Texas Bill to Require Presidential Candidates to Submit Birth Certificate

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CallMeJoe

Diamond Member
Jul 30, 2004
6,938
5
81
The devil is in the details. While you are willing to accept something based on faith and the demonstrably biased "reporting" of a political press, some would rather that the very simple evidence be presented voluntarily to put matters to rest. I say that it should be demanded of all candidates for the Presidency as it is a Constitutional requirement.
I think this birther controversy has dropped the national GDP by about .01 percent in and of itself by the amount of time it has taken up in the past two years. It would have been an economic stimulus for the damn document to just be presented to leave it all behind us. And his school and work records as well, just to confirm he really is some kind of prodigy or religious deity.
But feel free to troll on and on and on, yourself.
I, Dr. Chiyome Fukino, director of the Hawaii State Department of Health, have seen the original vital records maintained on file by the Hawaii State Department of Health verifying Barack Hussein Obama was born in Hawaii and is a natural-born American citizen. I have nothing further to add to this statement or my original statement issued in October 2008 over eight months ago
The Director of Hawaii's State Department of Health is now the "political press"?

Who's trolling whom?
 

Fern

Elite Member
Sep 30, 2003
26,907
173
106
Could be, although he was dragged all around the world so I'd say probably not. Could be he just can't be troubled to get a copy of the actual birth certificate. Could be the hospital lost the original, or destroyed it, or only issues replacement certificates of live birth rather than actual birth certificates.
-snip-

None of that really matters.

The HI Dept of Health will provide the information the applicant requests. So, he could simply request them to provide him with a copy that would clarify which BC he has if he were so inclined.

This document verifies the existence of a birth/death/marriage/divorce certificate on file with the Department of Health and any other information that the applicant provides to be verified relating to the vital event.

http://hawaii.gov/health/vital-records/vital-records/vital_records.html

I.e., it cannot be claimed that the info is unobtainable.

Fern
 

PJABBER

Diamond Member
Feb 8, 2001
4,822
0
0
The Director of Hawaii's State Department of Health is now the "political press"?

Who's trolling whom?

Is he a D or an R? Is he appointed by a politician or is he elected, being it is a D State? Why can't he describe the actual type of birth certificate as well as saying it is good enough for him?

This is such a stupid go around. Why won't Obama produce the certificate or allow the State of Hawaii to release it?

I can see how academic and work records might contain damaging information and then may be held confidential for damage control, but a birth certificate? Oh yeah, if it doesn't show what is required then it does pose a Constitutional problem doesn't it?

By not releasing it and not explaining why it won't be released, especially by an egotist after several autobiographical books are published, ghost written by Bill Ayers or not, it seems like the guy would want to lay to rest a very simple issue. Unless it doesn't.

And thus grows a controversy where each party wonders what the other is so concerned about even while defending the absolute logic that each position is based on - a lack of definite proof and, most importantly, the intentional withholding of it.
 

Fern

Elite Member
Sep 30, 2003
26,907
173
106
Someone above has said they don't care about this issue, and I think many others share that sentiment.

But I don't believe this issue is going away.

We've already had at least one bill submitted in Congress to require that candidates' qualifications are verified; of course under Pelosi it went nowhere.

Now we have a state considering a bill.

But this issue will pop up again, HI is not the only state that issues delayed BC's. And delayed BC's are not only an avenue for the (Constitutionally) unqualifed to run for President, it's a pretty handy back-door method to get the anchor baby benefits. You sneak in with a kid young enough, apply for and get a delayed BC, you're home free.

I doubt this issue will end with Obama, it'll pop up again. The lack of verifying candidates' qualifications needs to be fixed.

Fern
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
126
Someone above has said they don't care about this issue, and I think many others share that sentiment.

But I don't believe this issue is going away.

We've already had at least one bill submitted in Congress to require that candidates' qualifications are verified; of course under Pelosi it went nowhere.

Now we have a state considering a bill.

But this issue will pop up again, HI is not the only state that issues delayed BC's. And delayed BC's are not only an avenue for the (Constitutionally) unqualifed to run for President, it's a pretty handy back-door method to get the anchor baby benefits. You sneak in with a kid young enough, apply for and get a delayed BC, you're home free.

I doubt this issue will end with Obama, it'll pop up again. The lack of verifying candidates' qualifications needs to be fixed.

Fern

I agree completely that candidates' (and voters') qualifications need to be verified. I just don't think it can be done while Obama is President without seeming like an attack on him - and therefore partisan.
 

Bird222

Diamond Member
Jun 7, 2004
3,641
132
106
Is he a D or an R? Is he appointed by a politician or is he elected, being it is a D State? Why can't he describe the actual type of birth certificate as well as saying it is good enough for him?

