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Test shows voter fraud is possible

conjur

No Lifer
http://www.tallahassee.com/mld/tallahassee/11811936.htm
All it takes is the right access.

Get that, and an election worker could manipulate voting results in the computers that read paper ballots - without leaving any digital fingerprints.

That was the verdict after Leon County Elections Supervisor Ion Sancho invited a team of researchers to look for holes in election software.

The group wasn't able to crack the Diebold system from outside the office. But, at the computer itself, they changed vote tallies, completely unrecorded.

Sancho said it illustrates the need for tight physical security, as well as a paper trail that can verify results, which the Legislature has rejected.

Black Box Voting, the non-profit that ran the test and published a report on the Internet, pointed to the findings as proof of an elections system clearly vulnerable to corruption.

But state officials in charge of overseeing elections pooh-poohed the test process and dismissed the group's report.

"Information on a blog site is not viable or credible," said Jenny Nash, a spokeswoman for the Department of State.

It went like this:

Sancho figured Leon County's security could withstand just about any sort of probing and wanted to prove it.

He went to one of the most skeptical - and vocal - watchdogs of election procedures. Bev Harris, founder of Black Box Voting, had experience with voting machines across the country.

She recruited two computer-security experts and made the trip to Tallahassee from her home in Washington state three times between February and late May.

Leon County is one of 30 counties in Florida that use Diebold optical scanners. Voters darken bubbles on a sheet of paper, sort of like filling in the answers on the SAT, and the scanners read them and add up the numbers.

So the task was simple. Get in, tamper with vote numbers, and get out clean.

They made their first attempts from outside the building. No success.

Then, they sat down at the vote-counting computers, the sort of access to the machines an employee might have. For the crackers, security protocols were no problem, passwords unnecessary.

They simply went around them.

After that, the security experts accomplished two things that should not have been possible.

They made 65,000 votes disappear simply by changing the real memory card - which stores the numbers - for one that had been altered.

And, while the software is supposed to create a record whenever someone makes changes to data stored in the system, it showed no evidence they'd managed to access and change information.

When they were done, they printed the poll tapes. Those are paper records, like cash register tape, that show the official numbers on the memory cards.

Two tapes, with different results. And the only way to tell the fake one?

At the bottom, it read, "Is this real? Or is it Memorex?"

"That was troubling," Sancho said.

Leon County more secure

A disaster?

Not exactly.

In Leon County, access to the machines is strictly controlled, limited to a single employee. The memory cards are kept locked away, and they're tracked by serial number.

Those precautions help prevent any tampering.

"You've got to have security over the individual who's accessing the system," Sancho said. In fact, "you've got to have good security and control over every step of this process."

The trouble is, not every county is as closely run.

In Volusia County, her group has found what they think was memory-card tampering during the 2000 election. More than 16,000 votes for Al Gore vanished.

Harris said her research turned up memos - obtained from the elections supervisor's office - that blamed the failure on an extra memory card that showed up, and disappeared, without explanation.

She believes that was an attempt to change the outcome of the election, but one carried out clumsily. The test in Leon County proved it was possible, if done by more experienced computer programmers, she said.

So what does the Department of State say?

Nash, the spokeswoman, said that the Diebold systems were designed to be used in secure settings, and that, by giving the testers direct access to the computers, Sancho had basically allowed them to bypass security.

In other words, not much of a test.

Except that the security experts were given only as much opportunity as any other election worker would have. Less so, considering that Sancho did not provide them with passwords or any other way to actually get into the programming.

As for the exact vulnerabilities that Harris reported - and Sancho confirmed - Nash said no one from the state could comment, since they hadn't been present at the test.

She added later that Sancho could request help from state certifiers if he had concerns, but had not asked yet.

To read the entire report, visit http://www.BlackBoxVoting.org.

Ion Sancho, supervisor of elections, will post a summary of the test results this weekend at www.leonfl.org/elect/
Nope...not a single problem with our voting process. Companies like ChoicePoint DBT, Diebold, and ES&S have nothing but the best interests of the country at heart. People like Katherine Harris and Ken Blackwell are fine, upstanding, and honest individuals who never once worked to be sure elections had a specific outcome.

Believe all of that and I have some oceanfront property in Arizona you're likely interested in buying.


