Texas Mom Not Guilty by Reason of Insanity

zendari

Banned
May 27, 2005
6,558
0
0
Text

McKINNEY, Texas - A woman accused of cutting off her 10-month-old daughter's arms and leaving the bleeding baby in her crib to die was found not guilty by reason of insanity at a retrial Friday.

Police had arrested Dena Schlosser in 2004 after finding her baby daughter Margaret near death and Schlosser, 38, covered in blood, holding a knife and listening to a hymn.

At her first trial, the jury deadlocked on the murder charge in February, with 10 of the 12 jurors saying she was legally insane. The deadlock forced a mistrial, and the two sides agreed last week to have Judge Chris Oldner decide the case.

Oldner issued the verdict a brief hearing Friday morning, and Schlosser is expected to be committed to a state mental hospital for treatment.

The case against her had hinged on whether Schlosser had severe mental problems that kept her from knowing her actions were wrong.

Defense attorneys told the judge last week that Schlosser had a brain tumor that could have caused hallucinations before the killing.

Several psychiatrists testified that Schlosser lost touch with reality, suffered severe mood swings and experienced religious hallucinations and delusions. One doctor said she told him she wanted to cut off her baby's arms and her own limbs and head and give them God.

The defense faulted Schlosser's husband for not getting her adequate mental health treatment and also blamed her preacher, Doyle Davidson, who believes only God can cure mental illness.

The state argued the defense was trying to deflect responsibility from Schlosser. Prosecutors presented a methodical case, focusing on possible inconsistencies and behaviors that might indicate she knew that killing her baby was wrong.

John Schlosser, her husband, has filed for divorce and has custody of the couple's two other daughters.


As horrific as her action is, its almost as bad that she can get away with it by blaming her husband and her preacher.

There should be no "treatment" for anyone who does something like this.
 

techs

Lifer
Sep 26, 2000
28,559
4
0
One of the things a civilized society recognizes is there are people severely mentally ill.
Some of these people truly do not know reality from fantasy.
As horrific as the crime was a jury of her peers found here insane. In fact in the first trial 10 of 12 wanted to find her insane.
So 22 out of 24 people sitting in judgement on this horrific crime thought she was to insane to be held responsible.

 

zendari

Banned
May 27, 2005
6,558
0
0
Originally posted by: techs
One of the things a civilized society recognizes is there are people severely mentally ill.
Some of these people truly do not know reality from fantasy.
As horrific as the crime was a jury of her peers found here insane. In fact in the first trial 10 of 12 wanted to find her insane.
So 22 out of 24 people sitting in judgement on this horrific crime thought she was to insane to be held responsible.

Then perhaps she can fail to recognize reality from fantasy without her arms attached.
 

IronWing

No Lifer
Jul 20, 2001
72,379
32,956
136
Texas needs to move into the 20th century. Many states have adopted laws that allow "guilty but insane" verdicts that recognize that insanity is a mitigating circumstance to crime but also recognize the danger to society of criminally insane people. So the guilty are still held in custody within the criminal justice system but also get treatment for their insanity. It removes the either/or choice of the older "not guilty by reason of insanity".
 

RightIsWrong

Diamond Member
Apr 29, 2005
5,649
0
0
Originally posted by: zendari
Originally posted by: techs
One of the things a civilized society recognizes is there are people severely mentally ill.
Some of these people truly do not know reality from fantasy.
As horrific as the crime was a jury of her peers found here insane. In fact in the first trial 10 of 12 wanted to find her insane.
So 22 out of 24 people sitting in judgement on this horrific crime thought she was to insane to be held responsible.

Then perhaps she can fail to recognize reality from fantasy without her arms attached.

And myabe the preacher can go through the rest of his life without ever going to another doctor or hospital? This woman did something unimaginable. But if this preacher convinced her and her husband that "god" would heal her, he needs to be brought up on some kind of negligent homicide charges because he was an accomplice to this heinous act and helped facilitate it.
 

BBond

Diamond Member
Oct 3, 2004
8,363
0
0
Ridiculous. She'll be out in no time. Just like Andrea Yates, the other monster who hunted down and drowned her five children in the bath tub.

Horrible, just horrible. I can't help but wonder how these two women would have fared if they were poor minority women instead of "good white Christian" women.

Here's a link to a story from a Dallas TV station from back in February with a picture of the animal and the little girl she slaughtered. Just how the hell can anyone do such a thing?

I'm as forgiving as most people but this woman and Yates should rot in hell forever.

Proscecution rests at Schlosser trial

 

Meuge

Banned
Nov 27, 2005
2,963
0
0
Well, I don't think there should be a "not guilty by insanity" defense. There may be a "be locked up in an insane asylum for the rest of their lives by reason of insanity", but they certainly shouldn't go free.
 

