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Terrorist storm Lahore police academy

dphantom

Diamond Member
Jan 14, 2005
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This is another indication Pakistan is bordering on a civil war with Al-Queda, Taliban and other terror groups attempting to impose their form of Islamism on the population of Pakistan.

Link

Lahore is near the Indian border. For this size of group to get that far armed as they were is very worrisome. I fear we are not going to be able to count much on Pakistan in the upcoming summer offensive by the Taliban in Afghanistan. That offensive should start soon.

Also, there are increasing attacks in Kashmir by these same groups and that bodes ill for Indian intervention in Pakistan.

Bottom line, Pakistan is between a rock and a hard place.
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
68,531
3,634
126
damn. If Pakistan breaks into Civil War it could very well draw the US/NATO into it. Could get worse than Iraq.
 

Dari

Lifer
Oct 25, 2002
17,134
38
91
The chickens have come home to roost. Pakistan's nurturing of these terrorist organizations to fight foreign wars in Afghanistan, Kashmir, and India proper has led to them turning on their masters.
 

StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
70,150
2
0
Man, that country has a lot of fugged up people in it who like to rack up body counts.
 

Aberforth

Golden Member
Oct 12, 2006
1,707
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Let's hope nukes don't fall into the hands of these rebels but then again the government itself is rebellious :D....because they openly claim they have nukes and will use it if necessary.
 

dphantom

Diamond Member
Jan 14, 2005
4,512
141
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Originally posted by: Aberforth
Let's hope nukes don't fall into the hands of these rebels but then again the government itself is rebellious :D....because they openly claim they have nukes and will use it if necessary.
That is unlikely, however the scarier scenario is the Taliban win and become the government of Pakistan. So the rebels become the the legitimate government. Then we would have a highly unstable leadership allied with Al-queda. And that should worry all of us.
 

StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
70,150
2
0
Originally posted by: Aberforth
Let's hope nukes don't fall into the hands of these rebels but then again the government itself is rebellious :D....because they openly claim they have nukes and will use it if necessary.
Every country with nukes will use them if necessary, or else there's no use in having them!

dphantom is right, a taliban gov in charge of nukes would scare me and I would really like to see pakistan's entire arsenal completely cluster fvcked if anything like that happened, nobody needs that. At that point it's no longer a tenable government by any standard, and so couldn't possibly be trusted with nukes.

 

TechBoyJK

Lifer
Oct 17, 2002
16,701
60
91
Originally posted by: Skoorb
Originally posted by: Aberforth
Let's hope nukes don't fall into the hands of these rebels but then again the government itself is rebellious :D....because they openly claim they have nukes and will use it if necessary.
Every country with nukes will use them if necessary, or else there's no use in having them!

dphantom is right, a taliban gov in charge of nukes would scare me and I would really like to see pakistan's entire arsenal completely cluster fvcked if anything like that happened, nobody needs that. At that point it's no longer a tenable government by any standard, and so couldn't possibly be trusted with nukes.
taliban would get nuked themselves before they got their hands on nukes. Nobody would allow them to have those weapons.
 

Aberforth

Golden Member
Oct 12, 2006
1,707
1
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Originally posted by: dphantom
Originally posted by: Aberforth
Let's hope nukes don't fall into the hands of these rebels but then again the government itself is rebellious :D....because they openly claim they have nukes and will use it if necessary.
That is unlikely, however the scarier scenario is the Taliban win and become the government of Pakistan. So the rebels become the the legitimate government. Then we would have a highly unstable leadership allied with Al-queda. And that should worry all of us.
The current leadership itself is unstable, some people in their military sympathize with the rebel groups according to CIA reports. Note that PAK hasn't signed any nuke treaty like India.
 