Listen to the Brad Show Right Now to hear more about the evidence of fraud:
http://rawstory.com/contact/support_raw_radio_416.php#listen
 
sad when a place like the ukraine demands democracy over freakin exit polls, but americans swallow this hook line and sinker....

america is VERY lucky our left is so tolerant...and americans as a whole so apathetic...this crap would have a country in flames anywhere else, well a more democratic place at least.

I am sure this crap thrills the iraqis as they peek out their window at tanks supposedly bringing them our democracy...poor bastards....at least we know we are screwed with a bankrupt and corrupt democracy since we were children...
(well those who use their head)
 
Listening to this discussion is rather unnerving. People like Bev Harris and others deserve a Congressional Medal of Honor for their work.
 
i have to agree with infohawk, the electoral process should never be in doubt. are all you conservatives going to swallow it the next election in which a liberal is elected? maybe not this coming time, or the time after that but we all know the pendulum will swing the other way someday.
 
Originally posted by: Duckzilla
Originally posted by: conjur
"Listening to this discussion is rather unnerving..."
LOL, only to people like you. Of course voter fraud is possible.
This isn't voter fraud. This is election fraud. This is the altering or destruction of votes by people working in precincts or county election commissions or voting systems vendors.
 
Guess you can count on libs blaming diebold instead of the lenient run counties. They have to give SOMEONE access to the computers.
 
Originally posted by: zendari
Guess you can count on libs blaming diebold instead of the lenient run counties. They have to give SOMEONE access to the computers.

I wonder why Diebold is suspect?


http://www.countthevote.org/
Walden O'Dell, Diebold's CEO who is also a fund-raiser for President Bush and who told fellow Republicans in Ohio that he was "committed to helping Ohio deliver its electoral votes to the president next year."
 
Originally posted by: conjur
Originally posted by: Duckzilla
Originally posted by: conjur
"Listening to this discussion is rather unnerving..."
LOL, only to people like you. Of course voter fraud is possible.
This isn't voter fraud. This is election fraud. This is the altering or destruction of votes by people working in precincts or county election commissions or voting systems vendors.

And so far there hasnt been any evidence of actual election fraud. Just allegations with no proof. This is why it is not taken seriously. Because it would never even come close to passing a legal challenge. You have no physical evidence. A few hearsay witnesses that say they saw something, but cant name names, or offer physical evidence. And then you have people saying, yes an inside job could alter the votes.

I got news for you. Doesnt matter the format, an inside job would always be able to alter the vote tally.
 
Originally posted by: digitalsm
You have no physical evidence.
Part of the problem is there is no physical record. Why not restore confidence by having a paper trail?

I got news for you. Doesnt matter the format, an inside job would always be able to alter the vote tally.
BS. Get outside uninterested observers.
 
Originally posted by: Infohawk
Originally posted by: digitalsm
You have no physical evidence.
Part of the problem is there is no physical record. Why not restore confidence by having a paper trail?

I got news for you. Doesnt matter the format, an inside job would always be able to alter the vote tally.
BS. Get outside uninterested observers.

Like who? How do you pin someone as "uninterested"?

I do agree that several changes need to be made with the voting process, but I don't think Diebold alone is at fault.
 
Somewhere in all this partisan bickering, gentlemen, the point is lost. It really doesn't matter who won or who lost the last election, what matters is that maintaining and improving the integrity of the voting process is in the best interests of all Americans.

Clearly, the efforts of BBV should illustrate that the current crop of electronic voting machines are greivously flawed in this respect, and that the vendors are either malicious or negligent. The idea that Diebold might be incompetent seems unlikely, given that their lines of ATM machines are built to a higher standard. It also seems apparent that officials on both sides of the aisle are all too eager to disallow hand recounts to verify the electronic results, which, given proprietary software, is the only way to truly verify the accuracy of electronic methods.

Your allegation, digitalsm, wrt to the idea that an inside job could always alter the totals w/o detection is facetious, and absurd. The adoption of standardized, properly designed machines running published open source software would effectively eliminate the possibility of fraud of any kind, given that millions of geeks worldwide would be scrutinizing every transistor gate, every bit and byte, attempting to make a name for themselves by revealing vulnerability, as has been done many times in the past. The urge to publish such findings immediately is imperative, as somebody else will very likely beat the discoverer to the punch if they dally, steal the limelight.

