Tesla S loses CR recommendation

[bradly1101]

http://www.latimes.com/business/aut...sla-models-20151020-story.html#navtype=outfit

“As the older vehicles are getting up on miles, we are seeing some where the electric motor needs to be replaced and the onboard charging system won’t charge the battery,” said Jake Fisher, Consumer Reports’ director of automotive testing. “On the newer vehicles, we are seeing problems such as the sunroof not operating properly. Door handles continue to be an issue.”
Fisher said the flaws could signal future problems for the brand, which plans to roughly double production next year. It has just begun deliveries of a second vehicle, the Model X electric crossover, and intends to introduce the Model 3, a smaller, less expensive electric car, in 2017.

 

[jlee]

womp womp.

 

[Kaido]

My opinion - the door handles are stupid. 17" screen is also stupid. But they're selling to the $70k+ crowd, so they have to put those things in there. Same with the falcon doors on the X. Neat, but I would have gone a different, more practical route for all of those things.

 

[tortillasoup]

If they simplify the Model 3, then I'd expect far better reliability numbers. Yeah most of the complaints are for the first 50K cars manufactured as it was a new company. The newer cars should be a lot more refined now.

 

[Kadarin]

There is a valid point with the center console display and the need to adjust climate controls and/or audio via touch.

 

[shabby]

The news sent Tesla Motors stock plunging as much as 10% before recovering to close off 7% at $213.03 Tuesday.

Really, some issues with the car are enough to make a company's stock plummet? Every product has issues, every company's stock would dive down to 0.

 

[michal1980]

Really, some issues with the car are enough to make a company's stock plummet? Every product has issues, every company's stock would dive down to 0.

tesla has basically 1 product,

 

[bradly1101]

I remember reading Consumer Reports when I was growing up. I still use it for major purchases and smaller things like drain cleaners.

I always wondered why people would buy cars that repeatedly showed poorly on CR reliability surveys of people who actually own the car. I've kept to their recommendations and have only needed three cars in my fifty four years (after the junkers when I was a teenager).

 

[pcgeek11]

Consumer Reports are not credible anymore and haven't been for quite some time.

 

[Brian Stirling]

It's not uncommon for luxury brands to have quality issues as they sell comparatively few of them and it takes a while to find many of these issues. When you sell a quarter million a year and have done so for many years you figure out what the issues are a bunch quicker.

The ridiculously large displays and novelty doors etc is rampant with the luxury brands and is one of the reasons I'd be less inclined to own one even if I had the money.

If you're selling into a market like Tesla you can't get away with Corolla level trim -- the buyers wont buy if it doesn't stand out from the riffraff.


Brian

 

[jlee]

It's not uncommon for luxury brands to have quality issues as they sell comparatively few of them and it takes a while to find many of these issues. When you sell a quarter million a year and have done so for many years you figure out what the issues are a bunch quicker.

The ridiculously large displays and novelty doors etc is rampant with the luxury brands and is one of the reasons I'd be less inclined to own one even if I had the money.

If you're selling into a market like Tesla you can't get away with Corolla level trim -- the buyers wont buy if it doesn't stand out from the riffraff.


Brian

Lexus does pretty well. They've been around a while though.

 

[A5]

Consumer Reports are not credible anymore and haven't been for quite some time.

...why? They don't like the same things that the enthusiast press does, but they're looking for different things.

 

[Kaido]

If they simplify the Model 3, then I'd expect far better reliability numbers. Yeah most of the complaints are for the first 50K cars manufactured as it was a new company. The newer cars should be a lot more refined now.

Yeah, and on the flip side, it's nothing major. Door handles & sunroofs? OK. I think the biggest thing was the motor vibration & noise issues, but they simply replace those for you (the motors), apparently. So it mostly boils down to (1) fixable inconveniences that (2) are covered under warranty, so you're mostly out some annoyance & your time, but I think they give you a loaner car while they're working on yours, so...eh. Kind of a non-issue for a new car brand. Sure, at $70k+, it should work better, but anything man-made is going to have issues regardless of the pricetag. Just look at how many issues cars like Ferraris have all the time.

 

[Ferzerp]

They tend to potentially have a lot of small issues, but they do a good job of taking care of them.

I will be buying the extended warranty though before mine runs out, because the cost of repair is potentially so high on these things. Frankly, I don't really mind something small breaking, them coming and getting my car and bringing me a spare to use while they have mine, and then fixing it and swapping it back out for me. As long as they keep providing the service they historically have, then even with small issues, they're going to keep that 97% would buy again rating.

Heck, I had a noise that I was concerned about (not an annoying noise, but one that I was concerned might indicate a future problem) and they sent someone to my house with a loaner to ride with me and make sure it was a standard sound in that scenario. I described it, they tested their loaners of the same model in the same situation, confirmed that it made a sound, came out to hear mine, confirmed it was the same sound. If it would have been a problem, they would have left the loaner with me, and taken mine to fix it.

 

[fleshconsumed]

My opinion - the door handles are stupid. 17" screen is also stupid. But they're selling to the $70k+ crowd, so they have to put those things in there. Same with the falcon doors on the X. Neat, but I would have gone a different, more practical route for all of those things.

