Texas Killer Freed

[Vic]

Originally posted by: JeffreyLebowski

Originally posted by: KeithTalent


What I'm surprised by is peoples' wanton disregard for human life.

KT

What I'm surprised by is peoples wanton care for low life pieces of shit that commit crime after crime yet should be given a free ride in life, and those people's inability to apply reason and understanding of the laws that govern people that defend themselves.

You may have a moral objection to what happened, but there is a clear legal defense to the actors actions and that in the long run is what matters.

I know! Why do we even have courts of law when we should just have roaming vigilante lynch mobs!

Go move to China. :roll:


Oh... and let's rehash this for the millionth time. This Horn guy was not defending anything. He shot unarmed men in the back. Gun rights and property rights and victims rights all have zip-zero-nada to do with this, except as a straw man for legally ignorant.

I should move to Texas, invite some of you over to my place, then blow your heads off and tell the police you were trespassing and stealing. How's that work for you?

 

[TheVrolok]

Originally posted by: JeffreyLebowski

Originally posted by: TheVrolok

Originally posted by: Nitemare
cops and soldiers commit "murder" daily. Why is it right for them to "murder" and John Q Citizen not allowed to to prevent a felony from happening?

Please tell me you're not serious.

If you can't see the erroneous logic in the statement I quoted then I feel sorry for you. Briefly, cops and soldiers DO NOT commit murder on a daily basis, and if they do, they're punished (more severely than John Q Citizen). The reasons that cops and soldiers kill are also substantiated significantly more than if John Q Citizen were allowed to kill (ie training, upholding the law (as they are commissioned to do so), and war to name a few). Arguing that someone killing an enemy during a war is the same as shooting someone in your neighbor's yard for stealing a stereo is absolutely absurd.

 

[TheVrolok]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: JeffreyLebowski

Originally posted by: KeithTalent


What I'm surprised by is peoples' wanton disregard for human life.

KT

What I'm surprised by is peoples wanton care for low life pieces of shit that commit crime after crime yet should be given a free ride in life, and those people's inability to apply reason and understanding of the laws that govern people that defend themselves.

You may have a moral objection to what happened, but there is a clear legal defense to the actors actions and that in the long run is what matters.

I know! Why do we even have courts of law when we should just have roaming vigilante lynch mobs!

Go move to China. :roll:


Oh... and let's rehash this for the millionth time. This Horn guy was not defending anything. He shot unarmed men in the back. Gun rights and property rights and victims rights all have zip-zero-nada to do with this, except as a straw man for legally ignorant.

I should move to Texas, invite some of you over to my place, then blow your heads off and tell the police you were trespassing and stealing. How's that work for you?

Just fine as long as you're white! To shift the debate a bit, I'm curious what you Horn backers say to that black activist quoted in the article. You think there's ANY chance in Hell (to paraphrase) that if the shooter were black and the victims white that he'd be walking out unscathed? I'm going with not a shot (pun intended).

 

[frostedflakes]

Originally posted by: JeffreyLebowski

Originally posted by: KeithTalent


What I'm surprised by is peoples' wanton disregard for human life.

KT

What I'm surprised by is peoples wanton care for low life pieces of shit that commit crime after crime yet should be given a free ride in life, and those people's inability to apply reason and understanding of the laws that govern people that defend themselves.

You may have a moral objection to what happened, but there is a clear legal defense to the actors actions and that in the long run is what matters.

The problem is Joe Horn knew nothing about these guys' backgrounds. People are entitled to due process and a fair trial. When you have vigilantes like Horn dishing out their own brand of justice, it undermines some of the most fundamental rights granted by our legal system.

He basically got off through a legal loophole. I guess in Texas, committing premeditated murder is as easy as luring somebody onto your property and provoking a threatening action from them.

 

[cdmccool]

Good. I'm glad to hear it.

 

[Nitemare]

Originally posted by: TheVrolok

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: JeffreyLebowski

Originally posted by: KeithTalent


What I'm surprised by is peoples' wanton disregard for human life.

KT

What I'm surprised by is peoples wanton care for low life pieces of shit that commit crime after crime yet should be given a free ride in life, and those people's inability to apply reason and understanding of the laws that govern people that defend themselves.

You may have a moral objection to what happened, but there is a clear legal defense to the actors actions and that in the long run is what matters.

