Texas Bill to Require Presidential Candidates to Submit Birth Certificate

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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
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That's ridiculous. If they uncovered that Obama wasn't a citizen, they instantly won the election. Either one of them would have pursued that in a second if they thought there was something to it.
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
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Fern is right. Both the McCain and the Clinton campaigns were very cautious about anything that would smack of racism or would raise questions of character or suitability to any great extent. The ties to Bill Ayers and pals, Rev. Wright, ACORN, etc. were brought up by researchers inside and outside the campaigns and the information was never adequately framed nor much exploited by the campaigns.

McCain did not want to go there as he wanted an aboveboard campaign. Clinton did not want to alienate core constituencies as that would hurt her in the long run.

I think Clinton should have dug deeper and more aggressively used Obama's inexperience against him. She could have pressed for a release of academic records and a full work history and used those against him. She didn't and she lost.

When Obama got the nod he did not hesitate to use every bit of malicious typecasting in an attempt to destroy both McCain and Palin. Look at how many here bought into and still believe the propaganda. Though McCain's and Palin's histories were very much of an open book and thus could never be significantly damaging to them under impartial examination, Obama had lots of ties to questionable characters, his whole history was one of association with them, so he and his campaign never let his book be opened as wide as it should have. It still remains under lock and key, relatively speaking.

The BC matter is a peripheral issue that has much less bearing than others.

McCain was born in Panama; he could hardly argue that he qualified but Obama did not. Either way, this became a moot point when Obama became a serious contender for the nomination. You cannot disqualify the first serious black contender for the presidency by allegations that he is not a citizen, with no background demonstrating this. It just cannot happen. Besides that, there's a birth announcement in the paper. No way could Obama's grandparents have ever guessed that the child of two such worthless people would one day be president, so we'd better sneak in a fake birth announcement. That's monumental evidence that he is native born, but it really doesn't matter. Verification of proper qualifications is indeed important, but no one can introduce berth certificate legislation while Obama is president and not look like a Birther trying to backdoor him out of contention.

I don't know why Obama hasn't released his proper birth certificate instead of this obfuscation. Same thing with his school records. Maybe he's sensitive about people not accepting his word. Maybe he just likes to mess with us. Either way, none of this matters.
 

KMFJD

Lifer
Aug 11, 2005
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BIRTHERS.jpg
 

PJABBER

Diamond Member
Feb 8, 2001
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That's ridiculous. If they uncovered that Obama wasn't a citizen, they instantly won the election. Either one of them would have pursued that in a second if they thought there was something to it.

I think it would have set up a Constitutional confrontation. Nobody has challenged that Obama is a citizen. If he violated another provision, ie too young, not natural born, etc. it is likely that the provision would have been challenged and brought to the Supreme Court.

That would have been a mess that no one wanted, not least because it would have given Obama an aggrieved underdog advantage which in itself would have been a game changer in as close as the primaries and then general election turned out to be until the very end.
 

Fern

Elite Member
Sep 30, 2003
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That's ridiculous. If they uncovered that Obama wasn't a citizen, they instantly won the election. Either one of them would have pursued that in a second if they thought there was something to it.

"Either one of them"?

I'll take it that you're referring to McCain.

So far the courts haven't ruled that anybody has 'standing' to bring this challenge. There's no guarantee McCain would have standing. And I don't think the Repub establishment would support him. The potential political fallout from such a manouever could plague them for a long time.

Then there's the small fact that McCain wasn't born here either. There's no guarantee he'd meet the Constitutional requirement.

Even if McCain did, would Biden be President in the case Obama didn't meet the requirement? (IDK this answer, this has never happened before.)

After the Bush/Gore thingy in 2000, I doubt McCain or the Repub establishment wants to gain the Presidency through another court action. As bad as Washington DC is now, imagine what it would look like after some kind of court challenge to Obama, whether successful or not.

Besides, once it was determined that Obama that a 'delayed BC' what does that really gain them? Nothing, aside from a bunch of troublesome questions for Obama, who btw can't be expected to answer them since he was only a few days old at the time. I've no doubt that there are plenty of people in HI, particularly native Hawaiians at that time, who are legitimate citizens and hold a delayed BC. The fact of delayed BC proves nothing by itself.

Above all, there's always the probability Obama holds a 'regular' BC. I don't think McCain et al would consider a court challenge of this magnitiude without having absolute certain proof that they were going to win (even then, as I wrote above, probably a bad idea for the listed reasons.)

