Tesla turns off autopilot unless you pay extra.

Newbian

Lifer
Aug 24, 2008
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Tesla has recent identified instances of customers being incorrectly configured for Autopilot versions that they did not pay for. Since, there was an audit done to correct these instances. Your vehicle is one of the vehicles that was incorrectly configured for Autopilot. We looked back at your purchase history and unfortunately Full-Self Driving was not a feature that you had paid for. We apologize for the confusion. If you are still interested in having those additional features we can begin the process to purchase the upgrade.

If they can do this now I worry when it actually becomes the norm and it gets hacked.

Moved from OT.
admin allisolm
 
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Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
51,096
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This is the key right here:

The owner in question, who Jalopnik refers to as Alec, purchased the car last December. The dealer bought the car a month earlier from a Tesla auction, with both “Enhanced Autopilot” and “Full Self Driving Mode” features intact, according to Jalopnik, which reviewed documents related to the car’s ownership and sale.


I think Tesla needs to clarify whether this policy is for a reusable DLC or not. imo, if you buy it with the car, it stays with the car forever - no take-backs. Particularly if it's listed on the legal documents. They need to clarify this ASAP.
 

Sonikku

Lifer
Jun 23, 2005
15,886
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What a load of shit. You can bet that this $8k feature is a factor in its used selling price. If buying used Tesla means forfeiting $8k worth of features, then used car prices should cost $8k less than they currently do. People selling their Tesla aren't going to be happy to see it lose so much value on top of the usual depreciation.
 

ponyo

Lifer
Feb 14, 2002
19,688
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You guys are not getting the full story. If it involves Tesla, always question the source of the news until you've verified and know the complete story.

https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/posts/4464083/

AP/FSD is tied to the car. That car was returned to Tesla. Tesla strips vehicles of options before they resell them. A used-dealer purchased the stripped car from Tesla at an auction, and then sold it to a buyer, telling them that it came with FSD even though FSD had already disappeared before delivery - which the dealer tried to convince them was a "glitch" and pointed to the Monroney sticker (which only describes how the car was when the first buyer received it) to insist that it had FSD.

I trust KarenRei explanation over any fake news outlets.
 
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Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
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You guys are not getting the full story. If it involves Tesla, always question the source of the news until you've verified and know the complete story.

https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/posts/4464083/

I trust KarenRei explanation over any fake news outlets.

Either Tesla is behaving sleazily or a used care dealer is. I'd say the odds are with the latter. But Tesla should do better to avoid this. If they sold the car with it disabled, remove the sticker saying it's enabled? They're partly at fault for selling it enabled and later finding they made a mistake and disabling it?
 

Exterous

Super Moderator
Jun 20, 2006
20,568
3,760
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Either Tesla is behaving sleazily or a used care dealer is. I'd say the odds are with the latter. But Tesla should do better to avoid this. If they sold the car with it disabled, remove the sticker saying it's enabled? They're partly at fault for selling it enabled and later finding they made a mistake and disabling it?

Do we know Tesla put the sticker on it? It's only required for new vehicles so they may not have
 

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
51,096
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I trust KarenRei explanation over any fake news outlets.

Tesla 100% needs to be more clear about this, if this is the case:

KarenRei: AP/FSD is tied to the car. That car was returned to Tesla. Tesla strips vehicles of options before they resell them. A used-dealer purchased the stripped car from Tesla at an auction, and then sold it to a buyer, telling them that it came with FSD even though FSD had already disappeared before delivery - which the dealer tried to convince them was a "glitch" and pointed to the Monroney sticker (which only describes how the car was when the first buyer received it) to insist that it had FSD.

This obviously makes sense, as it adds another free revenue stream for Tesla, but they need to get really super clear about that to the public & state that (1) your AP/FSD purchase doesn't follow you into your next car, and (2) it doesn't follow your car if it gets sold.

The next question is, what if you change owners? Say, put it under your wife's name as the primary - does it strip out the DLC then too, or only if it goes BACK to Tesla first? imo, that's a super crummy thing to do. I mean, people do it all the time with hardware - the Monroney sticker may say a 6-cylinder, but maybe they swapped it out with an 8-cylinder engine, so it doesn't match. But Tesla isn't clear & public about how they do things & what the workflow is like. Bad PR in any case.
 