Red Dawn

Elite Member
Jun 4, 2001
57,530
3
0
Originally posted by: Skoorb
Originally posted by: Aberforth
Let's hope nukes don't fall into the hands of these rebels but then again the government itself is rebellious :D....because they openly claim they have nukes and will use it if necessary.
Every country with nukes will use them if necessary, or else there's no use in having them!
Maybe the Paks will Nuke themselves.
 

dphantom

Diamond Member
Jan 14, 2005
4,512
141
106
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Originally posted by: Skoorb
Originally posted by: Aberforth
Let's hope nukes don't fall into the hands of these rebels but then again the government itself is rebellious :D....because they openly claim they have nukes and will use it if necessary.
Every country with nukes will use them if necessary, or else there's no use in having them!
Maybe the Paks will Nuke themselves.
That is interesting - let's say Al-Queda in cooperation with the Taliban elements in Pakistan got their hands on one or more nuclear weapons. Highly unlikely but would they use this weapon against Lahore, Islamabad or Hyderabad to overthrow the existing government?

 

Aberforth

Golden Member
Oct 12, 2006
1,707
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Originally posted by: dphantom
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Originally posted by: Skoorb
Originally posted by: Aberforth
Let's hope nukes don't fall into the hands of these rebels but then again the government itself is rebellious :D....because they openly claim they have nukes and will use it if necessary.
Every country with nukes will use them if necessary, or else there's no use in having them!
Maybe the Paks will Nuke themselves.
That is interesting - let's say Al-Queda in cooperation with the Taliban elements in Pakistan got their hands on one or more nuclear weapons. Highly unlikely but would they use this weapon against Lahore, Islamabad or Hyderabad to overthrow the existing government?
What do you mean 'highly unlikely'? Didn't they just attack a police academy that had an armory?
 

dphantom

Diamond Member
Jan 14, 2005
4,512
141
106
Originally posted by: Aberforth
Originally posted by: dphantom
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Originally posted by: Skoorb
Originally posted by: Aberforth
Let's hope nukes don't fall into the hands of these rebels but then again the government itself is rebellious :D....because they openly claim they have nukes and will use it if necessary.
Every country with nukes will use them if necessary, or else there's no use in having them!
Maybe the Paks will Nuke themselves.
That is interesting - let's say Al-Queda in cooperation with the Taliban elements in Pakistan got their hands on one or more nuclear weapons. Highly unlikely but would they use this weapon against Lahore, Islamabad or Hyderabad to overthrow the existing government?
What do you mean 'highly unlikely'? Didn't they just attack a police academy that had an armory?

Nuclear weapons have much more security around them than your standard armory, especially an armory at a training site. It is very unlikely the Taliban or other terrorist elements could gain control of a nuclear weapon unless they become the government of the country.
 

StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
70,150
2
0
Originally posted by: dphantom
Originally posted by: Aberforth
Originally posted by: dphantom
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Originally posted by: Skoorb
Originally posted by: Aberforth
Let's hope nukes don't fall into the hands of these rebels but then again the government itself is rebellious :D....because they openly claim they have nukes and will use it if necessary.
Every country with nukes will use them if necessary, or else there's no use in having them!
Maybe the Paks will Nuke themselves.
That is interesting - let's say Al-Queda in cooperation with the Taliban elements in Pakistan got their hands on one or more nuclear weapons. Highly unlikely but would they use this weapon against Lahore, Islamabad or Hyderabad to overthrow the existing government?
What do you mean 'highly unlikely'? Didn't they just attack a police academy that had an armory?

Nuclear weapons have much more security around them than your standard armory, especially an armory at a training site. It is very unlikely the Taliban or other terrorist elements could gain control of a nuclear weapon unless they become the government of the country.
Yeah, it's really a non-issue, I bet. Unless there is some coup or something, they won't get their hands on it, but a coup is definitely plausible.

 

Fear No Evil

Diamond Member
Nov 14, 2008
5,922
0
0
It thought terrorism was just a scam by GWB's Administration? I'm really confused now. Or wait, would this be part of the War or Terror or just a part of the 'Overseas Contingency Operation' that Obama has started? Either way, the Muslims are supposidly our friends so what do we care if they take over Pakistan's government?
 
