Did someone call me? 
Some good advice in this thread (also some bad advice!)...
Lithium381, basically, what you are describing is very common. You've mastered the mechanics, you've got your game to the level of playing solid tight. Not bad. The problem is that the tighter you are, the harder it is to get paid off when you have a good hand. If everyone knows you play tight, you won't get paid when you hold a big hand and bet accordingly, but you can take advantage of that and steal pots when you sense weakness at the table. One of the keys to get your game to the next level is to mix up your play a little, keep the other players guessing.
One thing that I've found very useful is when you're involved in a hand and you have to make a decision, take some time to look at the play step-by-step, for each player along the line. Think of what each player would have been thinking when it was his turn to act, what he did, and what that might tell you about his situation. You can often "construct" what each person has based on that type of analysis. Dan Negreanu is excellent at this.
Doyle Brunson's Poker Supersystem is ancient, but I still consider it one of the top reads. Pick it up on ebay, read it, understand it. In it, Doyle even mentions that he sometimes doesn't even need to look at his cards, he plays the situation and the players. Clearly, you have to have some well-tuned instincts for that, but you get the idea.
Another thing you might consider is playing for a little higher stakes. Yes, that sounds dumb when you're trying to learn, but the fact is that playing for $5 with friends is going to create a game where you can't learn a lot. Players will be more likely to do crazy/stupid things because there's no significant stakes.....
Some good advice in this thread (also some bad advice!)...
Lithium381, basically, what you are describing is very common. You've mastered the mechanics, you've got your game to the level of playing solid tight. Not bad. The problem is that the tighter you are, the harder it is to get paid off when you have a good hand. If everyone knows you play tight, you won't get paid when you hold a big hand and bet accordingly, but you can take advantage of that and steal pots when you sense weakness at the table. One of the keys to get your game to the next level is to mix up your play a little, keep the other players guessing.
One thing that I've found very useful is when you're involved in a hand and you have to make a decision, take some time to look at the play step-by-step, for each player along the line. Think of what each player would have been thinking when it was his turn to act, what he did, and what that might tell you about his situation. You can often "construct" what each person has based on that type of analysis. Dan Negreanu is excellent at this.
Doyle Brunson's Poker Supersystem is ancient, but I still consider it one of the top reads. Pick it up on ebay, read it, understand it. In it, Doyle even mentions that he sometimes doesn't even need to look at his cards, he plays the situation and the players. Clearly, you have to have some well-tuned instincts for that, but you get the idea.
Another thing you might consider is playing for a little higher stakes. Yes, that sounds dumb when you're trying to learn, but the fact is that playing for $5 with friends is going to create a game where you can't learn a lot. Players will be more likely to do crazy/stupid things because there's no significant stakes.....
JEDI
Lifer
- Sep 25, 2001
- 29,391
- 2,738
- 126
call his raise. bet out pot no matter what flops.
if u have position, float his flop bet.
ie: call on flop. if he checks turn, you bet. if called, check down river
btw- this is a cash game or tourny?
if cash, play more marginal hands when you have position.
ie:
suited one offs, non suited connectors, suited Ace-rag
GuitarDaddy
Lifer
- Nov 9, 2004
- 11,465
- 1
- 0
Poker is and always has been a liars game. Be as unpredictable as you can, and act like your losing when your winning and visa versa. Some of the best players I've ever played with are complete nuts and make some of the most irrational plays.
Most logical people try to slowly accumulate chips through consistent smart play, these are the pidgeons/losers. The real player knows that success/failure comes down to how you play the important hands for the huge pots at the end of the game, and everything else is just positioning for those few hands.
Most logical people try to slowly accumulate chips through consistent smart play, these are the pidgeons/losers. The real player knows that success/failure comes down to how you play the important hands for the huge pots at the end of the game, and everything else is just positioning for those few hands.
Pretty obvious they are cheating. Next time you lose pull out your 6 shooter and lay waste to them all, collect the $ and split post haste.
- May 12, 2001
- 12,452
- 2
- 0
i was actually considering that......i played the other night and only hit 6 face cards the entire night.....he kept hitting straights and flushs.....like non-stop....
in reality he had a lucky night, i had an incredibly bad one....my most common hands were 27 38 and 49....once in a while i'd hit a jack 2 suited........if it were a real game i'd have left since i was obviously not having a good night
GuitarDaddy
Lifer
- Nov 9, 2004
- 11,465
- 1
- 0
Yes your meter is malfunctioning!Although there are a couple of gems of wisdom in my post, they are cleverly concealed by much BS
Originally posted by: GuitarDaddy
Although there are a couple of gems of wisdom in my post, they are cleverly concealed by much BS
Ha. That explains a lot.
Connoisseur
Platinum Member
- Sep 14, 2002
- 2,470
- 1
- 81
The problem with only playing the odds/premium hands are many:
1) If other players pick up that you're only playing good hands, you'll almost never win a big pot, unless someone else just happens to have a good hand. you can go an entire game/tourney grinding those small pots. All of a sudden, the guy that just bluffed out the table has won a far bigger rake than all of your pots combined up to that point.