Fern
 
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Bird222

Diamond Member
Jun 7, 2004
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I don't know why Obama hasn't released his proper birth certificate instead of this obfuscation. Same thing with his school records. Maybe he's sensitive about people not accepting his word. Maybe he just likes to mess with us. Either way, none of this matters.

Are you saying that Obama has his original birth certificate somewhere and refuses to show it?
 

Fern

Elite Member
Sep 30, 2003
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Are you saying that Obama has his original birth certificate somewhere and refuses to show it?

Most of us have a certified copy of our original BC. I'm Obama's age, some younger people fail to realize that there were no PC's, networks, fax machines, word processors or printers back then. We've been dragging around certified copies of the original for long time, that's all there was.

Otherwise, HI has said Obama is the only one who can request a copy of his original.

Fern
 

Bird222

Diamond Member
Jun 7, 2004
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Most of us have a certified copy of our original BC. I'm Obama's age, some younger people fail to realize that there were no PC's, networks, fax machines, word processors or printers back then. We've been dragging around certified copies of the original for long time, that's all there was.

Otherwise, HI has said Obama is the only one who can request a copy of his original.

Fern

I don't know whether he has one or not, but I thought HI said that all the birth certificates are on computer now and they don't have any originals anymore.
 

CallMeJoe

Diamond Member
Jul 30, 2004
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Most of us have a certified copy of our original BC. I'm Obama's age, some younger people fail to realize that there were no PC's, networks, fax machines, word processors or printers back then. We've been dragging around certified copies of the original for long time, that's all there was.
Otherwise, HI has said Obama is the only one who can request a copy of his original.
Fern
Many of us who have moved about a great deal lost their original copy of their birth certificate long ago. I requested a replacement from North Carolina and received a document strikingly similar to the certificate of live birth that the Obama campaign released when first asked.

As for President Obama requesting that Hawaii release an actual copy of his original "long-form" birth certificate, why should he?
With the evidence released so far and the statements from the governor and Dr. Fukino affirming that they each have seen the original "long-form" birth certificate and are each convinced that President Obama was indeed born in Hawaii and is Constitutionally qualified to serve, the Birthers are very easily marginalized and their legislative supporters are seen by most rational people as the fools and patent panderers that they are.
 

Fern

Elite Member
Sep 30, 2003
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I don't know whether he has one or not, but I thought HI said that all the birth certificates are on computer now and they don't have any originals anymore.

Many of us who have moved about a great deal lost their original copy of their birth certificate long ago. I requested a replacement from North Carolina and received a document strikingly similar to the certificate of live birth that the Obama campaign released when first asked.

As for President Obama requesting that Hawaii release an actual copy of his original "long-form" birth certificate, why should he?
With the evidence released so far and the statements from the governor and Dr. Fukino affirming that they each have seen the original "long-form" birth certificate and are each convinced that President Obama was indeed born in Hawaii and is Constitutionally qualified to serve, the Birthers are very easily marginalized and their legislative supporters are seen by most rational people as the fools and patent panderers that they are.

How can you both be right?

One says HI no longer has the originals, the other says the Dr Fukino claims to have seen it. Well which is it?

In any case, none of the Dr.s remarks go to which (long form) type of BC Obama has. The term "long form" just means the original back in the day, all four types are (originally) "long form". Long form just means all the data (when, where, name of physician etc)

There is no getting around it - we do not know. There has never been any information published, no statement made that allows us determine that.

There are a few facts that cannot be debunked:

1. Obama has some type of HI BC.

2. HI offers a delayed BC (among others).

3. We do not know, or have any info to determine, whether it's a type #1 (hospital born) or a type #2 (delayed).

The above are indisputable.

I can, and have, granted that even if he has a type #2 it's not proof he was born abroad. I've just said it will raise some serious and interesting questions.

I'm not sure which side in all of this is more obstinate and in denial - the birthers or the Obama supporters. One side absolutely believes Obama is not a citizen in spite of lacking proof. The other side absolutely refuses to acknowlege those 3 facts above and absolutely believes the (insert name of secret gov agency) has checked Obama's BC despite lacking any proof of it whatsoever.

Fern
 

Pens1566

Lifer
Oct 11, 2005
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I guess he also fired up his Mr. Fusion-powered DeLorean and altered the Honolulu paper from a few days after his birth as well?


Birthers :(
 

CallMeJoe

Diamond Member
Jul 30, 2004
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I, Dr. Chiyome Fukino, director of the Hawaii State Department of Health, have seen the original vital records maintained on file by the Hawaii State Department of Health verifying Barack Hussein Obama was born in Hawaii and is a natural-born American citizen. I have nothing further to add to this statement or my original statement issued in October 2008 over eight months ago
Snopes Link
 

manimal

Lifer
Mar 30, 2007
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hey birthers....your credibility went that way --------->



remeber when charlie sheep went on a rant about how the twin towers were brought down by explosives....yup your now charlie sheen....
 