Greenman

Lifer
Oct 15, 1999
22,111
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You guys are not getting the full story. If it involves Tesla, always question the source of the news until you've verified and know the complete story.

https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/posts/4464083/



I trust KarenRei explanation over any fake news outlets.
Except that Tesla didn't shut down the software in question until after the car was resold. I don't like that even a little bit. I don't like the manufacturer having that much control over the vehicle.
 

herm0016

Diamond Member
Feb 26, 2005
8,515
1,128
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The features bought with the car and on the window sticker/door sticker/attached to the vin should stay with the car forever. I cant think of anything that looses features or capacity when you sell it. if they are going to do this, every car should be a user license and a lease and tesla should hold the titles.

what's to stop them from cutting the battery capacity down to the lowest level every time a car sells, and then make you pay for the upgrade again?


its akin to extortion. you can't have the thing you already bought unless you pay us more.

also, as to sources: Tesla fan clubs are not exactly without bias.
 

Viper GTS

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
38,107
433
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Tesla does not strip all used vehicles, there are plenty of FSD enabled used Model S on their website.

This is a weird situation that Tesla needs to clarify if they want to continue selling software enabled features post delivery.

This general unknown area + the likely regulatory hurdles necessary to get FSD out into the world makes buying the option now extremely unappealing. I'm not at all convinced that FSD would be valued properly in the event of an insured loss, on resale/trade-in, etc + I'm not sure I'll still have the car by the time FSD is fully enabled/approved for use. Maybe on my third one by the time that happens, but the first two will not have it.

Viper GTS
 

rstrohkirch

Platinum Member
May 31, 2005
2,434
367
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As mentioned in the story, this was a returned vehicle, a buy back. If Tesla wants to remove options for vehicles that they buy back then I don't see the issue with this. The original customer was given their refund and Tesla owns this car again. I do feel there will be confusion though as no other manufacturer removes non-subscription services from their vehicles even if they are dumping buy backs. So it'll lead to confusion on the part of used customers and second hand dealers.

If this is going to be a practice for them on buy backs then they could simply produce new monroney stickers for the buy backs they send to auction. The fact that people at the auction may not have known this car was missing a $7k feature while bidding on the vehicle is another issue.
 
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Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
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Do we know Tesla put the sticker on it? It's only required for new vehicles so they may not have

It sounded clear that Tesla did when they sold the car new with the feature, and left it on when they re-sold it the second time - as they said, they hadn't checked and left the feature on.
 

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
33,986
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Except that Tesla didn't shut down the software in question until after the car was resold. I don't like that even a little bit. I don't like the manufacturer having that much control over the vehicle.
why? It was Tesla`s vehicle......they can do as they please, once it is returned to them!
Plus the dealer of the vehicle could have put the sticker on...
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
111,738
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Even if Tesla disabled it before selling it at auction, they are still charging double for a feature that should just exist on the car, and has already been paid for in the original purchase price and thus actual used value of the car.

This is some bullshit monetization.

Dealer may be sleazy for selling it as if the feature was enabled, but I see no reason to excuse Tesla from disabling a feature that was already purchased an enabled. Since when has that ever been acceptable?

The hardware is already there.
 

jlee

Lifer
Sep 12, 2001
48,518
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Even if Tesla disabled it before selling it at auction, they are still charging double for a feature that should just exist on the car, and has already been paid for in the original purchase price and thus actual used value of the car.

This is some bullshit monetization.

Dealer may be sleazy for selling it as if the feature was enabled, but I see no reason to excuse Tesla from disabling a feature that was already purchased an enabled. Since when has that ever been acceptable?

The hardware is already there.

Tesla bought it. It's their car to do with as they please.

The hardware is already there for a brand new car too -- you still have to pay to use it.
 

manly

Lifer
Jan 25, 2000
13,197
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ponyo sounds like POTUS. If the story doesn't agree with your narrative, it's "fake news." Of course we know he's the biggest TSLA shareholder/shill on this board.

Even if the party at fault here was an unscrupulous used car dealer, it's still a shady move by Tesla. I don't know what the purchase fine print says but I'd assume that when you pay $8k for a software license, it's a perpetual license attached to the hardware. This is distinctly different from a subscription model. Let's say Tesla chose to sell AP for $500 annual fee. They would get recurring revenue, and car owners would subscribe and sometimes unsubscribe at will. Nobody would question that the license is perpetual or even transferable. If the fine print indeed states that AP/FSD features are tied to the first purchaser, then fine, Tesla is acting legally. But logically it's still shady.

