Tennessee Passes Mind-Boggling Ban on Bus Rapid Transit

[Jimzz]

Tennessee Passes Mind-Boggling Ban on Bus Rapid Transit

Geez why would they do that?

"conservative group Americans for Prosperity, founded with the support of brothers Charles and David Koch, had lobbied in favor of the bus ban."


Oh... :\

 

[Jhhnn]

Transit was my business for many years. Our light rail system in Denver has been a huge hit, particularly our higher speed corridors. Costs are huge, however, with BRT likely much less expensive to install & maintain with much the same results.

Quite why AfP would lobby against it probably has to do with it likely being union. Hell, conservative funders successfully convinced Volkswagen workers to vote against a union that volkswagen wanted. Go figure.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

I did a quick search on this and found that the proposed Nashville BRT routes covered 7.1 miles that were already covered by the existing bus system. The existing bus system also has 3 times the number of stops compared to BRT and are currently running at only 35% capacity.

 

[z1ggy]

I did a quick search on this and found that the proposed Nashville BRT routes covered 7.1 miles that were already covered by the existing bus system. The existing bus system also has 3 times the number of stops compared to BRT and are currently running at only 35% capacity.

Nashville has a bus system, McCall said, but it’s not enough to transport people throughout the suburbs and into the city, especially not as the city grows. By 2035, almost 1 million new residents will come to live in the Nashville area, according to the MTA.

Sounds like a new rapid transit system is needed... no?

Also, just to be clear that AFP seeks to ultimately support big oil and hinder renewable energy

in Georgia, AFP launched a “multi-pronged, grassroots driven initiative” that urged citizens to pressure members of the state’s Public Service Commission to reject an effort to require Georgia Power to expand its use of solar energy.

 

[hal2kilo]

Bunch a luddites.

Don't you know Koch is bad for you?

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

Sounds like a new rapid transit system is needed... no?

The Senate overwhelmingly voted for the BRT ban as there were many controversial issues associated with the project...only one Democrat voted against the ban...that should be your first clue. I love the way liberals are spinning this 'atrocity' as the handiwork of conservatives and the evil Koch brothers....while ignoring that fact that most all Democrats and many other groups opposed BRT as well...most notably low income blacks in North Nashville. Looks to me like everyone needs to work together to find a satisfactory solution. No?

Also, just to be clear that AFP seeks to ultimately support big oil and hinder renewable energy

Also, just to be clear...you're a nutcase if you believe what you quoted has anything to do with this issue.

 

[berzerker60]

I did a quick search on this and found that the proposed Nashville BRT routes covered 7.1 miles that were already covered by the existing bus system. The existing bus system also has 3 times the number of stops compared to BRT and are currently running at only 35% capacity.

They're not necessarily comparable though. If a bus trip is going to take me 50 minutes to get to work but I can drive in 15, I'm not going to take it. That shouldn't be used as evidence that I wouldn't take a bus that got me there in 20 or even 30 minutes, though. The number of stops is probably exactly the problem - slows stuff down an enormous amount. It's the same reason there are some express trains on most subway and train systems, and airplanes don't just stop at each airport along the way across the country.

I don't know or really care much about this particular issue, it could be a good idea to block it for all I know, I just think it's important to consider public transit from all angles since it's so integral to having a livable, efficient city.

 

[Newell Steamer]

,... when will the Koch bashing stop???

{:*-(

They are humanitarians, God dammit!!

 

[z1ggy]

The Senate overwhelmingly voted for the BRT ban as there were many controversial issues associated with the project...only one Democrat voted against the ban...that should be your first clue. I love the way liberals are spinning this 'atrocity' as the handiwork of conservatives and the evil Koch brothers....while ignoring that fact that most all Democrats and many other groups opposed BRT as well...most notably low income blacks in North Nashville. Looks to me like everyone needs to work together to find a satisfactory solution. No?


Also, just to be clear...you're a nutcase if you believe what you quoted has anything to do with this issue.

Firstly, did you even read the article?

Secondly, it does because the AFP is the same group that was responsible for lobbying this transit ban and the one I quoted. So... It's related. The group can toss millions and millions of dollars toward advertising and lobbying to get what they want.

And you're assuming I'm a liberal because I am against the fact any group in America can toss what is essentially an endless supply of money at politicians or media networks and get whatever outcome they desire...? That doesn't make sense.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

They're not necessarily comparable though. If a bus trip is going to take me 50 minutes to get to work but I can drive in 15, I'm not going to take it. That shouldn't be used as evidence that I wouldn't take a bus that got me there in 20 or even 30 minutes, though. The number of stops is probably exactly the problem - slows stuff down an enormous amount. It's the same reason there are some express trains on most subway and train systems, and airplanes don't just stop at each airport along the way across the country.

I don't know or really care much about this particular issue, it could be a good idea to block it for all I know, I just think it's important to consider public transit from all angles since it's so integral to having a livable, efficient city.

There is no doubt in my mind that all the various issues were looked at from all angles well before the overwhelming vote to ban BRTs. There are many, many reasons why this particular project sucked.

 

[hal2kilo]

The Senate overwhelmingly voted for the BRT ban as there were many controversial issues associated with the project...only one Democrat voted against the ban...that should be your first clue. I love the way liberals are spinning this 'atrocity' as the handiwork of conservatives and the evil Koch brothers....while ignoring that fact that most all Democrats and many other groups opposed BRT as well...most notably low income blacks in North Nashville. Looks to me like everyone needs to work together to find a satisfactory solution. No?


Also, just to be clear...you're a nutcase if you believe what you quoted has anything to do with this issue.

