terrorist attack in Orlando gay club - 50 dead, another 53 wounded

[agent00f]

http://www.univision.com/univision-...rism-says-man-who-claims-he-was-gunmans-lover

The shooter's ex-lover speaks out. Folks overjoyed shooter was muslim might want to take their meds before reading.

 

[lopri]

Frankly, something like that was what I suspected from the beginning. Not 100% of course, but I thought that might be more than likely the case. The dude just did not look like a radical. He was very self-aware (look at all those freaking selfies!) wearing NYPD shirt, and appeared a proud papa. He fit the type of an all-American frat boy than a trained terrorist. (His father, on the other hand..)

It does not excuse his monstrous crime against 100+ people who died or got injured, but the more (accurate) facts will help us find a better way to go about preventing another tragedy.

 

[lopri]

And his declaration of fealty to Jihad via 911 during the massacre was a bit suspicious as well. If you read the transcript his assertions come off as way under-prepared for someone who decided to be a religious martyr.

 

[Mai72]

http://www.univision.com/univision-...rism-says-man-who-claims-he-was-gunmans-lover

The shooter's ex-lover speaks out. Folks overjoyed shooter was muslim might want to take their meds before reading.

Read that.

Supposedly, he had sex with someone who was diagnosed with HIV. This sent him into a rage. TBH, I can believe it. What would you do if you had a wife, kid, decent job and you might have contracted HIV. It would throw your world upside down.

 

[Typ33]

SWAT Entry

I'm not sure what to make of this, but it certainly contrasts drastically with the narrative we've been told so far. The Islamic Terrorist shooter didn't walk in and immediately start shooting up the place as has been stated. It's sounding like he may have engaged the (off-duty cop) doorman first and then stopped. From there it sounds like it was a hostage situation. Hostage negotiations with extremist religious hostage takers usually end badly (very).

If this is true, there may have been quite a bit more collateral deaths/injuries than initially thought. Could this be why none of the other recordings have been released?

Again, not sure what to make of this, but I put it out there for discussion.

 

[Subyman]

SWAT Entry

I'm not sure what to make of this, but it certainly contrasts drastically with the narrative we've been told so far. The Islamic Terrorist shooter didn't walk in and immediately start shooting up the place as has been stated. It's sounding like he may have engaged the (off-duty cop) doorman first and then stopped. From there it sounds like it was a hostage situation. Hostage negotiations with extremist religious hostage takers usually end badly (very).

If this is true, there may have been quite a bit more collateral deaths/injuries than initially thought. Could this be why none of the other recordings have been released?

Again, not sure what to make of this, but I put it out there for discussion.

? That link doesn't say anything like that. It talks about redaction of ISIS in the phone call and then a rant about it not being about gun control. The timeline as it shows today is 20 minutes or so of slaughter, then several hours of a hostage situation, and finally the SWAT taking it out.

We really need to stop with the BS of a CCW dude in the club gunning down this man as a solution. Nice macho fantasy, but not a reality. SWAT took 20+ bullets before taking him out.

 

[Artdeco]

? That link doesn't say anything like that. It talks about redaction of ISIS in the phone call and then a rant about it not being about gun control. The timeline as it shows today is 20 minutes or so of slaughter, then several hours of a hostage situation, and finally the SWAT taking it out.

We really need to stop with the BS of a CCW dude in the club gunning down this man as a solution. Nice macho fantasy, but not a reality. SWAT took 20+ bullets before taking him out.

I get a kick out of you playing "what if" where the outcome supports your bias.

 

[agent00f]

And his declaration of fealty to Jihad via 911 during the massacre was a bit suspicious as well. If you read the transcript his assertions come off as way under-prepared for someone who decided to be a religious martyr.

To me it seems more like self-justification. Shooting 100 people at a club he frequents because some dude there mistreated him is just selfish/petty. So he creates this rationalization that it's for a greater cause.

For another example of this, people who love their guns as a hobby see it as too petty to justify the gun violence/deaths in this country, so they create this greater narrative about defending the nation from tyranny/criminals/etc.

 

[Muse]

Read that.

Supposedly, he had sex with someone who was diagnosed with HIV. This sent him into a rage. TBH, I can believe it. What would you do if you had a wife, kid, decent job and you might have contracted HIV. It would throw your world upside down.

Not really. It would put butterflies in my stomach and I'd get an HIV blood test as soon as appropriate. Of course, I'd also look to see if there was something that could be done to lessen my chances of falling prey to the virus. But go nuts? No sir.

 

[MongGrel]

Not really. It would put butterflies in my stomach and I'd get an HIV blood test as soon as appropriate. Of course, I'd also look to see if there was something that could be done to lessen my chances of falling prey to the virus. But go nuts? No sir.

So the way you would react in a hypothetical situation in your mind reflects on how this guy was reacted in what way ?

You hang out at gay nightclubs for starters ?

Was just curious, as your comment just seemed off the cuff there.

No one is probably ever going to know what was going through this guys head to begin with, in reality.

 

[1prophet]

You realize that in the early 20th century Italian immigrants were often reviled? In part because the mafia came with them, they were considered criminals, and viewed as a different race. I wonder how many people have been killed by the mafia in this country. Could have been prevented if we had disallowed immigration of all Italians. Should we have shut off the immigration spigot back then? Who knows how many criminals came into the country along with the law abiding immigrants...

http://www.cnn.com/2012/07/10/opinion/falco-italian-immigrants/

As usual a false equivalence, the mafia isn't spending billions of STATE SPONSORED oil dollars to convert others to its religious beliefs, building mosques in foreign countries to promote theocracy and undermine secularism, state funding of terrorists in the name of religion, etc., etc.