I know! Why do we even have courts of law when we should just have roaming vigilante lynch mobs!

Go move to China. :roll:


Oh... and let's rehash this for the millionth time. This Horn guy was not defending anything. He shot unarmed men in the back. Gun rights and property rights and victims rights all have zip-zero-nada to do with this, except as a straw man for legally ignorant.

I should move to Texas, invite some of you over to my place, then blow your heads off and tell the police you were trespassing and stealing. How's that work for you?

Just fine as long as you're white! To shift the debate a bit, I'm curious what you Horn backers say to that black activist quoted in the article. You think there's ANY chance in Hell (to paraphrase) that if the shooter were black and the victims white that he'd be walking out unscathed? I'm going with not a shot (pun intended).

I sure as hell wouldn't have convicted him regardless of color, but then again no attorney is stupid enough to get me on a jury. I'm the kind of guy that would sing this while the verdict is read.

 

[LtPage1]

He killed two men over $2000. Whatever the law says about that, I call this man a murderer.

 

[Xylitol]

Originally posted by: LtPage1
He killed two men over $2000. Whatever the law says about that, I call this man a murderer.

and saved other people in the future much more than $2000
also saved his reputation

 

[RichardE]

Originally posted by: LtPage1
He killed two men over $2000. Whatever the law says about that, I call this man a murderer.

He killed two man who invaded someones property with the intent to commit a crime. What crime they were committed does not matter in the grand scheme of things. I doubt criminals want to fill out a questionnaire about "what were you doing armed on my property. Please respond in less than 500 words and wait for my judgment."

If these two man had just left that house after raping/killing a wife and killing a family in the process of robbery would you still say he was a murderer? You just don't know what these two were doing besides the fact they were leaving someones house armed in the night with a bag full of stuff.

 

[Ballatician]

Originally posted by: TheVrolok

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: JeffreyLebowski

Originally posted by: KeithTalent


What I'm surprised by is peoples' wanton disregard for human life.

KT

What I'm surprised by is peoples wanton care for low life pieces of shit that commit crime after crime yet should be given a free ride in life, and those people's inability to apply reason and understanding of the laws that govern people that defend themselves.

You may have a moral objection to what happened, but there is a clear legal defense to the actors actions and that in the long run is what matters.

I know! Why do we even have courts of law when we should just have roaming vigilante lynch mobs!

Go move to China. :roll:


Oh... and let's rehash this for the millionth time. This Horn guy was not defending anything. He shot unarmed men in the back. Gun rights and property rights and victims rights all have zip-zero-nada to do with this, except as a straw man for legally ignorant.

I should move to Texas, invite some of you over to my place, then blow your heads off and tell the police you were trespassing and stealing. How's that work for you?

Just fine as long as you're white! To shift the debate a bit, I'm curious what you Horn backers say to that black activist quoted in the article. You think there's ANY chance in Hell (to paraphrase) that if the shooter were black and the victims white that he'd be walking out unscathed? I'm going with not a shot (pun intended).

I sincerely hope this isn't the case but a lot of people are trying to draw parallels between the case of Joe Horn and Craig Washington who was recently indicted in Houston. I couldn't find much about Washington's circumstances but he didn't even kill anyone and yet was indicted for his alleged actions.

 

[TheVrolok]

Originally posted by: RichardE

Originally posted by: LtPage1
He killed two men over $2000. Whatever the law says about that, I call this man a murderer.

He killed two man who invaded someones property with the intent to commit a crime. What crime they were committed does not matter in the grand scheme of things. I doubt criminals want to fill out a questionnaire about "what were you doing armed on my property. Please respond in less than 500 words and wait for my judgment."

If these two man had just left that house after raping/killing a wife and killing a family in the process of robbery would you still say he was a murderer? You just don't know what these two were doing besides the fact they were leaving someones house armed in the night with a bag full of stuff.

Horn didn't believe them to be armed (minus the tire iron they used to break in) and he knew his neighbors weren't home.

Originally posted by: Xylitol

Originally posted by: LtPage1
He killed two men over $2000. Whatever the law says about that, I call this man a murderer.

and saved other people in the future much more than $2000
also saved his reputation

True, now he's got street cred. :roll:

Originally posted by: Ballatician
I sincerely hope this isn't the case but a lot of people are trying to draw parallels between the case of Joe Horn and Craig Washington who was recently indicted in Houston. I couldn't find much about Washington's circumstances but he didn't even kill anyone and yet was indicted for his alleged actions.