Jun 26, 2007
11,925
2
0
Originally posted by: dphantom
This is another indication Pakistan is bordering on a civil war with Al-Queda, Taliban and other terror groups attempting to impose their form of Islamism on the population of Pakistan.

Link

Lahore is near the Indian border. For this size of group to get that far armed as they were is very worrisome. I fear we are not going to be able to count much on Pakistan in the upcoming summer offensive by the Taliban in Afghanistan. That offensive should start soon.

Also, there are increasing attacks in Kashmir by these same groups and that bodes ill for Indian intervention in Pakistan.

Bottom line, Pakistan is between a rock and a hard place.
Perhaps that is why there have been troops inside of Pakistan for a long time now? Perhaps this was known when i said the ISI were involved a long time ago even though it was denied by the US government?

Pakistan has NEVER been an ally.

Pakistan can fix this only by getting rid of the ISI and act with the rest of their military with the help of NATO forces. Well, there are already some forces in Pakistan, but official help would help eventually, not right now, but later on.
 
Jun 26, 2007
11,925
2
0
Originally posted by: Fear No Evil
It thought terrorism was just a scam by GWB's Administration? I'm really confused now. Or wait, would this be part of the War or Terror or just a part of the 'Overseas Contingency Operation' that Obama has started? Either way, the Muslims are supposidly our friends so what do we care if they take over Pakistan's government?
It's pitiful to hear fleas cough... so stop coughing.
 
Jun 26, 2007
11,925
2
0
Originally posted by: dphantom
Originally posted by: Aberforth
Originally posted by: dphantom
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Originally posted by: Skoorb
Originally posted by: Aberforth
Let's hope nukes don't fall into the hands of these rebels but then again the government itself is rebellious :D....because they openly claim they have nukes and will use it if necessary.
Every country with nukes will use them if necessary, or else there's no use in having them!
Maybe the Paks will Nuke themselves.
That is interesting - let's say Al-Queda in cooperation with the Taliban elements in Pakistan got their hands on one or more nuclear weapons. Highly unlikely but would they use this weapon against Lahore, Islamabad or Hyderabad to overthrow the existing government?
What do you mean 'highly unlikely'? Didn't they just attack a police academy that had an armory?

Nuclear weapons have much more security around them than your standard armory, especially an armory at a training site. It is very unlikely the Taliban or other terrorist elements could gain control of a nuclear weapon unless they become the government of the country.
Since the ISI is selling their services to the Taliban and the ISI are the ones guarding these facilities... well.. I'd say that it needs to be secured by forces from outside of Pakistan.
 

dphantom

Diamond Member
Jan 14, 2005
4,512
141
106
Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield
Originally posted by: dphantom
Originally posted by: Aberforth
Originally posted by: dphantom
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Originally posted by: Skoorb
Originally posted by: Aberforth
Let's hope nukes don't fall into the hands of these rebels but then again the government itself is rebellious :D....because they openly claim they have nukes and will use it if necessary.
Every country with nukes will use them if necessary, or else there's no use in having them!
Maybe the Paks will Nuke themselves.
That is interesting - let's say Al-Queda in cooperation with the Taliban elements in Pakistan got their hands on one or more nuclear weapons. Highly unlikely but would they use this weapon against Lahore, Islamabad or Hyderabad to overthrow the existing government?
What do you mean 'highly unlikely'? Didn't they just attack a police academy that had an armory?

