Telling my parents I no longer want to be a part of their church

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smitbret

Diamond Member
Jul 27, 2006
3,382
17
81
Originally posted by: child of wonder
Originally posted by: zinfamous

newsflash: Mormons are Christians, whether or not you like it.

No, they're not. The LDS church would like people to believe that, but it's not true.

Christianity and LDS share the fact that Jesus Christ is their main target of adoration but that's about it.

To the OP -- my wife was raised Mormon and left the church when she was 19 or so. Maybe she might be kind enough to come on here and post some advice, however she didn't leave the church while living at home nor in Utah.

So if that's not the definition of Christianity, what is?
 

smitbret

Diamond Member
Jul 27, 2006
3,382
17
81
Back to the OP, though, been in your situation (live in SE Idaho), parents met at FHE at BYU, I've got the whole storyboard, Dad's currently in the Stake Presidency. I've always had problems with being LDS, girlfriend talked me into go on a mission (fun, fun stories there), etc. I'm not LDS, my family has accepted it and moved on. Then again, they're just pretty cool in general, it could have been a lot worse with a different set of parents, I'm sure.

I just rode it out for a few years while in high school and it really didn't hurt me, gave me better insight into other people and religion in general if you ask me. You know what you believe and that is enough. I wouldn't bother with telling mom, but accept the fact that you're just gonna have to go to seminary, attend church and memorize some passages in 3rd Nephi from time to time.

The U will probably be fine for college, but whatever you do, don't get trapped into going to a church sponsored school. It will be even more difficult to break away, then. Don't kid yourself either, the pressure to do so will be there and you will consider it.

Everone here that tells you to give her a logical explanation for your beliefs doesn't understand the basis of the LDS faith that preaches that you will know the truth by yor own feelings via the Holy Ghost. Logic has ZERO validity as an argument for acceptance of any religion, especially so the LDS faith. The best thing you can do is just explain (when the time is right) that you have tried to find out the truth and you just don't share the same feelings she does. If she doesn't accept it at first, she will over time. If you're an only child, it may be a little harder for her and for you, since she has only you to focus on, but if she's a decent person, she won't reject you for doing what you believe is right.
 

thepd7

Diamond Member
Jan 2, 2005
9,423
0
0
Originally posted by: smitbret
Originally posted by: child of wonder
Originally posted by: zinfamous

newsflash: Mormons are Christians, whether or not you like it.

No, they're not. The LDS church would like people to believe that, but it's not true.

Christianity and LDS share the fact that Jesus Christ is their main target of adoration but that's about it.

To the OP -- my wife was raised Mormon and left the church when she was 19 or so. Maybe she might be kind enough to come on here and post some advice, however she didn't leave the church while living at home nor in Utah.

So if that's not the definition of Christianity, what is?

It depends on who you talk to. I believe (as John 14:6 states) it's only through Jesus, nothing else. The LDS church adds a lot to that.
 

DrPizza

Administrator Elite Member Goat Whisperer
Mar 5, 2001
49,601
166
111
www.slatebrookfarm.com
Originally posted by: LessThanDan
Originally posted by: AccruedExpenditure
lol, this is the real reason he wants out.

Are you referring to tithing, or my feelings on god? Either way , these things are only a couple of the reasons why I want out. My other reasons were summed up in my initial post. To elaborate on what I said earlier, there are certain principles and teachings that the LDS church has been quick to bring up in the past couple of decades or so. I believe the church has changed over time, just like everything else changes over time, and recently the church has been a lot more vocal and strict about moral values. You can drink this, but you can't drink that. You are not ready to date until you become this age. Do not become closely associated with girls until this point of time. You can do this, but you cannot do that unless X, Y, and Z.

Evidently I can't even think for myself at all anymore. The youth in the church have to have a little pamphlet that goes into the logistics of what you should and should not do, which includes things about dating, using bad language, and watching R-rated movies or listening to suggestive music. Keep in mind that these aren't even traditional values that you would find in the bible or 10 commandments, but rather, things that have recently come to mind in many church leaders who think that this is now something that we should focus on. To me, this makes the church almost seem kind of like a "new age" type of religion, which I guess can be good and bad, but overall turns me off even more.

Being encouraged to make good decisions obviously isn't a bad thing. But I think that something is wrong when they have to go into so much detail in dictating what I should do.

