through the end of the warranty period and to reduce costs for the original owner, who probably isn't going to keep the car for more than 75,000 miles.

except they COULD be making money with a quicker change interval since a lot have new cars maintained by the dealership.

 

[Throckmorton]

Originally posted by: alkemyst

Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
My dad has been changing oil ever 3K miles on all his cars...and his 1997 RAV4 is approaching 300,000 miles on the car and MPG is still around 25-30 at 11 years old.

Point is, it runs great. He swears by the 3K change. I have no reason to believe it's not a good idea.

Except the total waste of resources and a lot of the reason oil is depleting so fast.

There is no owner's manual that states a 3,000 mile change interval for any normal production car. Most are over double that for heavy duty cycles.

I can't hurt the car really, but the environment definitely.

Prior to 10 or so years ago people got oil changes every 7500-10k miles and cars were lasting 200k miles

Car oil changes would have a significant impact on crude oil use. Every time you fill up a gas tank, you're putting in 20 gallons out of a barrel of crude, and that's about once every 400 miles. An oil change takes 1-1.5 gallons out of a barrel of crude, and considering that's once every 3000-6000 miles, it means nothing.

 

[Bignate603]

Originally posted by: Throckmorton

Originally posted by: alkemyst

Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
My dad has been changing oil ever 3K miles on all his cars...and his 1997 RAV4 is approaching 300,000 miles on the car and MPG is still around 25-30 at 11 years old.

Point is, it runs great. He swears by the 3K change. I have no reason to believe it's not a good idea.

Except the total waste of resources and a lot of the reason oil is depleting so fast.

There is no owner's manual that states a 3,000 mile change interval for any normal production car. Most are over double that for heavy duty cycles.

I can't hurt the car really, but the environment definitely.

Prior to 10 or so years ago people got oil changes every 7500-10k miles and cars were lasting 200k miles

Car oil changes would have a significant impact on crude oil use. Every time you fill up a gas tank, you're putting in 20 gallons out of a barrel of crude, and that's about once every 400 miles. An oil change takes 1-1.5 gallons out of a barrel of crude, and considering that's once every 3000-6000 miles, it means nothing.

1.5 x 200 million vehicles makes a difference.

 

[QurazyQuisp]

Originally posted by: Bignate603

Originally posted by: Throckmorton

Originally posted by: alkemyst

Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
My dad has been changing oil ever 3K miles on all his cars...and his 1997 RAV4 is approaching 300,000 miles on the car and MPG is still around 25-30 at 11 years old.

Point is, it runs great. He swears by the 3K change. I have no reason to believe it's not a good idea.

Except the total waste of resources and a lot of the reason oil is depleting so fast.

There is no owner's manual that states a 3,000 mile change interval for any normal production car. Most are over double that for heavy duty cycles.

I can't hurt the car really, but the environment definitely.

Prior to 10 or so years ago people got oil changes every 7500-10k miles and cars were lasting 200k miles

Car oil changes would have a significant impact on crude oil use. Every time you fill up a gas tank, you're putting in 20 gallons out of a barrel of crude, and that's about once every 400 miles. An oil change takes 1-1.5 gallons out of a barrel of crude, and considering that's once every 3000-6000 miles, it means nothing.

1.5 x 200 million vehicles makes a difference.

200 million * 20 makes a bigger difference.

 

[randomlinh]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt
While changing the oil every 3,000 miles may not help, it cannot hurt.

ZV

my wallet begs to differ.. even if it's not much =P

 

[IronWing]

Originally posted by: alkemyst

Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
My dad has been changing oil ever 3K miles on all his cars...and his 1997 RAV4 is approaching 300,000 miles on the car and MPG is still around 25-30 at 11 years old.

Point is, it runs great. He swears by the 3K change. I have no reason to believe it's not a good idea.

Except the total waste of resources and a lot of the reason oil is depleting so fast.

There is no owner's manual that states a 3,000 mile change interval for any normal production car. Most are over double that for heavy duty cycles.

I can't hurt the car really, but the environment definitely.

Prior to 10 or so years ago people got oil changes every 7500-10k miles and cars were lasting 200k miles

My owner's manual says 3k oil changes. The 1988 Olds currently has 271k miles and runs like a top (kind of wobbles from side to side).