Wow, I'd like to get more information one this one. I just watched the news story (from 4/08) and read what I could. This guy didn't even hit anyone with the three shots he fired (when he claimed individuals were trespassing on his property), and he's been indicted. Yes, he's black - but he's also (or was?) a congressman and a defense attorney. Interesting stuff, I really can't possibly believe that this guy is getting a sentence and Horn got off unscathed. I really hope this isn't the race issue it very superficially looks like.

 

[MikeyIs4Dcats]

Originally posted by: RichardE

Originally posted by: LtPage1
He killed two men over $2000. Whatever the law says about that, I call this man a murderer.

He killed two man who invaded someones property with the intent to commit a crime. What crime they were committed does not matter in the grand scheme of things. I doubt criminals want to fill out a questionnaire about "what were you doing armed on my property. Please respond in less than 500 words and wait for my judgment."

If these two man had just left that house after raping/killing a wife and killing a family in the process of robbery would you still say he was a murderer? You just don't know what these two were doing besides the fact they were leaving someones house armed in the night with a bag full of stuff.

I believe this case occured in broad daylight.

 

[TheVrolok]

Originally posted by: MikeyIs4Dcats

Originally posted by: RichardE

Originally posted by: LtPage1
He killed two men over $2000. Whatever the law says about that, I call this man a murderer.

He killed two man who invaded someones property with the intent to commit a crime. What crime they were committed does not matter in the grand scheme of things. I doubt criminals want to fill out a questionnaire about "what were you doing armed on my property. Please respond in less than 500 words and wait for my judgment."

If these two man had just left that house after raping/killing a wife and killing a family in the process of robbery would you still say he was a murderer? You just don't know what these two were doing besides the fact they were leaving someones house armed in the night with a bag full of stuff.

I believe this case occured in broad daylight.

Yes, it did. I'm glad you mentioned it as I forgot to add that in my response.

 

[zinfamous]

Originally posted by: Turin39789
sweet, I can shoot people in the back in plain sight of a plain clothes officer and get off scot free!

well, you can in Texas.

so, when are we returning that wretched place back to Mexico? I think Texans have clearly overstayed their welcome....

 

[umbrella39]

Here I sit
Cheeks a flexin
Just gave birth
To a baby Texan

 

[IHateMyJob2004]

Originally posted by: Xylitol

Originally posted by: KK
good, the crooks got what they deserved. :thumbsup: may they rot in hell, if hell exists.

yes :thumbsup:

I feel no sorrow for the pathetic portion of society that steal form people that earned what they have :thumbsup:

 

[Arkitech]

Originally posted by: TheVrolok

Originally posted by: RichardE

Originally posted by: LtPage1
He killed two men over $2000. Whatever the law says about that, I call this man a murderer.

He killed two man who invaded someones property with the intent to commit a crime. What crime they were committed does not matter in the grand scheme of things. I doubt criminals want to fill out a questionnaire about "what were you doing armed on my property. Please respond in less than 500 words and wait for my judgment."

If these two man had just left that house after raping/killing a wife and killing a family in the process of robbery would you still say he was a murderer? You just don't know what these two were doing besides the fact they were leaving someones house armed in the night with a bag full of stuff.

Horn didn't believe them to be armed (minus the tire iron they used to break in) and he knew his neighbors weren't home.

Originally posted by: Xylitol

Originally posted by: LtPage1
He killed two men over $2000. Whatever the law says about that, I call this man a murderer.

and saved other people in the future much more than $2000
also saved his reputation

True, now he's got street cred. :roll:

Originally posted by: Ballatician
I sincerely hope this isn't the case but a lot of people are trying to draw parallels between the case of Joe Horn and Craig Washington who was recently indicted in Houston. I couldn't find much about Washington's circumstances but he didn't even kill anyone and yet was indicted for his alleged actions.