Southpark really got it right when they did the episode on the Mormon church. Sure, the basis for the church is a sham. But what's important is that they at least attempt to teach some values - honesty, etc. Not that I believe it's necessary to believe in God to grow up into an adult which I'd consider to have "good character." However, it seems that the percentage of Mormons who grow up with good character seems to be a bit higher than the norm. Look at the people here who are considered trolls. Do you think there are Mormon trolls here? Unless it was someone actually pushing their religion, "mormon troll" is pretty much an oxymoron. I'm also not saying that I don't think they're too restrictive. They are. However, since some people aren't mature enough to deal with things at a certain age that other people are, they seem to have a blanket rule that no one that age should be exposed. Obviously, we all know that good parenting should have the same effect - the parents should know what the can and shouldn't expose their kids too. Unfortunately, parenting skills seems to be falling a bit.
 

DrPizza

Administrator Elite Member Goat Whisperer
Mar 5, 2001
49,601
166
111
www.slatebrookfarm.com
Originally posted by: Kalvin00
Ignore these people telling you to just stick with it.

You need to speak out and stand up for rationality. How will we ever rid society of this worthless thing we know as religion if people will not stand up when they reach the age of reason?

Newsflash: in general, people don't give a lot of credibility to what 16 year olds think they've figured out about the world. That's why we don't let them vote. And, if you trace it back to colonial times, 16 year olds back then were a lot more mature than 16 year olds today. (They had to be.) Now, 16 year olds are typically still in high school. Even 100 years ago, the majority of 16 year olds already had full time jobs (industry or working on the farm.)
 

child of wonder

Diamond Member
Aug 31, 2006
8,307
176
106
Originally posted by: smitbret
Originally posted by: child of wonder
Originally posted by: zinfamous

newsflash: Mormons are Christians, whether or not you like it.

No, they're not. The LDS church would like people to believe that, but it's not true.

Christianity and LDS share the fact that Jesus Christ is their main target of adoration but that's about it.

To the OP -- my wife was raised Mormon and left the church when she was 19 or so. Maybe she might be kind enough to come on here and post some advice, however she didn't leave the church while living at home nor in Utah.

So if that's not the definition of Christianity, what is?

Being that the Mormon faith teaches that God was once a man like us, Jesus and Lucifer are brothers, we all can become Gods ourselves but must give 10% of our income and wear special underwear to do so, that God regularly changes his mind when faced with political or societal pressures, and that the original "prophet" of the Mormon church was a documented fraud (research the Kinderhook plates) then, no, I don't think LDS can be considered a Christian entity.

Not that I support Christianity either, mind you. :)
 

smitbret

Diamond Member
Jul 27, 2006
3,382
17
81
Originally posted by: thepd7
Originally posted by: smitbret
Originally posted by: child of wonder
Originally posted by: zinfamous

newsflash: Mormons are Christians, whether or not you like it.

No, they're not. The LDS church would like people to believe that, but it's not true.

Christianity and LDS share the fact that Jesus Christ is their main target of adoration but that's about it.

To the OP -- my wife was raised Mormon and left the church when she was 19 or so. Maybe she might be kind enough to come on here and post some advice, however she didn't leave the church while living at home nor in Utah.

So if that's not the definition of Christianity, what is?

It depends on who you talk to. I believe (as John 14:6 states) it's only through Jesus, nothing else. The LDS church adds a lot to that.

Exactly, so in deference to any actual, universally accepted definition of Christianity, then the acceptance of Jesus Christ as the savior to the human race must be. Therefore, Mormons, Baptists, Pentecosts, Catholics, 7th Day Adventists, even Jehovah's Witness etc., must all be Christian. Christianity is, at best, a loose term, like being American.
 

MaxDepth

Diamond Member
Jun 12, 2001
8,757
43
91
Tell them not to worry. When you leave the Church, you won't be like that former Mormon girl who was an Arizona State cheerleader and went into porn.
 

DangerAardvark

Diamond Member
Oct 22, 2004
7,559
0
0
Originally posted by: smitbret
Originally posted by: thepd7
Originally posted by: smitbret
Originally posted by: child of wonder
Originally posted by: zinfamous

newsflash: Mormons are Christians, whether or not you like it.

No, they're not. The LDS church would like people to believe that, but it's not true.

Christianity and LDS share the fact that Jesus Christ is their main target of adoration but that's about it.

To the OP -- my wife was raised Mormon and left the church when she was 19 or so. Maybe she might be kind enough to come on here and post some advice, however she didn't leave the church while living at home nor in Utah.

So if that's not the definition of Christianity, what is?

It depends on who you talk to. I believe (as John 14:6 states) it's only through Jesus, nothing else. The LDS church adds a lot to that.

Exactly, so in deference to any actual, universally accepted definition of Christianity, then the acceptance of Jesus Christ as the savior to the human race must be. Therefore, Mormons, Baptists, Pentecosts, Catholics, 7th Day Adventists, even Jehovah's Witness etc., must all be Christian. Christianity is, at best, a loose term, like being American.