2) The problem with playing the odds is that you're playing the odds. Keep waiting for those premium hands and you'll find yourself losing plenty of money in blinds and paying for the cards. So much so that the aforementioned small pots will only help you break even.
Now I'm not saying that one should bluff out every hand. Far from it. With tourneys especially, it's wise to start off with conservative play (at least until you get a feel for the table) and then get increasingly aggressive as you move up the ranks. My underlying point is that you cannot consistently win by just playing your own hand. To consistently win, you have to learn to read other people's betting patterns and try to predict their hands. I don't know about all this "tell" nonsense, but you can eventually recognize when someone's playing strong or weak based on their bets (especially if they're friends you play with on a regular basis).
My two cents... of course, i've never written a book.
Canun
Senior member
- Apr 1, 2006
- 528
- 4
- 81
If you really want to get better, sign up on a free poker site. I go to pokerstars.net 2-3 times a week. With play money, you can play alot less conservative and see what strategy works for you. Biggest lesson I learned was don't play crap hands unless you have position and the pot is worth it. Lots of patience and the ability to fold. But that is only one style. My gf plays almost every single hand and does consistently better in tournaments than I do.
Just get a couple of thousand hands under your belt, and you'll get a feel for what cards people have based on their play.
Just get a couple of thousand hands under your belt, and you'll get a feel for what cards people have based on their play.
hah, shoot I dont know what to say, maybe it isnt 70 maybe its 50 or 30 since I am not sure what the average is I cant picture in my head how far above it I am. Regardless I do well thats all I know to say. Also, I dont 'play' 70% of hands I may ante to see if I can get a cheap flop which I think is a perfectly fine tactic especially when you are playing against a bunch of amateurs who do not bet heavy on the preflop.Originally posted by: DBL
Perhaps he is playing heads-up
No one wins by folding. I play mostly for play chips at PokerStars.com and have played enough to have seen it all. I usually lose to a bad beat, which seems to occur far more often than it does in the real world. But that's why I play for play chips. I occasionally sell a million chips and play with real money. It's fun, but not worth investing any of my own money. People do win though. Their Sunday Million winner usually takes home ~ $175,000. Nothing to sneeze at.
Question: when going around the table, what positions are "best"? What makes a good hand to the right of the dealer a band hand in the small blind (or whatever)? I do ok at reading people I've played with before but I know I play too tight, and I think knowing how to play by table position would help me out a lot with that. When I've tried to play looser in the past I end up playing stupid.
Originally posted by: jandrews
hah, shoot I dont know what to say, maybe it isnt 70 maybe its 50 or 30 since I am not sure what the average is I cant picture in my head how far above it I am. Regardless I do well thats all I know to say. Also, I dont 'play' 70% of hands I may ante to see if I can get a cheap flop which I think is a perfectly fine tactic especially when you are playing against a bunch of amateurs who do not bet heavy on the preflop.Originally posted by: DBL
Perhaps he is playing heads-up
Well, in that type of game, you can certainly play more hands. 70% is probably stretching it though. I could see 30-40% if the table average is 70%. Play good poker and you should make a killing. But you will be subject to wider swings both ways compared to playing a more conservative game regardless of the overall table image.
Position is extremely important. Poker is a game of incomplete information. Having an opponent betting before you gives you information on the strength of their hand. That is invaluable over the long run.
The range of hands that you play should always take position into account. IOW, while you might call (or perhaps raise rarely) with a suited connector in late position, you would probably be making a mistake playing that hand under the gun. So, your hand selection should also take into account your position. In fact, if you were to look at you pre-flop play pct, it should slowly decrease as your position gets worse (Obviously the BB and SB are different). In addition, over the long run, you would lose the most money in the BB and win the most money on the button.
Forgive my ignorance here, I just want to clarify so I understand what you're saying:
- weakest position is left of SB, because you haven't seen everyone bet so you'd be making your least-informed bet
- strongest position is dealer/button, since you're armed with more info than anyone
Now that I type that out I feel dumb for not just knowing it, it's kind of obvious
Thanks.
Originally posted by: paulxcook
Forgive my ignorance here, I just want to clarify so I understand what you're saying:
- weakest position is left of SB, because you haven't seen everyone bet so you'd be making your least-informed bet
- strongest position is dealer/button, since you're armed with more info than anyone
Now that I type that out I feel dumb for not just knowing it, it's kind of obvious
Thanks.
Yes, although the blinds are considered worse since they have the worst position post flop (and pre-flop when you factor in the forced bet).
buck
Lifer
- Dec 11, 2000
- 12,273
- 4
- 81
Most people here don't know wtf they are talking about. Do yourself a favor and go to 2+2 forums and read.... Lots of reading. Get any poker book by Dan Harrington, then read. Then go back to the forums, and read more. Then when you play, post your hand histories at those forums, and then read.
It takes time and patience. If you study enough, it can lead you to solid play.
It takes time and patience. If you study enough, it can lead you to solid play.
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