Tesla slams NYT review of Model S as "Fake"

Discussion in 'The Garage' started by mmntech, Feb 12, 2013.

  1. phucheneh

    phucheneh Diamond Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2012
    Messages:
    7,313
    Likes Received:
    0
    I was gonna say that I'd unplug his car, 'plug' it into the non-EV next to him in a creative way, then hide in the bushes and wait for an altercation.:ninja:

    (ok, I wouldn't do that...but the thought amuses me)
     
  2. Arkaign

    Arkaign Lifer

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2006
    Messages:
    19,305
    Likes Received:
    0
    Oh man, lol. That would be crappy. But people suck, so we should definitely expect it.
     
  3. Bateluer

    Bateluer Lifer

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2001
    Messages:
    27,733
    Likes Received:
    1

    Because I read several comments on the Google+ posting about this that said the writer was thinking like a typical 'petrol' user, and as a typical petrol user driving an electric car, I'd be plugging the damn thing in. :p
     
  4. thescreensavers

    thescreensavers Diamond Member

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2005
    Messages:
    9,926
    Likes Received:
    0
    Yep, you would think so. There was a leaf Parked next to the Engineering Building at school. I joked about unplugging it but I finally talked to the owner he says he gets Texts and Emails when it gets unplugged.

    So Its an inconvenience to them but they will prob plug it back in.

    So the Prank turns into how much can I annoy this electric cars owner lol
     
  5. LTC8K6

    LTC8K6 Lifer

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2004
    Messages:
    23,674
    Likes Received:
    4
    Yes, I think we have all heard the claim that it was user neglect. I don't think it's entirely clear, though. I see no reason to just accept Tesla's version of events.

    However, that's what users do with cars. Leave them sit for a week or two or three. Leave them at the airport for a week. Etc. You drive to the airport, and leave your car. There's likely no convenient way to fully charge it and then leave it in many situations. Besides, it can be awkward to have to do so.
     
    #30 LTC8K6, Feb 12, 2013
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2013
  6. LTC8K6

    LTC8K6 Lifer

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2004
    Messages:
    23,674
    Likes Received:
    4
    The self-discharge rate of lithium ion cells varies quite a bit and isn't easy to pin down, apparently.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium_ion_battery
     
  7. imagoon

    imagoon Diamond Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2003
    Messages:
    5,199
    Likes Received:
    0
    I also see no reason to accept what has been purely users complaining on the net. No true third party testing has been done. Until we see concrete tested evidence that there is a fault in the cars that is killing the batteries, it is Toyota "stuck accelerators" all over again.

    This isn't even "new" same thing happens to people who leave motorcycles sitting all winter without a tender or the people that let a phone run down to 0 and leave it sitting for 3 months. You replace the battery and move on. In this case it is a $40,000 mistake rather than $40.
     
  8. LTC8K6

    LTC8K6 Lifer

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2004
    Messages:
    23,674
    Likes Received:
    4
    I don't think it's a fault in the cars.

    It's just the nature of the batteries Tesla used, and something Tesla likely doesn't want to talk about too much.

    Perhaps it shouldn't be so easy to make a $40K mistake?

    It's not like this is new info about such batteries.

    Besides, Musk just took a jab at Boeing about the 787 battery problems.

    Maybe he should just keep his mouth shut and worry about Tesla cars and making enough money to stay afloat?
     
  9. bigi

    bigi Golden Member

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2001
    Messages:
    1,684
    Likes Received:
    1
    Its oil industry "sponsored" article/"author" and NYT. Same as those ugly english big dude who blows himself for ratings.

    Nothing new here. Typical petrol people denial. Yes, denial it is a first stage but eventually it ends up with acceptance.
     
  10. LTC8K6

    LTC8K6 Lifer

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2004
    Messages:
    23,674
    Likes Received:
    4
    This "supercharging" is only available on models with the 85KWH pack, or on the models with the 60Kwh pack as an extra cost option. The base models can't use the superchargers.

    So if the reporter had been given a different model, he wouldn't even have had the use of the stations, and likely couldn't have made the trip at all.

    Seems odd that the models that would need the supercharging the most, the ones with the smaller batteries, can't use it. Maybe it shortens the life of the smaller batteries too much?

     
  11. LTC8K6

    LTC8K6 Lifer

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2004
    Messages:
    23,674
    Likes Received:
    4
    You would think Tesla wouldn't give him a car to evaluate... :biggrin:
     
  12. imagoon

    imagoon Diamond Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2003
    Messages:
    5,199
    Likes Received:
    0
    I would guess that you are in the right area. Most cells have a max charge and discharge rate. The smaller battery pack is likely less total cells over all. IE is 1 cell can take 1AH then 4 cells (the bigger pack) should be able to take 4AH (completely random example). It is also possible that the electrical interconnects are smaller and it would over heat the wiring also.
     
  13. PricklyPete

    PricklyPete Lifer

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2002
    Messages:
    14,008
    Likes Received:
    7
    Musk is a twit and electric cars are far from perfect...but I love what Tesla is doing. I love the tech, I love the performance, and it even looks good/is somewhat functional.
     
  14. Dari

    Dari Lifer

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2002
    Messages:
    16,987
    Likes Received:
    0
    It is $8K, $10K, and $12K to replace the 40, 60, and 85kWh batteries after the end of the warranty, respectfully.

    Also, I find it odd people here complaining about the range in these Tesla cars. People that buy these cars know damn well what they're getting into. They don't treat it like an ICE car because it isn't. Also, what's with the double standard when it comes to this car versus an ICE car? Drive an ICE car hard and you will get less miles per gallon. Same thing with the Tesla. But, somehow, this becomes an issue in the Tesla but not the ICE car...
     