Sounds like zin just beat me to the punch! :p
 

rstrohkirch

Platinum Member
May 31, 2005
2,434
367
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Even if the party at fault here was an unscrupulous used car dealer, it's still a shady move by Tesla. I don't know what the purchase fine print says but I'd assume that when you pay $8k for a software license, it's a perpetual license attached to the hardware.

If it was a traditional buy back then essentially no one paid for the feature as the original buyer would have been given a full reimbursement for the vehicle. It's only shady on Tesla's part if they did not communicate to anyone at the auction that the car was missing feature. Which may have been the case.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
350
126
Even if Tesla disabled it before selling it at auction, they are still charging double for a feature that should just exist on the car, and has already been paid for in the original purchase price and thus actual used value of the car.

That was how I reacted at first, but then if Tesla refunded the $8K to the original buy, it's no longer 'purchased' and not charging double. But they should be clear whether the car has the feature nor not, and apparently that's not the case, selling it as having it then noticing they mistake and removing it.
 

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
33,986
3,321
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II see nothing wrong!! The guy purchased the car at an AUCTION!!


A fellow identified as Alec in this Verge story bought a Tesla at an auction, which was advertised as having “Enhanced Autopilot” and “Full Self Driving Mode.” Soon after Alec started driving the car, these features were deactivated without warning. Alec contacted Tesla and received the following explanation:

Tesla has recent identified instances of customers being incorrectly configured for Autopilot versions that they did not pay for. Since, there was an audit done to correct these instances. Your vehicle is one of the vehicles that was incorrectly configured for Autopilot. We looked back at your purchase history and unfortunately Full-Self Driving was not a feature that you had paid for. We apologize for the confusion. If you are still interested in having those additional features we can begin the process to purchase the upgrade.
If Alec wants to get these software features reactivated he'll have to pay Telsa $8,000 to get them to press a keyboard button.

With a normal car’s built-in features, even ones that may depend on software, it’s reasonable to think a technician or mechanic would need to physically access the car to remove it. Even with a technology product like a laptop or smartphone, updates generally can’t be forcibly rolled back without the consent of the owner — unless the device has special IT software installed. In those cases, the company generally owns the device or has the owner sign a legal agreement anyhow.

Tesla’s over-the-air updates have caused anxiety before. This kind of control by a carmaker wasn’t possible until recently, and Alec’s situation raises questions about what used car owners can expect in the future.
 

theeedude

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
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Dumb move by Tesla. This means that incremental resale value of Autopilot option is going to be discounted based on perceived risk of it being turned off. If I am buying a used Tesla, I am not going to be jumping through hoops checking if all the licensing is in order, I am going to assume the worst and not spend thousands of dollars for a software option that can disappear at any time Tesla decides to "correct" it.
 

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
33,986
3,321
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Dumb move by Tesla. This means that incremental resale value of Autopilot option is going to be discounted based on perceived risk of it being turned off. If I am buying a used Tesla, I am not going to be jumping through hoops checking if all the licensing is in order, I am going to assume the worst and not spend thousands of dollars for a software option that can disappear at any time Tesla decides to "correct" it.
Tesla Won`t turn off the option of you paid for the option!
Apparently from reading the article the car was not purchased with the option the first time it was sold!
 

theeedude

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,197
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BTW, if Tesla sold the car "AS-IS" at auction, as far as I am concerned, all the features that were on it at the time of sale need to be left on the car. Otherwise it's not "AS-IS" anymore. If dealer went to auction, sat in the car, and the system showed as enabled, unless there was a disclaimer that Autopilot will be turned off, then Tesla presented the car as having Autopilot, no take-backs.
 

theeedude

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,197
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Tesla Won`t turn off the option of you paid for the option!
Apparently from reading the article the car was not purchased with the option the first time it was sold!
When I am buying a car, I test drive it. If the option works when I test drive it, then it's offered for sale with that option. I make the decision based on what option work when I test drive it. If Tesla is saying that what you see on test drive might not be what you get, then fine, but then I am going to assume the option is not there when deciding what price to pay.
 

theeedude

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,197
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When the dealer bought the car at auction from Tesla on November 15, it was optioned with both Enhanced Autopilot and Tesla’s confusingly-named Full Self Driving Capability; together, these options totaled $8,000. A disclosure statement from Tesla to the dealership at the time of the sale does not mention anything about Autopilot or FSD removal
Open and shut case. Tesla presented this car as having those features, and then pulled a bait and switch and disabled them. Tesla should stop damaging its own brand reputation and restore the functionality that dealer and in turn customer both paid for in good faith.
Edit:
Looks like Tesla folded and did exactly that: