Ten Years After

[Perknose]

I love my country.

Hey, I love my planet, too, but that love is more a concept -- intellectual and dry.

My love for my country, otoh, resides in my heart, not my mind. Indeed, I could say it is baked right into my bones, rises and contracts right along with each mortal beat of my heart, and lives in every single cell of my being.

It just is.

I grew up in a time and place where our love for America, our profound gratitude for being born Americans, was pervasive and just assumed. No one ever needed to say or proclaim it, or define it as exclusive to them and lacking in some group of others. Everyone I knew just had this quiet but bone solid love in their hearts, where it just was.

And so, I took 9/11 personally.

And I deeply remember the immediate aftermath, when that old spirit of inclusive, non-political patriotism, that we were all in this together, and that, together, all of us, the United States of America, could do anything we set our minds to, was briefly abroad in the Republic once again.

It felt great, that old optimism and trust in ourselves, that "can-do" spirit, that solidarity.

Fleeting, illusory, ridiculously sentimental . . . you may use whatever words in your vocabulary to scoff at my desire, I don't care.

Nothing will stop me from deeply wishing this for us, for all of us, to have and feel once again. :thumbsup:

 

[cwjerome]

I will never forget the feelings I had during that week. It is part of me, it's helped to mold me who I am today. It was an experience. As I look back on those days, with all the emotions and thoughts that defined that period, I have come to realize that more than anything it sparked an inner rebellion against irony and cynicism. What I learned is sincerity and authenticity is real and possible. In a sense it made me hate politics even more than I usually do because it gave me a taste of that Aristotelian notion of a "polis" of people who were genuine and whose citizenship was centered on helping and community... what politics is supposed to be but perhaps never has been.

 

[Craig234]

I will never forget the feelings I had during that week. It is part of me, it's helped to mold me who I am today. It was an experience. As I look back on those days, with all the emotions and thoughts that defined that period, I have come to realize that more than anything it sparked an inner rebellion against irony and cynicism. What I learned is sincerity and authenticity is real and possible. In a sense it made me hate politics even more than I usually do because it gave me a taste of that Aristotelian notion of a "polis" of people who were genuine and whose citizenship was centered on helping and community... what politics is supposed to be but perhaps never has been.

It's funny but sad, you are practically describing what progressive politics is about, but the ideology makes it so hard for you to recognize that, instead of just hating them.

That was a very nice post, but it sounded different than what I remember from your other posts.

 

[Tristicus]

It's funny but sad, you are practically describing what progressive politics is about, but the ideology makes it so hard for you to recognize that, instead of just hating them.

That was a very nice post, but it sounded different than what I remember from your other posts.

Shut the fuck up and don't you dare try to turn this into partisan bullshit.

 

[GoPackGo]

I had just been to the top of the WTC 7 months prior...I had 9/11 nightmares for months...seeing the people that worked there. I think 9/11 proved...when push comes to shove, democrat/republican, liberal/conservative...united we stand

 

[Moonbeam]

Shut the fuck up and don't you dare try to turn this into partisan bullshit.

Craig liked what cw said and suggested it's how progressives feel because he believes that progressives think in just such a good way. Now you come along and insult him for being partisan in your partisan, "no good words for progressives, that's partisan bull shit" sort of way. Why not just argue with him if whether what he said is true or not. It sounds pretty progressive to me. Progressives are progressives because they love their country, you know. I think the op is also rather progressive.

 

[woolfe9999]

I don't really have much to add to the OP's comments, except that it was very well said and reflects almost exactly my own feelings in and around that time. Unfortunately it was all too ephemeral.

 

[JD50]

Great post perknose

 

[UberNeuman]

To this day I remember the early reports of what was starting to take place and confusion; everyone seeking information about what had happened - and then going into work and the shock of the events which kept unfolding during the day...

\may we never see again such a day.

 

[Darwin333]

Very well said my friend, I'll drink to that.

 

[Darwin333]

I don't really have much to add to the OP's comments, except that it was very well said and reflects almost exactly my own feelings in and around that time. Unfortunately it was all too ephemeral.

And thank you (and google) for teaching me a new word.

 

[Darwin333]

To this day I remember the early reports of what was starting to take place and confusion; everyone seeking information about what had happened - and then going into work and the shock of the events which kept unfolding during the day...

\may we never see again such a day.

I hope that our children (because we sure as hell ain't) will make the true point Perknose made into an everyday reality.

\may we see the days Perknose was speaking of tomorrow and every single day following.


"We must all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately"
- Benjamin Franklin

 

[UberNeuman]

I hope that our children (because we sure as hell ain't) will make the true point Perknose made into an everyday reality.