Nuclear weapons have much more security around them than your standard armory, especially an armory at a training site. It is very unlikely the Taliban or other terrorist elements could gain control of a nuclear weapon unless they become the government of the country.
Since the ISI is selling their services to the Taliban and the ISI are the ones guarding these facilities... well.. I'd say that it needs to be secured by forces from outside of Pakistan.
Don't disagree with anything you've said in the above posts. I too have been very aware of the ISI and their involvement. I don't think the ISI is going to be very easily removed. I can only hope that their are other measures in place to safeguard Pakistan's weapons (if they actually have any).
 

tvarad

Golden Member
Jun 25, 2001
1,130
0
0
Originally posted by: Robor
I wonder how TGB will turn this into being the fault of the US?
Nearly 3 decades ago, when the U.S. started getting involved in Afghanistan, I remember thinking with trepidation if it truly understood the consequences of getting into bed with the ostracized Zia-ul-Haq regime and the assorted misfits and malcontents it gathered from all over the Islamic world to fight the Soviets. As the war unfolded and American largesse in arms and money was showered on Pakistan, this anxiety became more intense as most Indians like me figured out that the malevolent Haq regime was using it to carry out it's nefarious activities, the most prominent of which was pouring gasoline on the fire that was burning in Indian Punjab and encouraging the theocratization of Pakistan. The arms were mostly fielded against India and the money was used to feverishly obtain nukes. And, get this, the U.S. government under Reagan and Bush yearly used to certify that Pakistan was not working on nukes so that they could get around the nuclear non-proliferation act and pour money and weapons into Pakistan.

The rest is history: the misfits and malcontents fighting the Soviets morphed into Al-Qaeda. The proteges of Zia-ul-Haq are now running amok in Pakistan and provoking a war with India. Winking at the Pakistani nuclear effort and looking the other way has created the biggest security concern for the civilized world. And because of the U.S. history of getting into marriages of convenience with the tin-pot dictators of Pakistan, democracy never took root in that wretched country.

You would think the Americans learned their lesson. But post-Sept 11th, they turned around and repeated the same mistake, viz. showering largesse on a military government to get it to co-operate in the war on terror which was promptly used to line the generals's pockets, buy up weapons to fight India and nurture the nutjobs who are now setting sights on Islamabad itself.

So Obama says we've figured all of this out and we're going to get tough with Pakistan this time. And I say now there's an American who understands all of this. Until he say "WE"RE GOING TO GIVE IT MORE MONEY AND ARMS!!!!!!!"

Sigh. The more things change in the American relationship with Pakistan, the more they remain the same.
 

cirrrocco

Golden Member
Sep 7, 2004
1,946
74
91
Originally posted by: tvarad
Originally posted by: Robor
I wonder how TGB will turn this into being the fault of the US?
Nearly 3 decades ago, when the U.S. started getting involved in Afghanistan, I remember thinking with trepidation if it truly understood the consequences of getting into bed with the ostracized Zia-ul-Haq regime and the assorted misfits and malcontents it gathered from all over the Islamic world to fight the Soviets. As the war unfolded and American largesse in arms and money was showered on Pakistan, this anxiety became more intense as most Indians like me figured out that the malevolent Haq regime was using it to carry out it's nefarious activities, the most prominent of which was pouring gasoline on the fire that was burning in Indian Punjab and encouraging the theocratization of Pakistan. The arms were mostly fielded ...........

Great Post.. I think either the decision makers here are getting some good afghan hashish or those old cold war types who are running the current security establishment just dont want to rock pakistan. mainly because they were in a war together against the satanic USSR. Look at what they have spawned.

I do hope that the current crop of prehistoric guys running cia, nsa are kicked out by the new guys in the field. The current crop of professionals hpefully stop coddling the ISI terrorist sympathizers.

 

The Green Bean

Diamond Member
Jul 27, 2003
6,506
7
81
Funny. When something like this happens in India the world goes around arms spread to offer condolences to India. When the same thing occurs in Pakistan they are evil. I don't expect much from the western world anyways. Their media brainwashes well. And I don't want to hear BS from the beloved patriot-haters saying Pakistan deserved this and it is a sponsor of terrorism and all that. Innocent lives were lost. India isn't the perfect angel many here perceive it as either.

7 Hrs. Good job. And only 8 dead in a building where they had 400 hostage.
 

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