Tests revealed 85% failure rate of police drug dogs (new legal challenge)

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Oldgamer

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In 2010, a team of researchers at the University of California, Davis set out to test the reliability of drug- and bomb-sniffing dogs.

The team assembled 18 police dogs and their handlers and gave them a routine task: go through a room and sniff out the drugs and explosives.

But there was a twist. The room was clean. No drugs, no explosives.

In order to pass the test, the handlers and their dogs had to go through the room and detect nothing.

But of 144 runs, that happened only 21 times, for a failure rate of 85 percent.

Although drug-sniffing dogs are supposed to find drugs on their own, the researchers concluded that they were influenced by their handlers, and that's what led to such a high failure rate.

The reliability of drug dogs and their handlers is at the heart of a lawsuit filed in state district court by two Nevada Highway Patrol K-9 troopers and a consultant, who claim that the Metropolitan Police Department's police dogs, and eventually NHP's own dogs, were "trick ponies" that responded to their handlers' cues, and therefore routinely violated citizens' rights to lawful search under the Fourth Amendment.

The lawsuit goes on to make a number of other accusations in its 104-page complaint: that the Metropolitan Police Department is a racketeering organization, that money seized by motorists was misappropriated by the Department of Public Safety, that the two troopers were subjected to harassment and intimidation by their agency.

But what has defense attorneys and civil advocates taking notice are the allegations of illegal searches, which could call into question the seizure of millions of dollars from motorists on Nevada highways and jeopardize an untold number of criminal cases stemming from those stops.

Washoe County Public Defender Jeremy Bosler said the lawsuit's allegations are "definitely an issue of concern throughout the state."

But the case could also shine a light on the use and reliability of drug-sniffing dogs, an area of policing where there are no mandatory standards and little scientific evidence, experts say.

POTENTIAL FOR POWER AND ABUSE

The U.S. Supreme Court has given police "probable cause" to search your vehicle if a police dog detects drugs, typically by sitting, digging or barking.

That is an extraordinary power - officers working without dogs need "a reasonable belief that a person has committed a crime" for such searches. Mere suspicion is not enough, and criminal cases resulting from searches that don't meet the "probable cause" standard can be, and are, tossed out in court.

When the Highway Patrol created its K-9 program in 2008, it contracted with Donn Yarnall to choose the dogs and train the troopers to handle them.

Yarnall, who created and led the training of the Los Angeles Police Department's K-9 program in the 1980s, wanted to create a program so reliable that courts and defense lawyers couldn't challenge the legality of their searches, according to Ken McKenna, the Reno-based lawyer representing Yarnall and troopers Matt Moonin and Erik Lee in the lawsuit.

"This was going to be his legacy that he was going to leave behind as to how a drug dog K-9 program is to be established across the country," McKenna said.

The dogs and their handlers were deployed along the freeways in Northern and Southern Nevada, believed to be corridors for drug traffickers shuttling drugs from California to the Midwest.

They seemed to be a success. Within their first three years, the dogs helped troopers seize more than $5.3 million in cash, more than 1,000 pounds of marijuana, and dozens of pounds each of cocaine and methamphetamine, according to the lawsuit.

But the troopers noticed abuses. The lawsuit claims that one fellow trooper would make stops in Arizona, out of his jurisdiction. Another profiled Hispanic motorists, checking license plates for Hispanic owners before pulling them over.

And the abuses weren't limited to their own department, they claim.

Often the K-9 troopers were partnered with a drug task force that paired them with Las Vegas police narcotics detectives and that agency's K-9 dogs. They would go to a FedEx sorting facility where, the troopers allege, Las Vegas police detectives took packages from a sorting belt and poked holes in them so their dogs could better sniff for drugs inside. In one case, a detective tore open a package and searched its contents.

All of this was done without the consent of the owners of the packages, which would be illegal.

After those allegations surfaced in a report last year by Dana Gentry, a producer for "Face to Face" on KSNV-TV, Channel 3, Las Vegas police investigated and ruled that the detectives' actions were legal, but the detectives did not follow policy because they didn't fill out required paperwork when drugs were not found.

The troopers' lawsuit also claims that the troopers witnessed Las Vegas police handlers abusing their dogs.

"In certain incidents they resort to hanging and then kicking the dog to get it to release," the lawsuit states. "Trooper Moonin has personally witnessed a Metro handler take his dog behind a car after missing a significant drug seizure and brutally kick his dog repeatedly."

ALLEGATIONS OF 'TRICK PONIES'

The abuses - of the dogs and the law - are a result of poor training by Las Vegas police, according to the lawsuit. Las Vegas police trained their dogs to be "trick ponies" that would respond to handlers' cues when searching for drugs.

That caused the dogs to become more interested in getting treats or toys when searching for drugs, they claim. The Highway Patrol dogs, on the other hand, were not rewarded when they signaled for drugs.

McKenna said he has video proof of Las Vegas police handlers "cueing" their dogs. Two of those videos have been uploaded to YouTube.

One, apparently from the dashboard camera of a Highway Patrol car, claims to show a Las Vegas police dog repeatedly walking past an ice chest with four pounds of metham*phetamine inside during a traffic stop. The handler, who knew the drugs were inside, eventually stops by the ice chest with the dog and gives it a toy, signaling that the dog was successful in finding the drugs.

Las Vegas police declined to comment on the allegations of physical abuse and "cueing," saying they couldn't comment on pending litigation. But they said that all officers receive training to reflect updates to Fourth Amendment case law.

Department of Public Safety spokeswoman Gail Powell dismissed the allegations, saying they were untrue and that the lawsuit was filed by "dis*gruntled" officers.

FEW STUDIES AVAILABLE

Despite the wide legal latitude police dogs are given, there are few studies showing how success*ful, or un*successful, they are at finding drugs in the field.

But what does exist casts doubt on their reliability.

About a month after the results of the UC Davis experiment were released, the Chicago Tribune published a study looking into three years of drug searches by suburban Illinois police departments.

The study revealed that when dogs "alerted" officers to drugs, they were right 44 percent of the time. For Hispanic drivers, the rate was only 27 percent.

Police told the Tribune that when drugs weren't found, the dogs were detecting drug residue that was left in the vehicles.

But that explanation is bogus, according to Lawrence Myers, an Auburn University professor who has studied police dogs for 30 years.

While residual odors can cause false alerts, Myers said, too many dog handlers often use it as an excuse, making it all but impossible to assess accurately the reliability of the dog's nose or the validity of a search.

"Frankly, many times it's a search warrant on a leash," Myers said of the drug-sniffing police dog.

Nationwide, the K-9 training industry lacks the cohesion and standards that would allow for objective measuring of police dogs' reliability.

Through the Institute for Biological Detection Systems at Auburn University, which Myers founded in 1989, he has researched the effectiveness of drug-sniffing dogs while calling for the industry to improve its training methods and accountability.

For his efforts, he has been shunned by most in the industry, he said.

Fearing they will be blackballed themselves, many K-9 handlers don't speak out about problems they see in the industry, he said.

"I'm afraid there is a conspiracy of silence" within the tight-knit police dog community, Myers said.

The lawsuit illustrates that, he said, with the troopers who spoke of being shunned by fellow troopers and removed from their K-9 handling duties.

Fellow researcher Lisa Lit noticed a split in the K-9 community after her UC Davis study was published.

Many handlers were unhappy with the findings, and at least one organization called it invalid because of flaws in the methodology. They said it didn't conform to normal testing standards for police dogs.

Yet others handlers thanked her for the research and encouraged her to pursue more research, she said.

However, she said she continues to have trouble getting K-9 teams to volunteer to help her with her research.

CONSEQUENCES OF FALSE SIGNALS

When police dogs signal for drugs, there can be con*sequences even when no drugs are found. Police can seize money they find in the car if they believe the money has ties to drugs.

The legal standard is weak, lawyers say, and citizens who want their money back have to go through the court system, which can be costly. They often cite the 2009 case of a 22-year-old Indiana man pulled over for an unsafe lane change on an Indiana interstate.

The man, who had won $50,000 from a car accident settle*ment, was found with $17,500 that he later claimed was for the purchase of a new car for his aunt. A drug dog alerted to drugs in his car - twice - and police seized his money. No drugs were ever found, and Indiana authorities held his money for more than a year.

The American Civil Liberties Union of Nevada has received complaints from people concerned about the reliability of drug dogs, but Allen Lichtenstein, the organization's general counsel, said his office doesn't have the expertise to independently verify the claims.