Well then call me a nutcase. You know GM pretty much caused alot of municiple bus and trolly systems to be closed down back in the 30s and 40s.. It this case their self interest was to sell more cars. Why don't you think the Koch bros who much of their fortune is involved in the petrochemical industry would not be discouraging mass transit system so people have to use more of their products.

 

[fskimospy]

I don't know enough about this particular bill to talk intelligently about it but mass transit definitely suffers from a chicken/egg problem. If ridership is low, service is cut. When you cut service, ridership drops because the experience sucks. Not an easy problem to solve.

The south is also tough to serve effectively with transit because population densities are often so low.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

Firstly, did you even read the article?

Yes...it's a horribly biased article. I've actually read several articles on this subject that happen to be an order of magnitude more objective than that Koch brother hit piece tripe for the incredibly gullible among us. Here's one that gives some decent insight into the major issues...but you'll likely be very disappointed that the sinister Koch brothers weren't blamed for anything or even mentioned in the article. WTF is with that?

http://www.theatlanticcities.com/co...les-oddly-ugly-bus-rapid-transit-debate/8540/

Secondly, it does because the AFP is the same group that was responsible for lobbying this transit ban and the one I quoted. So... It's related. The group can toss millions and millions of dollars toward advertising and lobbying to get what they want.

And you're assuming I'm a liberal because I am against the fact any group in America can toss what is essentially an endless supply of money at politicians or media networks and get whatever outcome they desire...? That doesn't make sense.

Are you a liberal?

 

[K1052]

Shortsighted but there are 20 other states that will shove TN aside and line up for the federal cash freed up by such a ban for their own projects. Transit ridership across the country is increasing while miles driven per capita falls and many state/city DOTs have started to notice.

 

[Jhhnn]

I did a quick search on this and found that the proposed Nashville BRT routes covered 7.1 miles that were already covered by the existing bus system. The existing bus system also has 3 times the number of stops compared to BRT and are currently running at only 35% capacity.

Yeh- it's slow, so nobody rides it. What a surprise.

 

[K1052]

There is no doubt in my mind that all the various issues were looked at from all angles well before the overwhelming vote to ban BRTs. There are many, many reasons why this particular project sucked.

This was mostly killed by rampant NIMBYism, unfamiliarity with transit, and good old fashioned racism. Pretending it died a natural death on its merits is just as bad as saying the Kotch brothers smothered it in it's crib and are wholly responsible.

 

[nehalem256]

This was mostly killed by rampant NIMBYism, unfamiliarity with transit, and good old fashioned racism. Pretending it died a natural death on its merits is just as bad as saying the Kotch brothers smothered it in it's crib and are wholly responsible.

....while ignoring that fact that most all Democrats and many other groups opposed BRT as well...most notably low income blacks in North Nashville..

If proof was needed that liberals see racism everywhere you just provided it.

 

[werepossum]

I don't know enough about this particular bill to talk intelligently about it but mass transit definitely suffers from a chicken/egg problem. If ridership is low, service is cut. When you cut service, ridership drops because the experience sucks. Not an easy problem to solve.

The south is also tough to serve effectively with transit because population densities are often so low.

Good points. People also fear the associated land grabs with new mass transit, which may or may not be reasonable in this case, and the ongoing costs of a system which never breaks even.

 

[Vic]

Are you a liberal?

If he was, why would he be offended by being called one?

 

[K1052]

If proof was needed that liberals see racism everywhere you just provided it.

I didn't say who was being racist for and for what reasons. In this particular instance it was everyone but I don't really feel like explaining it to someone who only wants to spar over semantics for attention.

 

[BoberFett]

I did a quick search on this and found that the proposed Nashville BRT routes covered 7.1 miles that were already covered by the existing bus system. The existing bus system also has 3 times the number of stops compared to BRT and are currently running at only 35% capacity.

Then it should fail on it's own merits, and not because some other group railroaded it.

Of course that's the idealist in me talking, reality rarely works that well. The piece of shit politicians (largely Democrats, no Kochs involved) in this state keep building very expensive buildings for very wealthy sports team owners so they can get richer.

 

[BoberFett]

,... when will the Koch bashing stop???

{:*-(

They are humanitarians, God dammit!!

I'm going to vote for shitty Republican candidates simply because I hate you.

 

[berzerker60]

Good points. People also fear the associated land grabs with new mass transit, which may or may not be reasonable in this case, and the ongoing costs of a system which never breaks even.

The 'breaking even' thing is such a red herring, though. Roads and parking lots for individual cars don't break even, either. No transportation option is free. The question is what economic benefits accrue from it as a whole, not whether revenue from fees equals costs.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

This was mostly killed by rampant NIMBYism, unfamiliarity with transit, and good old fashioned racism. Pretending it died a natural death on its merits is just as bad as saying the Kotch brothers smothered it in it's crib and are wholly responsible.

I agree...however, it died due to it's lack of merits as well. My main point though is that it's absurd to blame the Koch brothers for this because they happened to have donated some money to AFP which is an organization which has many moving parts supporting various conservative causes. AFP is just one of the many groups and interests who lobbied against the project. To extrapolate from the actual facts into saying that the Koch brothers want to ban mass transportation is insane.

 

[Jhhnn]

The 'breaking even' thing is such a red herring, though. Roads and parking lots for individual cars don't break even, either. No transportation option is free. The question is what economic benefits accrue from it as a whole, not whether revenue from fees equals costs.

Stop making sense. Their well propagandized thought processes filter it all out. The only way to get through is to segue from Benghazi! or something similar.