We owe it to ourselves, and to our descendants, to do what we can to improve the accuracy of vote tallies, the fairness and ease of voting, to enhance the legitimacy of our election process. Failure to act on information even suggesting that the vote can be rigged is foolish, and perhaps even dishonest. We already have severe issues wrt the legitimacy of govt in general, and we certainly don't need any questions about the mechanics of the election process itself to further degrade the situation.
 
remind me to never to vote ever. waste of my time, its pointless when you're votes do not count or are altered to favor the other guy.
 
Originally posted by: Jhhnn
Somewhere in all this partisan bickering, gentlemen, the point is lost. It really doesn't matter who won or who lost the last election, what matters is that maintaining and improving the integrity of the voting process is in the best interests of all Americans.

Clearly, the efforts of BBV should illustrate that the current crop of electronic voting machines are greivously flawed in this respect, and that the vendors are either malicious or negligent. The idea that Diebold might be incompetent seems unlikely, given that their lines of ATM machines are built to a higher standard. It also seems apparent that officials on both sides of the aisle are all too eager to disallow hand recounts to verify the electronic results, which, given proprietary software, is the only way to truly verify the accuracy of electronic methods.

Your allegation, digitalsm, wrt to the idea that an inside job could always alter the totals w/o detection is facetious, and absurd. The adoption of standardized, properly designed machines running published open source software would effectively eliminate the possibility of fraud of any kind, given that millions of geeks worldwide would be scrutinizing every transistor gate, every bit and byte, attempting to make a name for themselves by revealing vulnerability, as has been done many times in the past. The urge to publish such findings immediately is imperative, as somebody else will very likely beat the discoverer to the punch if they dally, steal the limelight.

We owe it to ourselves, and to our descendants, to do what we can to improve the accuracy of vote tallies, the fairness and ease of voting, to enhance the legitimacy of our election process. Failure to act on information even suggesting that the vote can be rigged is foolish, and perhaps even dishonest. We already have severe issues wrt the legitimacy of govt in general, and we certainly don't need any questions about the mechanics of the election process itself to further degrade the situation.

:heart:
 
Originally posted by: judasmachine
i have to agree with infohawk, the electoral process should never be in doubt.
The electoral process is fine. It;s the record-keeping that needs work.
are all you conservatives going to swallow it the next election in which a liberal is elected? maybe not this coming time, or the time after that but we all know the pendulum will swing the other way someday.
If a liberal is elected, yes. But I didn't even get a liberal on my ballot in GA, so what makes you think any liberal will be elected in '08? Chances are actually pretty good I won't even bother voting if I can't be sure it will be recorded on a piece of paper, and then counted from that paper.
 
Originally posted by: Jhhnn
Somewhere in all this partisan bickering, gentlemen, the point is lost. It really doesn't matter who won or who lost the last election, what matters is that maintaining and improving the integrity of the voting process is in the best interests of all Americans.

Clearly, the efforts of BBV should illustrate that the current crop of electronic voting machines are greivously flawed in this respect, and that the vendors are either malicious or negligent. The idea that Diebold might be incompetent seems unlikely, given that their lines of ATM machines are built to a higher standard. It also seems apparent that officials on both sides of the aisle are all too eager to disallow hand recounts to verify the electronic results, which, given proprietary software, is the only way to truly verify the accuracy of electronic methods.

Your allegation, digitalsm, wrt to the idea that an inside job could always alter the totals w/o detection is facetious, and absurd. The adoption of standardized, properly designed machines running published open source software would effectively eliminate the possibility of fraud of any kind, given that millions of geeks worldwide would be scrutinizing every transistor gate, every bit and byte, attempting to make a name for themselves by revealing vulnerability, as has been done many times in the past. The urge to publish such findings immediately is imperative, as somebody else will very likely beat the discoverer to the punch if they dally, steal the limelight.

We owe it to ourselves, and to our descendants, to do what we can to improve the accuracy of vote tallies, the fairness and ease of voting, to enhance the legitimacy of our election process. Failure to act on information even suggesting that the vote can be rigged is foolish, and perhaps even dishonest. We already have severe issues wrt the legitimacy of govt in general, and we certainly don't need any questions about the mechanics of the election process itself to further degrade the situation.

Nice

 
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