This is such a stupid go around. Why won't Obama produce the certificate or allow the State of Hawaii to release it?

If I remember correctly, a copy of his birth certificate was released by the state, so magically BC are you wanting? Also, you seem to suggest that any public servant that has a political leaning are not capable of doing his/her job professionally.
 

PJABBER

Diamond Member
Feb 8, 2001
4,822
0
0
If I remember correctly, a copy of his birth certificate was released by the state, so magically BC are you wanting? Also, you seem to suggest that any public servant that has a political leaning are not capable of doing his/her job professionally.

I am saying take something like this out of the sphere of politics.

If the Constitution requires that someone be of a certain age and a natural born citizen to hold the job, and it does, then it is incumbent on the candidate to provide this information publicly to the electorate while they are still a candidate.

Ideally, they should do so as a matter of course with the respective secretary of state in each State they choose to run in when they register as candidates.

This is not rocket science and it is astounding that this was not done the moment Obama decided he wanted to run for President. That it has spun up a controversy to the level it has and diminished the Presidency by feeding assumptions of illegitimacy that can be easily resolved is equally astounding. Especially as it reflects a certain disdain for the electorate, ie "How dare they ask that I prove that I am Constitutionally qualified! More cake I say!"

Age and Citizenship requirements - US Constitution, Article II, Section 1

No person except a natural born citizen, or a citizen of the United States, at the time of the adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the office of President; neither shall any person be eligible to that office who shall not have attained to the age of thirty-five years, and been fourteen years a resident within the United States.

Term limit amendment - US Constitution, Amendment XXII, Section 1 – ratified February 27, 1951

No person shall be elected to the office of the President more than twice, and no person who has held the office of President, or acted as President, for more than two years of a term to which some other person was elected President shall be elected to the office of the President more than once.

The 14th Amendment defines citizenship this way: "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside." But even this does not get specific enough.

As usual, the Constitution provides the framework for the law, but it is the law that fills in the gaps. The Constitution authorizes the Congress to do create clarifying legislation in Section 5 of the 14th Amendment; the Constitution, in Article 1, Section 8, Clause 4, also allows the Congress to create law regarding naturalization, which includes citizenship.

Currently, Title 8 of the U.S. Code fills in the gaps left by the Constitution. Section 1401 defines the following as people who are "citizens of the United States at birth:"

  • Anyone born inside the United States *
  • Any Indian or Eskimo born in the United States, provided being a citizen of the U.S. does not impair the person's status as a citizen of the tribe
  • Any one born outside the United States, both of whose parents are citizens of the U.S., as long as one parent has lived in the U.S.
  • Any one born outside the United States, if one parent is a citizen and lived in the U.S. for at least one year and the other parent is a U.S. national
  • Any one born in a U.S. possession, if one parent is a citizen and lived in the U.S. for at least one year
  • Any one found in the U.S. under the age of five, whose parentage cannot be determined, as long as proof of non-citizenship is not provided by age 21
  • Any one born outside the United States, if one parent is an alien and as long as the other parent is a citizen of the U.S. who lived in the U.S. for at least five years (with military and diplomatic service included in this time)
  • A final, historical condition: a person born before 5/24/1934 of an alien father and a U.S. citizen mother who has lived in the U.S.
* There is an exception in the law — the person must be "subject to the jurisdiction" of the United States. This would exempt the child of a diplomat, for example, from this provision.

Anyone falling into these categories is considered natural-born, and is eligible to run for President or Vice President. These provisions allow the children of military families to be considered natural-born, for example.
 

zsdersw

Lifer
Oct 29, 2003
10,505
2
0
There remains too many people who would never believe Obama is a citizen and qualified to be president... even if they saw with their own eyes his original BC and even if it was a "type 1" as Fern references.

The hatred of Obama runs too deep in many, just as the hatred of Dubya ran too deep in many others.
 

raildogg

Lifer
Aug 24, 2004
12,892
572
126
So with all our problems, they want to spend time and money on this?

Was any president before Obama scrutinized as much over his legitimacy of citizenship?

I guess he may look like a foreigner to some and that gives them a reason to be suspicious. Why don't these people admit that they can't stand Obama because he is different?
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
126
[Quote:]
Age and Citizenship requirements - US Constitution, Article II, Section 1

No person except a natural born citizen, or a citizen of the United States, at the time of the adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the office of President; neither shall any person be eligible to that office who shall not have attained to the age of thirty-five years, and been fourteen years a resident within the United States.