Sometimes I wish companies followed KISS principle a little bit more closely. A good example is electric parking brakes that cannot be released if your battery dies - you have to dive under your car, open up a port, and manually unwind the parking cable - stupidity of monumental proportions just to have a parking brake button instead of parking brake lever. Or an electric latch in the glove box compartment. Who comes up with all these ideas? Minimal benefit for a lot of hassle with this shit breaks down. Just keep it simple stupid.

 

[Leyawiin]

...why? They don't like the same things that the enthusiast press does, but they're looking for different things.

Because they tend to have a very broad and damning idea of what "reliability" is or is not. Needing a software update on the infotainment center is not a sign of poor reliability. A DCT transmission that doesn't shift as smoothly as a traditional automatic due to its intended design is not a sign of poor reliability. Squeaks and rattles (while irritating) are not a sign of poor reliability. If they would stick to failures of the electrical system, emission controls and drive train I'd place more credence in their surveys.

 

[Brovane]

They tend to potentially have a lot of small issues, but they do a good job of taking care of them.

I will be buying the extended warranty though before mine runs out, because the cost of repair is potentially so high on these things. Frankly, I don't really mind something small breaking, them coming and getting my car and bringing me a spare to use while they have mine, and then fixing it and swapping it back out for me. As long as they keep providing the service they historically have, then even with small issues, they're going to keep that 97% would buy again rating.

Heck, I had a noise that I was concerned about (not an annoying noise, but one that I was concerned might indicate a future problem) and they sent someone to my house with a loaner to ride with me and make sure it was a standard sound in that scenario. I described it, they tested their loaners of the same model in the same situation, confirmed that it made a sound, came out to hear mine, confirmed it was the same sound. If it would have been a problem, they would have left the loaner with me, and taken mine to fix it.

This is a big thing, customer service. Tesla seems to have it down well what to do. Even if they have some quality issues. Musk has said before that vehicle service shouldn't be a profit center for Tesla. If vehicle service is a profit center then Tesla is doing something wrong.

 

[jlee]

Because they tend to have a very broad and damning idea of what "reliability" is or is not. Needing a software update on the infotainment center is not a sign of poor reliability. A DCT transmission that doesn't shift as smoothly as a traditional automatic due to its intended design is not a sign of poor reliability. Squeaks and rattles (while irritating) are not a sign of poor reliability. If they would stick to failures of the electrical system, emission controls and drive train I'd place more credence in their surveys.

Did we read the same thing?

“As the older vehicles are getting up on miles, we are seeing some where the electric motor needs to be replaced and the onboard charging system won’t charge the battery,” said Jake Fisher, Consumer Reports’ director of automotive testing. “On the newer vehicles, we are seeing problems such as the sunroof not operating properly. Door handles continue to be an issue.”

 

[Ferzerp]

I think you're viewing a drive unit replacement as something on the same scale as an engine replacement.

For pretty much any motor, gearing, etc issue, you end up with a new drive unit. It's easier for them to swap them out and send them back for refurbishment than it is to spend time and money diagnosing them in depth.

It is literally a half day service event and no more. It's practically unbolt/unplug, drop the drive unit, bolt the new one in, align car.

 

[jlee]

I think you're viewing a drive unit replacement as something on the same scale as an engine replacement.

For pretty much any motor, gearing, etc issue, you end up with a new drive unit. It's easier for them to swap them out and send them back for refurbishment than it is to spend time and money diagnosing them in depth.

It is literally a half day service event and no more. It's practically unbolt/unplug, drop the drive unit, bolt the new one in, align car.

It's still a reliability problem, not just an infotainment system update as alleged by a previous post.

I'm also accustomed to Toyota/Lexus reliability...

 

[Ferzerp]

Most of them I read about are for noise issues than anything else. If someone has a weird clunk, that's a new drive unit. A milling sound, that's a new drive unit. They're a little like Oprah. "You get a new drive unit! You get a new drive unit! Everyone gets a new drive unit!" Actually a lot of the sounds would eventually turn in to a failure, but they're good about proactively fixing them.

I'm not trying to argue that they have fewer issues than any other car. All I am saying is that when they do, it is a far, far easier process than issues with other cars.

 

[Brovane]

It's still a reliability problem, not just an infotainment system update as alleged by a previous post.

I'm also accustomed to Toyota/Lexus reliability...

Get Toyota to swap out a engine under warranty because you hear a funny noise. Let me know how that works out for you. :thumbsup:

 

[bigi]

Early models - 2012/2013 were much clunkier than later ones. People who have upgraded their 2012 models to latest iteration say it is night and day difference in fit and finish.

 

[jlee]

Get Toyota to swap out a engine under warranty because you hear a funny noise. Let me know how that works out for you. :thumbsup:

It won't work out well. The last one I sold had 283k on it - I'm pretty sure it was out of warranty by then.

 

[Brovane]

It won't work out well. The last one I sold had 283k on it - I'm pretty sure it was out of warranty by then.

You missed the point. If Tesla is being pro-active with it's customers and swapping out parts when they haven't necessarily failed, is that a reliability issue?