Fern

Elite Member
Sep 30, 2003
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I guess he also fired up his Mr. Fusion-powered DeLorean and altered the Honolulu paper from a few days after his birth as well?


Birthers :(

Why would he have to do that?

Obama was born on Aug 4th. His BC was issued on Aug 8th. Why wouldn't there be a birth announcment following the issuance of the BC on the 8th?

Fern
 
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CallMeJoe

Diamond Member
Jul 30, 2004
6,938
5
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hey birthers....your credibility went that way --------->
remeber when charlie sheep went on a rant about how the twin towers were brought down by explosives....yup your now charlie sheen....
Charlie Sheen is a drug-besotted, sex-obsessed third-rate intellect who can barely "act" his way through a parody film or badly written half-hour sitcom.

Please don't demean the man further by comparing him with Birthers.
 

Fern

Elite Member
Sep 30, 2003
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I've read pretty much all there is at all the sites. Granted 99% of it is flat out BS. But Snopes and others have nothing of significance about which type of HI BC he has. They can't, they don't know and neither does anyone else.

Fern
 

CallMeJoe

Diamond Member
Jul 30, 2004
6,938
5
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I've read pretty much all there is at all the sites. Granted 99% of it is flat out BS. But Snopes and others have nothing of significance about which type of HI BC he has. They can't, they don't know and neither does anyone else.
Fern
I, Dr. Chiyome Fukino, director of the Hawaii State Department of Health, have seen the original vital records maintained on file by the Hawaii State Department of Health verifying Barack Hussein Obama was born in Hawaii and is a natural-born American citizen. I have nothing further to add to this statement or my original statement issued in October 2008 over eight months ago
 

Fern

Elite Member
Sep 30, 2003
26,907
173
106
I, Dr. Chiyome Fukino, director of the Hawaii State Department of Health, have seen the original vital records maintained on file by the Hawaii State Department of Health verifying Barack Hussein Obama was born in Hawaii and is a natural-born American citizen. I have nothing further to add to this statement or my original statement issued in October 2008 over eight months ago

So, according to her statement he has a type #1, or a type #2, or type #3 HI BC, just not a type #4. So what?

Fern
 

CallMeJoe

Diamond Member
Jul 30, 2004
6,938
5
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So, according to her statement he has a type #1, or a type #2, or type #3 HI BC, just not a type #4. So what?
Fern
You're not interested in testimony that President Obama actually is Constitutionally qualified to hold the office, you just want to obsess on bureaucratic trivia?
Troll on...
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
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Are you saying that Obama has his original birth certificate somewhere and refuses to show it?

Could be, although he was dragged all around the world so I'd say probably not. Could be he just can't be troubled to get a copy of the actual birth certificate. Could be the hospital lost the original, or destroyed it, or only issues replacement certificates of live birth rather than actual birth certificates. I don't know. And I don't care. It's a moderately interesting subject, but there are more subjects which are more interesting (to me) than I will ever live long enough to study. And some of those potentially even have an effect on my world. My point though was that absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. We saw the same attacks on Bush and his Air National Guard service. I didn't care then, and I don't care now.
 

PJABBER

Diamond Member
Feb 8, 2001
4,822
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You're not interested in testimony that President Obama actually is Constitutionally qualified to hold the office, you just want to obsess on bureaucratic trivia?
Troll on...

The devil is in the details. While you are willing to accept something based on faith and the demonstrably biased "reporting" of a political press, some would rather that the very simple evidence be presented voluntarily to put matters to rest. I say that it should be demanded of all candidates for the Presidency as it is a Constitutional requirement.

I think this birther controversy has dropped the national GDP by about .01 percent in and of itself by the amount of time it has taken up in the past two years. It would have been an economic stimulus for the damn document to just be presented to leave it all behind us. And his school and work records as well, just to confirm he really is some kind of prodigy or religious deity.

But feel free to troll on and on and on, yourself.
 

Fern

Elite Member
Sep 30, 2003
26,907
173
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You're not interested in testimony that President Obama actually is Constitutionally qualified to hold the office, you just want to obsess on bureaucratic trivia?
Troll on...

Absolutely I'm interested in testimony.

Her testimony says exactly what I said it does, no more, no less.

You seem to be under some assumption that an HI official would deny that a type #2 HI BC qualifies as a BC showing birth in HI? I don't understand why they would.

Fern