"If it can be shown that drug dogs are being used as a ruse to pretend to have probable cause, that would be a very serious constitutional violation," Lichtenstein said.

Regardless of whether that allegation is proven - the case could be settled before it ever reaches a jury - the claims by three experts against their own department is extraordinary and could jeopardize criminal cases.

Las Vegas-based lawyer James Oronoz, who has defended people in drug cases, said the lawsuit could have a big ripple effect on the criminal defense community.

"I think it's probably in*cumbent upon any criminal defense attorney in town ... to really take a look at those (cases) and examine the circumstances under which they (police) made their affidavits," he said.

McKenna, the troopers' lawyer, said the case calls into question whether drug dogs should be given the kind of legal latitude they currently enjoy.

"The idea that dogs are the reason to get probable cause for searches really needs to be evaluated by the courts, by the police departments utilizing them and by defense attorneys," he said.

Moonin and Lee resigned from the Highway Patrol's K-9 program last year, amid concerns of legal abuses and claims that Department of Public Safety Director Chris Perry was dedicated to ruining the program. They're still troopers. Yarnall is no longer a paid consultant for the agency.

They declined to comment for this article through Mc*Kenna.

"They're just outraged that they were witness to citizens' rights being violated by these dogs that are currently out there that are trained to alert on cue," he said. "They just couldn't be part of that, and they just think it needs to be exposed."
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I always wondered about this, now I guess there is some basis on many peoples claims that the dog is just following a cue of the police officer to give the officers the right to do searches. I wonder how this will pan out. Link to news article
 

GroundedSailor

Platinum Member
Feb 18, 2001
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This is what it leads to - see bolded sections. We are slowly becoming a police state. They just have too many given and assumed powers. I have very little respect for law enforcement here.

I just hope those LEO's and doctors get locked up for a very long time.

http://www.elpasotimes.com/latestnews/ci_24750069/woman-sues-over-drug-search-after-crossing-at#

Woman sues over vaginal, anal exams in El Paso drug search
By Aaron Bracamontes / El Paso Times El Paso Times
Posted: ElpasoTimes.com

A New Mexico woman claims in a federal lawsuit that she underwent a brutal and inhumane six-hour full-body cavity search by federal officers that included anal and vaginal probes that made her feel like an "animal."

The woman, a Lovington, N.M. resident, also is suing University Medical Center, where she was forced to have an observed bowel movement, was X-rayed, had a speculum exam, vaginal exam and had a CT scan.

The suit claims the hospital "violated her" and then gave her the $5,000 bill. The lawsuit names the El Paso County Hospital District's Board of Managers, University Medical Center, Drs. Michael Parsa and Christopher Cabanillas, two unknown supervising U.S. Customs and Border Protection officers and two other CBP officers only identified by their last names of Portillo and Herrera as defendants. The doctors and the agents could not be reached for comment.

The 54-year-old woman, who is not identified in the suit, is asking for an unspecified amount of money and to end the policy that gives federal agents and officers the authority to stick their fingers and objects up people's cavities when they search for drugs.

The lawsuit was filed Wednesday by the American Civil Liberties Union in federal court in El Paso on behalf of the woman who was stopped as she crossed at the Bridge of the Americas a year ago. Despite the six-hour search at the port and then later at UMC, no drugs were found.

The woman is identified as Jane Doe in the lawsuit. According to the lawsuit, the woman was first frisked and strip-searched at the port of entry, where officers stuck their fingers inside her rectum and vagina. When that search came up negative, she was taken toUniversity Medical Center.

"These extreme and illegal searches deeply traumatized our client," ACLU of New Mexico Legal Director Laura Schauer Ives said in the news release. "The fact that our government treated an innocent 54-year-old woman with such brutality and inhumanity should outrage all Americans. We must ensure that government agents never put another person through a nightmare like this ever again."

A spokesman for U.S. Customs and Border Protection said in a prepared statement that the agency could not talk about a specific lawsuit. "As a practice CBP does not comment on pending litigation," the statement said. "CBP stresses honor and integrity in every aspect of our mission, and the overwhelming majority of CBP employees and officers perform their duties with honor and distinction, working tirelessly every day to keep our country safe. We do not tolerate corruption or abuse within our ranks, and we fully cooperate with any criminal or administrative investigations of alleged misconduct by any of our personnel, on or off-duty."