I understand that advances in engine design and oil allow for longer oil changes with newer cars but I can tell when the oil needs changing from engine behavior and for most of the cars I've driven 4k was the limit. The 06 Silverado I drive at work can run about 5k between changes but that's about it.

I've been reading up on Mini Coopers, thinking about one as a replacement for the Olds. Mini offers free oil changes for the first 36k miles. Sounds good until I read the recommended oil change interval which is 15k miles. Seems like a good way to drum up service business after the warranty expires.

 

[Bignate603]

Originally posted by: QurazyQuisp

Originally posted by: Bignate603

Originally posted by: Throckmorton

Originally posted by: alkemyst

Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
My dad has been changing oil ever 3K miles on all his cars...and his 1997 RAV4 is approaching 300,000 miles on the car and MPG is still around 25-30 at 11 years old.

Point is, it runs great. He swears by the 3K change. I have no reason to believe it's not a good idea.

Except the total waste of resources and a lot of the reason oil is depleting so fast.

There is no owner's manual that states a 3,000 mile change interval for any normal production car. Most are over double that for heavy duty cycles.

I can't hurt the car really, but the environment definitely.

Prior to 10 or so years ago people got oil changes every 7500-10k miles and cars were lasting 200k miles

Car oil changes would have a significant impact on crude oil use. Every time you fill up a gas tank, you're putting in 20 gallons out of a barrel of crude, and that's about once every 400 miles. An oil change takes 1-1.5 gallons out of a barrel of crude, and considering that's once every 3000-6000 miles, it means nothing.

1.5 x 200 million vehicles makes a difference.

200 million * 20 makes a bigger difference.

I'm not arguing with that, but you take what you can get.

 

[thedarkwolf]

Well we have the stupid oil thread and the car break in thread. Now all we need is somebody to start yet another thread about engine braking vs brakes thread and we will have the top 3 most annoying threads of the car forum all going at the same time.

 

[desy]

Dino every 6K
Now synth every 15K
Been doing that for 23 yrs run all my cars till 200k, never had engine problems with any of them.

 

[Thump553]

I've changed my oil every 5K (picked because it's easy to remember) for 35+ years now and have never, ever had an oil related problem with a car. And my father did the same since after WWII with the same results.

Read your owner's manual and follow what it says. If the information they published was incorrect there would have been major class action suits a long time ago.

The 3k mile is a common myth, spread by the quiki oil change places, who certainly have an incentive to get you in ASAP.

The only possible time to vary from the 5K schedule would be for a car that is rarely used, then you change it on a time schedule.

 

[HannibalX]

My 2004 Lincoln LS with the 3.9L DOHC V8 (280HP) has an oil life monitoring system (along with a ton of other cool features the onboard computer keeps track of). I change the oil when the system recomends it. You can view a percentage of "oil life" remaining as well. A lot of newer mid-range cars are getting these features now days which I think is wonderful.

I use Royal Purple in my LS8.

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: Bignate603

Originally posted by: QurazyQuisp

Originally posted by: Bignate603

Originally posted by: Throckmorton

Originally posted by: alkemyst

Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
My dad has been changing oil ever 3K miles on all his cars...and his 1997 RAV4 is approaching 300,000 miles on the car and MPG is still around 25-30 at 11 years old.

Point is, it runs great. He swears by the 3K change. I have no reason to believe it's not a good idea.

Except the total waste of resources and a lot of the reason oil is depleting so fast.

There is no owner's manual that states a 3,000 mile change interval for any normal production car. Most are over double that for heavy duty cycles.

I can't hurt the car really, but the environment definitely.

Prior to 10 or so years ago people got oil changes every 7500-10k miles and cars were lasting 200k miles

Car oil changes would have a significant impact on crude oil use. Every time you fill up a gas tank, you're putting in 20 gallons out of a barrel of crude, and that's about once every 400 miles. An oil change takes 1-1.5 gallons out of a barrel of crude, and considering that's once every 3000-6000 miles, it means nothing.

1.5 x 200 million vehicles makes a difference.

200 million * 20 makes a bigger difference.

I'm not arguing with that, but you take what you can get.

I don't get what Stimey the Math Genius is trying to prove. When you have an oil SHORTAGE (supposedly anyway) anything that could save some is important.

I don't think any engine expert even stands behind 3k mile oil changes for the normal car.