Wasn't everyone in the Born Again thread defining Christianity as seeking a personal relationship with Christ or somesuch nonsense? If your definition is that loose, then Mormonism fits. The real reason most orthodox Christians have problems with calling Mormons Christians is that they believe that in the highest level of Heaven you become a God of you own world(s).
 

Psynaut

Senior member
Jan 6, 2008
653
1
0
Originally posted by: smitbret
Originally posted by: Psynaut
Originally posted by: evident
don't mean to thread-jack, but what is it like being brought up in a LDS family?

Same as alot of religions and cults too, for that matter. you are brainwashed from birth with utterly rediculous ideas, and taught to believe that you have the one truth and everyone else is lost. Mormons love to help others, but beneath this generosity is a really arrogant sense of moral superiority. They believe there are 9 levels of heaven and only Mormons go to the highest three levels.

They have beliefs that are bigoted towards blacks and repressive towards women. Women can only get into heaven through their husbands, and black people are the spirits who didn't pick a side during the battle in heaven between Jesus and Satan.

They don't drink coffee or tea because it has caffiene, but eat chocolate and drink soda like it was required to support life. And oh ya, that South park stuff really is how the religion started... Nutty stuff!

LMFAO!!!! I hope you're joking, cuz you're WAY OFF!


Your statement of Truthiness leaves me utterly persuaded. I am not wrong. I grew up in the church, I know what they believe. Read the site that was linked a few pages back. Try backing up your accusation with reason if you want me to respond to you again.
 

m1ldslide1

Platinum Member
Feb 20, 2006
2,321
0
0
Originally posted by: Pale Rider
Some folks already said it but I'll say it to. Keep your mouth shut until you are 18 and can afford to move out and pay your own bills.

I'm only on page 1 of this thread, and others might have pointed it out, but I saw your rig stats and you would definitely be well-served to keep your mouth shut for a couple of years. Its obvious that your folks / mom hook you up with toys and so on, and you would be well-served to not derail the gravy-train just yet.

Then again if you feel THAT strongly about it then you should just out yourself. Don't expect to be taken seriously though - religious types have an explanation ready-made for your situation. Its Satan...
 

m1ldslide1

Platinum Member
Feb 20, 2006
2,321
0
0
Originally posted by: MaxDepth
Tell them not to worry. When you leave the Church, you won't be like that former Mormon girl who was an Arizona State cheerleader and went into porn.

Link?
 

smitbret

Diamond Member
Jul 27, 2006
3,382
17
81
Originally posted by: Psynaut
Originally posted by: smitbret
Originally posted by: Psynaut
Originally posted by: evident
don't mean to thread-jack, but what is it like being brought up in a LDS family?

Same as alot of religions and cults too, for that matter. you are brainwashed from birth with utterly rediculous ideas, and taught to believe that you have the one truth and everyone else is lost. Mormons love to help others, but beneath this generosity is a really arrogant sense of moral superiority. They believe there are 9 levels of heaven and only Mormons go to the highest three levels.

They have beliefs that are bigoted towards blacks and repressive towards women. Women can only get into heaven through their husbands, and black people are the spirits who didn't pick a side during the battle in heaven between Jesus and Satan.

They don't drink coffee or tea because it has caffiene, but eat chocolate and drink soda like it was required to support life. And oh ya, that South park stuff really is how the religion started... Nutty stuff!

LMFAO!!!! I hope you're joking, cuz you're WAY OFF!

Your statement of Truthiness leaves me utterly persuaded. I am not wrong. I grew up in the church, I know what they believe. Read the site that was linked a few pages back. Try backing up your accusation with reason if you want me to respond to you again.

Well, first of all, you're description of the Mormon afterlife is no way correct. The Mormon heaven has only three levels. There are other "kingdoms" below heaven, each with its own many levels. Women don't need a husband to get to the highest kingdom. Black people are the descendents of Ham (Old Testament) who committed an unforgiveable act, was banished and given a mark (darker skin) that would curse his posterity for years to come. They don't drink coffee or tea because they are expressly forbidden in the Doctrine & Covenants, it has NOTHING to do with caffeine. The church frowns on the use of caffienated bevarages because of their addictive nature, but the consumption of cola drinks or chocolate is in no way forbidden or part of church policy.

In my mind, this is the biggest problem with Mormons. Everyone has their own gospel and feels the need to render their own interpretation of it upon everyone else, regardless of fact. Do your homework, dude, or better yet, when your Mom makes you go to church next week, pay a little more attention.

I really thought you were kidding.
 