University Medical Center also declined to get into specifics of the lawsuit. "Hospital policy is to obtain consent from all patients who receive medical services at UMC," spokeswoman Margaret Altoff-Olivas said in a statement. "Because this case involves litigation, UMC will not be commenting further."

The search took place at about 2 p.m. Dec. 12, 2012, when the woman was coming back from seeing a family friend, whom she calls "uncle" and tries to visit once a month. As her passport was swiped, a CBP officer told her she was "randomly" picked for a secondary inspection, where Portillo and Herrera frisked her through her clothing. "One of the agents ran her finger over Ms. Doe's genital area during the frisk," the lawsuit said.

Then the woman was told to squat as one of the officers "inserted her finger in the crevice of Ms. Doe's buttocks." The frisk did not show any evidence of contraband or drugs, the lawsuit said.

Then the woman was told to stand in a line with other people as a drug-sniffing dog walked by. The officer with the dog "hit the ground by her feet, but did not hit the ground by any of the others in the line," the lawsuit said. "The dog responded by lunging onto Ms. Doe and landing its front paws on her torso."

Ives said she does not believe this was a proper signal to indicate a drugs were present, but officers used it to continue the search.

The woman was taken to another room and asked to take off her pants and crouch as her anus and vagina were examined with a flashlight, the lawsuit said. The woman, now crying, was taken to University Medical Center after the strip search did not find anything.

"During the car ride to the Medical Center, Ms. Doe asked if the agents had a warrant," the lawsuit said. "One of them responded that they did not need a warrant."

While handcuffed to an examination table, the woman was searched again by both officers and Cabanillas and Parsa. She was given a laxative and had a bowel movement in a portable toilet in front of both officers, the lawsuit said.

Then the woman's abdomen was X-rayed, but there were no signs of drugs or any other contraband in the woman's body. A speculum was used to probe her vagina and Parsa's fingers were used to inspect both her vagina and rectum while the door to the examining room was left open, the lawsuit said.

At this point the lawsuit claims, "Ms. Doe felt that she was being treated less than human, like an animal."

The last test was a CT scan of the woman's abdomen and pelvis, which resulted in no evidence of illegal activity being found.

The lawsuit said after the CT scan one of the officers told the woman she could sign the medical consent form and CBP would pay for the exams, but if she did not sign, she would be charged. The woman refused to sign and eventually she was charged more than $5,000 for the examinations.

According to the lawsuit, she repeatedly refused to consent to any of the searches.

University Medical Center's search of patients policy states, "Associates, members of Medical Staff, Residents or Allied Health Professionals may search a patient only when necessary to comply with a search warrant." Under the subhead procedure, the policy states, "...unless a patient consents, an invasion of the patient's body to obtain evidence requires a search warrant."

A warrant was not obtained, the lawsuit said.

"However, in practice, the Medical Center staff and CBP agents routinely conduct invasive cavity searches without warrant, consent or sufficient suspicion to justify the searches," the lawsuit said. "When Ms. Doe expressed dismay about the unreasonable searches she suffered, a Medical Center employee responded that these procedures were routinely followed when an individual is brought in by CBP agents."

In a phone interview, Ives said searches like the one the 54-year-old woman went through are illegal and becoming common among law enforcement. "When the less intrusive search didn't find any evidence of drugs, more intrusive searches should have not been used," Ives said. "Any one of those searches should have eliminated any suspicion of drugs. A second search should make it clear and at most a third search should have been the last."

She said: "The fact that this happened to a 54-year-old woman should outrage anyone. She did ask to talk to an attorney and she did ask for a warrant. I don't know what guarantees there are to our rights other than a lawsuit like this one that hold the government agencies responsible."

Last month, a Deming man sued Deming police officers who gave him three enemas, two anal probes and a colonoscopy after he was suspected of having drugs. The search found nothing, and lawyers for the man said the warrant used to conduct the search failed to show probable cause.
 

IronWing

No Lifer
Jul 20, 2001
72,071
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I've had my truck searched twice at Border Patrol checkpoints after the dog "found" something. One agent admitted (after searching the truck) that the dog got bored after awhile and would find something just to please his handler.
 

Daverino

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Mar 15, 2007
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The study was specifically designed to see whether the handler would give cues to the dog to produce a false positive if the handler was told that there would be explosives in the room. It was not designed to measure the overall effectiveness of the dogs themselves.