Term limit amendment - US Constitution, Amendment XXII, Section 1 – ratified February 27, 1951

No person shall be elected to the office of the President more than twice, and no person who has held the office of President, or acted as President, for more than two years of a term to which some other person was elected President shall be elected to the office of the President more than once.
Quote:
The 14th Amendment defines citizenship this way: "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside." But even this does not get specific enough.

As usual, the Constitution provides the framework for the law, but it is the law that fills in the gaps. The Constitution authorizes the Congress to do create clarifying legislation in Section 5 of the 14th Amendment; the Constitution, in Article 1, Section 8, Clause 4, also allows the Congress to create law regarding naturalization, which includes citizenship.

Currently, Title 8 of the U.S. Code fills in the gaps left by the Constitution. Section 1401 defines the following as people who are "citizens of the United States at birth:"

* Anyone born inside the United States *
* Any Indian or Eskimo born in the United States, provided being a citizen of the U.S. does not impair the person's status as a citizen of the tribe
* Any one born outside the United States, both of whose parents are citizens of the U.S., as long as one parent has lived in the U.S.
* Any one born outside the United States, if one parent is a citizen and lived in the U.S. for at least one year and the other parent is a U.S. national
* Any one born in a U.S. possession, if one parent is a citizen and lived in the U.S. for at least one year
* Any one found in the U.S. under the age of five, whose parentage cannot be determined, as long as proof of non-citizenship is not provided by age 21
* Any one born outside the United States, if one parent is an alien and as long as the other parent is a citizen of the U.S. who lived in the U.S. for at least five years (with military and diplomatic service included in this time)
* A final, historical condition: a person born before 5/24/1934 of an alien father and a U.S. citizen mother who has lived in the U.S.

* There is an exception in the law — the person must be "subject to the jurisdiction" of the United States. This would exempt the child of a diplomat, for example, from this provision.

Anyone falling into these categories is considered natural-born, and is eligible to run for President or Vice President. These provisions allow the children of military families to be considered natural-born, for example.
Does not the bolded part render this whole question moot? Certainly his mother lived in America for more than five years prior to his birth. My understanding is that even if you could prove without a shadow of a doubt that Obama had been born on freakin' Venus, he would still be qualified to be President. It just looks to me like the Birthers have nothing - not the evidence, not the law, not common sense (which says that the first black President is NOT going to be tossed out for something like this.) Instead they have absence of SOME evidence, and absence of evidence is NOT evidence of absence. Hell, there isn't even really an absence of evidence, merely a puzzling discrepancy among other convincing evidence.

I'm still foursquare behind mandating that qualifications of candidates (and voters) be proven, I just think such laws should wait until after Obama finishes his term(s) so that such legislation is not transparently pointed at him.
 

Phokus

Lifer
Nov 20, 1999
22,994
779
126
Is he a D or an R? Is he appointed by a politician or is he elected, being it is a D State? Why can't he describe the actual type of birth certificate as well as saying it is good enough for him?

This is such a stupid go around. Why won't Obama produce the certificate or allow the State of Hawaii to release it?

I can see how academic and work records might contain damaging information and then may be held confidential for damage control, but a birth certificate? Oh yeah, if it doesn't show what is required then it does pose a Constitutional problem doesn't it?

By not releasing it and not explaining why it won't be released, especially by an egotist after several autobiographical books are published, ghost written by Bill Ayers or not, it seems like the guy would want to lay to rest a very simple issue. Unless it doesn't.

And thus grows a controversy where each party wonders what the other is so concerned about even while defending the absolute logic that each position is based on - a lack of definite proof and, most importantly, the intentional withholding of it.

Because it's better politically for Obama and Democrats if loons like you keep saying he hasn't released his birth certificate and that he's actually from kenya. Reasonable people think that position is batshit insane.
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
126
Because it's better politically for Obama and Democrats if loons like you keep saying he hasn't released his birth certificate and that he's actually from kenya. Reasonable people think that position is batshit insane.

I'm leaning toward this theory myself. Same thing with academic records; the truth will never convince the haters nor be nearly as illustrious as what his supporters will dream up on his behalf. I imagine he sees these things as producing no value for him and at least keeping his strongest detractors gnawing on something safe.

I wouldn't have guessed that I fall outside the group of his strongest detractors, but apparently my Obama-hating mojo is weak.
 

GarfieldtheCat

Diamond Member
Jan 7, 2005
3,708
1
0
Absolutely I'm interested in testimony.

Her testimony says exactly what I said it does, no more, no less.

You seem to be under some assumption that an HI official would deny that a type #2 HI BC qualifies as a BC showing birth in HI? I don't understand why they would.

Fern

She explicitly states that he was born in Hawaii. That makes him a native born US citizen, and eligible to be President.