Psynaut

Senior member
Jan 6, 2008
653
1
0
Originally posted by: smitbret
Originally posted by: Psynaut
Originally posted by: smitbret
Originally posted by: Psynaut
Originally posted by: evident
don't mean to thread-jack, but what is it like being brought up in a LDS family?

Same as alot of religions and cults too, for that matter. you are brainwashed from birth with utterly rediculous ideas, and taught to believe that you have the one truth and everyone else is lost. Mormons love to help others, but beneath this generosity is a really arrogant sense of moral superiority. They believe there are 9 levels of heaven and only Mormons go to the highest three levels.

They have beliefs that are bigoted towards blacks and repressive towards women. Women can only get into heaven through their husbands, and black people are the spirits who didn't pick a side during the battle in heaven between Jesus and Satan.

They don't drink coffee or tea because it has caffiene, but eat chocolate and drink soda like it was required to support life. And oh ya, that South park stuff really is how the religion started... Nutty stuff!

LMFAO!!!! I hope you're joking, cuz you're WAY OFF!

Your statement of Truthiness leaves me utterly persuaded. I am not wrong. I grew up in the church, I know what they believe. Read the site that was linked a few pages back. Try backing up your accusation with reason if you want me to respond to you again.

Well, first of all, you're description of the Mormon afterlife is no way correct. The Mormon heaven has only three levels. There are other "kingdoms" below heaven, each with its own many levels. Women don't need a husband to get to the highest kingdom. Black people are the descendents of Ham (Old Testament) who committed an unforgiveable act, was banished and given a mark (darker skin) that would curse his posterity for years to come. They don't drink coffee or tea because they are expressly forbidden in the Doctrine & Covenants, it has NOTHING to do with caffeine. The church frowns on the use of caffienated bevarages because of their addictive nature, but the consumption of cola drinks or chocolate is in no way forbidden or part of church policy.

In my mind, this is the biggest problem with Mormons. Everyone has their own gospel and feels the need to render their own interpretation of it upon everyone else, regardless of fact. Do your homework, dude, or better yet, when your Mom makes you go to church next week, pay a little more attention.

You need to do your homework. Each level has three levels within it. There is the highest level, called the Celestial level, and then the Terrestrial and Telestial, or something like that. Each level has three levels within it, and only the highest level of the Celestial Kingdom gets have spirit children and become Gods themselves who get to create worlds of their own and, presumedly, populate them with their spirit children.

BYU.edu

THE CELESTIAL GLORY. The Celestial Kingdom is reserved for those who receive a testimony of Jesus and fully embrace the gospel; that is, they have faith in Jesus Christ, repent of their sins, are baptized by immersion by one having authority, receive the Holy Ghost by the laying on of hands, and endure in righteousness. All who attain this kingdom "shall dwell in the presence of God and his Christ forever and ever" (D&C 76:62). There are, however, different privileges and powers within this kingdom. "In the celestial glory there are three heavens or degrees; and in order to obtain the highest, a man must enter into this order of the priesthood (meaning the new and everlasting covenant of marriage); and if he does not, he cannot obtain it. He may enter into the other, but that is the end of his kingdom; he cannot have an increase" (D&C 131:1-4). "Increase" in this instance means the bearing of spirit children after mortal life (see Eternal Lives, Eternal Increase). Joseph Smith explained, "Except a man and his wife enter into an everlasting covenant and be married for eternity?by the power and authority of the Holy Priesthood, they will cease to increase when they die; that is, they will not have any children after the resurrection" (TPJS, pp. 300-301). Latter-day Saints believe that those who attain the highest level in the Celestial Kingdom become gods, receive exaltation, and are joint heirs with Christ of all that the Father has

As it says, you can only get into the top level of the Celestial kingdom (heaven) through the power of the priesthood, and women can't hold the preisthood. You do the math.

You can educate yourself on the rest.


As for the rest of your points, they have all already been clarified by several other posters in this thread in addition to myself.
 

Dankk

Diamond Member
Jul 7, 2008
5,558
25
91
Originally posted by: m1ldslide1
I'm only on page 1 of this thread, and others might have pointed it out, but I saw your rig stats and you would definitely be well-served to keep your mouth shut for a couple of years. Its obvious that your folks / mom hook you up with toys and so on, and you would be well-served to not derail the gravy-train just yet.
Let's not jump to conclusions now, shall we? I paid for that whole setup with my own hard-earned dollars. My mom doesn't have a single thing to do with my PC.
 

Psynaut

Senior member
Jan 6, 2008
653
1
0
Originally posted by: smitbret
Originally posted by: Psynaut
Originally posted by: smitbret
Originally posted by: Psynaut
Originally posted by: evident
don't mean to thread-jack, but what is it like being brought up in a LDS family?