Scientific testing relies on how effective a test is at improving the prior probability to the posterior probability. A binary test like this (only two outcomes) can be measured both in terms of the of how much more likely a positive outcome is after the test and how much less likely a negative outcome is after the test. In the test above, only the negative outcomes were tested. And the researchers biased the handlers knowledge by stating that the prior probability of a negative was very low (or, equivalently, that the prior probability of a positive was very high). The question they were asking was whether the bias posed to the handler effected the dog's ability and the answer was yes.

So the meaning of the study doesn't call into question the dog's innate effectiveness at finding explosives or drugs. They never tested the cases where there actually was contraband for the dogs to find. But it does indicate a training problem because it shows that the handler thinking and the dog's behavior are not independent. If the handler strongly believes contraband is present, the dog can be convinced by the handler into giving a false positive. So if a handler is convinced that drugs will be found on a person's belonging because he looks Hispanic or that a bomb will be found because the individual is wearing a turban, the dog is much more likely to produce a false positive.
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,091
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The war on drugs proving once again what a futile and disasterous policy it has been for decades.
 

OverVolt

Lifer
Aug 31, 2002
14,278
89
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The study was specifically designed to see whether the handler would give cues to the dog to produce a false positive if the handler was told that there would be explosives in the room. It was not designed to measure the overall effectiveness of the dogs themselves.

Scientific testing relies on how effective a test is at improving the prior probability to the posterior probability. A binary test like this (only two outcomes) can be measured both in terms of the of how much more likely a positive outcome is after the test and how much less likely a negative outcome is after the test. In the test above, only the negative outcomes were tested. And the researchers biased the handlers knowledge by stating that the prior probability of a negative was very low (or, equivalently, that the prior probability of a positive was very high). The question they were asking was whether the bias posed to the handler effected the dog's ability and the answer was yes.

So the meaning of the study doesn't call into question the dog's innate effectiveness at finding explosives or drugs. They never tested the cases where there actually was contraband for the dogs to find. But it does indicate a training problem because it shows that the handler thinking and the dog's behavior are not independent. If the handler strongly believes contraband is present, the dog can be convinced by the handler into giving a false positive. So if a handler is convinced that drugs will be found on a person's belonging because he looks Hispanic or that a bomb will be found because the individual is wearing a turban, the dog is much more likely to produce a false positive.

I didn't even read any of the supporting stuff you really come full circle there. So what is your stance on this again? :p
 

Daverino

Platinum Member
Mar 15, 2007
2,004
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The war on drugs proving once again what a futile and disasterous policy it has been for decades.

Scent dogs do more than search for drugs. They search for explosives, contraband produce, firearms and even money.

I didn't even read any of the supporting stuff you really come full circle there. So what is your stance on this again? :p

I don't have a stance on it. I'm just stating that the headline is misleading. The dogs did not have an 85% 'failure rate.' That would imply that 85% of their detections were wrong. In other words, 85% of the time when it was not explosives they would detect it AND 85% of the time when it was a explosive they would fail to do so. Furthermore, it was the handler, not the dog, that responded that a scent was present. He or she may have done so regardless of whether the dog gave him a response.

But look at how the experiment was done. The handlers were told that a red piece of paper in the room represented a bomb. The handlers went in to the room and saw the paper. Through cues, the handlers were able to convince the dogs that the paper was a bomb, even though there was no bomb scent on the paper. 85% of the time, the handlers were able to convince their dogs to react to what they thought was a bomb, even though there was no scent. You can read the paper here, if you'd like. Jump to the conclusions for the summary.
 
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Doppel

Lifer
Feb 5, 2011
13,306
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The study was specifically designed to see whether the handler would give cues to the dog to produce a false positive if the handler was told that there would be explosives in the room. It was not designed to measure the overall effectiveness of the dogs themselves.

Scientific testing relies on how effective a test is at improving the prior probability to the posterior probability. A binary test like this (only two outcomes) can be measured both in terms of the of how much more likely a positive outcome is after the test and how much less likely a negative outcome is after the test. In the test above, only the negative outcomes were tested. And the researchers biased the handlers knowledge by stating that the prior probability of a negative was very low (or, equivalently, that the prior probability of a positive was very high). The question they were asking was whether the bias posed to the handler effected the dog's ability and the answer was yes.