\may we see the days Perknose was speaking of tomorrow and every single day following.


"We must all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately"
- Benjamin Franklin

It was a pure moment in the history of the US since WWII of unity - of which was squandered as later days has shone...

 

[ComradeBeck]

I remember seeing the tower fall, my first thought was, uh oh, who did we screw over now for the almighty buck? They are pissed! The horror of the actual event is mind numbing if you dwell on it. The insanity of this world.

The biggest after effect I became concerned about as the whole thing set in is that our young arrogant country would radicalize (namely fundie xtians and "patriot groups" against innocent american muzzies so we become a distrusting feared police state of reactionaries. On some levels it has become so. I hate being right about bad shit.

This was exactly OBL's goal, to kill western liberalism, now mass media like Fox sound like the very same muzzy whackos who bombed us.

 

[classy]

I love my country.

Hey, I love my planet, too, but that love is more a concept -- intellectual and dry.

My love for my country, otoh, resides in my heart, not my mind. Indeed, I could say it is baked right into my bones, rises and contracts right along with each mortal beat of my heart, and lives in every single cell of my being.

It just is.

I grew up in a time and place where our love for America, our profound gratitude for being born Americans, was pervasive and just assumed. No one ever needed to say or proclaim it, or define it as exclusive to them and lacking in some group of others. Everyone I knew just had this quiet but bone solid love in their hearts, where it just was.

And so, I took 9/11 personally.

And I deeply remember the immediate aftermath, when that old spirit of inclusive, non-political patriotism, that we were all in this together, and that, together, all of us, the United States of America, could do anything we set our minds to, was briefly abroad in the Republic once again.

It felt great, that old optimism and trust in ourselves, that "can-do" spirit, that solidarity.

Fleeting, illusory, ridiculously sentimental . . . you may use whatever words in your vocabulary to scoff at my desire, I don't care.

Nothing will stop me from deeply wishing this for us, for all of us, to have and feel once again. :thumbsup:

Agreed. Last week when the hurricane was coming through I stood in line with a bunch of strangers for a generator. It was the some of the best conversation I ever had with complete strangers. We laughed and told stories. I thought to myself why is it as a people we can't have that kind of communication except when there is a tragedy or an impending tragedy possibly on the horizon. We are a unique and a great people in this country, but we have learn to show it more in both good times and bad times.

 

[Engineer]

You, Perknose, have expressed everything that I'm feeling in a much better way that I could have ever said. I'm sitting here reliving the pain over and over just as I did that day.

 

[nageov3t]

I grew up in a time and place where our love for America, our profound gratitude for being born Americans, was pervasive and just assumed. No one ever needed to say or proclaim it, or define it as exclusive to them and lacking in some group of others. Everyone I knew just had this quiet but bone solid love in their hearts, where it just was.

I'm trying to think of a time when that was actually true and I'm drawing a blank.

When did you grow up, Perk?

 

[Jhhnn]

Shut the fuck up and don't you dare try to turn this into partisan bullshit.

Too late for that. The tragic events were quickly exploited. 9/11 was the greatest political windfall since Pearl Harbor, one the Bush Admin rapidly fashioned into a club to be used against all perceived enemies, foreign and domestic.

That's the shameful truth of the whole thing, like it or not.

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/09/11/the-years-of-shame/

Ten years later, we still occupy Iraq, a nation that played no part in the tragedy. We still have the Patriot Act, and we still hold prisoners at Gitmo, and apparently can't make a case against them even in a kangaroo court. We harbor greater unfounded animosity towards muslims in general than ever before, and we still have boneheads deep in denial about the whole sordid chain of events.

 

[Jaskalas]

Ten years later, we still...

And we can 'thank' you for, once assuming power, doing nothing to change it. Feel free to clean your own house, to get it to actually function the way you expect, before knocking on our door.

 

[Bowfinger]

I love my country.

Hey, I love my planet, too, but that love is more a concept -- intellectual and dry.

My love for my country, otoh, resides in my heart, not my mind. Indeed, I could say it is baked right into my bones, rises and contracts right along with each mortal beat of my heart, and lives in every single cell of my being.

It just is.

I grew up in a time and place where our love for America, our profound gratitude for being born Americans, was pervasive and just assumed. No one ever needed to say or proclaim it, or define it as exclusive to them and lacking in some group of others. Everyone I knew just had this quiet but bone solid love in their hearts, where it just was.

And so, I took 9/11 personally.