Same as alot of religions and cults too, for that matter. you are brainwashed from birth with utterly rediculous ideas, and taught to believe that you have the one truth and everyone else is lost. Mormons love to help others, but beneath this generosity is a really arrogant sense of moral superiority. They believe there are 9 levels of heaven and only Mormons go to the highest three levels.

They have beliefs that are bigoted towards blacks and repressive towards women. Women can only get into heaven through their husbands, and black people are the spirits who didn't pick a side during the battle in heaven between Jesus and Satan.

They don't drink coffee or tea because it has caffiene, but eat chocolate and drink soda like it was required to support life. And oh ya, that South park stuff really is how the religion started... Nutty stuff!

LMFAO!!!! I hope you're joking, cuz you're WAY OFF!

Your statement of Truthiness leaves me utterly persuaded. I am not wrong. I grew up in the church, I know what they believe. Read the site that was linked a few pages back. Try backing up your accusation with reason if you want me to respond to you again.

Well, first of all, you're description of the Mormon afterlife is no way correct. The Mormon heaven has only three levels. There are other "kingdoms" below heaven, each with its own many levels. Women don't need a husband to get to the highest kingdom. Black people are the descendents of Ham (Old Testament) who committed an unforgiveable act, was banished and given a mark (darker skin) that would curse his posterity for years to come. They don't drink coffee or tea because they are expressly forbidden in the Doctrine & Covenants, it has NOTHING to do with caffeine. The church frowns on the use of caffienated bevarages because of their addictive nature, but the consumption of cola drinks or chocolate is in no way forbidden or part of church policy.

In my mind, this is the biggest problem with Mormons. Everyone has their own gospel and feels the need to render their own interpretation of it upon everyone else, regardless of fact. Do your homework, dude, or better yet, when your Mom makes you go to church next week, pay a little more attention.

I really thought you were kidding.


Ok, I can't resist this one either:


BYU.edu

The prohibition movement, spearheaded by the Protestant Evangelical churches in America, focused on alcohol consumption as a political rather than a moral issue. The movement intensified the Church's interest in the Word of Wisdom. There is evidence that Church Presidents John Taylor, Joseph F. Smith, and Heber J. Grant wanted to promote adherence to the Word of Wisdom as a precondition for entering LDS temples or holding office in any Church organization; and indeed, by 1930 abstinence from the use of alcohol, tobacco, coffee, and tea had become an official requirement for those seeking temple recommends. While abstinence from these substances is now required for temple attendance and for holding priesthood offices or other Church callings, no other ecclesiastical sanctions are imposed on those who do not comply with the Word of Wisdom.

Other dietary aspects of the Word of Wisdom have not received the stress that the abstinence portions have. While some leaders, such as John A. Widtsoe, have emphasized the benefits of eating whole grains, no distinctive dietary practices have emerged that distinguish Mormons from non-Mormons, though the use of whole-grain cereals is often assumed to be higher among Latter-day Saints than other people.

With the appearance of cola drinks in the early 1900s, the Church was confronted with cold beverages containing caffeine, a harmful substance believed to make coffee and tea unacceptable. While no official Church position has been stated, leaders have counseled members to avoid caffeine and other addictive chemicals.

Church leaders universally caution against any use of such drugs as marijuana and cocaine and the abuse of prescription drugs. While none of these substances are mentioned specifically in the Word of Wisdom, the concept of the sanctity of the body and the deleterious effects of chemical substances on it have been emphasized as an extension of the Word of Wisdom.

You stated my point exactly, when I said that coffee and tea were prohibited because of the caffiene, but chocolate and soda were used constantly, it was the fact that this makes no sense that is exaclty what I was pointing out.
 
S

SlitheryDee

Originally posted by: Psynaut

THE CELESTIAL GLORY. The Celestial Kingdom is reserved for those who receive a testimony of Jesus and fully embrace the gospel; that is, they have faith in Jesus Christ, repent of their sins, are baptized by immersion by one having authority, receive the Holy Ghost by the laying on of hands, and endure in righteousness. All who attain this kingdom "shall dwell in the presence of God and his Christ forever and ever" (D&C 76:62). There are, however, different privileges and powers within this kingdom. "In the celestial glory there are three heavens or degrees; and in order to obtain the highest, a man must enter into this order of the priesthood (meaning the new and everlasting covenant of marriage); and if he does not, he cannot obtain it. He may enter into the other, but that is the end of his kingdom; he cannot have an increase" (D&C 131:1-4). "Increase" in this instance means the bearing of spirit children after mortal life (see Eternal Lives, Eternal Increase). Joseph Smith explained, "Except a man and his wife enter into an everlasting covenant and be married for eternity?by the power and authority of the Holy Priesthood, they will cease to increase when they die; that is, they will not have any children after the resurrection" (TPJS, pp. 300-301). Latter-day Saints believe that those who attain the highest level in the Celestial Kingdom become gods, receive exaltation, and are joint heirs with Christ of all that the Father has

That is the most ludicrous, dungeons & dragony snippet of drivel I've ever read. All those people who actually believe this is true; please, step back a moment and just read it.
 