So the meaning of the study doesn't call into question the dog's innate effectiveness at finding explosives or drugs. They never tested the cases where there actually was contraband for the dogs to find. But it does indicate a training problem because it shows that the handler thinking and the dog's behavior are not independent. If the handler strongly believes contraband is present, the dog can be convinced by the handler into giving a false positive. So if a handler is convinced that drugs will be found on a person's belonging because he looks Hispanic or that a bomb will be found because the individual is wearing a turban, the dog is much more likely to produce a false positive.
It's true, it doesn't question the dogs, it questions the handlers. Considering 100% of dogs across the entire planet have handlers, though, the end result is the same.
 

Ackmed

Diamond Member
Oct 1, 2003
8,498
560
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Idiotic thread title, and flat out wrong.

But to those with an agenda, it's just about right.

Far too much to read, was there every any drugs or explosives in the room before the test. And then removed? If not, pretty bad sign for the dog handlers.
 

Nintendesert

Diamond Member
Mar 28, 2010
7,761
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Dogs don't operate without handlers, so what's the bitchfest over the title for?

Far too much to read? Why comment then? Go take your Ritalin.
 

KB

Diamond Member
Nov 8, 1999
5,406
389
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Anyone who knows dogs has to know this. Dogs love to please. Also when they find something they are often given a reward for finding it. If you give a reward to a human for doing something they will continue to do it until the reward stops. Dogs are the same. I am glad that someone has finally done a study to show what is obvious is actually true.
 

ch33zw1z

Lifer
Nov 4, 2004
39,065
19,770
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Idiotic thread title, and flat out wrong.

But to those with an agenda, it's just about right.

Far too much to read, was there every any drugs or explosives in the room before the test. And then removed? If not, pretty bad sign for the dog handlers.

Wow, far too much to read when your 4th amendment rights are being violated?

Read it. It matters.

"Those with an agenda" are very LEO's who use the K9's to gain access to your vehicle by creating probable cause out of thing air, aka cuing the dog... Read the fucking article.

They're agenda is obvious, prove their value to society, keep their jobs, get a pay raise. Just like each one of us has to do everyday at work...prove our worth.
 
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werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
126
Anyone who knows dogs has to know this. Dogs love to please. Also when they find something they are often given a reward for finding it. If you give a reward to a human for doing something they will continue to do it until the reward stops. Dogs are the same. I am glad that someone has finally done a study to show what is obvious is actually true.
They ran a drug dog all over my nephew's brand new Mustang in high school, scratching the hell out of it. When they fetched the kid they were investigating, he told them that wasn't his car. When they tracked down my nephew and made him open up the car, the dog climbed all through his car (doing more damage) without alerting on anything. The dog merely gets excited with the searching, which the handler interprets as having found something. But hey, at least they didn't plant drugs. Although personally, I don't think clipping the nails on a hundred pound dog before it's allowed to climb over someone's car is not too much of a hardship to impose.

Ironically, my nephew was a high school athlete subject to random drug tests, so had he been using, he would already have been caught without trashing his car. (Evidently high golfers are a major societal problem. I suppose that's why they dress like that . . .)
 

HumblePie

Lifer
Oct 30, 2000
14,665
440
126
It's true, it doesn't question the dogs, it questions the handlers. Considering 100% of dogs across the entire planet have handlers, though, the end result is the same.

This.

You can not have drug dogs working independently and autonomously. They require handlers. The handlers will always influence the behaviors of the dogs.
 

HumblePie

Lifer
Oct 30, 2000
14,665
440
126
Anyone who knows dogs has to know this. Dogs love to please. Also when they find something they are often given a reward for finding it. If you give a reward to a human for doing something they will continue to do it until the reward stops. Dogs are the same. I am glad that someone has finally done a study to show what is obvious is actually true.

Yep this as well. When you are rewarded for "finding things" you are going to always try to find something. K9 units don't like being called out to a traffic stop unless they "find" something. Dogs do it for the praise as well as the humans. The cops get to make a "career" move of "finding" something through illegal means.

The current problem with justice in our society is the rewarding of those who punish for punishing others. Reward cops for "finding" a criminal. Reward the lawyer for "convicting" a criminal. Reward jails for "housing" as much criminals. You get a system we have today were too many innocents are put in jail for shit they shouldn't have been.
 
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