I don't know of many on the 911 Porsche boards following this either. 12 quarts of synthetic a pop.

 

[boomerang]

The whole point of my post was to try to present something other than the usual arguments presented here. But they just won't die.

I tried to approach this from a financial perspective and it appears I've failed. Kudos to those that pointed out the aspects of this as they relate to helping us end our dependence on foreign oil. Thanks to those that used some simple math to point out how truly large a problem this is.

You conspiracy theorists, analytical types, gut feeling folks, Zen car owners and daddy worshipers carry on as you have been. Check your mailbox this holiday season for your greeting card from the Saudis.

I'm sorry I brought this all up yet again - truly. Forgive me my trespasses.

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
My dad has been changing oil ever 3K miles on all his cars...and his 1997 RAV4 is approaching 300,000 miles on the car and MPG is still around 25-30 at 11 years old.

Point is, it runs great. He swears by the 3K change. I have no reason to believe it's not a good idea.

If he jumped up and down after each oil change he may swear by that, but that is anecdotal and not causal. 3k really is, by the account of any oil specialist or car owner's manual, a waste of money!

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: alkemyst

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

2) GM only has an incentive for cars to last through the warranty period. After that, they don't care whether the car keeps running or not. Their recommendations are in GM's best interest, which is not maximum lifespan for the vehicle, it's simply to get the vehicle through the end of the warranty period and to reduce costs for the original owner, who probably isn't going to keep the car for more than 75,000 miles.

except they COULD be making money with a quicker change interval since a lot have new cars maintained by the dealership.

Dealerships are very rarely (if ever) company owned. GM corporate doesn't give two shits about whether dealer service departments are making money since GM corporate doesn't own those dealer service departments and doesn't profit from them.

ZV

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: boomerang
The whole point of my post was to try to present something other than the usual arguments presented here. But they just won't die.

I tried to approach this from a financial perspective and it appears I've failed. Kudos to those that pointed out the aspects of this as they relate to helping us end our dependence on foreign oil. Thanks to those that used some simple math to point out how truly large a problem this is.

You conspiracy theorists, analytical types, gut feeling folks, Zen car owners and daddy worshipers carry on as you have been. Check your mailbox this holiday season for your greeting card from the Saudis.

I'm sorry I brought this all up yet again - truly. Forgive me my trespasses.

Another couple of things:

1) No-one disputes the fact that it costs more to change the oil more frequently. Some people just don't care. If John Doe wants to change his oil every 500 miles, and can afford to do so, then that's his prerogative. Hell, even if he wants to change it every 5 miles, it's no concern of yours. Using phrases like, "Watch, comprehend" and, "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink" is not a good way to get an audience behind you. It presents you as antagonistic from the get-go. The overall impression given by your posts is that you wish to dictate what choices other people are allowed to make.

2) If someone else doesn't care about the effect that their frequent oil changes have on our dependence on foreign oil, that too is no concern of yours. You do not have the right to dictate other people's actions.

ZV

 

[mooseracing]

Originally posted by: Thump553
I've changed my oil every 5K (picked because it's easy to remember) for 35+ years now and have never, ever had an oil related problem with a car. And my father did the same since after WWII with the same results.

I know people that haven't been to the doctor in over 10yrs and I know some that go every year. They're doing fine right now to. It will catch up to them more likely in the end but most people don't care when it comes to the car as long as they get at least 100k out of it.

How do you know you didn't have an oil related problem? What was the specs on your main and rod bearings? Were any glazed or grooved? What about the crank? How did the distributor gear look? How much sludge buildup in the Valley, heads, oil pan was there?

I touch every engine I own, I want the most out of it. For the most amount of years possible.

Originally posted by: Thump553
Read your owner's manual and follow what it says. If the information they published was incorrect there would have been major class action suits a long time ago.

The books are recommended intervals, they don't say do this and the car is guarenteed to last. Then they would have an issue.

Originally posted by: Thump553
The only possible time to vary from the 5K schedule would be for a car that is rarely used, then you change it on a time schedule.

The 3 month interval was found to be true, after OIL ANALYSIS TEST the oil was breaking down to due the various acids in the engine.




I still have yet to see proof on multiple engines that the 3k is a myth. I want to see the level of debris between the two, amount of gas and other chemicals difference between the two, among the main tests. There has yet to be an unbiased test out there.