Throwmeabone

Senior member
Jan 9, 2006
933
0
0
I didn't read this thread so I don't know if it's already been suggested, but you should post your home phone number and have ATOT call your parents!
 

smitbret

Diamond Member
Jul 27, 2006
3,382
17
81
Originally posted by: Psynaut
Originally posted by: smitbret
Originally posted by: Psynaut
Originally posted by: smitbret
Originally posted by: Psynaut
Originally posted by: evident
don't mean to thread-jack, but what is it like being brought up in a LDS family?

Same as alot of religions and cults too, for that matter. you are brainwashed from birth with utterly rediculous ideas, and taught to believe that you have the one truth and everyone else is lost. Mormons love to help others, but beneath this generosity is a really arrogant sense of moral superiority. They believe there are 9 levels of heaven and only Mormons go to the highest three levels.

They have beliefs that are bigoted towards blacks and repressive towards women. Women can only get into heaven through their husbands, and black people are the spirits who didn't pick a side during the battle in heaven between Jesus and Satan.

They don't drink coffee or tea because it has caffiene, but eat chocolate and drink soda like it was required to support life. And oh ya, that South park stuff really is how the religion started... Nutty stuff!

LMFAO!!!! I hope you're joking, cuz you're WAY OFF!

Your statement of Truthiness leaves me utterly persuaded. I am not wrong. I grew up in the church, I know what they believe. Read the site that was linked a few pages back. Try backing up your accusation with reason if you want me to respond to you again.

Well, first of all, you're description of the Mormon afterlife is no way correct. The Mormon heaven has only three levels. There are other "kingdoms" below heaven, each with its own many levels. Women don't need a husband to get to the highest kingdom. Black people are the descendents of Ham (Old Testament) who committed an unforgiveable act, was banished and given a mark (darker skin) that would curse his posterity for years to come. They don't drink coffee or tea because they are expressly forbidden in the Doctrine & Covenants, it has NOTHING to do with caffeine. The church frowns on the use of caffienated bevarages because of their addictive nature, but the consumption of cola drinks or chocolate is in no way forbidden or part of church policy.

In my mind, this is the biggest problem with Mormons. Everyone has their own gospel and feels the need to render their own interpretation of it upon everyone else, regardless of fact. Do your homework, dude, or better yet, when your Mom makes you go to church next week, pay a little more attention.

You need to do your homework. Each level has three levels within it. There is the highest level, called the Celestial level, and then the Terrestrial and Telestial, or something like that. Each level has three levels within it, and only the highest level of the Celestial Kingdom gets have spirit children and become Gods themselves who get to create worlds of their own and, presumedly, populate them with their spirit children.

BYU.edu

THE CELESTIAL GLORY. The Celestial Kingdom is reserved for those who receive a testimony of Jesus and fully embrace the gospel; that is, they have faith in Jesus Christ, repent of their sins, are baptized by immersion by one having authority, receive the Holy Ghost by the laying on of hands, and endure in righteousness. All who attain this kingdom "shall dwell in the presence of God and his Christ forever and ever" (D&C 76:62). There are, however, different privileges and powers within this kingdom. "In the celestial glory there are three heavens or degrees; and in order to obtain the highest, a man must enter into this order of the priesthood (meaning the new and everlasting covenant of marriage); and if he does not, he cannot obtain it. He may enter into the other, but that is the end of his kingdom; he cannot have an increase" (D&C 131:1-4). "Increase" in this instance means the bearing of spirit children after mortal life (see Eternal Lives, Eternal Increase). Joseph Smith explained, "Except a man and his wife enter into an everlasting covenant and be married for eternity?by the power and authority of the Holy Priesthood, they will cease to increase when they die; that is, they will not have any children after the resurrection" (TPJS, pp. 300-301). Latter-day Saints believe that those who attain the highest level in the Celestial Kingdom become gods, receive exaltation, and are joint heirs with Christ of all that the Father has

As it says, you can only get into the top level of the Celestial kingdom (heaven) through the power of the priesthood, and women can't hold the preisthood. You do the math.

You can educate yourself on the rest.


As for the rest of your points, they have all already been clarified by several other posters in this thread in addition to myself.