What part don't you understand?
 

GarfieldtheCat

Diamond Member
Jan 7, 2005
3,708
1
0
If I remember correctly, a copy of his birth certificate was released by the state, so magically BC are you wanting? Also, you seem to suggest that any public servant that has a political leaning are not capable of doing his/her job professionally.

Because blabber loves to be two-faced, and since this is a Democrat, that means the gloves are off, and no slack is cut. Every ridiculous concept must be pushed to the extreme at all times to try and embarrass him. This wouldn't be an issue if it was a Republican President.

Notice once again he throws in a sly insult about school records. That has nothing to do with eligibility, but you can see he never asses up the chance for a fact-free troll insult.

He probably wants the super-secret BC that states he is a socialist and a Kenyan, just so he can feel better.
 

CallMeJoe

Diamond Member
Jul 30, 2004
6,938
5
81
...Notice once again he throws in a sly insult about school records. That has nothing to do with eligibility, but you can see he never asses up the chance for a fact-free troll insult...
Only PJIBBERJABBER and his ilk would think there's something suspect in the academic record of a Magna Cum Laude graduate of Harvard Law.

Affirmative Action may help get a minority student into a prestigious university, but it doesn't get them Honors Degrees, especially not Juris Doctor.
 

L00PY

Golden Member
Sep 14, 2001
1,101
0
0
I don't know why Obama hasn't released his proper birth certificate instead of this obfuscation. Same thing with his school records. Maybe he's sensitive about people not accepting his word. Maybe he just likes to mess with us. Either way, none of this matters.
The problem is that wouldn't dispel all the conspiracy theories. You can never appease them, even when you meet their demands with facts.

Conspiracy theorists claimed he wasn't a citizen.
Obama had the copy of birth certificate the campaign obtained released.
Conspiracy theorists said it was PhotoShop and "proved it" with analysis of text halos, lack of creases, lack of a raised seal, etc. . .
Obama had third parties examine it and more images popped up showing clear text, creases, a raised seal, etc. . .
Conspiracy theorists said it was a forgery and had "proof" from their forensic analysts.
Obama had the staffers in the Hawaii Department of Health verify that the document number was that of a legitimate birth certificate.
Conspiracy theorists said wouldn't believe it unless someone from the state made a public and official statement.
Obama had the Health Department Director and the registrar of vital statistics issue a press release stating they personally verified that the health department holds Obama's original birth certificate.

What's next? After releasing the original birth certificate, conspiracy theorists will want affidavits from the doctors and nurses. After releasing LSAT scores, conspiracy theorists will want every paper written while in law school. After releasing college transcripts, conspiracy theorists will want every exam taken in college. After releasing SAT scores, conspiracy theorists will want high school transcripts.

Conspiracy theorists claim cover up by the Governor, ignoring that she's Republican and has been anti-Obama. Conspiracy theorists claim special restrictions by the Hawaii government just for Obama's records, ignoring that the laws preventing the general release of everyone's records have been on the books for decades. Conspiracy theorists claim he wasn't born in Hawaii, ignoring the birth certificate and birth announcement in the paper. Conspiracy theorists claim he has a Kenyan birth certificate, ignoring the fact that they weren't required for foreigners back then, and foreigners had to find the right government office, wade through layers of bureaucracy, and pay a fee to get a Kenyan birth certificate issued.

The tinfoil hat brigade believes in a plot by both Republicans and Democrats, by a state governor and state officials, by the US government and the Kenyan government, by today's media and newspapers back in the 60s, and apparently in a white teenager's ability to mastermind a scheme to lay down a paper trail to make her Kenyan born son appear to be a natural born citizen because in the 1961 she thought her half black kid would someday become president, but also in a teenage mastermind that's somehow stupid enough to jump through hoops to pay for a Kenyan birth certificate before rushing back to the US.

Everyone else believes Obama was born in Hawaii.


Didn't we have this conversation years ago?
 

hal2kilo

Lifer
Feb 24, 2009
24,205
10,865
136
The problem is that wouldn't dispel all the conspiracy theories. You can never appease them, even when you meet their demands with facts.

Conspiracy theorists claimed he wasn't a citizen.
Obama had the copy of birth certificate the campaign obtained released.
Conspiracy theorists said it was PhotoShop and "proved it" with analysis of text halos, lack of creases, lack of a raised seal, etc. . .
Obama had third parties examine it and more images popped up showing clear text, creases, a raised seal, etc. . .
Conspiracy theorists said it was a forgery and had "proof" from their forensic analysts.
Obama had the staffers in the Hawaii Department of Health verify that the document number was that of a legitimate birth certificate.
Conspiracy theorists said wouldn't believe it unless someone from the state made a public and official statement.
Obama had the Health Department Director and the registrar of vital statistics issue a press release stating they personally verified that the health department holds Obama's original birth certificate.

