[TFTCentral] Acer Predator Z35 Review

[Madpacket]

Well with all do respect, manufacturers claim alot of things. We've yet to see any measured static contrast ratios or luminance from panels that claim to be 'HDR' capable. No manufacturer has come out saying they will strive towards something like 500cd/m^2 of maximum white luminance or .1 or .01cd/m^2 maximum black levels which would allow for greater contrast.

Some of the best IPS panels out there allow 3x as much light as a PVA or MVA panel at around .315cd/m^2 max black luminance.

All panels were measure from uncalibrated (out of the box) panels.

From a recent review of the BenQ SW2700PT, one of the best performing IPS panels Tom's has ever reviewed with a measured 1121.7:1 contrast ratio and superb color accuracy.
White

Black

Compared to the Philips BDM4065UC 40" VA (measured contrast of 6259.4:1):
White

Black

IPS is limited by its own tech in terms of black detail, I'm not so sure new panels will magically overcome the problem in the next year and be able to provide a true 'HDR' experience.

I think VA is much more suited to the task, at least until OLED is ready for prime time.

Hmm, after reading a bunch on the different display technologies last night I think VA monitors make for a pretty terrible PC gaming experience, possibly worse than even modern TN panels.

FYI that 40" Philips has a ton of issues (bad input lag, 60hz with no freesync, off centre shifting (typical of VA) issues, horrible colour accuracy, PWM etc. Sure the black are amazing but would you put up with the rest of the issues? Only saving grace is the price.

As for the Acer Predator Z35, this thing is a joke for the price.

Look at the negatives from the TFT review:

- Viewing angles are not much better than TN panels.

"...The viewing angles of the VA panel technology were not great sadly, and a step back from some other modern VA panels we've tested in fact. You will notice fairly obvious contrast and colour tone shifts if you move your line of sight around much of view the screen from an angle. Some contrast shifts may be evident because of the very wide size of the display, as you glance towards the edges from a centrally aligned position. That's hard to avoid on such a large desktop monitor from close up."
and

"Viewing angles of the Z35 were a little disappointing to be honest. The image behaved more like older generation VA panels than some of the modern VA screens we've tested of late. From a side angle, the image became washed out and yellow in appearance as you can see. The same was visible from above and below. It reminded us of some older generation VA panels such as that used in the BenQ GW2750HM for instance. We had hoped for better, as we had seen improvements in VA viewing angles with more recent models like the BenQ GW2760HS and BenQ BL3200PT for instance. So here, despite it being a brand new panel from AU Optronics, it seems viewing angles have taken a bit of a step back."

- Horrible luminance uniformity
- Can't handle more than 120hz due to major G2G issues rendering 200Hz useless. Even at normal OD at 120Hz still huge spikes in G2G exist. Smeary mess all around.
- With overdrive enabled to compensate for how slow the G2G issue are you end up with terrible overshoot issues.
- GSync is mostly useless due to slow G2G response times which lead to smearing.
-Unless you don't mind major smearing (and who wouldn't) in the areas this monitor is supposed to be strongest (dark areas).
- ULMB at 120hz is the really the only acceptable way to use this for fast pace games but you lose GSync at 120Hz.
- Pixel size at 35" is kind of pathetic for a monitor today.
- 3000:1 contrast (for a PVA panel this is pretty bad comparatively)
- Overshoot issues for anything higher than 60Hz is really unacceptable.

In summary, it's a bad monitor with features that are rendered unusable (GSync, 200Hz, OD settings, wide viewing angles washed out due to TN like colour shifting) due mostly to VA's inherit flaws. So you're paying for features you can't use. Sure sign me up!

One thing people seem to gloss over with VA/PVA etc is the following:

"Some transitions were very slow and problematic and so in some colour transitions you can see excess smearing. In other cases the image was clearer. This is fairly typical of VA panels to be honest."

VA panels "Smear" and have off-centre viewing issues. That's really the best way to describe them (having owned them in the past). If you think this is better than a good IPS for a desktop monitor please go ahead and waste your money.

 

[Headfoot]

VA panels "Smear" and have off-centre viewing issues. That's really the best way to describe them (having owned them in the past). If you think this is better than a good IPS for a desktop monitor please go ahead and waste your money.

IPS panels have backlight glow and have blurring issues. I've owned them. Even good ones. If you think this is better than TN for a desktop gaming monitor please go ahead and waste your money.

See, it's all about what you prioritize.

• IPS = unplayable survival games, bad looking dark games due to ips glow, worse blur than TN but better than VA, good gaming ones are expensive, good colors.

• VA = smearing but great contrast, good gaming ones are expensive, worse viewing angles than IPS.

• TN = worst off angle viewing, poorer colors, but low blur and high refresh rate, cheaper.

• OLED = very expensive, low availability, reduced lifespan, great colors, great contrast, very low blur

This list is not comprehensive, just high level list. This list doesn't account for varying quality between different panels and monitors.