Read it again...... Even the man has to be married to make it to the top level. You really were Mormon, cuz you stopped reading after you found ANYTHING to support your own opinion. LOL.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
111,125
30,076
146
Originally posted by: smitbret
Originally posted by: thepd7
Originally posted by: smitbret
Originally posted by: child of wonder
Originally posted by: zinfamous

newsflash: Mormons are Christians, whether or not you like it.

No, they're not. The LDS church would like people to believe that, but it's not true.

Christianity and LDS share the fact that Jesus Christ is their main target of adoration but that's about it.

To the OP -- my wife was raised Mormon and left the church when she was 19 or so. Maybe she might be kind enough to come on here and post some advice, however she didn't leave the church while living at home nor in Utah.

So if that's not the definition of Christianity, what is?

It depends on who you talk to. I believe (as John 14:6 states) it's only through Jesus, nothing else. The LDS church adds a lot to that.

Exactly, so in deference to any actual, universally accepted definition of Christianity, then the acceptance of Jesus Christ as the savior to the human race must be. Therefore, Mormons, Baptists, Pentecosts, Catholics, 7th Day Adventists, even Jehovah's Witness etc., must all be Christian. Christianity is, at best, a loose term, like being American.

The way I see it: Mormonism deviates as much from Catholicism as does Protestantism. How long did it take the Holy Roman Church to recognize the protestant schism as a legitimate Christian sect?

yeah...trick question. They still don't consider any protestant sect truly Christian; nor do protestants consider Catholics Christian.Each sect considers themselves the one true Christian belief system, and that's pretty much how it remains.

here's an interesting (and very short) tidbit from CARM explaining why mormons aren't Christian http://www.carm.org/lds/lds_christian.htm (I've found an equal number of articles defending the idea of Mormon Christianity)

This is an interesting argument:
Mormonism teaches that God the Father has a body of flesh and bones (D. & C. 130:22) and that Jesus is a creation. It teaches that he was begotten in heaven as one of God?s spirit children (See the Book, Jesus the Christ, by James Talmage, p. 8). This is in strict contrast to the biblical teaching that he is God in flesh (John 1:1, 14), eternal (John 1:1, 2, 15), uncreated, yet born on earth (Col. 1:15), and the creator all (John 1:3; Col. 1;16-17). Jesus cannot be both created and not created at the same time.

so, in his very same argument, he questions how one sect can believe that Jesus be both uncreated and created at the same time. Yet, in his explication of the Biblical teachings of Jesus, he defends the notion that Jesus is both God in flesh, uncreated and born on earth, and creator [of] all. That last art gets me. So, using his same logical attack at mormon ideas, how can this guy defend something that is born on earth, uncreated, yet created everything...including himself? The New Testament pre-conceives the Hebrew god of Abraham as Jesus. The holy trinity. 1 as 3?

I would argue that as all self-described Christian sects base their belief structures on fundamentally illogical stretches of whimsy, that their similarities are indeed quite broad. They are so illogical in their own ways that it is difficult to see them as separate ;)
 

child of wonder

Diamond Member
Aug 31, 2006
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Originally posted by: smitbret
Originally posted by: Psynaut
Originally posted by: smitbret
Originally posted by: Psynaut
Originally posted by: smitbret
Originally posted by: Psynaut
Originally posted by: evident
don't mean to thread-jack, but what is it like being brought up in a LDS family?

Same as alot of religions and cults too, for that matter. you are brainwashed from birth with utterly rediculous ideas, and taught to believe that you have the one truth and everyone else is lost. Mormons love to help others, but beneath this generosity is a really arrogant sense of moral superiority. They believe there are 9 levels of heaven and only Mormons go to the highest three levels.

They have beliefs that are bigoted towards blacks and repressive towards women. Women can only get into heaven through their husbands, and black people are the spirits who didn't pick a side during the battle in heaven between Jesus and Satan.

They don't drink coffee or tea because it has caffiene, but eat chocolate and drink soda like it was required to support life. And oh ya, that South park stuff really is how the religion started... Nutty stuff!

LMFAO!!!! I hope you're joking, cuz you're WAY OFF!

Your statement of Truthiness leaves me utterly persuaded. I am not wrong. I grew up in the church, I know what they believe. Read the site that was linked a few pages back. Try backing up your accusation with reason if you want me to respond to you again.

Well, first of all, you're description of the Mormon afterlife is no way correct. The Mormon heaven has only three levels. There are other "kingdoms" below heaven, each with its own many levels. Women don't need a husband to get to the highest kingdom. Black people are the descendents of Ham (Old Testament) who committed an unforgiveable act, was banished and given a mark (darker skin) that would curse his posterity for years to come. They don't drink coffee or tea because they are expressly forbidden in the Doctrine & Covenants, it has NOTHING to do with caffeine. The church frowns on the use of caffienated bevarages because of their addictive nature, but the consumption of cola drinks or chocolate is in no way forbidden or part of church policy.