JacobJ

Banned
Mar 20, 2003
1,140
0
0
Originally posted by: Meuge
Well, I don't think there should be a "not guilty by insanity" defense. There may be a "be locked up in an insane asylum for the rest of their lives by reason of insanity", but they certainly shouldn't go free.
It's not clear whether or not she actually is going free, or is going to be locked up in an 'insane asylum'.....I'm curious what's gonna happen...

??

 

BBond

Diamond Member
Oct 3, 2004
8,363
0
0
Originally posted by: Meuge
Well, I don't think there should be a "not guilty by insanity" defense. There may be a "be locked up in an insane asylum for the rest of their lives by reason of insanity", but they certainly shouldn't go free.

I agree. If they're that crazy they really need to be locked up for life.
 

CaptnKirk

Lifer
Jul 25, 2002
10,053
0
71
She ain't getting out and she ain't going anywhere. She has a form of brain cancer that will kill her either treated or left untreated.
What is more bizzare it that it was not discovered in previous examinations.
 

BBond

Diamond Member
Oct 3, 2004
8,363
0
0
Originally posted by: JacobJ
Originally posted by: Meuge
Well, I don't think there should be a "not guilty by insanity" defense. There may be a "be locked up in an insane asylum for the rest of their lives by reason of insanity", but they certainly shouldn't go free.
It's not clear whether or not she actually is going free, or is going to be locked up in an 'insane asylum'.....I'm curious what's gonna happen...

??

The way it usually works is, once (or if ever) the doctors declare people who use the insanity defense "cured", they walk. Unbeliveable. They get their lives back.

That little girl will never get her life back. And what a horrible way to die. Just heartbreaking.


 

BBond

Diamond Member
Oct 3, 2004
8,363
0
0
Originally posted by: CaptnKirk
She ain't getting out and she ain't going anywhere. She has a form of brain cancer that will kill her either treated or left untreated.
What is more bizzare it that it was not discovered in previous examinations.

I hadn't read that yet. Where did you hear it?
 

rudder

Lifer
Nov 9, 2000
19,441
86
91
Originally posted by: zendari
[L=Text]
There should be no "treatment" for anyone who does something like this.

They should treat her by cutting off her arms to see how she likes it.
 

DAPUNISHER

Super Moderator CPU Forum Mod and Elite Member
Super Moderator
Aug 22, 2001
31,760
31,747
146
Originally posted by: BBond
Originally posted by: CaptnKirk
She ain't getting out and she ain't going anywhere. She has a form of brain cancer that will kill her either treated or left untreated.
What is more bizzare it that it was not discovered in previous examinations.

I hadn't read that yet. Where did you hear it?
Just hope its true. It would explain how her wiring got so bad she could do that to her child, and ensure she takes a dirt nap.

 

GTKeeper

Golden Member
Apr 14, 2005
1,118
0
0
I don't think mental handicap excuses you from anything. I think the insanity plea is ridiculous. Breaking the law is breaking the law. I feel sorry for mentally handicapped people, but I feel even MORE sorry for the people they hurt 'without knowing it'.

Execute her, and spare the $$ the country will have to spend on her.

Now before I get flamed... not all insane people hurt other people. So I think it would be unfair to lock all of them up in asylums. But to be fair to other insane people who are able to lead productive lives, this is a slap in the face.
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,889
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: zendari

As horrific as her action is, its almost as bad that she can get away with it by blaming her husband and her preacher.

There should be no "treatment" for anyone who does something like this.

Originally posted by: Todd33
OMFG I agree with Zendari...

:shocked:

Yes, while I also find it shocking to agree with Zen, he also failed to emphasize the Religious aspect of this Republican Texas State.
 

JacobJ

Banned
Mar 20, 2003
1,140
0
0
Originally posted by: BBond
Originally posted by: JacobJ
Originally posted by: Meuge
Well, I don't think there should be a "not guilty by insanity" defense. There may be a "be locked up in an insane asylum for the rest of their lives by reason of insanity", but they certainly shouldn't go free.
It's not clear whether or not she actually is going free, or is going to be locked up in an 'insane asylum'.....I'm curious what's gonna happen...

??

The way it usually works is, once (or if ever) the doctors declare people who use the insanity defense "cured", they walk. Unbeliveable. They get their lives back.

That little girl will never get her life back. And what a horrible way to die. Just heartbreaking.
Any idea how it actually works in this case?

 

AreaCode707

Lifer
Sep 21, 2001
18,447
133
106
The reaction to this story isn't the one I would have expected. If the woman really was insane, did not know the difference between right and wrong, she has my full sympathy. If they cure her, she has to live the rest of her life with the horrific realization of what she did to her own child. Also, if they cure her, it seems to me that she'd not be at risk of reoffending, so I honestly don't see a reason to hold her for something that she was not able to help doing at the time.