Wow, I'd like to get more information one this one. I just watched the news story (from 4/08) and read what I could. This guy didn't even hit anyone with the three shots he fired (when he claimed individuals were trespassing on his property), and he's been indicted. Yes, he's black - but he's also (or was?) a congressman and a defense attorney. Interesting stuff, I really can't possibly believe that this guy is getting a sentence and Horn got off unscathed. I really hope this isn't the race issue it very superficially looks like.

wow, Texas has some screwed up laws

 

[Nitemare]

Originally posted by: LtPage1
He killed two men over $2000. Whatever the law says about that, I call this man a murderer.

They say serial killers start out with animals. let's just say Horn nipped it in the bud before they got started.

 

[xochi]

Here is an update the story i read in todays paper. Personally, i think he made a bad call.

Dallas Morning News

Suburban Houston man regrets shots

09:06 AM CDT on Wednesday, July 2, 2008
Associated Press

HOUSTON ? The suburban Houston man who shot and killed two men burglarizing a neighbor's house said Tuesday that he would take back his decision to shoot if he could.

"I would never advocate anyone doing what I did," Joe Horn told the Houston Chronicle in an interview at his attorney's home. "We are not geared for that."

A grand jury declined to indict Mr. Horn on Monday in the deaths of Hernando Riascos Torres, 38, and Diego Ortiz, 30, who were shot in November after Mr. Horn saw them crawling out the windows of a neighbor's house in Pasadena, carrying bags of the neighbor's possessions.

The grand jury's decision is not the end of the polarizing case, Mr. Torres' fiancee said Tuesday.

"This is not over ... by a long shot," said Stephanie Storey, who told The Associated Press that she was pondering her legal options, including filing a lawsuit.

Mr. Horn has been called a hero by some and a vigilante by others. He told the Chronicle that he was neither.

"I know what a hero is, and that's not me," he said in a story posted on the newspaper's Web site Tuesday. "I'm a human being that was in a situation that I'd never been in before, and I didn't want to die."

Mr. Horn called 911 when he saw the men but ignored the dispatcher's repeated warning that he could get shot if he went outside. Mr. Horn told the dispatcher, "You wanna make a bet? I'm gonna kill 'em," before confronting the men with a 12-gauge shotgun.

He shouted "Move, you're dead," words he regrets saying, and fired when one of the men started to charge him, the Chronicle reported.

"There was no time to aim," Mr. Horn said. "To this day, I still don't know where I shot."

Autopsy reports released Tuesday show the two men were shot in the back, arms and shoulders.

"I'm very surprised that these two lives had no value, that someone can take the law into their own hands and shoot them down like animals and absolutely get away with it. I'm more than angry right now," Ms. Storey said.

Community activist Quannel X called on District Attorney Kenneth Magidson to release details about the racial makeup of the grand jury and present the case to a new grand jury. Donna Hawkins, Mr. Magidson's spokeswoman, said the district attorney does not plan to honor either request.

The Associated Press

 

[Papagayo]

When someone breaks into your home and steals your valuables, it's not just stealing.
Home owners have emotional attachments and security with their homes.

They not only lose their valuables, they also lose security, comfort, and faith, trust, personal space, etc...
They are basically emotionally, mentally raped. Hard to trust anyone and anywhere, they will never feel safe.


Knowing that the people that violated your personal space is dead (no longer a threat) will give some comfort to the victim of burglary.

 

[Capt Caveman]

Originally posted by: xochi
Here is an update the story i read in todays paper. Personally, i think he made a bad call.

Dallas Morning News

Suburban Houston man regrets shots

09:06 AM CDT on Wednesday, July 2, 2008
Associated Press

HOUSTON ? The suburban Houston man who shot and killed two men burglarizing a neighbor's house said Tuesday that he would take back his decision to shoot if he could.

"I would never advocate anyone doing what I did," Joe Horn told the Houston Chronicle in an interview at his attorney's home. "We are not geared for that."

A grand jury declined to indict Mr. Horn on Monday in the deaths of Hernando Riascos Torres, 38, and Diego Ortiz, 30, who were shot in November after Mr. Horn saw them crawling out the windows of a neighbor's house in Pasadena, carrying bags of the neighbor's possessions.

The grand jury's decision is not the end of the polarizing case, Mr. Torres' fiancee said Tuesday.

"This is not over ... by a long shot," said Stephanie Storey, who told The Associated Press that she was pondering her legal options, including filing a lawsuit.

Mr. Horn has been called a hero by some and a vigilante by others. He told the Chronicle that he was neither.