In my mind, this is the biggest problem with Mormons. Everyone has their own gospel and feels the need to render their own interpretation of it upon everyone else, regardless of fact. Do your homework, dude, or better yet, when your Mom makes you go to church next week, pay a little more attention.

You need to do your homework. Each level has three levels within it. There is the highest level, called the Celestial level, and then the Terrestrial and Telestial, or something like that. Each level has three levels within it, and only the highest level of the Celestial Kingdom gets have spirit children and become Gods themselves who get to create worlds of their own and, presumedly, populate them with their spirit children.

BYU.edu

THE CELESTIAL GLORY. The Celestial Kingdom is reserved for those who receive a testimony of Jesus and fully embrace the gospel; that is, they have faith in Jesus Christ, repent of their sins, are baptized by immersion by one having authority, receive the Holy Ghost by the laying on of hands, and endure in righteousness. All who attain this kingdom "shall dwell in the presence of God and his Christ forever and ever" (D&C 76:62). There are, however, different privileges and powers within this kingdom. "In the celestial glory there are three heavens or degrees; and in order to obtain the highest, a man must enter into this order of the priesthood (meaning the new and everlasting covenant of marriage); and if he does not, he cannot obtain it. He may enter into the other, but that is the end of his kingdom; he cannot have an increase" (D&C 131:1-4). "Increase" in this instance means the bearing of spirit children after mortal life (see Eternal Lives, Eternal Increase). Joseph Smith explained, "Except a man and his wife enter into an everlasting covenant and be married for eternity?by the power and authority of the Holy Priesthood, they will cease to increase when they die; that is, they will not have any children after the resurrection" (TPJS, pp. 300-301). Latter-day Saints believe that those who attain the highest level in the Celestial Kingdom become gods, receive exaltation, and are joint heirs with Christ of all that the Father has

As it says, you can only get into the top level of the Celestial kingdom (heaven) through the power of the priesthood, and women can't hold the preisthood. You do the math.

You can educate yourself on the rest.


As for the rest of your points, they have all already been clarified by several other posters in this thread in addition to myself.

Read it again...... Even the man has to be married to make it to the top level. You really were Mormon, cuz you stopped reading after you found ANYTHING to support your own opinion. LOL.

Correct.

And since the married man and woman receive their secret names during the Endowment Ceremony, the woman is required to reveal her secret name to the man during their Temple marriage so that the man can call the woman from the Veil after death so they can be re-united in the Celestial Kingdom. However, the woman is not allowed to know the man's secret name because only the Heavenly Father can call the man from the Veil after death.

Thus, the woman cannot attain the highest level of the Mormon heaven unless her husband gives the OK.
 

Buck Armstrong

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Dec 17, 2004
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Originally posted by: zinfamous
so, in his very same argument, he questions how one sect can believe that Jesus be both uncreated and created at the same time. Yet, in his explication of the Biblical teachings of Jesus, he defends the notion that Jesus is both God in flesh, uncreated and born on earth, and creator [of] all. That last art gets me. So, using his same logical attack at mormon ideas, how can this guy defend something that is born on earth, uncreated, yet created everything...including himself? The New Testament pre-conceives the Hebrew god of Abraham as Jesus. The holy trinity. 1 as 3?

I would argue that as all self-described Christian sects base their belief structures on fundamentally illogical stretches of whimsy, that their similarities are indeed quite broad. They are so illogical in their own ways that it is difficult to see them as separate ;)

To say nothing of the fact that the only descriptions of the Father I know of in the Bible suggest that he is NOT flesh and bone, but energy, power, light, fire, etc., with lightning/electricity crackling and thundering around or from him. IIRC, it is also implied that if you were to look on him, you would be consumed. I'm too lazy right now to dig out my Bible, but I think that's relatively accurate...if not, please correct me.

IMO, the whole blazing ball of energy vs. an old Zeus-like Jew with a beard seems to me to fit a more "scientific" or "modern" view of a great cosmic entity, and the Biblical description of heaven describes a place that is by definition "extraterrestrial", ie, in outer space, rather than some floating Asgard in our atmosphere. One more reason why I wish Christians would start trying to reconcile their beliefs with science rather than using ancient fairytales as the only yardstick. If you really believe the Bible, then you should also understand that it was written by ancient Jews in robes and sandals trying to describe things they had no frame of reference for, like the flying wheel thing in Ezekiel, ringed with blinking eyes which could easily mean flashing lights...but how is a guy who's never seen a light bulb going to write that down?