The reason Islam is going backwards is because of those behind the scenes funding and promoting their version, but instead of dealing with the root cause head on,

we hold hands with them

bow to them

and occasionally smooch them

 

[Jaskalas]

http://www.univision.com/univision-...rism-says-man-who-claims-he-was-gunmans-lover

The shooter's ex-lover speaks out. Folks overjoyed shooter was muslim might want to take their meds before reading.

I'll take his religion and LIFETIME of supporting terrorism as matching his raving justification over a story made after the fact.

 

[Pipeline 1010]

We really need to stop with the BS of a CCW dude in the club gunning down this man as a solution. Nice macho fantasy, but not a reality.

I'm not sure where you are getting this "macho fantasy" condescending attitude about CCW. What would stop a CCW holder from pulling his gun and plugging this guy? Armed men have successfully defended themselves from other armed men since guns were invented. Fuck, we even finished this guy off by SENDING IN ARMED MEN. That IS the solution.

SWAT took 20+ bullets before taking him out.

The swat team literally announces their arrival and position by breaking down the wall. The bad guy knows where the good guys with guns are and shoots at them. What is confusing about why he was able to get off some rounds in their direction? On the other hand, if you have 5-10 CCW holders in the club, randomly dispersed, this guy doesn't know who/where they are. I would so much rather have a gun in this circumstance than not. Who in the world is like "no I'll take my chances cowering in fear and begging for my life"?

 

[agent00f]

I'll take his religion and LIFETIME of supporting terrorism as matching his raving justification over a story made after the fact.

Let's say one of the gun enthusiasts here always talking about insurrection against the gubmint (which is far more than Omar talked about or focused on terrorism) attacked his own church. First they make a call ranting about obama and liberals and whatever. Then we find out he had troubles with people at the church, and had good reason to get back at them. Which would you think was a more likely motivation? Liberal muslim hussein obama or the actual relationship issues that affect his life?

 

[agent00f]

I'm not sure where you are getting this "macho fantasy" condescending attitude about CCW. What would stop a CCW holder from pulling his gun and plugging this guy? Armed men have successfully defended themselves from other armed men since guns were invented. Fuck, we even finished this guy off by SENDING IN ARMED MEN. That IS the solution.



The swat team literally announces their arrival and position by breaking down the wall. The bad guy knows where the good guys with guns are and shoots at them. What is confusing about why he was able to get off some rounds in their direction? On the other hand, if you have 5-10 CCW holders in the club, randomly dispersed, this guy doesn't know who/where they are. I would so much rather have a gun in this circumstance than not. Who in the world is like "no I'll take my chances cowering in fear and begging for my life"?

Seems the answer to violence is always give everybody a gun and see what happens.

 

[Pipeline 1010]

Seems the answer to violence is always give everybody a gun and see what happens.

The answer to violence is allowing people to defend themselves from said violence. Why are you in opposition to this?

 

[agent00f]

The answer to violence is allowing people to defend themselves from said violence. Why are you in opposition to this?

For the same reason that we have a professional police force and court system, instead of letting everyone dispense vigilante justice in manner of their choosing.

You have a odd confidence that people with guns are the good guys, similar to the odd notion that a populace with enough gun to overthrow the government is a guaranteed good.

 

[StrangerGuy]

For the same reason that we have a professional police force and court system, instead of letting everyone dispense vigilante justice in manner of their choosing.

You have a odd confidence that people with guns are the good guys, similar to the odd notion that a populace with enough gun to overthrow the government is a guaranteed good.

I don't live in a country with guns and even I find your false dilemma hilariously dumb.

 

[agent00f]

How so?

 

[werepossum]

I'm not sure where you are getting this "macho fantasy" condescending attitude about CCW. What would stop a CCW holder from pulling his gun and plugging this guy? Armed men have successfully defended themselves from other armed men since guns were invented. Fuck, we even finished this guy off by SENDING IN ARMED MEN. That IS the solution.

The swat team literally announces their arrival and position by breaking down the wall. The bad guy knows where the good guys with guns are and shoots at them. What is confusing about why he was able to get off some rounds in their direction? On the other hand, if you have 5-10 CCW holders in the club, randomly dispersed, this guy doesn't know who/where they are. I would so much rather have a gun in this circumstance than not. Who in the world is like "no I'll take my chances cowering in fear and begging for my life"?

Agreed, although mixing alcohol and concealed carry might cost more lives over the long run.

The answer to violence is allowing people to defend themselves from said violence. Why are you in opposition to this?

Read his/her post history; there is no recognition of individuals, only groups. Therefore the slaughter of individuals is unimportant compared to the larger purpose of disarming the group. It is unfortunately not an uncommon view on the left.

 

[nageov3t]

http://www.univision.com/univision-...rism-says-man-who-claims-he-was-gunmans-lover

The shooter's ex-lover speaks out. Folks overjoyed shooter was muslim might want to take their meds before reading.

FBI investigators say they have found no evidence that Orlando shooter had gay lovers

if any of these claims are true about him having gay lovers, being on hookup apps, etc, you'd think they would be easy to prove assuming they have access to the shooter's cellphone and computers.

 

[SMOGZINN]

The answer to violence is allowing people to defend themselves from said violence. Why are you in opposition to this?

Because we have about 10,000 years of history showing us that answering violence with violence only brings more violence, never peace.

 

[Ackmed]

Dropping bombs stopped WWII, bringing peace. That's about as violent as it comes.

 

[Artdeco]

FBI investigators say they have found no evidence that Orlando shooter had gay lovers

if any of these claims are true about him having gay lovers, being on hookup apps, etc, you'd think they would be easy to prove assuming they have access to the shooter's cellphone and computers.

Interesting...

 

[SMOGZINN]

Dropping bombs stopped WWII, bringing peace. That's about as violent as it comes.

No peace didn't happen until everyone agreed to stop dropping bombs.