"I know what a hero is, and that's not me," he said in a story posted on the newspaper's Web site Tuesday. "I'm a human being that was in a situation that I'd never been in before, and I didn't want to die."

Mr. Horn called 911 when he saw the men but ignored the dispatcher's repeated warning that he could get shot if he went outside. Mr. Horn told the dispatcher, "You wanna make a bet? I'm gonna kill 'em," before confronting the men with a 12-gauge shotgun.

He shouted "Move, you're dead," words he regrets saying, and fired when one of the men started to charge him, the Chronicle reported.

"There was no time to aim," Mr. Horn said. "To this day, I still don't know where I shot."

Autopsy reports released Tuesday show the two men were shot in the back, arms and shoulders.

"I'm very surprised that these two lives had no value, that someone can take the law into their own hands and shoot them down like animals and absolutely get away with it. I'm more than angry right now," Ms. Storey said.

Community activist Quannel X called on District Attorney Kenneth Magidson to release details about the racial makeup of the grand jury and present the case to a new grand jury. Donna Hawkins, Mr. Magidson's spokeswoman, said the district attorney does not plan to honor either request.

The Associated Press

Wait, he didn't want to die? How about staying inside your house?

How did both die from being shot in the back, if one was charging him? Did he charge running backwards?

 

[MikeyIs4Dcats]

Originally posted by: xochi
Here is an update the story i read in todays paper. Personally, i think he made a bad call.

Dallas Morning News

Suburban Houston man regrets shots

09:06 AM CDT on Wednesday, July 2, 2008
Associated Press

HOUSTON ? The suburban Houston man who shot and killed two men burglarizing a neighbor's house said Tuesday that he would take back his decision to shoot if he could.

"I would never advocate anyone doing what I did," Joe Horn told the Houston Chronicle in an interview at his attorney's home. "We are not geared for that."

A grand jury declined to indict Mr. Horn on Monday in the deaths of Hernando Riascos Torres, 38, and Diego Ortiz, 30, who were shot in November after Mr. Horn saw them crawling out the windows of a neighbor's house in Pasadena, carrying bags of the neighbor's possessions.

The grand jury's decision is not the end of the polarizing case, Mr. Torres' fiancee said Tuesday.

"This is not over ... by a long shot," said Stephanie Storey, who told The Associated Press that she was pondering her legal options, including filing a lawsuit.

Mr. Horn has been called a hero by some and a vigilante by others. He told the Chronicle that he was neither.

"I know what a hero is, and that's not me," he said in a story posted on the newspaper's Web site Tuesday. "I'm a human being that was in a situation that I'd never been in before, and I didn't want to die."

Mr. Horn called 911 when he saw the men but ignored the dispatcher's repeated warning that he could get shot if he went outside. Mr. Horn told the dispatcher, "You wanna make a bet? I'm gonna kill 'em," before confronting the men with a 12-gauge shotgun.

He shouted "Move, you're dead," words he regrets saying, and fired when one of the men started to charge him, the Chronicle reported.

"There was no time to aim," Mr. Horn said. "To this day, I still don't know where I shot."

Autopsy reports released Tuesday show the two men were shot in the back, arms and shoulders.

"I'm very surprised that these two lives had no value, that someone can take the law into their own hands and shoot them down like animals and absolutely get away with it. I'm more than angry right now," Ms. Storey said.

Community activist Quannel X called on District Attorney Kenneth Magidson to release details about the racial makeup of the grand jury and present the case to a new grand jury. Donna Hawkins, Mr. Magidson's spokeswoman, said the district attorney does not plan to honor either request.

The Associated Press

so obviously he is manipulating the facts to his benefit.

 

[Nitemare]

Originally posted by: Capt Caveman

How did both die from being shot in the back, if one was charging him? Did he charge running backwards?

Yes

 

[Xylitol]

Originally posted by: Capt Caveman

How did both die from being shot in the back, if one was charging him? Did he charge running backwards?

i'd start running if i saw someone take out a shotgun

 

[KeithTalent]

Originally posted by: Xylitol

Originally posted by: Capt Caveman

How did both die from being shot in the back, if one was charging him? Did he charge running backwards?

i'd start running if i saw someone take out a shotgun

He implied they were charging towards him, not running away. How would they charge towards him with their backs turned, which they obviously were since that was where the shots hit.

KT