And I deeply remember the immediate aftermath, when that old spirit of inclusive, non-political patriotism, that we were all in this together, and that, together, all of us, the United States of America, could do anything we set our minds to, was briefly abroad in the Republic once again.

It felt great, that old optimism and trust in ourselves, that "can-do" spirit, that solidarity.

Fleeting, illusory, ridiculously sentimental . . . you may use whatever words in your vocabulary to scoff at my desire, I don't care.

Nothing will stop me from deeply wishing this for us, for all of us, to have and feel once again. :thumbsup:

/salute

Well said sir.




(Please keep the partisan BS out of this thread. There are countless others you can pollute instead.)

 

[Jhhnn]

And we can 'thank' you for, once assuming power, doing nothing to change it. Feel free to clean your own house, to get it to actually function the way you expect, before knocking on our door.

Obfuscate much? The fearmongering and lies of the Bush era will be with us for a very long time, and will continue to affect policy for as long as a significant % of the population believes in them, and so long as pandering to those false beliefs remains effective for power figures doing so.

I just admitted to the wrongfulness of what was done in the aftermath of 9/11. The more people who can do so, who can escape denial & quit defending lies, the more likely we'll be able to heal strong & straight, rather than twisted & crippled.

 

[shiner]

Those of you attempting to turn this thread into a partisan hell hole should be ashamed of yourselves.

 

[Jaskalas]

Nothing will stop me from deeply wishing this for us, for all of us, to have and feel once again. :thumbsup:

If fear is what bring us together, then excuse me while I remain separate.

So long as we are each others greatest enemy, then times must be good. I'm not sure if that's necessarily a bad thing, for us to have room to spare for in-fighting. That means we don't feel threatened from external forces.

Frankly, I now feel the greatest threat is from within on the basis of government structure. It'd take one hell of an act of war from a foreign source to change my mind.

Besides, political fighting is preferred to a real war. Sure, we've the capacity to turn our fight bloody, but it has been 150 years since it came to that.


Do you remember the consequences of our coming together after 9/11? We started two wars and created the 'Patriot' Act. A gross violation of the Bill of Rights. Perhaps we should all pray to never join hands again, if that is the consequence.

We each love our country, but we have separate and opposing ideals. I love this country for its founding principles. Of limiting government's trampling of our liberty. My existence is focused on the conservation of that principle. I suspect yours is not to conserve it, but to progress it.

I hope you realize just how incompatible we are, right down to the core.

 

[Moonbeam]

If fear is what bring us together, then excuse me while I remain separate.

So long as we are each others greatest enemy, then times must be good. I'm not sure if that's necessarily a bad thing, for us to have room to spare for in-fighting. That means we don't feel threatened from external forces.

Frankly, I now feel the greatest threat is from within on the basis of government structure. It'd take one hell of an act of war from a foreign source to change my mind.

Besides, political fighting is preferred to a real war. Sure, we've the capacity to turn our fight bloody, but it has been 150 years since it came to that.


Do you remember the consequences of our coming together after 9/11? We started two wars and created the 'Patriot' Act. A gross violation of the Bill of Rights. Perhaps we should all pray to never join hands again, if that is the consequence.

We each love our country, but we have separate and opposing ideals. I love this country for its founding principles. Of limiting government's trampling of our liberty. My existence is focused on the conservation of that principle. I suspect yours is not to conserve it, but to progress it.

I hope you realize just how incompatible we are, right down to the core.

But your incompatibility is irrational. 2000 years ago the Greeks figured out that the only constant is change, so what you are doing is worshiping a moment in the past that is no longer and can never return. Black people are no longer counted as partial people and you should want that back too if you are consistent. No, what has happened is that time brought to light things that weren't right with the original Constitution and that Constitution, expecting that, provided the amendment process for just that reason.

So in effect, you and progressives are identical. Things have changed and you want more change, just like progressives, only you want change that goes backward, a return to a time you never lived in, have no idea how life really was then, and in which you might have pined for a return to British rule being a the worshiper of the past that you are.

In short, things have changed and you want to change things back while others just want change that makes things better. But nobody ever changes the perfect and if things didn't suck 200 years ago just like they do today, nobody would have ever changed a thing.

So yours is not only a fools errand but an irrational dream, a fantasy of past perfection that never was and never will be. There is only change and adjustment to new information or there is evolutionary stagnation and extinction.

In short, you are a believer in a religion, a religious nut case.

 

[Jaskalas]

Let me try to restate it simply.

Our coming together was driven by fear. With that fear we did terrible things. I find we are fortunate not to be together today, for it means that we live in good times, with no attacks, and less fear.

We are no longer distracted from our petty squabbles. So squabble we shall, and proud of it.