Texas Voter ID Law Stands For Midterm Elections, Court Rules

glenn1

Lifer
Sep 6, 2000
25,383
1,013
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The "poll tax" angle is being dismissed (rightfully so) and these measures will have to be fought on the truthful basis of "we don't like the politics of these laws." This is made transparently apparent by the dissent in the case, "S.B. 5 does not fully remove the burden disproportionately placed on poor and minority voters; it just creates a new and different burden." Because an affidavit is a burden if you're swearing one in bad faith.

https://www.npr.org/2018/04/28/606730179/texas-voter-id-law-stands-for-midterm-elections-court-rules
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
87,598
54,539
136
As always, the right reason to oppose these laws is because they are pointless and stupid. Everyone knows they are stupid, it’s just that conservatives like the politics of these laws.

It would be nice if conservatives were honest enough with themselves and others to admit the point is to stop people from voting who they think won’t vote the ‘right’ way.
 
Feb 4, 2009
35,862
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How much revenue is Texas loosing by issuing these free IDs?
How many fraudulent votes will be prevented?
 

umbrella39

Lifer
Jun 11, 2004
13,816
1,126
126
How many times do conservatives need to be reminded no matter what kind of suppression you try, you cannot run away from live births that just relegated us non minorities into background noise in a few short years... The GOP will be dead by the year 2040 UNLESS of course you ever open up your tent to non white people... Not going to happen though...

I hope I am still alive and these forums are still up and running when my truth becomes your reality...
 

soundforbjt

Lifer
Feb 15, 2002
17,788
6,041
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Read the article. There is no way this discriminates against anyone that has the right to vote.
Say you live in a house with three other people, only one name on the utility bills, you have no bank account, you’re out of work and you don’t drive. How do you get to vote?
 

glenn1

Lifer
Sep 6, 2000
25,383
1,013
126
Say you live in a house with three other people, only one name on the utility bills, you have no bank account, you’re out of work and you don’t drive. How do you get to vote?

You move to a state that doesn't care about validating your identity and lets you vote anyway.
 
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Greenman

Lifer
Oct 15, 1999
21,983
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Say you live in a house with three other people, only one name on the utility bills, you have no bank account, you’re out of work and you don’t drive. How do you get to vote?
If this person ever had a job, he has an ID. He's good to go.
If he's never had a job, never had an ID, never rented a place to live, never driven a car, and is to lazy to get a free state ID, he was never going to bother voting anyway. All this guy is ever going to do is smoke weed and watch his parents TV.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
87,598
54,539
136
If this person ever had a job, he has an ID. He's good to go.
If he's never had a job, never had an ID, never rented a place to live, never driven a car, and is to lazy to get a free state ID, he was never going to bother voting anyway. All this guy is ever going to do is smoke weed and watch his parents TV.

All I want is for you guys to justify this law’s existence.

In-person voter fraud is for all intents and purposes nonexistent. That means you are wasting tax dollars and people’s time to prevent something that doesn’t happen. As a small government conservative shouldn’t you want these laws to be abolished?

I’m sure you will argue otherwise because conservatives aren’t actually about small government.
 
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Greenman

Lifer
Oct 15, 1999
21,983
6,297
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All I want is for you guys to justify this law’s existence.

In-person voter fraud is for all intents and purposes nonexistent. That means you are wasting tax dollars and people’s time to prevent something that doesn’t happen. As a small government conservative shouldn’t you want these laws to be abolished?

I’m sure you will argue otherwise because conservatives aren’t actually about small government.
How do you prove it doesn't happen if you don't ID the people voting? I've heard several times that there is no voter fraud, but if the question isn't asked, how can it be answered? Educate me, I really don't know how this was figured out.

The justification part is simple. Conservatives don't want non-citizens to vote. There is only one way of assuring that.
 
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theeedude

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
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It's basically another law for Texas to harass minority voters to discourage turnout, which they have a track record of. Bureaucrats should not be deciding what's a "reasonable impediment" and disenfranchising people as a result.
 
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glenn1

Lifer
Sep 6, 2000
25,383
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"Fuck the poors because they disagree with me politically."

The poors who are provided free TX voter IDs that comply with the requirements of this law?

Let me ask you the inverse of the question you asked - if someone had illegally voted in the name of the person who "lives in a house with three other people, only one name on the utility bills, you have no bank account, you’re out of work and you don’t drive" then how would that person prove they were the "real" person instead of the person who falsely voted in their name?
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
87,598
54,539
136
How do you prove it doesn't happen if you don't ID the people voting? I've heard several times that there is no voter fraud, but if the question isn't asked, how can it be answered? Educate me, I really don't know how this was figured out.

It’s very simple, the only way people ineligible to vote is that they either fraudulently register or they impersonate someone else.

1) Registration requires proof of citizenship already so ID at the polls does nothing.

2) Impersonation at the polls would result in double votes under the same ID, as surely sometimes the person impersonated would also vote. This doesn’t happen. This has been studied at great length and was the subject of a multimillion dollar effort by GWB to prove. Literally all evidence indicates it doesn’t exist. More importantly it’s just common sense. The penalties for that voting are extremely high and one extra vote does effectively nothing. If you just apply logic it clearly shows there’s no point to in-person voter fraud.

The justification part is simple. Conservatives don't want non-citizens to vote. There is only one way of assuring that.

It’s very clearly not that. They don’t want liberals to vote. There’s no logic that makes sense otherwise. I mean they have been caught on tape saying as much.
 
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Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,685
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How do you prove it doesn't happen if you don't ID the people voting? I've heard several times that there is no voter fraud, but if the question isn't asked, how can it be answered? Educate me, I really don't know how this was figured out.

The justification part is simple. Conservatives don't want non-citizens to vote. There is only one way of assuring that.

Nobody wants non-citizens to vote. OTOH, Libs want as few impediments to voting as is reasonably possible. So voter ID advocates need to show us proof they can't quite muster that voter fraud is a significant problem. Suspecting that it might be a problem is insufficient cause to take action or to basically besmirch the efforts of thousands of Americans who work in Registrar's offices & polling places all over the country preventing fraud & abuse of the voting system.
 

umbrella39

Lifer
Jun 11, 2004
13,816
1,126
126
VOTING IS A FUNDAMENTAL RIGHT, NOT A PRIVILEGE
Nothing is more fundamental to our democracy than the right to vote.
The right to vote is protected by more constitutional amendments - the 1st, 14th, 15th, 19th, 24th and 26th - than any other right we enjoy as Americans.

There are additional federal and state statutes which guarantee and protect voting rights, as well as declarations by the Supreme Court that the right to vote is fundamental because it is protective of all our other rights.

NO ELIGIBLE CITIZEN SHOULD HAVE TO PAY TO VOTE
Requiring voters to obtain an ID in order to vote is tantamount to a poll tax. Although some states issue IDs for free, the birth certificates, passports, or other documents required to obtain a government-issued ID cost money, and many Americans simply cannot afford to pay for them.

In addition, states incur sizable costs when providing IDs to voters who do not have them. Given the financial strain many states already are experiencing, this is an unnecessary allocation of taxpayer dollars.

VOTER ID LAWS ARE DISCRIMINATORY
Voter ID laws have a disproportionate and unfair impact on low-income individuals, racial and ethnic minority voters, students, senior citizens, voters with disabilities and others who do not have a government-issued ID or the money to acquire one.

The Supreme Court has held that a state cannot value one person’s vote over another and that is exactly what these laws do.

Research shows that 11% of US citizens – or more than 21 million Americans -- do not have government-issued photo identification.

As many as 25% of African American citizens of voting age do not have a government-issued photo ID, compared to only 8% of their white counterparts.

18% of Americans over the age of 65 (or 6 million senior citizens) do not have a government-issued photo ID.
In 2008, it was widely reported that Indiana’s voter ID law disfranchised 12 nuns who were trying to vote in the primary election. The nuns were all over 80 years old, all had a history of voting in past elections, and none of them drove. Their limited mobility made it difficult for them to get an ID.


VOTER ID REQUIREMENTS ARE A SOLUTION IN SEARCH OF A PROBLEM
  • In-person fraud is vanishingly rare. A recent study found that, since 2000, there were only 31 credible allegations of voter impersonation – the only type of fraud that photo IDs could prevent – during a period of time in which over 1 billion ballots were cast.9
  • Identified instances of “fraud” are honest mistakes. So-called cases of in-person impersonation voter “fraud” are almost always the product of an elections worker or a voter making an honest mistake, and that even these mistakes are extremely infrequent.10
  • Voter ID laws are a waste of taxpayer dollars. States incur sizeable costs when implementing voter ID laws, including the cost of educating the public, training poll workers, and providing IDs to voters.
    • Texas spent nearly $2 million on voter education and outreach efforts following passage of its Voter ID law.11
    • Indiana spent over $10 million to produce free ID cards between 2007 and 2010.12
There is only one motivation for imposing burdens on voting that are ostensibly designed to discourage voter-impersonation fraud, if there is no actual danger of such fraud, and that is to discourage voting by persons likely to vote against the party responsible for imposing the burden.

~ Reagan-appointed Judge Richard Posner
 

Sunburn74

Diamond Member
Oct 5, 2009
5,076
2,635
136
The poors who are provided free TX voter IDs that comply with the requirements of this law?

Let me ask you the inverse of the question you asked - if someone had illegally voted in the name of the person who "lives in a house with three other people, only one name on the utility bills, you have no bank account, you’re out of work and you don’t drive" then how would that person prove they were the "real" person instead of the person who falsely voted in their name?
I think the better question is who cares? I mean there are states that vote by mail and seem to have no significant issue with fraud. Furthermore, there is no freaking reason we can't vote by the internet in this day and age (I can pay my taxes online but can't vote online?). Its just ridiculous to think that the next phase of improving voting is spending time and money on stricter ID laws. Is that really forward thinking? There's a reason why these states don't want online voting and its not feasibility or security.
 

Paratus

Lifer
Jun 4, 2004
17,516
15,556
146
How do you prove it doesn't happen if you don't ID the people voting? I've heard several times that there is no voter fraud, but if the question isn't asked, how can it be answered? Educate me, I really don't know how this was figured out.

The justification part is simple. Conservatives don't want non-citizens to vote. There is only one way of assuring that.

If you’d ever bothered voting you’d know how registration works and how they can tell who should or shouldn’t vote.

Every citizen of this country has a right to vote. Every single one. Even power old minority ladies who haven’t needed an ID in decades.
 
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glenn1

Lifer
Sep 6, 2000
25,383
1,013
126
I think the better question is who cares? I mean there are states that vote by mail and seem to have no significant issue with fraud. Furthermore, there is no freaking reason we can't vote by the internet in this day and age (I can pay my taxes online but can't vote online?). Its just ridiculous to think that the next phase of improving voting is spending time and money on stricter ID laws. Is that really forward thinking? There's a reason why these states don't want online voting and its not feasibility or security.

Online voting has its own pros and cons, especially security. Vote by mail is “disenfranchising” many due to signature mismatches; if we were trying to suppress votes that would be easier, cheaper, and more resistant to court challenge. Tens of thousands of votes not counted in CA for signature mismatch, and IIRC 4 figures worth in King County WA.

www.latimes.com/politics/la-pol-ca-road-map-elections-signature-absentee-ballots-20171001-story.html
 

MooseNSquirrel

Platinum Member
Feb 26, 2009
2,587
318
126
The poors who are provided free TX voter IDs that comply with the requirements of this law?

Let me ask you the inverse of the question you asked - if someone had illegally voted in the name of the person who "lives in a house with three other people, only one name on the utility bills, you have no bank account, you’re out of work and you don’t drive" then how would that person prove they were the "real" person instead of the person who falsely voted in their name?

Except you can't prove the crux of your justification --- falsely voting in someone else's name --- so the rest of your arguments are a bunch of nonsensical hand waiving to justify your solution in search of a problem.

You can't prove any thing to justify this crap. Outliers and anecdotal evidence don't count.

But hey, I don't want non humans voting, so I'm going to require everyone prove their genus.

Modern conservatives are SO adorable!