There is no perfect monitor. Only better or worse matches for particular use cases and budgets. And as you can see by this review, even the panel type is only one factor of many.

 

[4K_shmoorK]

etc, etc, etc, etc

VA panels "Smear" and have off-centre viewing issues. That's really the best way to describe them (having owned them in the past). If you think this is better than a good IPS for a desktop monitor please go ahead and waste your money.

That's fine. I think I recall going back and forth with you before about the merits of gaming on 4K and 144Hz IPS panels. You were pretty dismissive of pretty much everyone elses opinion besides your own and its clear not much has changed.

Enjoy whatever you choose to use.

 

[moonbogg]

Makes you wonder why they got rid of Plasma TV's.

I'm using a really old plasma TV, something like 55" or so and it looks incredible. Perfect uniformity across the screen, very clean, nice blacks etc. I never appreciated it until I started noticing all the issues with the TN and IPS panels I've had.
My first couple IPS panels smeared like crazy. TN panels always had bad viewing angles and bad black levels. My current IPS is pretty amazing really, but it has IPS glow and uniformity isn't exactly amazing.
I am hoping for OLED to really come through in the next few years and fix ALL of these issues and deliver what is truly the ideal 2D panel experience.

 

[Madpacket]

IPS panels have backlight glow and have blurring issues. I've owned them. Even good ones. If you think this is better than TN for a desktop gaming monitor please go ahead and waste your money.

See, it's all about what you prioritize.

• IPS = unplayable survival games, bad looking dark games due to ips glow, worse blur than TN but better than VA, good gaming ones are expensive, good colors.

• VA = smearing but great contrast, good gaming ones are expensive, worse viewing angles than IPS.

• TN = worst off angle viewing, poorer colors, but low blur and high refresh rate, cheaper.

• OLED = very expensive, low availability, reduced lifespan, great colors, great contrast, very low blur

This list is not comprehensive, just high level list. This list doesn't account for varying quality between different panels and monitors.

There is no perfect monitor. Only better or worse matches for particular use cases and budgets. And as you can see by this review, even the panel type is only one factor of many.

Fair points except I would like to add a point about TN. Even though they have the fastest pixel response times they do so at the cost of overshoot which distorts the image at higher refresh rates. IPS (at least the new "glowy" ones) can hit sub 7ms response times and therefore manage 120-144Hz with almost zero overshoot. This is a tradeoff yes but I'm confused when you are saying worse blur. I guess compared to somewhat distorted overshoot TN panels they may appear blurry but that doesn't seem to be an issue (at least in side by side comparisons). Compare either to a good CRT at 120Hz you see an immediate difference though.

Anyways I think the market currently reflects my opinion if you look at the price of these panels. High refresh rate IPS panels still demand the highest premium and offer the best overall balance given the compromises we have to deal with. At least for gaming monitors.

I've also not really experienced any issues playing dark games on my MG279Q as I don't have any issues with major IPS Glow with my panel. Sure it's there if you look for it but it's not bad and makes no major impact while playing darker games. It's nothing like playing on a TN panel where the colours invert if you move your head at all or with VA you have smearing and smudging in darker games. Who cares about inky blacks if you're dealing with ugly smudging? These are all crappy tradeoffs but which is the least crappy?

Also the problem with many new panels is terrible quality control. It's very hit or miss to get a good one unfortunately. I was lucky with my panel and with the amount of glow it emits being minimal but I know others who bought the same monitor and it's much worse. How these manufacturers get away selling them in this state is beyond me. You would think with the # of RMA's they have to deal with they would be losing tons of money and smarten up?

 

[Madpacket]

That's fine. I think I recall going back and forth with you before about the merits of gaming on 4K and 144Hz IPS panels. You were pretty dismissive of pretty much everyone elses opinion besides your own and its clear not much has changed.

Enjoy whatever you choose to use.

It's funny you mention that. Yes I was adamant and dismissive in that thread. I still am adamant about 144Hz IPS displays being the best we have currently if you can pick only one general gaming display.

That being said I just purchased a 49" 4K Wasabi Mango with FreeSync as I want to experience a more immersive casual gaming experience. Now I'll own both and make my own comparisons directly. I've played around on smaller 4K panels and haven't been impressed other than for photography work. Unfortunately 60Hz still sucks but at least Freesync is there to help with the dips and sitting 3 feet from a 49" screen should be pretty cool. Luckily I have the GPU's to drive the display at 4K as well. It's also an panel is IPS (made by LG OMG!) so it shouldn't have any of the drawbacks of the existing VA panels

I may be opinionated and sometimes an ***hole but it's mainly because I'm a hardware nut and buy a ton of tech to play with. I usually have a good sense of what's the best tech for the money. I know it shouldn't bother me but I really hate when people waste their money when better options exist. Even if you don't agree you should still know the facts of about what you're buying and base your decision off facts and not emotion or crappy review sites that get paid to say positive things to keep the money coming in.