  15. Ferzerp

    Ferzerp Diamond Member

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 1999
    Messages:
    6,107
    Likes Received:
    1
    Because refueling is a 10 minute inconvenience and recharging is an hours long delay. Don't be purposefully dense.
     
    #40 Ferzerp, Feb 13, 2013
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2013
  16. imagoon

    imagoon Diamond Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2003
    Messages:
    5,199
    Likes Received:
    0
    I think those are the prepaid replacements when you buy the car. That doesn't include the labor does it? The 32k -> 40k did come from the people complaining about not charging the car for months so who knows.
     
  17. Brovane

    Brovane Diamond Member

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2001
    Messages:
    3,829
    Likes Received:
    0
    In my opinion I think like to treat the Tesla like any other ICE car and it is not. Also currently a ICE car is more flexible than a electric car. When you buy a electric car you make some compromises. However for some people those compromises are ok for them to buy a electric car. If you look hard enough you can find something that a electric car cannot do that a regular ICE car can handle easily. Cold weather is one of those things. It is well known that electric cars suffer loss of range in cold weather. That is just the current state of the technology. How much loss of range is open to debate. However Tesla is only trying to sell 20,000 of these cars a year which in the overall car market isn't that much of a share of the market. There is more than enough room in the car market for a car that doesn't have all the flexibility of a normal ICE car. If you live in a colder climate a electrical car might not be the best choice.

    There is plenty of excellent reviews of the Tesla out their and a bad review doesn't mean the car is a failure. The review that IMHO I am going to give the most merit which isn't out yet is the Consumer Reports review. They have purchased a Tesla Model S like a normal customer would and are currently evaluating it in a long term setting.
     
  18. Dari

    Dari Lifer

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2002
    Messages:
    16,987
    Likes Received:
    0
    Yeah, and refueling can cost up to $70-$90 in one go, whereas recharging is $10 max (if you even have to pay) for up to 300 miles. Also, like I said, you know damn well what you're getting into. The more you drive the more this car becomes invaluable. If you're taking a road trip then it may become a problem. But, common sense would say to just rent.

    For the record, I am seriously considering this car to replace our BMW X35d. The BMW is nice (really nice) but we rarely travel far and this car can also seat 7 passengers. Also, like the Tesla, the diesel also has its own winter problems. Finally, the car's length is between a 5 and 7 series but it has more seating space than the 7 series and definitely has more cargo space. And it handles much better than many sport cars.

    I could never see myself stranded in this car since I know its shortcomings but I can see my wife forgetting to charge it and stuff. But that's why she has me around:biggrin:
     
  19. LTC8K6

    LTC8K6 Lifer

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2004
    Messages:
    23,674
    Likes Received:
    4
    The battery at the end of the warranty is not the same as the battery being "bricked" well before that.

    That's my understanding, anyway.

    A bricked battery is a boat anchor.

    A battery at the end of it's normal life is still a useable battery.

    Thus the $40K vs $8/$10/$12K.
     
  20. Dari

    Dari Lifer

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2002
    Messages:
    16,987
    Likes Received:
    0
    You're going to have a provide a source for that number...
     
  21. imagoon

    imagoon Diamond Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2003
    Messages:
    5,199
    Likes Received:
    0
    The same crummy source that is reporting it as fact.

    http://jalopnik.com/5887265/tesla-motors-devastating-design-problem

    "The 340th Tesla Roadster produced went to a customer in Santa Barbara, California. In 2011, he took his Roadster out for a drive and then parked it in a temporary garage while his home was being renovated. Lacking a built-in Tesla charger or a convenient power outlet, he left the car unplugged. Six weeks later his car was dead. It took four men two hours to drag the 2,700-pound Roadster onto a flatbed truck so that it could be shipped to Tesla's Los Angeles area service center, all at the owner's expense. A service manager then informed him that "it's a brick" and that the battery would cost approximately $40,000 to replace. He was further told that this was a special "friends and family" price, strongly implying that Tesla generally charges more."

    Granted this is the same source that is basically reporting random customer complaints and hear say as fact so take that as what you will.

    I don't think Tesla is infallible by any means but this stinks the same stink as the Toyota accelerator issue. Media picked up a random person's claim and it went viral.

    Basically people where hitting the gas rather than the brake then claiming the car was broke. It appears to be the same thing here: end user didn't bother to plug the car in and the battery went flat to the point of damage. Like I mentioned earlier, this is the same thing that happens to RC cars and planes when people store them with out charging the cells.
     
  22. Dari

    Dari Lifer

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2002
    Messages:
    16,987
    Likes Received:
    0
    I don't understand, he took it to a Tesla service center? Those are owned by Tesla so why would the prices be different? Sounds like bullshit.
     
  23. Bateluer

    Bateluer Lifer

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2001
    Messages:
    27,733
    Likes Received:
    1
    Musk has done more for space travel than NASA, ESA, RSA, JAXA, etc, have done in the past 20 years.
     
  24. LTC8K6

    LTC8K6 Lifer

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2004
    Messages:
    23,674
    Likes Received:
    4
    It was referenced earlier in the thread, but I was just stating a possible explanation for the price difference. I said it was my understanding.
     
  25. LTC8K6

    LTC8K6 Lifer

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2004
    Messages:
    23,674
    Likes Received:
    4
    The actual source is the Roadster Owner's manual, referencing permanent battery damage.

    http://media.theunderstatement.com/021_roadster_manual_p5-2.pdf