Texas science curriculum director forced to resign

Throckmorton

Lifer
Aug 23, 2007
16,829
3
0
http://www.statesman.com/news/...11/29/1129science.html

By Laura Heinauer

AMERICAN-STATESMAN STAFF


Thursday, November 29, 2007

The state's director of science curriculum has resigned after being accused of creating the appearance of bias against teaching intelligent design.

Chris Comer, who has been the Texas Education Agency's director of science curriculum for more than nine years, offered her resignation this month.


In documents obtained Wednesday through the Texas Public Information Act, agency officials said they recommended firing Comer for repeated acts of misconduct and insubordination. But Comer said she thinks political concerns about the teaching of creationism in schools were behind what she describes as a forced resignation.

Agency officials declined to comment, saying it was a personnel issue.

Comer was put on 30 days paid administrative leave shortly after she forwarded an e-mail in late October announcing a presentation being given by Barbara Forrest, author of "Inside Creationism's Trojan Horse," a book that says creationist politics are behind the movement to get intelligent design theory taught in public schools. Forrest was also a key witness in the Kitzmiller v. Dover case concerning the introduction of intelligent design in a Pennsylvania school district. Comer sent the e-mail to several individuals and a few online communities, saying, "FYI."

Agency officials cited the e-mail in a memo recommending her termination. They said forwarding the e-mail not only violated a directive for her not to communicate in writing or otherwise with anyone outside the agency regarding an upcoming science curriculum review, "it directly conflicts with her responsibilities as the Director of Science."

The memo adds, "Ms. Comer's e-mail implies endorsement of the speaker and implies that TEA endorses the speaker's position on a subject on which the agency must remain neutral."

In addition to the e-mail, the memo lists other reasons for recommending termination, including Comer's failure to get prior approval to give a presentation and attend an off-site meeting after she was told in writing this year that there were concerns about her involvement with work outside the agency.

It also criticized Comer for allegedly saying that then-acting Commissioner Robert Scott was "only acting commissioner and that there was no real leadership at the agency."

Comer, who hadn't spoken about her resignation publicly until Wednesday, said she thinks politics about evolution were behind her firing.

"None of the other reasons they gave are, in and of themselves, firing offenses," she said. Comer said her comments about Scott, who eventually received the commissioner appointment, were misconstrued. "I don't remember saying that. But even if I did, is that so horrible?" she said. "He was, after all, acting commissioner at the time."

Comer said other employees don't report off-site activities and that the presentation mentioned in the memo had been approved previously. Agency officials did not respond to Comer's assertions.

As for the e-mail, Comer said she did pause for a "half second" before sending it, but said she thought that because Forrest was a highly credentialed speaker, it would be OK.

Comer's resignation comes just months before the State Board of Education is to begin reviewing the science portion of the Texas Essential Knowledge and Skills, the statewide curriculum that will be used to determine what should be taught in Texas classrooms and what textbooks are bought.

Agency spokeswoman Debbie Ratcliffe said the issue of teaching creationism in schools has not been debated by the board in some time.

"There's been a long-standing policy that the pros and cons of scientific theory must be taught. And while we've had a great deal of public comment about evolution and creationism at state board meetings, it's not been a controversial issue with the board."

The call to fire Comer came from Lizzette Reynolds, who previously worked in the U.S. Department of Education. She also served as deputy legislative director for Gov. George W. Bush. She joined the Texas Education Agency as the senior adviser on statewide initiatives in January.

Reynolds, who was out sick the day Comer forwarded the e-mail, received a copy from an unnamed source and forwarded it to Comer's bosses less than two hours after Comer sent it.

"This is highly inappropriate," Reynolds said in an e-mail to Comer's supervisors. "I believe this is an offense that calls for termination or, at the very least, reassignment of responsibilities.

"This is something that the State Board, the Governor's Office and members of the Legislature would be extremely upset to see because it assumes this is a subject that the agency supports."

Eugenie Scott, executive director of the National Center for Science Education, which sent the original e-mail to Comer announcing the event, said Comer's situation seems to be a warning to agency employees.

"This just underscores the politicization of science education in Texas," Scott said. "In most states, the department of education takes a leadership role in fostering sound science education. Apparently TEA employees are supposed to be kept in the closet and only let out to do the bidding of the board."

Kathy Miller, president of the Texas Freedom Network, an advocacy group that monitors state textbook content, said the group wants to know more about the case. The network has raised questions about past comments made by State Board of Education Chairman Don McLeroy about teaching creationism.

"It's important to know whether politics and ideology are standing in the way of Texas kids getting a 21st century science education," Miller said. "We've already seen a faction of the State Board of Education try to politicize and censor what our schoolchildren learn. It would be even more alarming if the same thing is now happening inside TEA itself."


Anyone else not understand the concept of "bias" against teaching Intelligent Design as part of a science curriculum? How can it be called bias if the Constitution is on your side? Am I biased because I oppose the teaching of magic in biology class??
 

Canun

Senior member
Apr 1, 2006
528
4
81
It sounds more like she got in trouble for forwarding something she shouldn't have. If it were her personal email account, that would make this bad. If it is from her state email address, that lends authority to it.

Think of it this way, would the company you work for appreciate you forwarding on an email about using some vendor, even if the company hadn't decided to use it yet? I know, bad example, but best I could come up with in a rush.
 

Bill Brasky

Diamond Member
May 18, 2006
4,324
1
0
WTF :confused:

It's her job to keep Intelligent Design out of the classroom. It's gotta be about the e-mail or something else.
 

dainthomas

Lifer
Dec 7, 2004
14,936
3,915
136
They said forwarding the e-mail not only violated a directive for her not to communicate in writing or otherwise with anyone outside the agency regarding an upcoming science curriculum review, "it directly conflicts with her responsibilities as the Director of Science.

So they're canning the Director of Science for appearing to be biased against the belief that a magical spirit created the universe?

Is Texas purposely making it so easy for everyone to mock them?
 

Bill Brasky

Diamond Member
May 18, 2006
4,324
1
0
Originally posted by: dainthomas
They said forwarding the e-mail not only violated a directive for her not to communicate in writing or otherwise with anyone outside the agency regarding an upcoming science curriculum review, "it directly conflicts with her responsibilities as the Director of Science.

So they're canning the Director of Science for appearing to be biased against the belief that a magical spirit created the universe?

Is Texas purposely making it so easy for everyone to mock them?

Maybe the personnel from Kansas moved South?
 

JulesMaximus

No Lifer
Jul 3, 2003
74,586
986
126
She should sue the state education department for excessive stupidity.

If any school taught my kid this nonsense I'd have a serious problem with it...:|
 

OutHouse

Lifer
Jun 5, 2000
36,410
616
126
Originally posted by: dainthomas
They said forwarding the e-mail not only violated a directive for her not to communicate in writing or otherwise with anyone outside the agency regarding an upcoming science curriculum review, "it directly conflicts with her responsibilities as the Director of Science.

So they're canning the Director of Science for appearing to be biased against the belief that a magical spirit created the universe?

Is Texas purposely making it so easy for everyone to mock them?

something created the universe. everything is born from something including the universe.
 

Throckmorton

Lifer
Aug 23, 2007
16,829
3
0
"This is something that the State Board, the Governor's Office and members of the Legislature would be extremely upset to see because it assumes this is a subject that the agency supports."
 

MrDudeMan

Lifer
Jan 15, 2001
15,069
94
91
I don't see a problem. One of the bolded lines says the agency wished to remain neutral, which is exactly why they fired her. I don't think it should be taught in a science class and I am a Christian, but she was basically pushing her beliefs in a not-so-subtle way by saying "come listen to why ID is wrong". It should simply be ignored in a science class, and from the sound of it, she was told to do exactly that and didn't listen. Idiot.
 

PokerGuy

Lifer
Jul 2, 2005
13,650
201
101
Originally posted by: Citrix
something created the universe. everything is born from something including the universe.
Hmm.... and what created that "something" that "must have" created the universe? And what created the "something" that created the "something" that must have created the universe? Etc etc ad infinitum.

Basically, the argument that something must have created the universe is pointless. If one argues that the creator of the universe always existed, why is it impossible for the universe to always have existed?

 

rivan

Diamond Member
Jul 8, 2003
9,677
3
81
Originally posted by: PokerGuy
Originally posted by: Citrix
something created the universe. everything is born from something including the universe.
Hmm.... and what created that "something" that "must have" created the universe? And what created the "something" that created the "something" that must have created the universe? Etc etc ad infinitum.

Basically, the argument that something must have created the universe is pointless. If one argues that the creator of the universe always existed, why is it impossible for the universe to always have existed?

I've used that argument for decades.
 

Aharami

Lifer
Aug 31, 2001
21,205
165
106
Originally posted by: PokerGuy
Originally posted by: Citrix
something created the universe. everything is born from something including the universe.
Hmm.... and what created that "something" that "must have" created the universe? And what created the "something" that created the "something" that must have created the universe? Etc etc ad infinitum.