 

[Madpacket]

I'm using a really old plasma TV, something like 55" or so and it looks incredible. Perfect uniformity across the screen, very clean, nice blacks etc. I never appreciated it until I started noticing all the issues with the TN and IPS panels I've had.
My first couple IPS panels smeared like crazy. TN panels always had bad viewing angles and bad black levels. My current IPS is pretty amazing really, but it has IPS glow and uniformity isn't exactly amazing.
I am hoping for OLED to really come through in the next few years and fix ALL of these issues and deliver what is truly the ideal 2D panel experience.

I hear you. I still have a 46" 1080P Panasonic plasma that I bought in 2009 that still looks amazing, especially for gaming. Not the best input lag but good enough for laid back console gaming. Makes for a good bedroom TV. Unfortunately it was too small for my living room so I replaced it with a very cheap (under 1K) 65" Vizio with active zone lighting and 4:4:4 chroma with 10 bit colour support. I love the size of the Vizio's and think they're the best TV's or the money. The image quality is pretty good overall but the motion clarity is just garbage compared to my plasma (or any plasma for that matter).

I'm really puzzled why plasma displays went away altogether. The most recent plasma's have almost none of the drawbacks the early ones did, perhaps it was the invalid fear of image retention or power consumption that killed them, I dunno.

OLED is really nice but I worry a little about the longevity of them. Hopefully they'll figure that out by the time they become affordable.

 

[hawtdawg]

I'm really puzzled why plasma displays went away altogether. The most recent plasma's have almost none of the drawbacks the early ones did, perhaps it was the invalid fear of image retention or power consumption that killed them, I dunno.

People weren't buying them due to old rumors (having to fill them up with Xenon gas etc LOL), plus they weren't power efficient. They also weren't great performers in a lit room. Also, you couldn't release a flagship television in 2014 that wasn't 4K, so they would have had to completely retool in order to make a 4K plasma, which wasn't worth the investment when OLED was right around the corner.

 

[Headfoot]

My grandpa has a Pioneer Elite PRO-151FD plasma. Truly sad plasma never went farther than it did. I don't really care that much about the power consumption, and that TV looks fantastic.

 

[Madpacket]

People weren't buying them due to old rumors (having to fill them up with Xenon gas etc LOL), plus they weren't power efficient. They also weren't great performers in a lit room. Also, you couldn't release a flagship television in 2014 that wasn't 4K, so they would have had to completely retool in order to make a 4K plasma, which wasn't worth the investment when OLED was right around the corner.

Good point. The retooling for 4K probably put the nail in the coffin. AFAIK the more recent Plasma's were pretty good energy consumption wise but still behind LED TVs'.

Here's a good comparison of the different TV techs.

http://www.cnet.com/news/led-lcd-vs-plasma-vs-lcd/

 

[Madpacket]

My grandpa has a Pioneer Elite PRO-151FD plasma. Truly sad plasma never went farther than it did. I don't really care that much about the power consumption, and that TV looks fantastic.

The Pioneer Elites were the best, years ahead of the competition but to expensive. IIRC Panasonic bought a bunch of the tech from Pioneer after they got out of the Plasma business and incorporated it into their TV's.

Oh well, at least HDR OLED is on the horizon and the cost will come down eventually.

 

[hawtdawg]

Good point. The retooling for 4K probably put the nail in the coffin. AFAIK the more recent Plasma's were pretty good energy consumption wise but still behind LED TVs'.

Here's a good comparison of the different TV techs.

http://www.cnet.com/news/led-lcd-vs-plasma-vs-lcd/

Yeah they were getting better towards the end power consumption wise, but it was too little too late. Plasma ultimately died because of how it was perceived, and not how it actually was. Pretty sure Panasonic and Samsung were losing money on them towards the end, so moving to 4K was just not something that would have made any sense.

OLED looks great, but its still too expensive for me personally. I have an ST30 and an ST60 that I'll be using until OLED comes down in price. The ST60 especially is spectacular.

 

[Headfoot]

Yeah they were getting better towards the end power consumption wise, but it was too little too late. Plasma ultimately died because of how it was perceived, and not how it actually was. Pretty sure Panasonic and Samsung were losing money on them towards the end, so moving to 4K was just not something that would have made any sense.

OLED looks great, but its still too expensive for me personally. I have an ST30 and an ST60 that I'll be using until OLED comes down in price. The ST60 especially is spectacular.

Have you used the ST60 hooked up to your PC? What refresh rate does it expose to the OS, 60hz?

 

[hawtdawg]

Have you used the ST60 hooked up to your PC? What refresh rate does it expose to the OS, 60hz?

just 60hz. I tried playing with overclocking but couldn't get anything higher to display. The motion on a plasma is way different from an LCD though, 60hz on an LCD doesn't feel near as smooth as it does on a plasma (no, i don't have motion smoothing on)