What's next? After releasing the original birth certificate, conspiracy theorists will want affidavits from the doctors and nurses. After releasing LSAT scores, conspiracy theorists will want every paper written while in law school. After releasing college transcripts, conspiracy theorists will want every exam taken in college. After releasing SAT scores, conspiracy theorists will want high school transcripts.

Conspiracy theorists claim cover up by the Governor, ignoring that she's Republican and has been anti-Obama. Conspiracy theorists claim special restrictions by the Hawaii government just for Obama's records, ignoring that the laws preventing the general release of everyone's records have been on the books for decades. Conspiracy theorists claim he wasn't born in Hawaii, ignoring the birth certificate and birth announcement in the paper. Conspiracy theorists claim he has a Kenyan birth certificate, ignoring the fact that they weren't required for foreigners back then, and foreigners had to find the right government office, wade through layers of bureaucracy, and pay a fee to get a Kenyan birth certificate issued.

The tinfoil hat brigade believes in a plot by both Republicans and Democrats, by a state governor and state officials, by the US government and the Kenyan government, by today's media and newspapers back in the 60s, and apparently in a white teenager's ability to mastermind a scheme to lay down a paper trail to make her Kenyan born son appear to be a natural born citizen because in the 1961 she thought her half black kid would someday become president, but also in a teenage mastermind that's somehow stupid enough to jump through hoops to pay for a Kenyan birth certificate before rushing back to the US.

Everyone else believes Obama was born in Hawaii.


Didn't we have this conversation years ago?

/end of thread, but conpiracy theorist never give up. And I bet none of the birthers get excited about Kenedy's assasination.
 

CallMeJoe

Diamond Member
Jul 30, 2004
6,938
5
81
/end of thread, but conpiracy theorist never give up. And I bet none of the birthers get excited about Kenedy's assasination.
At this point, I believe you could produce a Super 8 movie of Ann Dunbar giving birth with Pearl Harbor in the background and a JFK speech live on TV in the room, and the Birthers would find an obscure and ambiguous flaw in the film stock that "proves" it's a forgery.
 

Fingolfin269

Lifer
Feb 28, 2003
17,948
31
91
At this point, I believe you could produce a Super 8 movie of Ann Dunbar giving birth with Pearl Harbor in the background and a JFK speech live on TV in the room, and the Birthers would find an obscure and ambiguous flaw in the film stock that "proves" it's a forgery.

Duh, obviously the same set where we 'landed on the moon'. Lol. Landed on the moon? What kind of suckers do they think we are.
 

manimal

Lifer
Mar 30, 2007
13,559
8
0
At this point, I believe you could produce a Super 8 movie of Ann Dunbar giving birth with Pearl Harbor in the background and a JFK speech live on TV in the room, and the Birthers would find an obscure and ambiguous flaw in the film stock that "proves" it's a forgery.

Magic bullet theory..the sperm was shot in Keyna but entered the woman in question on american soil...

Oh Golmert pyle will say he is a terror baby....
 

Dr. Zaus

Lifer
Oct 16, 2008
11,764
347
126
Didn't you know Obama is actually a Time Lord who flew himself to Hawaii in his Tardis right after he was supposedly born there and put his own fake birth announcement in the paper?

It's the only explanation.

I have no doubt that Obama is another incarnation of the master.
 

hal2kilo

Lifer
Feb 24, 2009
24,205
10,865
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I have no doubt that Obama is another incarnation of the master.

Would you expect any different response from someone who in this day and age calls themselves a Dixiecrat. Don't you know that the Republican Party conveniently ursurped that sad part of the Democratic party after President Johnson signed the Civil Rights Act?
 

BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,562
9
81
Not that I give a shit about this birth certificate nonsense, but it's funny to see all the usual lefties get in their daily dose of RAAAAAGE! about a bill, not even a law, in a single state.
 

hal2kilo

Lifer
Feb 24, 2009
24,205
10,865
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Nah; i'm just a tro... err.. see the sig link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dixy_Lee_Ray

Never did figure out that strange b..... oops that's not politically correct. Washington, had a long histroy of electing the centrist Democrats, Mangnuson, Jackson, then her (got alot of military money). I currently live in the state and am happy that I live west of the cascades. And I do owe my existance to being part of the Military Industrial Complex. I personally, see that's it's for the most part a glorified jobs program that's easily justified for defense purposes.

I need to adjust my sarcasim meter.
 
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