Basically, the argument that something must have created the universe is pointless. If one argues that the creator of the universe always existed, why is it impossible for the universe to always have existed?

yea. beginning and end is a very human way of thinking. I subscribe to the idea that the universe has always existed
 

Martin

Lifer
Jan 15, 2000
29,178
1
81
Originally posted by: Citrix
Originally posted by: dainthomas
They said forwarding the e-mail not only violated a directive for her not to communicate in writing or otherwise with anyone outside the agency regarding an upcoming science curriculum review, "it directly conflicts with her responsibilities as the Director of Science.

So they're canning the Director of Science for appearing to be biased against the belief that a magical spirit created the universe?

Is Texas purposely making it so easy for everyone to mock them?

something created the universe. everything is born from something including the universe.

"The fundamental cause of trouble in the world today is that the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt." -- Bertrand Russell

Also, see sig.
 

dainthomas

Lifer
Dec 7, 2004
14,936
3,915
136
Originally posted by: Citrix
Originally posted by: dainthomas
They said forwarding the e-mail not only violated a directive for her not to communicate in writing or otherwise with anyone outside the agency regarding an upcoming science curriculum review, "it directly conflicts with her responsibilities as the Director of Science.

So they're canning the Director of Science for appearing to be biased against the belief that a magical spirit created the universe?

Is Texas purposely making it so easy for everyone to mock them?

something created the universe. everything is born from something including the universe.

Maybe the universe has existed in some incarnation for infinity. Either through Big Bang/Big Crunch or through some other undiscovered process.

Humans have always had trouble grasping the true concept of infinity, therefore we seek to put limits on it using magical spirits or other devices (usually overlooking that their creator would have to be created).
 

OutHouse

Lifer
Jun 5, 2000
36,410
616
126
Originally posted by: Aharami
Originally posted by: PokerGuy
Originally posted by: Citrix
something created the universe. everything is born from something including the universe.
Hmm.... and what created that "something" that "must have" created the universe? And what created the "something" that created the "something" that must have created the universe? Etc etc ad infinitum.

Basically, the argument that something must have created the universe is pointless. If one argues that the creator of the universe always existed, why is it impossible for the universe to always have existed?

yea. beginning and end is a very human way of thinking. I subscribe to the idea that the universe has always existed

having a beginning and end is not a very human way of thinking. its the law of things including the universe. it was born and it will die.
 

OutHouse

Lifer
Jun 5, 2000
36,410
616
126
Originally posted by: PokerGuy
Originally posted by: Citrix
something created the universe. everything is born from something including the universe.
Hmm.... and what created that "something" that "must have" created the universe? And what created the "something" that created the "something" that must have created the universe? Etc etc ad infinitum.

Basically, the argument that something must have created the universe is pointless. If one argues that the creator of the universe always existed, why is it impossible for the universe to always have existed?

the answer to that you will not know until you are dead.
 

BeauJangles

Lifer
Aug 26, 2001
13,941
1
0
Originally posted by: Citrix
Originally posted by: dainthomas
They said forwarding the e-mail not only violated a directive for her not to communicate in writing or otherwise with anyone outside the agency regarding an upcoming science curriculum review, "it directly conflicts with her responsibilities as the Director of Science.

So they're canning the Director of Science for appearing to be biased against the belief that a magical spirit created the universe?

Is Texas purposely making it so easy for everyone to mock them?

something created the universe. everything is born from something including the universe.

Yes, and creationism isn't a scientific theory and the existence of god is unverifiable by science. Hence, creationism should be taught in a history or religion class and evolution should be taught in a science class.

If a kid asks, "where did life come from?" what's wrong with saying "we aren't sure" instead of making something up or relying on something completely unscientific in nature?
 

MrWizzard

Platinum Member
Mar 24, 2002
2,493
0
71
Originally posted by: PokerGuy
Originally posted by: Citrix
something created the universe. everything is born from something including the universe.
Hmm.... and what created that "something" that "must have" created the universe? And what created the "something" that created the "something" that must have created the universe? Etc etc ad infinitum.

Basically, the argument that something must have created the universe is pointless. If one argues that the creator of the universe always existed, why is it impossible for the universe to always have existed?

Meh, if you say that though, it means at some point physics did not apply which would uproot everything science says it know.

God = outside of physical boundaries and time.

Our universe = inside of those limits.

That makes more sense than saying everything always existed and physics only applied in the last X years to me at least, but then again I could be considered a raving right winged religious zealot or something like that, look out! ;)
 

JulesMaximus

No Lifer
Jul 3, 2003
74,586
986
126
Originally posted by: Citrix
Originally posted by: PokerGuy
Originally posted by: Citrix
something created the universe. everything is born from something including the universe.
Hmm.... and what created that "something" that "must have" created the universe? And what created the "something" that created the "something" that must have created the universe? Etc etc ad infinitum.