I'm also befuddled by the difference in outrage between this and abortion. Most of you think that death is too good for this woman because of her mutilation of the child - do you not feel the same for a child not yet fortunate enough to have left the womb?
 

CaptnKirk

Lifer
Jul 25, 2002
10,053
0
71
Originally posted by: DAPUNISHER
Originally posted by: BBond
Originally posted by: CaptnKirk
She ain't getting out and she ain't going anywhere. She has a form of brain cancer that will kill her either treated or left untreated.
What is more bizzare it that it was not discovered in previous examinations.

I hadn't read that yet. Where did you hear it?
Just hope its true. It would explain how her wiring got so bad she could do that to her child, and ensure she takes a dirt nap.

Front Page, Houston Chronicle - March 31, 2006

<CLIP>

During seven days of testimony in February, three psychiatrists testified that Schlosser was mentally ill, did not know right from wrong and therefore was legally insane when she cut off the arms of her infant daughter, Maggie, in a crib in the family's apartment in November 2004.

Jurors heard only a brief mention of a possible tumor in testimony from Dr. Joseph Black, who treated Schlosser at the North Texas State Hospital in Vernon after she was sent there following a February 2005 ruling that she was incompetent to stand trial.

David Haynes, Schlosser's attorney, said he knew nothing of that diagnosis and did not make the matter part of his case. After the mistrial, he sought out Blacks' medical records, he said.

At today's hearing, Dr. Xiaoyan Wu, Collin County's jail psychiatrist, testified that a counselor at the jail had kept Black's records locked in a desk until three weeks ago.

After reviewing them, Wu said she instructed a neurologist to give Schlosser a MRI. It revealed a lesion in the right middle part of Schlosser's brain, the doctor said.

Wu said it is possible the tumor created a condition known as peduncular hallucinosis, with symptoms such as vivid, recurring hallucinations, sleep disorders and problem with motor skills.

Testimony in the first trial showed that several times in the year before the killing Schlosser had religious-based hallucinations and delusions that she thought God wanted her to kill the child.

In jail, Schlosser once lost her balance, fell and fractured a bone, Wu said.

Wu said that while Schlosser's hallucinations were consistent with a brain tumor, she did not know with certainty whether they were directly linked.



As of now, there has been no attempt, that I know of, to treat her for a diagnosis of a form of cancer in her brain.


 
S

SlitheryDee

I can see how this will play out...

After 2 months of intensive treatment her doctors will declare her fit to rejoin society. Her release will coincide with a huge breakthrough in neurosurgery which, by sheer luck-of-the-draw, she will be the first reipient of. Her book, "The Demon Child", will spur outrage across the globe and because of this, it will set new records in worldwide sales. She will make 1 appearance on Oprah, 3 appearances on The Late Show, and 47 appearances on the Jerry Springer Show. Then she will retire and live her remaining 70 years in luxury and ease.

Welcome to planet America.
 

BaliBabyDoc

Lifer
Jan 20, 2001
10,737
0
0
Fascinating ignorance in this thread . . . psychosis can be a function of a variety of medical conditions (schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, depression, senile dementia, vascular dementia/stroke, brain tumor, prescription drug side effect).

Within the context of an untreated condition, it's quite easy to be NOT responsible for your actions. In the context of a treatable medical condition, it is quite clear that people can be "reclaimed" from psychosis.

 

BBond

Diamond Member
Oct 3, 2004
8,363
0
0
Originally posted by: HotChic
The reaction to this story isn't the one I would have expected. If the woman really was insane, did not know the difference between right and wrong, she has my full sympathy. If they cure her, she has to live the rest of her life with the horrific realization of what she did to her own child. Also, if they cure her, it seems to me that she'd not be at risk of reoffending, so I honestly don't see a reason to hold her for something that she was not able to help doing at the time.

I'm also befuddled by the difference in outrage between this and abortion. Most of you think that death is too good for this woman because of her mutilation of the child - do you not feel the same for a child not yet fortunate enough to have left the womb?

So you actually see no difference between a woman who chooses not to give birth and a woman who gives birth then mutiliates her child?

BTW, I'm as against abortion as anyone but, being that I can't get pregnant and don't believe that I have the authority to force anyone who can to get or stay pregnant, it's really none of my business if a woman chooses to end a pregnancy.

Also, if you're such a defender of children, born and unborn, why don't you campaign as strongly against the anti-child and anti-family policies that have kids in this, the supposed "richest" and "best" nation on Earth, living in abject poverty, living in hunger, and dying from diseases that could easily be cured if this, the "richest" and "best" nation on Earth, would only spend the money on instead of say -- Iraq???