Basically, the argument that something must have created the universe is pointless. If one argues that the creator of the universe always existed, why is it impossible for the universe to always have existed?

the answer to that you will not know until you are dead.

I seriously doubt you'll know it then either. You'll just be dead...
 

randay

Lifer
May 30, 2006
11,018
216
106
Originally posted by: Citrix
Originally posted by: Aharami
Originally posted by: PokerGuy
Originally posted by: Citrix
something created the universe. everything is born from something including the universe.
Hmm.... and what created that "something" that "must have" created the universe? And what created the "something" that created the "something" that must have created the universe? Etc etc ad infinitum.

Basically, the argument that something must have created the universe is pointless. If one argues that the creator of the universe always existed, why is it impossible for the universe to always have existed?

yea. beginning and end is a very human way of thinking. I subscribe to the idea that the universe has always existed

having a beginning and end is not a very human way of thinking. its the law of things including the universe. it was born and it will die.

it must have hurt like a biyatch when it came out of it's mom's kooter.
 

OutHouse

Lifer
Jun 5, 2000
36,410
616
126
Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
Originally posted by: Citrix
Originally posted by: PokerGuy
Originally posted by: Citrix
something created the universe. everything is born from something including the universe.
Hmm.... and what created that "something" that "must have" created the universe? And what created the "something" that created the "something" that must have created the universe? Etc etc ad infinitum.

Basically, the argument that something must have created the universe is pointless. If one argues that the creator of the universe always existed, why is it impossible for the universe to always have existed?

the answer to that you will not know until you are dead.

I seriously doubt you'll know it then either. You'll just be dead...

i don't believe in that at all. i cant prove it but i know there is something after we leave this world.
 

manowar821

Diamond Member
Mar 1, 2007
6,063
0
0
Originally posted by: Citrix
Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
Originally posted by: Citrix
Originally posted by: PokerGuy
Originally posted by: Citrix
something created the universe. everything is born from something including the universe.
Hmm.... and what created that "something" that "must have" created the universe? And what created the "something" that created the "something" that must have created the universe? Etc etc ad infinitum.

Basically, the argument that something must have created the universe is pointless. If one argues that the creator of the universe always existed, why is it impossible for the universe to always have existed?

the answer to that you will not know until you are dead.

I seriously doubt you'll know it then either. You'll just be dead...

i dont belive in that at all. i cant prove it but i know there something after we leave this world.

Then you don't know.

You seem to think that you "know" a lot of things about the universe and reality.

That's sad.
 

Aharami

Lifer
Aug 31, 2001
21,205
165
106
Originally posted by: Citrix
Originally posted by: Aharami
Originally posted by: PokerGuy
Originally posted by: Citrix
something created the universe. everything is born from something including the universe.
Hmm.... and what created that "something" that "must have" created the universe? And what created the "something" that created the "something" that must have created the universe? Etc etc ad infinitum.

Basically, the argument that something must have created the universe is pointless. If one argues that the creator of the universe always existed, why is it impossible for the universe to always have existed?

yea. beginning and end is a very human way of thinking. I subscribe to the idea that the universe has always existed

having a beginning and end is not a very human way of thinking. its the law of things including the universe. it was born and it will die.

i was gonna tell you to open your mind and think out of the box. but then i realized the same applies to me and god(s). The simple answer is we simply dont know and never will. You cant prove that the universe had a beginning and will have an end, and I cant prove that it existed forever. You cant prove that god(s) created the universe and I cant prove that he/she/they didnt.

So we'd just be going around in circles.
 

randay

Lifer
May 30, 2006
11,018
216
106
Originally posted by: Citrix
Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
Originally posted by: Citrix
Originally posted by: PokerGuy
Originally posted by: Citrix
something created the universe. everything is born from something including the universe.
Hmm.... and what created that "something" that "must have" created the universe? And what created the "something" that created the "something" that must have created the universe? Etc etc ad infinitum.

Basically, the argument that something must have created the universe is pointless. If one argues that the creator of the universe always existed, why is it impossible for the universe to always have existed?

the answer to that you will not know until you are dead.

I seriously doubt you'll know it then either. You'll just be dead...

i don't believe in that at all. i cant prove it but i know there is something after we leave this world.

there is one way...


just strap yourself onto a rocket capable of leaving earths atmosphere and you'll find out what there is after you leave this world.